Mastery Rank lockout's are causing you to LOSE money.

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

What is left to play if you instantly buy everything ??? you will end up leveling up stuff and leaving the game...I absolutely agree on MR locks for weapons  ! Play your game and dont be lazy :) this topic is total nonsense

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

56 minutes ago, Foxirus said:

...Alright you win this round.

i have 250 k cryotic lol

[BlackCoMerc]

If free players have to grind for weeks to get access to something cash can buy right now, and that something is more powerful than the things available for free...

That's pay to win. Or at least, paid for advantage over free players.

[Prepotenza]

On 10/10/2016 at 3:14 AM, Senketsu_ said:

because that would actually make the game Pay 2 Win

Cause now it isn't, right?

Come on, I bought over 12k platinum in my first weeks of playing.
I bought Boltor Prime (MR2, you know) and bought maxed Heavy Caliber, maxed Serration and all the stuff that was needed.
At MR5 I bought Tonkor with plats and with maxed mods it carried me through MOST of the game content (before the headshot nerf thing).
I farmed a bunch of credits and was able to buy all the maxed Primed mods.

At Mastery Rank 5 my loadout was stronger than most MR20+ people.

Let's be serious about this. The OP is right, I don't see why they wouldn't let you buy MR locked weapon before you actually reach that MR.
Anyway you just need MR13 to acquire all the weapons in the game.
And you can reach MR4-5 in few days.

[Zachles]

I think most people actually farm resources for their weapons and Warframe. I think their biggest source of income is cosmetics (and I say this because I bought the Nekros Prime access when it came out, spent every single Platinum I had on cosmetics, and now I'm left with 0 Platinum) but I can only speak for myself, but I assume that other people are just as crazy about cosmetics as I am.

I got a 50% coupon a few days ago, seriously had an internal battle to buy the top tier Platinum package or not. I gave my credit card to my girlfriend so I wouldn't be tempted but it's a curse that I remember my card number. Luckily I staved off the urge. Sorry DE, I love you guys but not this time :( I have bills.

anyways, point is that I don't think DE is suffering by putting weapons behind a mastery rank lock. I do feel like it is a flawed system  to be honest, but far,one mastery isn't too bad, it just takes a long time lol. Also, and maybe someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that weapons you buy from Prime Access will let you bypass the mastery rank lockout. For a mastery rank 2 to buy a mastery rank 13 weapon with plat and bypass everything is pay to win. They could fly through most content in the solar chart without having to put in much effort, you know? Actually working for it makes it more fulfilling.

I've been busting my butt to get to mastery rank 22 because I've put it off for so long, went from 16 to almost 19 in one week, still got a lot more to go and it's been challenging and annoying but it's also felt pretty rewarding all things considered.

[(PSN)ghinellil]

There a lot of good weapon which not require high MR, a lot!

What we are talking about here? Tigris and Galatine Prime? Syndicate weapons? 

[SquireAngel]

1 hour ago, Prepotenza said:

Come on, I bought over 12k platinum in my first weeks of playing.

At Mastery Rank 5 my loadout was stronger than most MR20+ people.

First off, any Rank 20+ who actually plays the game will probably have 15+ loadouts maximized with a surplus of Forma. 

Secondly, pay 2 win means that you can simply pay to have more power than f2p players. WF is a pay to be impatient, and oddly enough, $600 worth of platinum can shave a lot of impatience off of the game. It's actually quite sad how you felt the need to pump that much money into the game to buy mods. Mods are easy enough to rank up as you rank up yourself, and most of the star map only requires maxed out r5 mods and slightly higher r10 mods. This says more to you getting played on tradechat than to the pay model of WF. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed rude remark

[Prepotenza]

1 hour ago, SquireAngel said:

First off, any Rank 20+ who actually plays the game will probably have 15+ loadouts maximized with a surplus of Forma. 

Secondly, pay 2 win means that you can simply pay to have more power than f2p players. WF is a pay to be impatient, and oddly enough, $600 worth of platinum can shave a lot of impatience off of the game. It's actually quite sad how you felt the need to pump that much money into the game to buy mods. Mods are easy enough to rank up as you rank up yourself, and most of the star map only requires maxed out r5 mods and slightly higher r10 mods. This says more to you getting played on tradechat than to the pay model of WF. 

