The 're-buff' to Vacuum actually made things worse

[Sziklamester]

1 minute ago, SolaireTheSunWalker said:

 vacuum was the real problem because if you saw the chart DE put out the other day it was 52% use on carrier prime and 26% on normal carrier. That's being compared to the rest of the sentinels are like 8% - 4% and gets lower. Normal carrier has the same stats as basically any other sentinel so why does it have 26% when the next highest is 8% ? It's clear what the problem really is that's laziness or not wanting to miss loot 

Partly lazyness from peoples and vacuum but the survivability is also a good point because there is carrier and wyrm prime which have better stats for survive but mostly carrier prime.

[pauli133]

1 minute ago, LazerSkink said:

Did it ever occur to anyone that that the phrase 'death threat' was used an an exagerration (albeit, a dark one)? I'm in doubt that they actually received anything of the sorts. However, if it actually happened, I don't really have anything to say.

It's 2016. Death threats directed at developers are real, and way more common than you appear to think.

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, pauli133 said:

and way more common than you appear to think.

 

Hey, if it happened, that sucks and I don't condone such a thing at all. But honestly, I doubt it. I also doubt they would make changes based off any threats.

[KrypTic.]

Just now, Sziklamester said:

It is a good point.

Also have metal fiber which almost non used because most of sentinels have low armor.

Another issue the sentinel arsenal which is pretty lame and that supposed to be make them more survival than they doesn't use weapons. They haven't a real arsenal as example the deth machine gun is so weak and on high level with the almost zero crit-status you can't use it so long. Raw damage also bad and the rest is just not durable enough to survive on high levels. 

 

Until this not changing the sentinels will be in the same state.

I completely agree with attentiveness of sentinel's and how they function. Considering that they've just been finished working on the New Djinn skin, might be worth making that sentinel the 'high' value armour sentinel in all honesty.
In addition one things i've done for a while now with sentinel weapons is just have them un-equiped as they don't agro enemies as much to give them a reason to shoot back them. 

[Azrael]

No. Just no. If I want ammo mutation, I use carrier. If I don't want ammo mutation, I use something else. Weak ammo mutation equal to a rank 3 mutation mod is not miles ahead of all other sentinal precepts. The only thing we can legitimately complain about is the EHP of the other sentinals.

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

 

Hey, if it happened, that sucks and I don't condone such a thing at all. But honestly, I doubt it. I also doubt they would make changes based off any threats.

Hey mate, you have to gamble, right? You have to bet either yes or no, ok? What you're betting on is the emotional maturity of the warframe community. 

 

Yes? Or no?

[ZeroSample]

13 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

  Reveal hidden contents

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

On topic, the whole point of the Vacuum nerf was to ensure that the playerbase actually used something other than Carrier/Prime. With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

And then of course, players decided to throw a fit and make death threats to DE, and so they did the logical thing, and changed it so that every Sentinel had the original Precept.

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

...

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

Well, I agree on the threat part. Then again, I haven't seen any actual threats.

What I can't come to terms with, is how 12m universal Vacuum is supposed to have made matters worse.

I mean, pre-buff it was the very same. EACH sentinel had a 6m Vacuum.Carrier had an ammo mutation,additionaly. Nothing's changed.

Vacuum has the same range  for every Sentinel.

Also, I'd appreciate it, if you spoke for yourself. Personally, I was never much of a fan of ammo mutation.

A) I'm a melee enthusiast.

B) I tend to go for the weapons that are ammo efficient, to begin with.

C) Haven't used Carrier even once, since the release of "The Vacuum Within".

 

[Azrael]

4 minutes ago, pauli133 said:

It's 2016. Death threats directed at developers are real, and way more common than you appear to think.

I can't help but think that you'd have to already pretty freakin unbalanced to send death threats over a change in a video game.

