ENDO farming nerfed?

[-AncientWarrior-]

Hey all,

We  were at our usually endo farming spot, we usually get 2k-3k endo per 15-20 waves and today its like 300 at 15 wave, we tried it 3 times and stuff all endo .. Anyone read about the endo being nerfed at all?  Any link to info would be appreciated as i have searched but havent found any info on the update reflecting endo drops.

cheers

[Ork_vom_Mork]

I noticed exactly the same. It seems like we face a drastic endo drop nerf down to 10% of the usual droprate. If DE really thinks that those sculptures would compensate this, omg, they know nothing about farming endo. By this droprate we need to do over 2500 waves of infested defense to drop enough endo for maxing a primed mod...

If only they would finally scale the amount of endo dropped by higher enemies, we would have a reason to do endless missions again. A level 250 heavy bombard dropping 1000 endo would really push me back to endless void survivals.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Ork_vom_Mork

[-AncientWarrior-]

Exactly.. we spend a lot of time going through all the planets and nodes to find decent resource areas only to get them nerfed again and again.. DE why not just make the high end-game enemies drop high quantities of endo (400 endo +) and resources.  Especially when we need nearly 41,000 endo just to max out 1 single primed mod ... we do sorties and raids daily now and the rewards, well lets say .. arent why we play them :)  

[LSG501]

I'll be honest here and say pretty much everything seems to have been nerfed with the new updates....including health and energy orbs. 

I'm hoping this is just a bug due to the new packaging but I'm sadly thinking it's most likely their intended approach to 'reducing the grind' by making us grind even more....

More grind makes me (and I assume others by the lack of playing members in my alliance) want to play the game less, playing the game less means I'm less likely to buy plat....no plat means no money for DE, why can they not understand this simple idea.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

13 hours ago, Madas007 said:

Hey all,

We  were at our usually endo farming spot, we usually get 2k-3k endo per 15-20 waves and today its like 300 at 15 wave, we tried it 3 times and stuff all endo .. Anyone read about the endo being nerfed at all?  Any link to info would be appreciated as i have searched but havent found any info on the update reflecting endo drops.

cheers

 I can only speculate since I don't know where your endo spot is, but I think this tidbit in the TSG 3 patch notes is your problem:

- Fixed mods dropping disproportionately often from Infested Runners.

Assumption 1 is your spot is an infested node and assumption 2 is that endo replaced fusion core mods so the under the hood code still considers them to be basically the same thing.

[SenorClipClop]

Here's a bit of a broad consideration, but what might have been your draw in Fusion Cores from your normal Endo runs? We're not totally sure of the Fusion-Endo exchange rate, but what if DE buffed Fusion drops when they became Endo, because they were still working on Fusion Part 2, and then reverted them to the old levels of Fusion Core drops back before Endo came about in the first place? What if we're actually just seeing the end of a month-long buff, a temporary Fusion drop increase to patch over the missing alternate sources between Parts 1 and 2 of the Fusion rework, and we're just noticing now because misfortune is much more visible to its target than fortune?

[NinjaKitsune56]

8 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Here's a bit of a broad consideration, but what might have been your draw in Fusion Cores from your normal Endo runs? We're not totally sure of the Fusion-Endo exchange rate, but what if DE buffed Fusion drops when they became Endo, because they were still working on Fusion Part 2, and then reverted them to the old levels of Fusion Core drops back before Endo came about in the first place? What if we're actually just seeing the end of a month-long buff, a temporary Fusion drop increase to patch over the missing alternate sources between Parts 1 and 2 of the Fusion rework, and we're just noticing now because misfortune is much more visible to its target than fortune?

Common Mods dissolve into 5 Endo, Uncommon mods into 10 Endo, Rare mods into 15 endo... Now, I'm running on an assumption here... We have two Endo packs in sortie tables now... replacing the 25x and 50x R5 core packs... if the math's right, then the old R5s translated to 80 Endo each. Going off of that, and running further assumption, then Uncommons translated to 40 Endo, and Commons to 20 Endo.

That said, if Endo is still being listed as a mod in the drop tables, it doesn't make sense to me, as those little PokeBall look-alikes are worth less than an Uncommon core, and this should be fixed.

