What if Hallowed Ground and Renewal were like this?

[jinxeverything]

I have been playing Path of Exile quite a lot lately and I've seen abilities done in a very cool ways especially the team support types and it gave me ideas on how to deal with HG and Renewal since i like Oberon a lot and personally I prefer non-specialized characters/ frames, you know, hybrids the most, I find them a lot of fun to play with, ironically enough my ideas may be the opposite of that.

I don't want Oberon to compete against Trinity but I want him to be himself doing his own thing, supporting the team in his own unique way!

*Both of them are idea A!!!

• Anyway here's my idea for HG:

HG have infinite range for team players and any ally (NPC) within 10 meters from Oberon will benefit from HG, instead of magical carpet on the floor it will release orbs similar to Renewal that will follow and attach itself to you (players/ teammates).

It grants you 25% increase in armor, 20% increase in shields and 40% increase in health.

It grants you aura effect that protects you from all status effects/ debuffs.

It damage enemies that enter its radius.

Duration mods increase the ability duration.

Range mods increase its range.

Strength mods increase the damage dealt by the aura to enemies.

Strength mods increase the increases in armor, shields and health.

Basically all DE have to do here is fiddle with this ability here and there, add this to it and maybe that and they are done.

• For Renewal :

This ability is like the new Desecrate, it only activate when the condition is met, when you or teammates lose health.

When the ability is casted, it attach to its targets and stay on them until the ability is decasted by player or there is no energy to activate the regen effect.

NPC and other type of allies that are within 10 meters of Oberon will gets heath regen as well.

It will no longer heal you at all but instead will grant health regeneration that only kicks in when you lose 25%/ 50%/75% of your health.

When you loss 100% health and enter bleedout, it will auto slow it, extra duration increase its duration, negative decrease its duration.

Duration mods speed and extend the health regeneration effect just like how positive duration increase health gained over time currently.

For example, at 100% duration the regen effect only stays for 10 seconds, with extra duration the number will go up to 15, the amount of health regened is increased.

Basically, more duration = more health regened, more duration = faster.

Should Strength mods affect this ability? I don't want Strength mods to dictate it. so its yes and no from me.  

This ability does not have static numbers, the health regeneration is percent (%) based.

**Idea B :

Using Renewal on HG will transfer the HG effect to teammate!

DE, these 2 abilities are underdeveloped and its time to give them the touch up they need, they don't need to be overhauled just need to be fiddled here and there, that's all!

Yes i my ideas do sound like its copied but after playing PoE I got them in my head, sorry if I "stolen" yours :(

Edited September 15, 2016 by Prinny13

[NinjaZeku]

TBH, I don't like them being %-based.

Hallowed Ground should IMO give a flat Armor (and maybe more) increase, scaling with Strength, or straight-up damage reduction
(the latter also being a nice choice for your ally-in-range proposition, to help in protecting Defense etc targets),
either way, it should be actually useful for protecting squishy Frames (and it's not like Broberon is massively tanky himself).

A % heal from Renewal would be silly for Inaros while being (again) worse for the squishier Frames / anyone not using Vitality,
having a set amount of Health restored per second just seems more generally useful / easier to me.

Infinite range for the Squad protection part of HG, sure, that'd be neat :D

Renewal I really really want to already lose the Duration part though
and either be turned into a true permanent-drain ability
or, like you brought up, take a page out of Desecrate's book
and stay toggled on throughout the mission, but only activate & cost Energy when needed.
[This would not least make a huge difference for the Phoenix Augment, which, at the moment, is pretty meh.]

And for those worrying it'd be too OP / close to immortality / make Trinity superfluous, nah,
just keep the regen low / cost high enough (without going too far either way kthx)
and you'll "just" have a super-charged Rejuvenation (that Oberon can't easily keep up forever).

[Matt89Connor]

HG need a really help because oberon is an average warframe so he need's all 4 abilities to be good ( not OP), i like HG idea ;)

[jinxeverything]

6 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

TBH, I don't like them being %-based.

Hallowed Ground should IMO give a flat Armor (and maybe more) increase, scaling with Strength, or straight-up damage reduction
(the latter also being a nice choice for your ally-in-range proposition, to help in protecting Defense etc targets),
either way, it should be actually useful for protecting squishy Frames (and it's not like Broberon is massively tanky himself).

A % heal from Renewal would be silly for Inaros while being (again) worse for the squishier Frames / anyone not using Vitality,
having a set amount of Health restored per second just seems more generally useful / easier to me.

Infinite range for the Squad protection part of HG, sure, that'd be neat :D

Renewal I really really want to already lose the Duration part though
and either be turned into a true permanent-drain ability
or, like you brought up, take a page out of Desecrate's book
and stay toggled on throughout the mission, but only activate & cost Energy when needed.
[This would not least make a huge difference for the Phoenix Augment, which, at the moment, is pretty meh.]

