Dev Stream 82: Endless Relic missions feedback

[PossiblyMG]

2 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

If you need an excuse/reason to play endless missions, it means you do not like the endless mode in the first place. Plain and simple.

Everybody needs to do things they don't like because they need resources, blueprints or whatnot. Ever heard of something called incentive?

Your first job is never something that you like to do. Does anybody love being a waiter? No, but you still do it because you need the money and the social experience.

Please try again

[I3jionaa]

Defence, survival, interception after one rotation, excavation after 2 rotations maintaint same rewards just add extra drops to drop tables with increased values: 400 endo now, make it possible to drop either 400 or 600. Same with credits drops. Aswell as with relics, add chance of relic beeing radiant.

After 2 rotations in defence, survival, interception & after 4 rotations in excavation make it 400 600 800 possible endo reward, etc. As for mod drops not sure. Note double rng should decide what drop is dropped, first its determined if its credits endo or relic, second determines if its 400 600 or 800. Futher rotations do not increase values anymore.

Add a small chance for double reward in non endless missions or relic beeing radiant.

Pretty simple, i agree we need more reasons to stay longer in missions, cause why the heck i even forma'ed anything.They gave us power, but not too many places to use it.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

19 minutes ago, Maseguad_il_Belo said:

Everybody needs to do things they don't like because they need resources, blueprints or whatnot. Ever heard of something called incentive?

Your first job is never something that you like to do. Does anybody love being a waiter? No, but you still do it because you need the money and the social experience.

Please try again

But why you post it here? I mean NOBODY push you to do endless mission now. You can go for one full rotation, or even get A-reward and extract. The only reason to do it now is game flow and just a fun/challenge.

I just can't get your logic. "In real life i have bad job, so i want to DE make long endless mission mandatory couse better reward?" WUT?

Edited November 1, 2016 by -JT-_-R3W1ND

[HalfDarkShadow]

5 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

But why you post it here? I mean NOBODY push you to do endless mission now. You can go for one full rotation, or even get A-reward and extract. The only reason to do it now is game flow and just a fun/challenge.

I just can't get your logic. "In real life i have bad job, so i want to DE make long endless mission mandatory couse better reward?" WUT?

I'm a bit with you on that lol.

I mean this isn't a job....it's a video game. You play because you want to lol. No one has a gun to your head, ya' know?

[PossiblyMG]

5 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

But why you post it here? I mean NOBODY push you to do endless mission now. You can go for one full rotation, or even get A-reward and extract. The only reason to do it now is game flow and just a fun/challenge.

I just can't get your logic. "In real life i have bad job, so i want to DE make long endless mission mandatory couse better reward?" WUT?

I can't tell if you're trolling or if you can't understand metaphors and analogies because obviously you've taken 2 different discussions and combined them without thinking about it. If there's a bug in the game, what do you do? You report it. If there's a feature that many people don't enjoy, what do you do? You give a suggestion or share your opinion on the matter.

You just proved to me that endless missions are dead, because your first thought was a finite mission where you should extract early. Is that truly challenging? That's the same as a sortie/alert/invasion """endless""", not what endless missions are truly supposed to be. Warframe doesn't give you any special emotion for beating a challenge. Most people could easily solo a survival for hours, or even infinity with cheese frames, but what's the point? You aren't recognized for anything, and you don't feel rewarded/recognized for your personal achievements. 

 

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

-if you can remove my thread I see no need to fuel yours-

Edited November 1, 2016 by RoboticApplesWithLasers

[Calwon5]

1 minute ago, Maseguad_il_Belo said:

I can't tell if you're trolling or if you can't understand metaphors and analogies because obviously you've taken 2 different discussions and combined them without thinking about it. If there's a bug in the game, what do you do? You report it. If there's a feature that many people don't enjoy, what do you do? You give a suggestion or share your opinion on the matter.

You just proved to me that endless missions are dead, because your first thought was a finite mission where you should extract early. Is that truly challenging? That's the same as a sortie/alert/invasion """endless""", not what endless missions are truly supposed to be. Warframe doesn't give you any special emotion for beating a challenge. Most people could easily solo a survival for hours, or even infinity with cheese frames, but what's the point? You aren't recognized for anything, and you don't feel rewarded/recognized for your personal achievements. 