That said, I don't mean this kind of fixed...

[SenorClipClop]

2 minutes ago, NinjaKitsune56 said:

Spoiler

 

Common Mods dissolve into 5 Endo, Uncommon mods into 10 Endo, Rare mods into 15 endo... Now, I'm running on an assumption here... We have two Endo packs in sortie tables now... replacing the 25x and 50x R5 core packs... if the math's right, then the old R5s translated to 80 Endo each. Going off of that, and running further assumption, then Uncommons translated to 40 Endo, and Commons to 20 Endo.

That said, if Endo is still being listed as a mod in the drop tables, it doesn't make sense to me, as those little PokeBall look-alikes are worth less than an Uncommon core, and this should be fixed.

That said, I don't mean this kind of fixed...

 

 

Thanks for doing the math. But I'm also unclear, how does Endo's drop rate compare with the former drop rate of Fusion Cores? I never farmed cores (outside of Excavation) and I've never farmed Endo, so my perspective is only a passing-glance kind of one, but it feels to me like I pick up Endo more often than I picked up Fusion Cores. If an increased drop rate balances out a diminishing of the value per individual Endo drop, the overall acquired Fusion fuel maaaay be about equal.

[-AncientWarrior-]

The strange thing is on another node which we used to get say 350-700 endo for 15-20 waves, yes infested defense, this rate is still maintained.  But the node(s) where we used to farm our majority of endo is now down approx 80-90% less than before the latest update.  I have run our "usually endo farming mission" 7 times in the last 24 hrs and the last one 10 waves only gave 90 endo.  Normally we would get something like 10 waves 800-1100 endo, utilising Hydriod, Nekros and Trinity.   This new Ayatan system is .. ah how to put this.. nice to have a statue in the ship but a waste of time to use it to get endo .. especially with the added credit cost when you sell to maroo.. oh well back to the star map search for another endo farm node.

[NinjaKitsune56]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

Thanks for doing the math. But I'm also unclear, how does Endo's drop rate compare with the former drop rate of Fusion Cores? I never farmed cores (outside of Excavation) and I've never farmed Endo, so my perspective is only a passing-glance kind of one, but it feels to me like I pick up Endo more often than I picked up Fusion Cores. If an increased drop rate balances out a diminishing of the value per individual Endo drop, the overall acquired Fusion fuel maaaay be about equal.

If anything, I saw roughly twice the number of cores compared to endo drops. Admittedly, the core drops ranged between Commons and Rares... thing is, I see... 15 Endo here... 20 over there, 12 off to the side, and, oh hey!, 50 Endo from that Corrupted Nullifier that killed me twice thanks to his Bombard buddy's cheap triple-shot target-seeking rocket launcher!

Running the conversion math... with cores, I'd see the equivalent of 1500-2000+ Endo after about 40 minutes of T3 Survival, or between 18.75 and 25 R5 cores.

Now? I'm surprised if I get 300-400 Endo out of the same run... or between 3.75 and 5 R5 cores... Anyone complaining about the lack of Endo from mission runs is, if anything, understating just how much we're really losing in comparison to the old fusion cores, even if we get "No wasted mod energy" out of it. And unless the bonuses stack like mad with these new Ayatan Sculptures and their stars... not too sure they'll be worth the trips.

That, of course, implies people are willing to grind the Void for fancy Orokin artwork and the batteries to power 'em.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

1 hour ago, Madas007 said:

The strange thing is on another node which we used to get say 350-700 endo for 15-20 waves, yes infested defense, this rate is still maintained.  But the node(s) where we used to farm our majority of endo is now down approx 80-90% less than before the latest update.

The patch note specifically says infested runners were changed.  More than likely your good node spawned a lot of them while your other node that stayed the same didn't.  Leapers and volatile runners are much more common in some missions in place of runners.

[ograzzt]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

The patch note specifically says infested runners were changed.  More than likely your good node spawned a lot of them while your other node that stayed the same didn't.  Leapers and volatile runners are much more common in some missions in place of runners.

This. His special node was probably low level DS infested defense. Now mod droprate of runners is back to normal, which means no more Seismic Palm rain. Oh, and less endo.

