DAKRA PRIME REWORK

[Katinka]

On 17/09/2016 at 10:45 PM, Rapiddragon said:

If we compare the dps of the both sword you will see that broken war's dps is way better than the dakra p. A free mr3 S#&$ beating beautiful mr6 weapon which you need to farm for it, this is wrong.

Time to kill is more important that DPS.  Dakra Prime was good enough to be considered one of the best melee weapons going (as long as you have Crimson Dervish) before Broken War existed and it still does the exact same thing. It is still a good weapon even if there is another weapon that does 50% more damage per hit because you don't actually need that much damage most of the time.

When it comes to what you need to do to get the weapon and what bearing that has on how powerful they should be, why should a weapon you can trade for be better than one tied to the story that you actually need to complete your personal quest line for?

[(PSN)Crixus044]

35 minutes ago, Katinka said:

Time to kill is more important that DPS.  Dakra Prime was good enough to be considered one of the best melee weapons going (as long as you have Crimson Dervish) before Broken War existed and it still does the exact same thing. It is still a good weapon even if there is another weapon that does 50% more damage per hit because you don't actually need that much damage most of the time.

When it comes to what you need to do to get the weapon and what bearing that has on how powerful they should be, why should a weapon you can trade for be better than one tied to the story that you actually need to complete your personal quest line for?

Time to kill is more important for slower harder hitting weapons, but eventually even they don't take enemies out in one or two hits and dps/status will become the dominant feature. As of now though, there's no reason to fight enemies that hard so I guess DPS has taken a backseat in terms of importance. Swords I don't think hit hard enough to be considered one hit kills when fighting enemies at our caliber so DPS can be a viable way to categorize them. Even if, Broken War is would have a better Time to Kill because it has higher damage. The trade system is kinda like the P2W system of Warframe, but for those who didn't pay (me), we grinded hard for the prime weapon that now has been vaulted with prices skyrocketing. Even if, trade system should not be the basis for a weapon's stats, because it is a separate entity. Hell the price for a soma prime is less than a soma and at one point was even easier to get. A quest is quite easy to do and getting to the quest is also easy. Also, the fact that the Broken War is used only 12% of the time for most players while War, Fragor Prime, Nikana Prime, and Galatine take the top of the list shows that it still isn't at the level it should be. Most of the users are beginners who've just gotten it and is probably their best weapon to use at the time, because despite how it can be good with Crimson Dervish, that stance is also quite hard to get. Making the Dakra Prime crit based without having the increase anything else would make it more appealing for vets to use it because it'll be about equal to broken war in terms of overall power, but with the right mods, it can become the dominant sword.

[Katinka]

I still don't see why Dakra Prime needs to be equal or dominant though.  It does a good job so use it if you like it.  What you are saying about Crimson Dervish being rare only matters when comparing to other weapon types and not to a comparison between Dakra Prime and Broken War as they both get the same benefits from it.  With Crimson Dervish Dakra Prime was considered a very good weapon compared to all other weapons at the time and it's ability to kill enemies hasn't changed.  It still does that.  Broken War now does it better (as do War, Fragor Prime and Nikana Prime which are all also more recent additions) but that doesn't change the fact that Dakra Prime still does what it did when it was considered good.

Where did you get the 12% usage stat from?

[(PSN)Crixus044]

9 minutes ago, Katinka said:

I still don't see why Dakra Prime needs to be equal or dominant though.  It does a good job so use it if you like it.  What you are saying about Crimson Dervish being rare only matters when comparing to other weapon types and not to a comparison between Dakra Prime and Broken War as they both get the same benefits from it.  With Crimson Dervish Dakra Prime was considered a very good weapon compared to all other weapons at the time and it's ability to kill enemies hasn't changed.  It still does that.  Broken War now does it better (as do War, Fragor Prime and Nikana Prime which are all also more recent additions) but that doesn't change the fact that Dakra Prime still does what it did when it was considered good.

Where did you get the 12% usage stat from?

It was a reddit poll that was taken about 6 months ago. It's accuracy was questioned, but considering over 20 thousand people voted, it probably pretty accurate. It should be quite easy to find, if if you can't ind it, I'll look through my history to see if I can find it again.

It is good, that's no lie, but then again, there are better weapons out that beat the Dakra Prime (Dragon Nikana was considered on par if not better and Nikana Prime blows it out of the water). Not even the Broken War can keep up, so really if you're gonna use a sword, you'll need to use to best one out there to keep up with the other weapons. Tempo Royale makes heavy weapons as fast as Crimson Dervish, maybe even faster This narrows down your options to three weapons, Prisma Skana, Dakra Prime and Broken War. If you want versatility and quality of life Prisma Skana with Purity mod is the way to go. If you want damage, broken War is the way to go. If you want fashion frame that'll MANAGE, then go with Dakra Prime (unless your into lightsabers, then Broken war). Is this really the place of a prime weapon? In a fashion choice?