And for those worrying it'd be too OP / close to immortality / make Trinity superfluous, nah,
just keep the regen low / cost high enough (without going too far either way kthx)
and you'll "just" have a super-charged Rejuvenation (that Oberon can't easily keep up forever).

The reason i went with percent based is because we can manipulate health, armor and shields at will and percent scales unlike static numbers which is quite good at base values but lackluster at modified values, and we may get another frame with over 1k health down the line, might as well make the ability capable of handling large health pools!

DE on a 'balance' train lately and that means anything over delivering will be toned down, if HG became the new 99% Blessing it will be nerfed, so why go through that if we make it OK from the very beginning!

I don't want Renewal to be a healing ability but a regeneration, so it needs duration since regeneration happens over time not instant!  

5 hours ago, Matt89Connor said:

HG need a really help because oberon is an average warframe so he need's all 4 abilities to be good ( not OP), i like HG idea ;)

Smite is good as is but if DE buff its damage and maybe its radius then why not :)

As for Reckoning, it would be great if it was Exalted but i see lots of Tenno who are against this idea so we can go with animal summoning but seeing how DE handles the AI anything, I'm skeptical on that as well.

 

[NinjaZeku]

17 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

I don't want Renewal to be a healing ability but a regeneration, so it needs duration since regeneration happens over time not instant!

Well sure, you could make Duration affect the healing speed,
but you could also (make modding Oberon less of a nightmare and) just have the per-second heal amount run off Strength :P

Really, either way is fine by me as long as the ability doesn't de-activate on its own by having its Duration run out,
it's so incredibly silly that you can e.g. increase someone's Bleedout to, dunno, 40+ seconds
but have that increase go away after 15, leaving you with just 5 seconds, the same as if you hadn't used Renewal at all. *head asplode*

11 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

As for Reckoning, it would be great if it was Exalted but i see lots of Tenno who are against this idea so we can go with animal summoning

Wait, what's wrong with the current AoE damage + CC combo?

I mean, it could stand to receive a buff in damage and / or range,
and not least to have enemies be "marked" by Reckoning to drop Health Orb on death no matter what kiled them,
but its current multi-purpose nature seems fine / is plenty useful to me.

[BeardyKyle]

Great ideas for both except you overlook one thing, which is what a lot of rework ideas overlook - and that is the way it would affect pvp. Hallowed Ground as it is, is Oberon's best pvp ability because of its stationary cast - the buff in conclave is 1000% armor and it does 100 Rad damage. I like you ideas but I wouldn't want them the change the effectiveness of HG in conclave.

To fix this I'd suggest HG casts like normal with a slight tweak on your effects:

It grants you 25% increase in armor, 20% increase in Damage and 40% increase in health.

It grants you aura effect that protects you from all status effects/ debuffs.

It damage enemies that enter

 

And now add a combo mechanic with Renewal where casting renewal on HG will transfer the buffs via the Renewal Orbs to teammates giving them the HG aura you suggest in addition to Renewal buffs.

 

 

 

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

I prefer Hallowed Ground to be stationary. Though it's not worth building for, it becomes highly useful when invested in strength and duration for other abilities. It works better for teammates than for Oberon, so I like leaving them with it. Renewal is very well balanced, I think. With the right build, it's basically Blessing with half of the energy cost, and no damage resistance. It has infinite range, so teammates that wander off can still be helped. Seeing as any decent teammate should be able to survive for 20 seconds, the orb travel time should never be an issue. If it is, they need to not wander off or get good. I do think Hallowed Ground needs a byff, but besides that, Oberon is amazing.

(I've been testing builds for him for weeks. A lot I thought was true about about him, I ended up proving myself wrong about.)

[jinxeverything]

2 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

Well sure, you could make Duration affect the healing speed,
but you could also (make modding Oberon less of a nightmare and) just have the per-second heal amount run off Strength :P

Really, either way is fine by me as long as the ability doesn't de-activate on its own by having its Duration run out,
it's so incredibly silly that you can e.g. increase someone's Bleedout to, dunno, 40+ seconds
but have that increase go away after 15, leaving you with just 5 seconds, the same as if you hadn't used Renewal at all. *head asplode*

Wait, what's wrong with the current AoE damage + CC combo?

I mean, it could stand to receive a buff in damage and / or range,
and not least to have enemies be "marked" by Reckoning to drop Health Orb on death no matter what kiled them,
but its current multi-purpose nature seems fine / is plenty useful to me.

How about, the closer the targets health to 100% the slower the health regen but the the closer the health to 0% the faster the health regen?

Duration and Strength should speed this up.