I am not the kind of player that aims to clear <100 level missions.
Gladly you just needed a forma'ed Tonkor to outperform any rank 20+ player and all his 15+ loadouts with a surplus of Forma, cause Tonkor could one hit kill everything on the solar map.

The OP is asking the same thing, it's not like f2p players can't achieve the weapons that he wants to buy, they just need to be patient and play until the desired MR.
I was pointing out that with platinums you can build a loadout that is better than most f2p player's loadout.
I am MR22 with less than 800 hours played (steam shows around 1k), I got all frames (exc. Excal Prime) with maxed out builds (including exilus slots), most weapons with maxed out build, most Primed mods at rank 10, most r10 mods maxed, 3 different focus builds (naramon, zenurik and vazarin) with over 1kk points each and various stuff. I would be able to achieve this result by playing, but that would have took a lot. Same goes for maxing r10 mods, you have to farm 2.5kk (previously around 1.7) and 40k (or 30k) Endo (previosuly cores) to max a single Primed mod. Anyone can achieve that, but it requires a lot of time and patient.

IMHO the ability to reach such a result in such a low time by spending money looks like "pay to win".
But, of course, I might be wrong ;)

Edited October 19, 2016 by Prepotenza

[RacerDelux]

1 hour ago, Prepotenza said:

Cause now it isn't, right?

Come on, I bought over 12k platinum in my first weeks of playing.
I bought Boltor Prime (MR2, you know) and bought maxed Heavy Caliber, maxed Serration and all the stuff that was needed.
At MR5 I bought Tonkor with plats and with maxed mods it carried me through MOST of the game content (before the headshot nerf thing).
I farmed a bunch of credits and was able to buy all the maxed Primed mods.

At Mastery Rank 5 my loadout was stronger than most MR20+ people.

Let's be serious about this. The OP is right, I don't see why they wouldn't let you buy MR locked weapon before you actually reach that MR.
Anyway you just need MR13 to acquire all the weapons in the game.
And you can reach MR4-5 in few days.

That just goes to show how OP the tonkor is. It does crap tones of damage with little self damage.... Also with loadouts, your weapon is like 10% of what makes you viable in end game content ;).

-------------------------

To the argument that plat should bypass all mastery requirements. It has long been stated that spending money on warframe achieves two things: Fashionframe and "pay to accelerate". Notice that last word, "accelerate". Not "skip". By bypassing all MR requirements, warframe looses the p2a aspect. I fully agree that items should be MR locked. I actually would love to see them MR lock price access items too. (If you bought the pack, but are too low of MR, you simply can't use the weapon) 

 

Now, to the op - as was said before, it takes less than a week or two to hit MR5, at which point you can buy one of the most powerful weapons in the game. Instead of complaining go level up and get a tonkor. Done.

Edited October 19, 2016 by RacerDelux

[Lyravain]

On 10/10/2016 at 6:28 AM, Foxirus said:

@Senketsu_ @ZenshadowOfZramx 

I do not believe either of you understand the meaning of Pay to Win. Pay to Win is when an item or weapon used to win cannot be bought in any way or form by free players. The fact a paying player can get a weapon slightly faster than a free player does not make it a Pay to Win game. That weapon can still be acquired for free. Any wishing to argue farther can simply look at Prime Access that already allows one to circumvent the MR requirement. This alone makes both of your arguments invalid, As that would mean the game is already pay to win and we have nothing left to lose by making this a feature.

So, you're saying that if I have to be, let's say Level 100 to equip a weapon, but you can equip it at Level 20 because you paid for it... it's NOT pay-to-win? And I'm using levels in order to help YOU understand.

Here's a bit more realistic definition of pay-to-win; It is any item or service that provides an advantage to a player willing to pay out-of-game currency for an advantage they would not otherwise possess at that state of the game had they not paid said out-of-game currency.

Now, is MR-gating irritating for some people? Sure, I accept that. Does it somewhat limit the amount of money DE makes? Yeah, a bit. Is it to any noticeable degree? Nope -most income is acquired through cosmetics, not purchasing of non-primed items (or some of the primes via trading). Also, last I checked you could acquire Tigris/Vauban/Galatine parts from relics, just not build them -though feel free to correct me because,heh, not been MR13 in a long while now.