Swords are not the best melee weapon b a long shot. They're good, but with blood rush and body count builds weapons like the Mios, Destreza, Nikana Prime, Dual Ichors, Dual Kamas Prime, outclass the Broken War by a long shot even with Crimson Dervish, and that's not including the heavy melee weapons. Orthos Prime with maiming strike build has been a new king of the crib because it one shots most level 40 enemies in a 10m radius. This is an opportunity to make the Dakra Prime be a competitor again by simply increasing the crit chance so that blood rush builds can make it a strong contender for endgame melee, while in normal builds, it can balance out the Broken War by being an equal competitor.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

It should get a little buff. I mean, broken war even comes with a built in catalyst so it's just weird for that prime not to at least offer something different.

Edited September 19, 2016 by (PS4)AllOrNothinDays

[Katinka]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Tempo Royale makes heavy weapons as fast as Crimson Dervish, maybe even faster

That doesn't really surprise me since Crimson Dervish isn't fast (it slows you down) but it's strength is a 3x damage multiplier and a combo that can open the enemy up to a finisher.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

...a competitor again... ...a strong contender for endgame melee... ...an equal competitor...

I still don't see why specifically the Dakra Prime needs to be any of those things.

[(XBOX)ToothlessApollo]

I'd rather them rework the Fang Prime cause it's a sucky channelling weapon. Channelling has no place in this game.

[--DSP--]

Now Scindo Prime and War.

[(PSN)official_79]

1 hour ago, --DSP-- said:

Now Scindo Prime and War.

First off Scindo and War are both farmed weapons, you put around the same work depending on rng to aquire them. 

Second, War is not a complete upgrade due to the fact war does impact, and scindo prime does slash. So one is better for different situations.

Scindo prime and Galatine prime would be a better comparison

[--DSP--]

1 minute ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

First off Scindo and War are both farmed weapons, you put around the same work depending on rng to aquire them. 

Second, War is not a complete upgrade due to the fact war does impact, and scindo prime does slash. So one is better for different situations.

Scindo prime and Galatine prime would be a better comparison

I am talking about Galatine Prime outdid both War and Scindo Prime, Friend.

Edited September 19, 2016 by --DSP--

[Rapiddragon]

20 hours ago, Katinka said:

Time to kill is more important that DPS.  Dakra Prime was good enough to be considered one of the best melee weapons going (as long as you have Crimson Dervish) before Broken War existed and it still does the exact same thing. It is still a good weapon even if there is another weapon that does 50% more damage per hit because you don't actually need that much damage most of the time.

When it comes to what you need to do to get the weapon and what bearing that has on how powerful they should be, why should a weapon you can trade for be better than one tied to the story that you actually need to complete your personal quest line for?

Yeah you can't notice the difference between War, Scindo prime and Galatine prime but dakra prime and broken war killing times are noticeable.( With Vengeful Revenant.) You still need to be MR6 to use it, when we consider resource usage to become MR6 compared to MR3 its clear that Dakra prime needs more love. Using plat either you earned from trade or bought it with real money, complating that quest is much easier.(which I complated it with in 1 day). Also my beauty didn't came with built in catalyst.

Spoiler

Also Crimson Dervish is SH*T 

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Rapiddragon

[(PSN)Crixus044]

21 hours ago, Katinka said:

That doesn't really surprise me since Crimson Dervish isn't fast (it slows you down) but it's strength is a 3x damage multiplier and a combo that can open the enemy up to a finisher.

I still don't see why specifically the Dakra Prime needs to be any of those things.

Because it's the ONLY prime sword (Excluding Founder Exclusive Skana Prime) and it's outdone by a regular quest weapon. I mean, the first quest weapon we get is a heat sword. Why is it that the Heat Sword isn't really good? In the case of the War, the Scindo Prime was equal to it and the Galatine Prime outclassed it. Also, the Fragor Prime technically outclasses it in damage, so the War is really good, but doesn't outclass any of the prime heavy melees. Yet, the Broken War out-classes the prime sword, more importantly, the ONLY prime sword in every way (No Skana Prime.

I saw a post about how much Crimson Dervish improves the damage of Swords, and the results of a visual test was around 400% dps increase. Tempo Royale gave a 300% and Cleaving Whirlwind Broken Bull combo had around 500%. This is important because it shows that the best of the swords is still VERY underpowered compared to the other weapon classes it competes with. The only benefit of the sword (speed) is lost and power is still not enough to pass. So with the new blood rush body count system being the bread and butter of melee, swords have really fallen behind in terms of power and with crits being so important, a crit heavy sword other than the Prisma Skana seems needed.It's a great opportunity to make the dakra prime at least equal or better.

[Neightrix]

Simple. Give it 20% status or a little bit more in one of the crit stats. Anything to make Broken-War not 100% better.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Neightrix

[bl4ckhunter]

On 17/9/2016 at 7:36 PM, Kuestenjung said:

I love my Tekko and use them even against Lvl100 although they have really low damage. And why do I use them? Because they are fun whereas killing enemies with 1 hit is less fun to me.

WAT? like just equip seismic palm and hold RMB and you'll five shot almost everything in the game regardless of level, they may have low range but low damage? a weapon that deals red crit counter finishers? Naaaaaah

on topic they need to do a balance pass on ALL the weapons i mean look at some of the lower end melees, they're so weak they practically heal the enemies

Edited September 21, 2016 by bl4ckhunter