As for his Reckoning, it does not scale well also at times it under delivers, it needs a touch up :/

1 hour ago, BeardyKyle said:

Great ideas for both except you overlook one thing, which is what a lot of rework ideas overlook - and that is the way it would affect pvp. Hallowed Ground as it is, is Oberon's best pvp ability because of its stationary cast - the buff in conclave is 1000% armor and it does 100 Rad damage. I like you ideas but I wouldn't want them the change the effectiveness of HG in conclave.

To fix this I'd suggest HG casts like normal with a slight tweak on your effects:

It grants you 25% increase in armor, 20% increase in Damage and 40% increase in health.

It grants you aura effect that protects you from all status effects/ debuffs.

It damage enemies that enter

 

And now add a combo mechanic with Renewal where casting renewal on HG will transfer the buffs via the Renewal Orbs to teammates giving them the HG aura you suggest in addition to Renewal buffs.

Not a Conclave dood myself so i have no idea what it can do there :/

And standing on HG to transfer its effect never occurred to me O.o

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

I prefer Hallowed Ground to be stationary. Though it's not worth building for, it becomes highly useful when invested in strength and duration for other abilities. It works better for teammates than for Oberon, so I like leaving them with it. Renewal is very well balanced, I think. With the right build, it's basically Blessing with half of the energy cost, and no damage resistance. It has infinite range, so teammates that wander off can still be helped. Seeing as any decent teammate should be able to survive for 20 seconds, the orb travel time should never be an issue. If it is, they need to not wander off or get good. I do think Hallowed Ground needs a byff, but besides that, Oberon is amazing.

(I've been testing builds for him for weeks. A lot I thought was true about about him, I ended up proving myself wrong about.)

Oberon can deliver up to level 30-40 but after that he struggles or even fails, i want to change that, that's all.

[NinjaZeku]

1 minute ago, Prinny13 said:

How about, the closer the targets health to 100% the slower the health regen but the the closer the health to 0% the faster the health regen?

Dunno, that seems needlessly complicated, why not a steady regen?
Not least so that the Energy drain stops a la Desecrate when everyone's full, heh.

[jinxeverything]

4 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Dunno, that seems needlessly complicated, why not a steady regen?
Not least so that the Energy drain stops a la Desecrate when everyone's full, heh.

I noticed Mr. Scott loves to over complicated things, just making his job easier :P

Totally.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

1 hour ago, Prinny13 said:

Oberon can deliver up to level 30-40 but after that he struggles or even fails, i want to change that, that's all.

My clips show level 100+ enemies. (I'll probably just post 3 of them instead of one.) I've been trying to find a perfect loadout for him (by my definition), so I've been testing to no end.

[jinxeverything]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

My clips show level 100+ enemies. (I'll probably just post 3 of them instead of one.) I've been trying to find a perfect loadout for him (by my definition), so I've been testing to no end.

Oberon is a great Radiation machine and as offence frame but he is lackluster as a support frame and that's why I'm talking about his support side in this thread, not his offence!

 

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, Prinny13 said:

Oberon can deliver up to level 30-40 but after that he struggles or even fails, i want to change that, that's all.

Blatantly untrue.

If you're talking straight damage, sure, but no frame can really deliver up to that point without their ability having massive scaling (such as Frost being able to deal 50% health in finisher damage, or Equinox's Maim, or Bladestorm Ash but he's broken).

Hallowed Reckoning, smart use of Smite (priority targets), and Hallowed Ground to prevent knockdowns/toxin procs. Renewal to keep health topped off as much as possible. Attack enemies while they're getting up/confused due to radiation with your weapons. Boom. Oberon, "delivers."

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

32 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

Oberon is a great Radiation machine and as offence frame but he is lackluster as a support frame and that's why I'm talking about his support side in this thread, not his offence!

 

OK, I need to record something for that. I only try to do endgame with friends or by myself. I can't always deal with the may most public players act. Hopefully one of my few friends are online.

[jinxeverything]

15 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Blatantly untrue.

If you're talking straight damage, sure, but no frame can really deliver up to that point without their ability having massive scaling (such as Frost being able to deal 50% health in finisher damage, or Equinox's Maim, or Bladestorm Ash but he's broken).

Hallowed Reckoning, smart use of Smite (priority targets), and Hallowed Ground to prevent knockdowns/toxin procs. Renewal to keep health topped off as much as possible. Attack enemies while they're getting up/confused due to radiation with your weapons. Boom. Oberon, "delivers."

Ugh, support wise not offence wise :/

His Renewal and HG can't keep up with incoming damage after level 30-40 mark unless you cram all the Strength mods in :/

Again this thread is not about Oberon himself but about his HG and Renewal!!!!! 

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

4 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

Ugh, support wise not offence wise :/

His Renewal and HG can't keep up with incoming damage after level 30-40 mark unless you cram all the Strength mods in :/

Again this thread is not about Oberon himself but about his HG and Renewal!!!!! 

I think Hallowed Ground does need a buff for team support and personal use. It's not terrible though. I'll work on something for Renewal.