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

20 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

  Hide contents

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

On topic, the whole point of the Vacuum nerf was to ensure that the playerbase actually used something other than Carrier/Prime. With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

And then of course, players decided to throw a fit and make death threats to DE, and so they did the logical thing, and changed it so that every Sentinel had the original Precept.

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

...

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

DEATH THREATS? little bit extreme

[i.chit.you.not]

you probably forget, in addition to new vacuum power other sentinels has innate abilities "scan" (helios), fatal atraction (djin), massive stun (digira), wyrm, deathcube also have .. so carrier by itself has no further advantage, it makes sense to keep the ammo mutation

[Fionntan]

15 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

We started with Carrier already carrying a little over half the Sentinel usage. Then we went to a point where there was actually a better reason to use other Sentinels (if a small, insignificant reason). Now, we're at a point where there is zero reason to use anything but Carrier. That's not good.

Is not set it stone though, now all DE needs to do go back to drawing board and add some similar useful buff like carrier has to other sentinels; maybe even brew some feedback threads & brainstorm on how to approach said rework/buff for rest of sentinels.

 

1 minute ago, ZeroSample said:

Well, I agree on the threat part. Then again, I haven't seen any actual threats.

What I can't come to terms with, is how 12m universal Vacuum is supposed to have made matters worse.

I mean, pre-buff it was the very same. EACH sentinel had a 6m Vacuum.Carrier had an ammo mutation,additionaly. Nothing's changed.

Vacuum has the same range  for every Sentinel.

Also, I'd appreciate it, if you spoke for yourself. Personally, I was never much of a fan of ammo mutation.

A) I'm a melee enthusiast.

B) I tend to go for the weapons that are ammo efficient, to begin with.

C) Haven't used Carrier even once, since the release of "The Vacuum Within".

 

Pretty much my thoughs; heck I sometimes use Smeeta for mat/trace farming.

[Larred]

11 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

Did it ever occur to anyone that that the phrase 'death threat' was used an an exagerration (albeit, a dark one)? I'm in doubt that they actually received anything of the sorts. However, if it actually happened, I don't really have anything to say.

this has become scary common though its awful we sunk that low as humans

[(PSN)xXToastiButterXx]

10 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

Did it ever occur to anyone that that the phrase 'death threat' was used an an exagerration (albeit, a dark one)? I'm in doubt that they actually received anything of the sorts. However, if it actually happened, I don't really have anything to say.

"Exaggeration" because this isn't something that has happened before?

The Devs have touched on this subject before, in a joking manner, but it has happened before, it's sad to see this is becoming a norm amongst the community where a slight change to anything can result in a death threat directed at people not even directly involved.

[PsiWarp]

That's the problem with Sentinels in general, while vacuum is one of the issues. They've been neglected for so long, I do believe it's time to get them up-to-date.

Survivability, utility, all of those need changes to reflect Sentinels' roles as Companion to the player. For one, why are Sentinels so fragile when they are designed to stick so close to the player at all times? They'll without a doubt be caught in the crossfire and die, so a silly Regen mod isn't going to help them see use past the first few minutes of the mission.

[Azrael]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Hey mate, you have to gamble, right? You have to bet either yes or no, ok? What you're betting on is the emotional maturity of the warframe community. 

 

Yes? Or no?

Oh please no. Anyone who makes death threats to DE is NOT A PART of the "warframe community." I get what you're saying, but I frankly refuse to consider them part of us or one of us. We may disagree, sometimes angrily, but tenno DO NOT send threats to DE. Doing so means you are not one of us, plain and simple.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Azrael said:

Oh please no. Anyone who makes death threats to DE is NOT A PART of the "warframe community." I get what you're saying, but I frankly refuse to consider them part of us or one of us. We may disagree, sometimes angrily, but tenno DO NOT send threats to DE. Doing so means you are not one of us, plain and simple.

Hey, how often do people have to get kicked from Region chat on Fridays for yelling RIOT because every single month they absolutely demand that Baro bring something obscenely overpowered for them?

