Angry about the Index Event

[Casval_Rouge]

Enough of the "This is just a preview".  That doesn't excuse it from criticism, even if it wasn't written in the most objective and emotionless tone.  Warframe is technically in beta so why not just use that as an excuse and never give an negative opinion.

Look the simple fact is this is the same mistake as Focus as it was first introduced.  We got players fighting to get the most kills to get the most Focus points in a run, now we get the same all again.  DE repeats the same mistake and they should be criticized for it.  Don't let them get away with it, get them to fix it so we can all have a better game. 

Also saying just play Solo is also stupid, why not just don't play the game, problem solved.  Why not remove the game mode and event so there won't be any problem?    

[Acos]

I think criticism is exactly what DE wants. The point others in this topic are making is that it doesn't make sense to complain about something not being feature complete when the whole point of the preview is to gain criticism to make it better. There is a difference between feedback and whining. 

Edited October 22, 2016 by Acos

[arch111]

Given how Nef Anyo gives a official Tutorial, even if this is a preview to test it - like excavation and survival went through similar tests before being permanent - I very much doubt we can expect big changes. 

This IS competition - that's what being a Broker is about.

What I see is that the trend of competition is continuing. Conclave,  Lunaro, Rathuum and now the Index. Not that I am surprised, it suits Corpus to gamble for profit. And people have been asking for Gladiatorarenas for a while.

Personally I find these modes less interesting than the core gameplay.

But look at the big picture: now we have competition, raids, sport, deathmatch, ninja-stealth,  space and full on action. The result is a much more broad and varied game that suit more type of gamers!

 

[Doc-Orange]

2 hours ago, Casval_Rouge said:

Enough of the "This is just a preview".  That doesn't excuse it from criticism, even if it wasn't written in the most objective and emotionless tone.  Warframe is technically in beta so why not just use that as an excuse and never give an negative opinion.

Look the simple fact is this is the same mistake as Focus as it was first introduced.  We got players fighting to get the most kills to get the most Focus points in a run, now we get the same all again.  DE repeats the same mistake and they should be criticized for it.  Don't let them get away with it, get them to fix it so we can all have a better game. 

Also saying just play Solo is also stupid, why not just don't play the game, problem solved.  Why not remove the game mode and event so there won't be any problem?    

My problem is that I don't know ther intention behind these game decisions like these.

There are some possibilities:

1) They are strategy related - means intentionally. They had a very sucessfull cooperative overpowered horde shooter with repeating but fun gameplay. They changed much things and are facing the consequences of a massive player loss.

2) They are not intended: Then it's bad game design. Even without ever playing these changes, after a short thinking you can follow that this concept is an hidden PvE.

DE started with 20 to reach your goal, nomally 4 players and and a limit of 50. This means that only 2 of 4 players can reach their goal. So again, strategy or bad game design.

 

[Doc-Orange]

2 hours ago, arch111 said:

But look at the big picture: now we have competition, raids, sport, deathmatch, ninja-stealth,  space and full on action. The result is a much more broad and varied game that suit more type of gamers!

 

...and we have much less players. Every industry consultant give you an advice to focus to your core competencies.

[arch111]

14 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

...and we have much less players. Every industry consultant give you an advice to focus to your core competencies.

Don't you think those players are playing something totally different,  or Warframe just wasn't for them or they are waiting for War Within?

The core is still farming and collecting after all.

You could have a point in Warframe looking like it's trying to be to many things at once. The truth us that for new players they have to go through a ton of gameplay before they see things like us who have been here hundreds of hours.

[Wolfwaffe]

Personally, I'm angry that there's only one feasible frame for this mode. Inaros. He doesn't care about energy and is a tough slab of HP. Although, seeing how enemies are abilities-immune, healing is a concern.

[Iceheart125]

Fyi: I believe the new hot fix made it 2, 5, and 10 points, instead of 5, 10, and 20. Max score is 60 not 50 now, as well.