 

Exactly.

Gotta love it when a player says you can still play endless mission.  Except the mission doesn't reward you. There's no point in doing them beside getting exp which is not worth my time. I want to do something that will reward me for it like sorties. It's not that we don't like doing endless missions, it's just not rewarding to do it for a long duration. 

[(PSN)joshw1400]

Do you think the prime parts could drop from the excavators? As for survival, I'm really concerned if they have us stop every 5 min or 20 min, because that could get annoying.

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

On ‎28‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 7:27 PM, tbeest said:

 

 

  Hide contents

 

There has to be some sort of benefit to make endless worth it.

 

Yes. Fun. Challenge. If you only play missions for the rewards and not for fun then there's no point in you calling Warframe a game since we know what the purpose of a game is. To be fun. To entertain. After void 2.0 and I got bored of my endless endo grind I decided to play void survival just for fun. It was a nice change. I didn't get prime items or anything worthwhile but it was fun. And because it was fun I'm going to play it again. Just not soon because my LB button is broke which is the main move button in WF RIP.

[tbeest]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)LAZYNOOB2015 said:

Yes. Fun. Challenge. If you only play missions for the rewards and not for fun then there's no point in you calling Warframe a game since we know what the purpose of a game is. To be fun. To entertain. After void 2.0 and I got bored of my endless endo grind I decided to play void survival just for fun. It was a nice change. I didn't get prime items or anything worthwhile but it was fun. And because it was fun I'm going to play it again. Just not soon because my LB button is broke which is the main move button in WF RIP.

I do like some motivation in my game. What I was trying to get at and what got kind of deluded was that I want more drops per single relic. Don't get me wrong, I like doing random survival missions but I am not a huge fan of farming for relics which'll probably not be the ones I need in first place.

Edited November 1, 2016 by tbeest
t-t-t-typos

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

39 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

But why you post it here? I mean NOBODY push you to do endless mission now. You can go for one full rotation, or even get A-reward and extract. The only reason to do it now is game flow and just a fun/challenge.

I just can't get your logic. "In real life i have bad job, so i want to DE make long endless mission mandatory couse better reward?" WUT?

Exactly. If good rewards are your only motivation then why do you want them to make you play it by bribing you with good rewards?

I play missions I want to play. Not because it has good rewards (well partly that) but because I'm enjoying myself.

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

5 minutes ago, tbeest said:

I do like some motivation in my game. What I was trying to get at and what got kind of deluded was that I want more drops per single relic. Don't get me wrong, I like doing random survival missions but I am not a huge fan of farming for relics which'll probably not be the ones I need in first place.

I understand what you mean and I like the idea of switching relics every rotation.

TIP: Switch it up and do syndicate missions for fun and use standing to purchase relic packs.

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

36 minutes ago, Calwon5 said:

Exactly.

Gotta love it when a player says you can still play endless mission.  Except the mission doesn't reward you. There's no point in doing them beside getting exp which is not worth my time. I want to do something that will reward me for it like sorties. It's not that we don't like doing endless missions, it's just not rewarding to do it for a long duration. 

I once played a t4 survival with my friend and we battled it out 'till 40 mins and it was challenging and fun and when I feel like I'll do it again. I don't need to get Mag or Rhino Prime or 400 Endo to have fun.

[tbeest]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)LAZYNOOB2015 said:

I understand what you mean and I like the idea of switching relics every rotation.

TIP: Switch it up and do syndicate missions for fun and use standing to purchase relic packs.

When I do syndicate missions I get paranoid about medallions and stuff and it just makes it worse, but I guess that's a problem of my own.

What I do for fun is staring at the recruiting channel until I see someone that doesn't want to do a Vault/Bere/Akkad/Relic mission.

[EvilChaosKnight]

1 hour ago, (XB1)LAZYNOOB2015 said:

Exactly. If good rewards are your only motivation then why do you want them to make you play it by bribing you with good rewards?