Now grind your account level like a good Tenno and be badass the legit way :D

[Prepotenza]

8 minutes ago, RacerDelux said:

That just goes to show how OP the tonkor is. It does crap tones of damage with little self damage.... Also with loadouts, your weapon is like 10% of what makes you viable in end game content ;).

-------------------------

To the argument that plat should bypass all mastery requirements. It has long been stated that spending money on warframe achieves two things: Fashionframe and "pay to accelerate". Notice that last word, "accelerate". Not "skip". By bypassing all MR requirements, warframe looses the p2a aspect. I fully agree that items should be MR locked. I actually would love to see them MR lock price access items too. (If you bought the pack, but are too low of MR, you simply can't use the weapon) 

 

Now, to the op - as was said before, it takes less than a week or two to hit MR5, at which point you can buy one of the most powerful weapons in the game. Instead of complaining go level up and get a tonkor. Done.

You are probably confused. Tonkor had no self damage, you could have shoot at your feets just to jump higher.

I am talking about loadouts, and only loadouts.
You can have a rank 50 serration but if you can't carry a bomb from the ground to the excavator you are just bad. -semicit.

Imho there is no big deal if a MR2 players is carrying around a Tigris Prime, a Rakta Cernos or a Stradavar.
To me sounds like a worse problem the fact that you can reach the same loadout as a 3 years player by spending some money.

[RacerDelux]

6 minutes ago, Prepotenza said:

You are probably confused. Tonkor had no self damage, you could have shoot at your feets just to jump higher.

I am talking about loadouts, and only loadouts.
You can have a rank 50 serration but if you can't carry a bomb from the ground to the excavator you are just bad. -semicit.

Imho there is no big deal if a MR2 players is carrying around a Tigris Prime, a Rakta Cernos or a Stradavar.
To me sounds like a worse problem the fact that you can reach the same loadout as a 3 years player by spending some money.

Tonkor does minimal self damage, its capped. Nothing that is actually dangerous or even more than a pin prick. That is the issue - it NEEDS self damage to balance it lol.

 

Your second point is somewhat true. There are things that DE is doing which rewards a player for playing longer. IE prime mods (while I guess you can start spending plat to get credits to pay the 1mil tax, at that point.... really? That person must just be far to rich for their own good =P), login reward weapons (that are actually good), and to a limited extent, event weapons. Yes they do come back, but in sorties (in which new players, even if they throw money at the game, may still have a hard time doing), and of course valted primes (which can be solved by plat).

Edited October 19, 2016 by RacerDelux

[Tricky5hift]

Why is it in literally every other game people complain about it being P2W.

While in this game, people complain about it being NOT P2W???

Edited October 19, 2016 by Tricky5hift

[Prepotenza]

18 minutes ago, RacerDelux said:

Tonkor does minimal self damage, its capped. Nothing that is actually dangerous or even more than a pin prick. That is the issue - it NEEDS self damage to balance it lol.

 

Your second point is somewhat true. There are things that DE is doing which rewards a player for playing longer. IE prime mods, login reward weapons (that are actually good), and to a limited extent, event weapons. Yes they do come back, but in sorties (in which new players, even if they throw money at the game, may still have a hard time doing).

I never heard or noticed the Tonkor's self damage. I assume you are right. But, if the self damage is so low that I can't even notice, it's like not having self damage at all.
After the nerf it can't reach 1M damage per shot anymore, in fact I switched permanently to SSimulor (that got nerfed in the same way, but still feels great).

You can buy most event weapons from the player (and you can farm them in some newer events or sorties), and you can buy any primed mod at maxed rank.
The only thing that makes difference is the login reward.

As for sorties: they are really overestimated.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Prepotenza

[RacerDelux]

1 minute ago, Prepotenza said:

I never heard or noticed the Tonkor's self damage. I assume you are right. But if the self damage is so low that I can't even notice it's like not having self damage at all.
After the nerf it can't reach 1M damage per shot anymore, in fact I switched permanently to SSimulor (that got nerfed in the same way, but still feels great).

You can buy most event weapons from the player (and you can farm them in some newer events or sorties), and you can buy any primed mod at maxed rank.
The only thing that makes difference is the login reward.

As for sorties: they are really overestimated.

You are right, sorties just need a good cheese and your good. Really for a lot of the sorties, you need to cheese them anyway, else you will get one shot every time something looks at you...

When did they nerf tonkor? I would like to read that patch note (If you don't mind - I will go and find it, but if you know where it is, I would be thankful).