[Iceheart125]

1 hour ago, Wolfwaffe said:

Personally, I'm angry that there's only one feasible frame for this mode. Inaros. He doesn't care about energy and is a tough slab of HP. Although, seeing how enemies are abilities-immune, healing is a concern.

Er.... I was running it with frost, vauban, loki, and volt just fine?

[JumpStartFartHam]

First things first, it's good that this thread exists, because this is a test for how the actual event should be different from the concept, in the case that problems like these emerge. It was announced as a preview, and it is played like a preview. DE probably thought "Hey, how well is the team aspect of this going to work out? Let's do a test run". Having the full event launched the way it is now would have put the salt factory in full throttle, so this is a good call. Criticism is good.

Secondly, what is not good is blaming DE for how other people play. People are greedy? Oops. People don't play cooperatively? Whoopsie. Is that DE's fault? No. Now, I know the first thought towards that for a lot of people will be "But wait, letting the gamemode be this way is BAD GAME DESIGN". Sure, it could be improved to prevent this, and maybe that's the point of this preview. However, it is not only unfair, but also completely unhelpful towards solving this problem by yelling "DE, WHY ARE YOU MAKING OTHER PEOPLE BE MEAN". When you play in a public game, it is your agreement to play with other people. Other people play now they want to play, and some people play like jerks. Perhaps certain aspects of the game allow them to be jerks, such as when Limbo could banish other players with no escape, or how Ash is Kill Steal Simulator 2016. But guess what? Limbo.was patched, and Ash is being made to be less kill-steal-able. That is seeing a problem and fixing it. Sure, there are other issues similar to that which haven't been fixed, and hopefully they will be fixed, but the devs can only do so much.

To review: Criticism and feedback are good things, they're what will improve this game. Blaming your choice to play with other players and the fact that they don't play with the team on DE is ridiculous, and makes you sound like that guy who yells "It was rigged" any time he loses. Please, don't blame DE for what other people do. That's why we have this preview: To test how it will work, and to change it based on feedback. Hopefully this issue will be resolved in the full event.

Let your feedback be constructive, not whiny.

[Gildarts_bb]

13 hours ago, Doc-Orange said:

 

When DE wants to test/preview something perhaps they should establish a test server, but this was announced as a normal update and integrated in the game.

we are the test server.... everyone here signed the EULA which makes us beta testers 

[ravend]

13 hours ago, Doc-Orange said:

When DE wants to test/preview something perhaps they should establish a test server, but this was announced as a normal update and integrated in the game.

Keep in mind that we are the test server, this is still beta and chances can be made and dropped at anytime.

[PrVonTuckIII]

And this is why I soloed the entire thing.

[Doc-Orange]

Just now, PrVonTuckIII said:

And this is why I soloed the entire thing.

Yes, this is the consequence. I don't want to play solo, so I don't play this - less playing, less money.

I have a 50% off voucher. I was willing to buy the big package. Now I'll only buy the medium one. Don't know how long I will play this game.

[Tricky5hift]

Welcome to Wall Street.

Real talk now, has it ever occurred to you guys that this is intended?

The Index is clearly a nod to the investment world where people are driven by profit and sometimes greed to reach their goals of getting rich off other companies.

Of course other Tenno are going to competing against each other, thats what happens IRL. The map is even a PVP map so maybe stop treating it like PVE and be a little competitive for once.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Tricky5hift

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Yeah it's poorly designed the points/scoring system.

[FistingFRame]

13 hours ago, Doc-Orange said:

Hello,

I really fight with myself to use calm words about the new Index event. The only real enemy are the other Tennos. There is a constant run and steal for kills and index points. I thought WF is a game about cooperation against enemies not against other Tennos????

So my feedback is a very negative one. I won't play the event ever when it's not absolutly necessary.

I came back after a short break because of boredom and the lack of endgame. Now you lost me again.

 

Are u crazy,playng with team...omg...only solo bro...ooonly solo...otherwise u will end broke...

[KirukaChan]

41 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Welcome to Wall Street.

Real talk now, has it ever occurred to you guys that this is intended?

The Index is clearly a nod to the investment world where people are driven by profit and sometimes greed to reach their goals of getting rich off other companies.