Because separating Fun and Rewarding is a recipe for disaster in the game which is all about collecting and farming IMO.

If I am collecting %prime set% I want to have fun doing so. At least for the first 2-3 hours.

[TheScytale]

@Maseguad_il_Belo Since you are talking about normal endless missions, and not fissures, your argument about incentive completely backfired.

If you only take normal missions (not sorties, fissures, etc) into consideration, we need incentive not to run endless missions. They provide more resources, they're a better way to farm endo, and a better way to farm relics than any other normal mission type. Some can even be considered a good xp farm and/or a good credit farm. What do exterminate missions have? Sabotage? Mobile defense? Capture? Why would you run these missions over a survival or interception for example?

The only mission type that is borderline rival to endless ones is spy, as it has some unique drops tied to it, and a decent xp reward if you're stealthy enough. 

 

Also, as others have pointed out, this is not a job. You should not be forced to do something if you want a reward. You're basically asking for something (something that you don't usually like) to be forced on you in order to have better rewards. 

[TheScytale]

50 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Because separating Fun and Rewarding is a recipe for disaster in the game which is all about collecting and farming IMO.

If I am collecting %prime set% I want to have fun doing so. At least for the first 2-3 hours.

What is fun to you may not be fun to another player. If endless consumed only one relic, we'll go back to the whole void fatigue problem again. Everyone would only play endless because it will be the most efficient way to get items. With the change they're bringing, you can have fun going to wave 40 while at the same time someone else has fun doing sabotage or spy missions. None of you is forced into playing a specific game mode, none of you has any advantage over the other.

[Fast_98]

Depends on how it implemented. A possible solution is that radiants can only be used in non endless and only 1 normal relic can only be used in endless (pretty much both void 1 and 2 together). Plus from what I remember people did non endless void runs all the time back in the day and also rewards were usually constricted into 1 game mode back then ( everything good was in T3S). The new system allow any relic to be used in any game mode.

[Fast_98]

1 hour ago, TheScytale said:

What is fun to you may not be fun to another player. If endless consumed only one relic, we'll go back to the whole void fatigue problem again. Everyone would only play endless because it will be the most efficient way to get items. With the change they're bringing, you can have fun going to wave 40 while at the same time someone else has fun doing sabotage or spy missions. None of you is forced into playing a specific game mode, none of you has any advantage over the other.

However the current system and system DE suggested is unbalanced.Capture and exterminates will remain supreme while the endless mission will just collect dust.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Fast_98

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I'm really happy endless is coming back, and I feel getting more void traces is a step in the right direction.

I do think the system would be even better if there was a % increased in void drop quality with every successful round. Like for example, every five minutes, you get a bonus 0.2% / 1% chance of rarer void drops when using a relic (Percent varies depending of void tier, with 1% being the T4 percentage and .2 being the T1 percentage) .... Think of it as a % increase that's added on top of the existing probabilities of getting rarer prime parts ... It doesn't replace the void traces, it goes on top of it , basically.

This would allow two interesting types of scenarios.. Someone that doesn't want to farm traces could try to go as long as possible, in hopes of turning a series of regular relics into pseudo-radiants after enough % increased occur... Would be the ideal situation for regular ducat and part farming, since with enough time, even a "bad" relic could yield good drops for a team that can stay alive for long.

The other scenario would be people really wanting to maximise their probabilties of getting a specific rare item from radiants and other upgraded relics ... In that case, said party could decide beforehand to stay for 80 minutes in T4 survival before popping their Radiant Relic, which would in turn give them a 16% increased quality on their relics, in effect make it much more likely to drop the rare part they were looking for. All in all, it would motivate people to find groups that can handle long bouts of endless missions, would promote strategic usage of the right relic at the right tier, at the right moment, and would improve the void system tremendously.

------------------------------------------------------------------

That said, I think regardless of whether my suggestion is implement, the system desperatly needs a way for people to individually decide if they want to extract or not in survival. It kinda sucks in endless scenarios like survival, when you and your friend want to stay and try to go for 80 minutes and some people force extraction for the whole team, in effect screwing your run.

