Ammo Case kills Ammo Mutation Mods, RIP

[CosmicHermitCrab]

What bothered me about the new update wasn't the Vacuum nerf, since 6 meters is good enough for me and one time I didn't have carrier for months so I was used to playing without it, but the Ammo Case mod in relation to the ammo mutation mods, especially the primed ones.

Ammo case converts ammo in a 1:1 ratio so it's like a rank 3 mutation mod except it's 100% to all types of ammo, which is interesting. I tested this, so I could be wrong since DE neglected to give us the specific details of Ammo case mod. If you got any information about it, please post about it here. All mutation mods at max rank have less than 100% ammo conversion efficiency for one of the ammo types. Ammo efficiency is very important late game or for long-term missions in this game. Primed ammo mutation mods are now pretty much worthless since Carrier's new Ammo Case gives relatively the same performance. I rely highly on ammo mutation mods on most weapons with poor ammo economy such as the prisma grakata.

Good bye ammo mutation mods, you're just another overlooked obsolete mod that DE neglected. Now I have a bigger reason to use Carrier Prime now, to replace a mod slot on my primary or secondary weapon, which is the slot for ammo mutation mod. Wasted endo on my primed ammo mutation mods, oh well. It's not like the other Sentinals kill or cc enemies harder than the other warframe's equipment.

 

Ah, just got 5 rifle ammo from pistol ammo with Ammo Case, so it's exactly like a rank 3 ammo mutation mod guys. I was wrong. Also, Ammo Case and Ammo mutation stacks, which is better than not stacking...

 

Also,  according to what I understand and observed, Ammo Case is like an ammo drum rank 4 in combination with a rank 3 ammo mutation mod. Rank 3 mutation mod plus normal ammo mutation mod equals a rank 13 primed mutation mod (rank 0 counts as a rank). Thus, primed mutation mod is better than normal mutation mod and ammo case in terms of gaining ammo by 1 rank; however, ammo case gives ammo drum rank 4, which should be considered as well.

 

Whatever, I like this new change, screw mutation mods anyways.

Edited October 5, 2016 by WingGun

[AperoBeltaTwo]

That's the reason why I'll still use the carrier.
 

 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Thus, 80% of players will still use the Prime Carrier, if they are smart enough.

[Dualstar]

Well, i dont mind. Just another slot freed for moar damage mods.

...though i doubt the Kohm will float with just ammo case. And same goes for the myriad of machine pistols and other high RoF secondaries out there.

[LSG501]

6 minutes ago, WingGun said:

Ammo case converts ammo in a 1:1 ratio so it's like a rank 3 mutation mod except it's 100% to all types of ammo, which is interesting. I tested this, so I could be wrong since DE neglected to give us the specific details of Ammo case mod

They said the ammo mod converts ammo into the ammo of the active weapon after a small delay....

[CosmicHermitCrab]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

They said the ammo mod converts ammo into the ammo of the active weapon after a small delay....

That delay isn't very long pal...Ammo mutation RIP, New Meta!

Edited October 5, 2016 by WingGun

[Azrael]

At max rank primed rifle ammo mutation gives 275% efficiency for shotgun and sniper ammo, and about 69% efficiency for pistol ammo (which is kinda weird). It's conceivable that you may still need a mutation mod for long missions with weapons like the prisma grakata or twin grakata. Weapons like akstiletto prime, however, are fine with a lesser mutation mod, so carrier will work fine.

Or maybe they will stack! Maybe ammo mutation + ammo case = it's literally raining ammo and you can never run out.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

3 minutes ago, Azrael said:

At max rank primed rifle ammo mutation gives 275% efficiency for shotgun and sniper ammo, and about 69% efficiency for pistol ammo (which is kinda weird). It's conceivable that you may still need a mutation mod for long missions with weapons like the prisma grakata or twin grakata. Weapons like akstiletto prime, however, are fine with a lesser mutation mod, so carrier will work fine.

Or maybe they will stack! Maybe ammo mutation + ammo case = it's literally raining ammo and you can never run out.

What you are overlooking is that damage also increases the weapon's ammo economy or ammo efficiency. Thus, in certain cases depending on the "minor" details of Ammo Case, having pure damage mods (along with crit ofc) on prisma grakata will make each bullet more "worthy" than a primsa grakata with the ammo mutation mod. It might even be an overkill to have both Ammo Case and Ammo Mutation as well.

[chofranc]

But there is a problem, at high levels your sentinel will die almost in any case and *BAAM*, you will not have the ammo mutation of your carrier.

[-Gundam-]

1 minute ago, chofranc said:

But there is a problem, at high levels your sentinel will die almost in any case and *BAAM*, you will not have the ammo mutation of your carrier.

Good point!