Of course other Tenno are going to competing against each other, thats what happens IRL. The map is even a PVP map so maybe stop treating it like PVE and be a little competitive for once.

Even if it's "intended", if people don't like it, they have every right to say that they don't like it.

[Tricky5hift]

Just now, KirukaChan said:

Even if it's "intended", if people don't like it, they have every right to say that they don't like it.

If they don't like it, then don't play it.

The content DE makes isn't for everybody and you'd be foolish to think that everything they make should be fun for everybody.

[KirukaChan]

22 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

If they don't like it, then don't play it.

The content DE makes isn't for everybody and you'd be foolish to think that everything they make should be fun for everybody.

What would be foolish is if DE actually took that stance. They're a business and they need to make money in order to keep developing stuff for Warframe. The more players they keep happy, the more money they can potentially make. Based on the feedback I'm seeing so far, there seem to be far more players who dislike competition being part of a PvE mission than there are people who like it. Leaderboards and trophies are one thing, but those are just for bragging rights and don't have any real value to people who don't want to be competitive. If you bring rewards into it, though (specifically the potential to lose out on rewards based on the actions of other players) then the normally docile, non-competitive sort can get pretty caustic. Remember Shadow Debt?

Based on the following fix from Hotfix #3, "In an effort to reduce unfair competition within squads which could lead to griefing tactics, we have changed The Index Points required for each tier of Risk Investment wager to be 2/5/10," I'm inclined to believe that DE didn't intend for people to get screwed out of their rewards by allies. As soon as I found out that such a thing could happen in the first place, the first thing I started thinking about was which Frames I could use to actively sabotage allies (even just the Specter ones). That's not really the Tenno way, is it? Sure, Tenno will compete with one another on their own turf (Conclave, Lunaro), but this whole Index thing is supposed to be about us tossing Nef Anyo's little moneymaking scheme right back in his face while Darvo profits from the sidelines.

[Apkyc]

Don't play in random team, cooperate with your friends/clanmates.

[Tricky5hift]

1 minute ago, KirukaChan said:

What would be foolish is if DE actually took that stance. They're a business and they need to make money in order to keep developing stuff for Warframe. The more players they keep happy, the more money they can potentially make. Based on the feedback I'm seeing so far, there seem to be far more players who dislike competition being part of a PvE mission than there are people who like it. Leaderboards and trophies are one thing, but those are just for bragging rights and don't have any real value to people who don't want to be competitive. If you bring rewards into it, though (specifically the potential to lose out on rewards based on the actions of other players) then the normally docile, non-competitive sort can get pretty caustic. Remember Shadow Debt?

Based on the following fix from Hotfix #3, "In an effort to reduce unfair competition within squads which could lead to griefing tactics, we have changed The Index Points required for each tier of Risk Investment wager to be 2/5/10," I'm inclined to believe that DE didn't intend for people to get screwed out of their rewards by allies. As soon as I found out that such a thing could happen in the first place, the first thing I started thinking about was which Frames I could use to actively sabotage allies (even just the Specter ones). That's not really the Tenno way, is it? Sure, Tenno will compete with one another on their own turf (Conclave, Lunaro), but this whole Index thing is supposed to be about us tossing Nef Anyo's little moneymaking scheme right back in his face while Darvo profits from the sidelines.

There's a difference between making a game that makes money and making a game that is fun. This issue stems beyond the story of the game but the players themselves. After all, our Tenno personify who we are. There is nothing wrong with making co-op competitive. 

You're more than welcome to make a squad with people you can trust to not screw you over.

But outside of that, you can't expect people to no try and play a little dirty.

[JacketUnHoly]

.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Lluminate

[Tricky5hift]

9 minutes ago, infamouscycle said:

Co-op literally means cooperative...

Yeah should've reworded that.

What I meant to say was PvE can be competitive.

[Insizer]

Am I the only person who played the event in pug and isn't salty? Seriously, I had no issues with it. My only problems was my first match where someone let an enemy with 20 total points walk to their objective, and being oneshot.