[-AncientWarrior-]

49 minutes ago, ograzzt said:

This. His special node was probably low level DS infested defense. Now mod droprate of runners is back to normal, which means no more Seismic Palm rain. Oh, and less endo.

You are correct it is lower level stuff 20-30 DS infested defense, and the other is 35-45 DS infested defense.. hmmm anyone know where a drop table of endo could be located so i can see what enemies actually can drop endo?

[-BM-SniperKitten]

9 hours ago, Madas007 said:

You are correct it is lower level stuff 20-30 DS infested defense, and the other is 35-45 DS infested defense.. hmmm anyone know where a drop table of endo could be located so i can see what enemies actually can drop endo?

I'd like this drop table too if possible :)

[radastir]

Excavation rewards are still the same.

[(XBOX)Deflinek]

Before the endo I rarely farmed fusion cores and if I did it was always Hieracon. I didn't bother farm endo yet because after auto-change of fusion cores and changing all the Ammo Drums and alike gave me enough to not worry for it for a while.

However was it really a "nerf"? You guys say you used to get 3k-4k endo per 40 minutes of whatever. Are you sure the same mission before the endo gave you 35-50 gold R5 cores in the same time? One gold R5 core per minute?

If the answer is yes, then please explain why the only 2 answers for countless forum topics "where to farm fusion cores" were Hieracon or sorties? Was it like "forbidden secret" that no one dare to tell in fear it gets removed? Or indeed it was, as even now after it was clearly fixed there is no single post in this thread with the actual name of that mission...

[LSG501]

7 hours ago, ograzzt said:

This. His special node was probably low level DS infested defense. Now mod droprate of runners is back to normal, which means no more Seismic Palm rain. Oh, and less endo.

Which severely hits new players who pretty much need all the endo they can get to level up their mods... common sense seems to go out of the window when it comes to 'changes' to drop rates at DE. 

Lower levels are nice places for players to casually farm for 'useful' resources while doing the level up for MR grind...

[ograzzt]

2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Which severely hits new players who pretty much need all the endo they can get to level up their mods... common sense seems to go out of the window when it comes to 'changes' to drop rates at DE. 

Lower levels are nice places for players to casually farm for 'useful' resources while doing the level up for MR grind...

It was obvious bug. When they added Uranus sealab tileset same thing happend with Drekar Heavy Gunner's drops. And it was patched as well. I don't see anything wrong with that. Also, there are so many ways to get endo now, fusion is already much much easier than it ever was even without bugs.

[LSG501]

29 minutes ago, ograzzt said:

It was obvious bug. When they added Uranus sealab tileset same thing happend with Drekar Heavy Gunner's drops. And it was patched as well. I don't see anything wrong with that. Also, there are so many ways to get endo now, fusion is already much much easier than it ever was even without bugs.

It wasn't exactly damaging anything in the game other than allowing players to get a necessary resource (endo) faster, it's not exactly a fast process to get endo with the current drop rates and it's not like it isn't needed for levelling up EVERY mod used in the game or anything.....  how many do you need for a primed mod again...sure I read it was over 40,000 endo.

New players are the ones who DE want to spend money on the game, new players who find the game has too much grind will leave.... not to mention at some point you need strong mods to stop you being killed every shot which isn't fun either...

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Which severely hits new players who pretty much need all the endo they can get to level up their mods... common sense seems to go out of the window when it comes to 'changes' to drop rates at DE. 

Having endo is great and all but when you don't have the credits to use it then what does it matter.  2k-3k of endo for a 20 wave defense is just broken and the only way you can support that much fusion is to either run a massive number of other missions or run a credit booster while running a big number of other missions.

The point is all the things in the game need to be in balance.  That much endo from runners was not balanced.

14 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

how many do you need for a primed mod again...sure I read it was over 40,000 endo.

It also costs very nearly 2 million credits.  Lets say you are getting 2.5k endo per mission and 15k in credits.  You have your 40k endo in 16 missions and also 240k in credits.  Where is the remaining 1.66 million credits coming from?