[Azrael]

9 minutes ago, WingGun said:

What you are overlooking is that damage also increases the weapon's ammo economy or ammo efficiency. Thus, in certain cases depending on the "minor" details of Ammo Case, having pure damage mods (along with crit ofc) on prisma grakata will make each bullet more "worthy" than a primsa grakata with the ammo mutation mod. It might even be an overkill to have both Ammo Case and Ammo Mutation as well.

Good point. Needs more testing, though. I can't tell whether they are stacking or not. It seems like they aren't.

[Neah]

While the ammo conversion from Ammo Case is nice, it will not be enough for the more ammo hungry guns like Glaxion / Amprex etc. It also stacks with the regular Ammo Mutation mods to make them more effective.

[(XBOX)freakytiki3]

I really don't understand the anal compulsion around a vacuum effect, at one time it was really important to me but then you realize the base range was so small to begin with your still have to run everywhere to get your resources/mods.

You can play without vacuum and still lead in kills mod pickups and resource pickups

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Ah, just got 5 rifle ammo from pistol ammo with Ammo Case, so it's exactly like a rank 3 ammo mutation mod guys. I was wrong.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

1 minute ago, Neah said:

While the ammo conversion from Ammo Case is nice, it will not be enough for the more ammo hungry guns like Glaxion / Amprex etc. It also stacks with the regular Ammo Mutation mods to make them more effective.

Are you sure they stack? You got any evidence? I would like to know for sure.

[Neah]

Spoiler

Primed ammo Mutation (maxed) without Ammo Case

Primed ammo Mutation (maxed) with Ammo Case

@WingGun

Edited October 5, 2016 by Neah

[LSG501]

8 minutes ago, WingGun said:

Are you sure they stack? You got any evidence? I would like to know for sure.

 

10 minutes ago, Neah said:

While the ammo conversion from Ammo Case is nice, it will not be enough for the more ammo hungry guns like Glaxion / Amprex etc. It also stacks with the regular Ammo Mutation mods to make them more effective.

I can 'confirm' that they seem to stack, just did a defence with and without the ammo case mod and there was a significant difference in the amount of ammo being converted for my soma prime. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by LSG501

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Thanks for the information guys, I'll still use prime ammo mutation with some weapons then...but for synoid simulor, nope.

Edited October 5, 2016 by WingGun

[Azrael]

I just took a kohm to a capture mission with both primed shotgun mute and carrier, and then again with only carrier. I had significant;y less ammo with only carrier. In fact I'd say that carrier was nowhere near sufficient for any long mission, and for  excavation and survival missions I'd have to stick with the mutation mod. The only thing I'm not clear on is: is using both better than using primed mutation only? It's hard to tell at this point. It's possible that you just get the better of the two mutation rates, making it appear to stack without actually stacking.

[bl4ckhunter]

i hope it stacks, some weapons don't cut it even with a maxed primed ammo mutation, maybe i'll be able to get some use out of my kohm if it does.

[LSG501]

10 minutes ago, Azrael said:

I just took a kohm to a capture mission with both primed shotgun mute and carrier, and then again with only carrier. I had significant;y less ammo with only carrier. In fact I'd say that carrier was nowhere near sufficient for any long mission, and for  excavation and survival missions I'd have to stick with the mutation mod. The only thing I'm not clear on is: is using both better than using primed mutation only? It's hard to tell at this point. It's possible that you just get the better of the two mutation rates, making it appear to stack without actually stacking.

I did with both ammo mutation and ammo case versus just ammo mutation (non primed) and there was an increase with them both being active. 

[CosmicHermitCrab]

29 minutes ago, Azrael said:

I just took a kohm to a capture mission with both primed shotgun mute and carrier, and then again with only carrier. I had significant;y less ammo with only carrier. In fact I'd say that carrier was nowhere near sufficient for any long mission, and for  excavation and survival missions I'd have to stick with the mutation mod. The only thing I'm not clear on is: is using both better than using primed mutation only? It's hard to tell at this point. It's possible that you just get the better of the two mutation rates, making it appear to stack without actually stacking.

According to what I understand and observed, Ammo Case is like an ammo drum rank 4 in combination with a rank 3 ammo mutation mod. Rank 3 mutation mod plus normal ammo mutation mod equals a rank 13 primed mutation mod (rank 0 counts as a rank). Thus, primed mutation mod is better than normal mutation mod and ammo case in terms of gaining ammo by 1 rank; however, ammo case gives ammo drum rank 4, which should be considered as well.

Edited October 5, 2016 by WingGun

[Azrael]

Confirmed, they do stack. Picking up one of the orange ammo drops (I totally remember which one it is, I'm just testing you), I get 11 shotgun ammo with my rank 8 primed ammo mutation only, and 16 with both a rank 8 primed mutation and carrier. So I'd say that both methods have a place in the game, carrier is less effective but doesn't take a mod, and for the most effectiveness they can stack.