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Larred said:

this has become scary common though its awful we sunk that low as humans

3 hours ago, (PS4)rinneganadrian said:

"Exaggeration" because this isn't something that has happened before?

The Devs have touched on this subject before, in a joking manner, but it has happened before, it's sad to see this is becoming a norm amongst the community where a slight change to anything can result in a death threat directed at people not even directly involved.

 

Well, I unfortunately stand corrected. If it was real, that's pathetic; if it was a joke, incredibly poor taste. 

I'll stick to this:

3 hours ago, Azrael said:

Oh please no. Anyone who makes death threats to DE is NOT A PART of the "warframe community." I get what you're saying, but I frankly refuse to consider them part of us or one of us. We may disagree, sometimes angrily, but tenno DO NOT send threats to DE. Doing so means you are not one of us, plain and simple.

 

[--Q--uixotic]

24 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

 

Everything has vacuum now, so the difference is that Carrier has ammo mutation+capacity, vs the other sentinel abilities.

If it's just that then I'll bring Helios for vulnerability scanning on more runs when I don't need the extra ammo.

[Retequizzle]

20 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

We have something resembling a neutral starting point, from which further changes can be made to balance Carrier fairly against other sentinels without ruining the play experience.

You make it sound worse than it is.

To be completely fair, if the changes from today were elicited from the response the community had over the initial changes and not a genuine reevaluation of the rework from their end, it does set a dangerous precedent.  The last thing I want to see is a community gets its way because it throws a proverbial *@##$-fit until it gets the lollipop a parent took away back.

[(PSN)xXToastiButterXx]

Just now, LazerSkink said:

 

Well, I unfortunately stand corrected. If it was real, that's pathetic; if it was a joke, incredibly poor taste. 

I'll stick to this:

 

I agree with you @LazerSkink hopefully the Devs dished out the Golden Ban Hammer and smashed the Somatic Link of these Shameful Tenno.

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, (PS4)rinneganadrian said:

I agree with you @LazerSkink hopefully the Devs dished out the Golden Ban Hammer and smashed the Somatic Link of these Shameful Tenno.

Twitter handles are not linked to Warframe accounts.

[notlamprey]

1 minute ago, Retequizzle said:

To be completely fair, if the changes from today were elicited from the response the community had over the initial changes and not a genuine reevaluation of the rework from their end, it does set a dangerous precedent.  The last thing I want to see is a community gets its way because it throws a proverbial *@##$-fit until it gets the lollipop a parent took away back.

That's fair.

There are a lot of people around here who could do with some attitude adjustment.

[Larred]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Twitter handles are not linked to Warframe accounts.

i hope they can find him and lay some serious justice upon him

[Azrael]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Hey, how often do people have to get kicked from Region chat on Fridays for yelling RIOT because every single month they absolutely demand that Baro bring something obscenely overpowered for them?

While I agree that's childish, it's different than threats. Hell, I'll bet half of them do it ironically. Those that mean it are just trying to get attention, or don't really understand the issues involved. But they aren't threatening DE, and if they were they'd be gone in an instant. All I'm saying is: don't put that on the community as a whole. Anyone who acts that way is a cancer we will not miss, not a tenno with strong emotions. If some crazy person sends threats to rebecca (which is a crime, btw), that doesn't mean our community is doing that.

But I totally believe that it happened.

[PrVonTuckIII]

3 minutes ago, chrisx1125 said:

 

Everything has vacuum now, so the difference is that Carrier has ammo mutation+capacity, vs the other sentinel abilities.

If it's just that then I'll bring Helios for vulnerability scanning on more runs when I don't need the extra ammo.

There's a very good reason why people liked Carrier (aside from its tankiness). The other abilities were either not as reliable, or straight-up bugged. Nothing else did what it was supposed to with any real reliability (and no, I don't include Helios in that comparison. It did what it needed to do, but Carrier just did more useful things).