Overall, my stance is that the way they do mastery locking is fine. If you want to buy prime access, while I don't agree with it ignoring MR, I will accept it. It is important for a game to have progression, even if you try to throw as much money at it as possible. 

If somebody has an issue with something not able to be bought, I really don't think warframe is the game for them anyhow. I buy stuff for the convenience factor. I don't have as much time as I would like to grind, but I have no problem doing it (which is necessary to unlock said items).

[Prepotenza]

Just now, RacerDelux said:

You are right, sorties just need a good cheese and your good. Really for a lot of the sorties, you need to cheese them anyway, else you will get one shot every time something looks at you...

When did they nerf tonkor? I would like to read that patch note (If you don't mind - I will go and find it, but if you know where it is, I would be thankful).

Overall, my stance is that the way they do mastery locking is fine. If you want to buy prime access, while I don't agree with it ignoring MR, I will accept it. It is important for a game to have progression, even if you try to throw as much money at it as possible. 

If somebody has an issue with something not able to be bought, I really don't think warframe is the game for them anyhow. I buy stuff for the convenience factor. I don't have as much time as I would like to grind, but I have no problem doing it (which is necessary to unlock said items).

I can't remember exactly, but I made a troll thread about the SSimulor when the nerf came out so you might find out the time the patch was released by looking at my post history or by googline something like "Synoid Simulor got nerfed, what weapon to use now?" or "gimme some ultra op weapon like SSimulor" (I remember that patch stated only explosive weapons would get affected, but SSimulor got affected too).
The nerf consisted in reworking how headshots are calculated for those weapons (previously you just needed to shoot randomly and you would achieve an headshot, making Argon Scope build on Tonkor godlike, now you actually have to aim at the head to do heashots, but most of the time you'll just fail).

The progression through early MR is fast and easy. You can reach MR8 in 2 weeks and at MR8 you can get most of the game content (exc. syndicate weapons, nekros prime access weapons and maybe something else). Considering this I wouldn't care if a player gets it after 3 days or after 2 weeks.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

pay to win depends on how you view it. for some pay to win is about having power items exclusive to those who buy premiums. wf have none of those.

for some p2w is skipping all the grind and reach endgame strength in the least time possible.

for me p2w is the first one because no matter how much grind you do you will never reach their strength unless you use real money.

but going back on original topic...

how hard is it to reach mr13 when you got plat to spend? DE wont lose money because a plat in your account means money ib their bank already.

just because you hated the mr lock means everyone hates it. you will still spend your plat on something or else all that plat is a waste of money.

 

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

1 hour ago, RacerDelux said:

That just goes to show how OP the tonkor is. It does crap tones of damage with little self damage.... Also with loadouts, your weapon is like 10% of what makes you viable in end game content ;).

-------------------------

To the argument that plat should bypass all mastery requirements. It has long been stated that spending money on warframe achieves two things: Fashionframe and "pay to accelerate". Notice that last word, "accelerate". Not "skip". By bypassing all MR requirements, warframe looses the p2a aspect. I fully agree that items should be MR locked. I actually would love to see them MR lock price access items too. (If you bought the pack, but are too low of MR, you simply can't use the weapon) 

 

Now, to the op - as was said before, it takes less than a week or two to hit MR5, at which point you can buy one of the most powerful weapons in the game. Instead of complaining go level up and get a tonkor. Done.

i think the prime access is to tempt new players to buy the items as veterans will simply grind it. new players wont have the gear to farm these items

paying money for something you cannot use right away is a bit problematic. 

now why you cannot buy an mr locked weapon? imagine spending plat and you cannot use the weapon. 

before tigris prime and galatine prime can be bought thru trade even if the mr is low, people cried scam when they discover it needs mr13 to use.

so to avoid confusion just lock the item in market until you can really use them.

 

[RistN]

On 10.10.2016. at 3:14 AM, Senketsu_ said:

because that would actually make the game Pay 2 Win

Some weapons are very good and OP but you still need mods and several forma on that weapon to make it what it really is.We can't upgrade gear by paying for it.

The most important thing in this game is that you need knowlage and experience.If you start this game from scratch with new account you would still be in large advantage over any new player using weapons that are MR restricted now.

Purchasing MR restricted weapons is no problem in my opinion.Let them if they want.In this game you can't pay to win.