Edited September 23, 2016 by (PS4)Agent_CHAR

[(XBOX)Deflinek]

2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

New players are the ones who DE want to spend money on the game, new players who find the game has too much grind will leave.... not to mention at some point you need strong mods to stop you being killed every shot which isn't fun either...

Please don't use new players as an excuse for a bug. New players don't need primed mods at rank 10 (even if they have one). They don't even need other mods at rank 10. Serration, Vitality, Redirection at rank 6-7 is just as good for new player. Maybe even better, as they don't have many formas nor will to rank their stuff again.

However such bugs can damage economy in game. It lets players how know how to expoit the bug level max rank Serration, Heavy Caliber or other corrupted mods in few days and sell it for big bucks. It devaluates prices for everything else harming everyone in the long run.

[LSG501]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

Having endo is great and all but when you don't have the credits to use it then what does it matter.  2k-3k of endo for a 20 wave defense is just broken and the only way you can support that much fusion is to either run a massive number of other missions or run a credit booster while running a big number of other missions.

The point is all the things in the game need to be in balance.  That much endo from runners was not balanced.

It also costs very nearly 2 million credits.  Lets say you are getting 2.5k endo per mission and 15k in credits.  You have your 40k endo in 16 missions and also 240k in credits.  Where is the 1.66 million credits coming from?

Doesn't that just show that credits need upping too, oh wait that was a 'nerf' topic about a month ago.... they do imo but that's a different topic. 

All this grind is fine if you can spend 5-6 hours a day on the game but what about the casual player who wants to play the game without the constant need to grind for resources, but can't because they need said resources to move forward... oh wait you can buy it via plat.... which is fine up to a point (assuming it's even in the market) and to be honest my view is resources should not NEED to be bought via plat in ANY game.  There's already a paywall for things like extra slots as it is, we don't need anything else to become pay to play.

Now don't get me wrong with what I'm saying, I'm not saying we need things where you can do everything in a day (although I do hate forma levelling stuff) but there does need to be a better balance (an area where DE really does struggle imo) to the way resources and the likes are given out in the game.  I've been doing levels for the last couple of days and on a majority of them theres hardly any energy orbs....which is great for a game where using our abilities is a major part of the games concept, if I wanted to play a shooter I could go play any number of other first person shooter games. 

Considering this games 'end game' is fashion frame which requires spending real money you would think DE would want to make people enjoy the game so they play more and encourages people to spend money on plat or tennogen...

Edited September 23, 2016 by LSG501

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

49 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

All this grind is fine if you can spend 5-6 hours a day on the game but what about the casual player who wants to play the game without the constant need to grind for resources, but can't because they need said resources to move forward...

A player that causal doesn't have or need primed mods.  I have an alt account where I'm mastery 11 and my only two maxed r10's are serration and vitality.  On this account I successfully carry my own weight in sorties all the time.

Please stop using new players or causal players for an excuse.  Just admit *YOU* want easier grind and *YOU* get pissed if or when DE does something counter to that.  No one is going to argue with that.

[LSG501]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

Please stop using new players or causal players for an excuse.  Just admit *YOU* want easier grind and *YOU* get pissed if or when DE does something counter to that.  No one is going to argue with that.

oh that explains everything... 'YOU' are one of the 'git gud' crowd who doesn't see the bigger picture. 

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

oh that explains everything... 'YOU' are one of the 'git gud' crowd who doesn't see the bigger picture. 

It has nothing to do with a 'GIT GUD' attitude.  If you are putting minimal effort as a casual player or you've put in minimal effort so far because you are new then it is perfectly acceptable to not have everything handed to you.  That is the big picture.

 

[LSG501]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

It has nothing to do with a 'GIT GUD' attitude.  If you are putting minimal effort as a casual player or you've put in minimal effort so far because you are new then it is perfectly acceptable to not have everything handed to you.  That is the big picture.

 

if you say so.... you clearly aren't going to accept that there is a need to balance the game for newer (and old) players because of your git gut attitude (I'm sorry but it is).  The simple fact it the game is currently being nerfed into a grind fest and just because you think everything is fine doesn't mean that is the situation for other players, and having a second account at MR11 (that's not new player is it...) isn't the same, no matter what you try to say, you already have experience in the game which makes a huge difference.