Ideally, you should be able to refuse extraction. Just like you can stay in defense even if three of your teammates want to leave. Make this happen before the new void reworks and I'll be really happy. Auto matchmaking demands this imho, since random individuals have different goals !

Edited November 1, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

4 hours ago, tbeest said:

When I do syndicate missions I get paranoid about medallions and stuff and it just makes it worse, but I guess that's a problem of my own.

What I do for fun is staring at the recruiting channel until I see someone that doesn't want to do a Vault/Bere/Akkad/Relic mission.

Bere?

[TheScytale]

38 minutes ago, Fast_98 said:

However the current system and system DE suggested is unbalanced.Capture and exterminates will remain supreme while the endless mission will just collect dust.

What I'm saying is that this implementation provides choice. You can choose between boring efficient easy short runs or long "endgame" endless runs.

Pre-SotR, people rarely played void exterminate, capture or MD. Not if they didn't need a specific part anyway. They only played endless because endless was objectively better than the rest, because it gave infinitely more rewards than other mission types that only yield 1 prime part, or 2 at best. If the system gets changed to what you suggest, everyone would just do endless because you do not need to spend X relics for X rewards, but only one. This will screw up with the market price of common/uncommon parts (back to 1p again) and with their ducat value. 

The only advantage I think would be okay is giving more traces the more you stay, +x max traces per rotation. Capped of course, to give an incentive for playing challenging stuff, not cheesing it. 

Just now, (XB1)LAZYNOOB2015 said:

Bere?

Berehynia, Sedna. Basically today's Draco.

Edited November 1, 2016 by TheScytale

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

2 hours ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Because separating Fun and Rewarding is a recipe for disaster in the game which is all about collecting and farming IMO.

If I am collecting %prime set% I want to have fun doing so. At least for the first 2-3 hours.

Yes but people complain about void not having endless missions when the fact is it does but you play it for fun now instead of for the prime parts.

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

3 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

What I'm saying is that this implementation provides choice. You can choose between boring efficient easy short runs or long "endgame" endless runs.

Pre-SotR, people rarely played void exterminate, capture or MD. Not if they didn't need a specific part anyway. They only played endless because endless was objectively better than the rest, because it gave infinitely more rewards than other mission types that only yield 1 prime part, or 2 at best. If the system gets changed to what you suggest, everyone would just do endless because you do not need to spend X relics for X rewards, but only one. This will screw up with the market price of common/uncommon parts (back to 1p again) and with their ducat value. 

The only advantage I think would be okay is giving more traces the more you stay, +x max traces per rotation. Capped of course, to give an incentive for playing challenging stuff, not cheesing it. 

Berehynia, Sedna. Basically today's Draco.

Ahh. I never did draco for XP. Back when I was leveling my current loadout I did Jupiter DS Survival before the Star chart rework.

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

1 hour ago, TheScytale said:

@Maseguad_il_Belo Since you are talking about normal endless missions, and not fissures, your argument about incentive completely backfired.

If you only take normal missions (not sorties, fissures, etc) into consideration, we need incentive not to run endless missions. They provide more resources, they're a better way to farm endo, and a better way to farm relics than any other normal mission type. Some can even be considered a good xp farm and/or a good credit farm. What do exterminate missions have? Sabotage? Mobile defense? Capture? Why would you run these missions over a survival or interception for example?

The only mission type that is borderline rival to endless ones is spy, as it has some unique drops tied to it, and a decent xp reward if you're stealthy enough. 

 

Also, as others have pointed out, this is not a job. You should not be forced to do something if you want a reward. You're basically asking for something (something that you don't usually like) to be forced on you in order to have better rewards. 

My point exactly.

P.S. As a means of getting stuff done survival is obviously better but I enjoyed playing Defense on Pluto that one time after 100+ DS Survival endo farms on Sedna. I'll still play defense for fun either way but I mean seriously DE. Can we atleast have a tier system for defense. I mean c'mon. I get a Vitality for Earth defense and a Vitality for Pluto defense. I'm not asking for 400-500 endo here but seriously.