Dead classed as AFK

[DarkOvion]

It wouldn't be difficult to have a layered system.

i.e.

Each second (or 10 seconds if it's prefered) you're moving, killing, using powers, interacting with objects, is an 'active point'.

1 consecutive minute with no input (not just moving, input like above) = shut off active and passive powers.

At the end of the match, if say... 51% of the time marker is 'active', you qualify for the EoM rewards.

This stops people deliberately dying at the start to ride, it stops people just AFKing, but if you've participated then dye right near the end, you would still receive the rewards for your effort.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The obvious solution would be to just auto-revive anyone that is dead for "x" number of minutes but out of revives (not counting sorties or raids). Basically, if you die, you can revive instantly with a revive, or after "x" number of minutes if your team manages to survive. 

Obviously, you can still fail if your team gets wiped, and the auto revive system should be long enough to be a punishment, but short enough to be under the limits for the AFK system.

[(PSN)PickedaName]

Wait that's what happened to me? I remember running a NM alert for Blaze way back in the day when I didn't even know what a NM mission was. It was a spy and I got 2 of the data extractions, while waiting for my teammates to finish the last extraction I died (back when we had a daily limit) and couldn't revive. It took them like 5 minutes to finish and get to extraction and then I didn't get Blaze. I thought it was because I didn't get to extraction that I didn't get the mission reward, not because I was considered afk..

I was so salty when it happened and finding out it was because of an afk system when I had no choice is just reviving that salt. I DID 2/3'S OF THE MISSION'S CHALLENGES SOLO, MY FRAME WAS OUT OF REVIVES, AND I WAS TYPING TO MY TEAMMATES WHILE DEAD. OBVIOUSLY I WASN'T LEECHING.

SAAAAAAAAAAALT

[(PSN)PickedaName]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

right, so people then participate a bit and commit suicide and leech for most of a Mission.

it's as it is with good reason. and those that would like to complain about it, don't have a better solution that still prevents the abusiveness it exists to prevent, while achieving their goal.

those that lack that experience, for some reason won't remember that before things worked that way, instead you'd have a Player that commits suicide or puts in very little effort in the Mission, and then spends most of the Mission dead, AFK.
because it doesn't matter if they're looking at their screen or not, they're AFK. because they aren't participating.

Game Design is more complex than people think.

Mission death time/Mission end time >= 80% = EoMR 

Tada. Does what the current system does but inhibits 'misfires' in fringe scenarios.

Things don't have to be complicated to be improved.

Edited November 8, 2016 by (PS4)PickedaName

[DarkOvion]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

The obvious solution would be to just auto-revive anyone that is dead for "x" number of minutes but out of revives (not counting sorties or raids). Basically, if you die, you can revive instantly with a revive, or after "x" number of minutes if your team manages to survive. 

Obviously, you can still fail if your team gets wiped, and the auto revive system should be long enough to be a punishment, but short enough to be under the limits for the AFK system.

The AFK timer is 60 seconds.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

5 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

The AFK timer is 60 seconds.

It should be extended then.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, (PS4)PickedaName said:

Tada. Does what the current system does but inhibits 'misfires' in fringe scenarios.

doesn't prevent abuse. 

1 hour ago, DarkOvion said:

The AFK timer is 60 seconds.

(120 seconds, give or take)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

It should be extended then.

Possible solution: 

Give the host the option for an AFK warning. The host submits an in-game request that the spesific player is AFK. This AFK warning can only be initiated by a DE bot. The specific player must then complete a set criteria for example 5 kills in 30 seconds. If the AFK player completes the requirement but AFK again, the criteria goes up for example 10 kills in 30 seconds.

The criteria must consider the enemy level and adjust accordingly.

However, this option is open for abuse.

I do not know if this is at all possible though.

[Liminal]

On 8/11/2016 at 2:30 PM, taiiat said:

right, so people then participate a bit and commit suicide and leech for most of a Mission.

it's as it is with good reason. and those that would like to complain about it, don't have a better solution that still prevents the abusiveness it exists to prevent, while achieving their goal.

those that lack that experience, for some reason won't remember that before things worked that way, instead you'd have a Player that commits suicide or puts in very little effort in the Mission, and then spends most of the Mission dead, AFK.
because it doesn't matter if they're looking at their screen or not, they're AFK. because they aren't participating.

Game Design is more complex than people think.

It's not rocket science either. We're not talking about ambiguous values: it's not about participating "a bit", it's about participating a lot. If that limbo hacked 2 spy vaults, revived teammates 13 times and then got finally killed while reviving someone for the 14th time, the player should get the rewards even if the other slow-&#! players take 5 minutes to finish the mission. Also a commend/report system helps with this, it's used to detect common offenders and abusers so you can ease up a bit on the automatic detection. A vote kick system also helps with leechers (and the report feature helps cut down on kick abuse). And I'm not a visionary, these things have been proposed a million times.

I like WF and I think DE does things quite nicely, but their game undoubtedly lacks certain tools that would make the game a better experience: a system to handle afk players that minimizes unfair punishment on legit players is one of them.

[taiiat]

48 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

if a Player contributed the player should get the rewards even if the other players take 5 minutes to finish the mission.

not if they go AFK.
there is no good reason to incentivize Players to go AFK during a Mission. they do it enough as it is ex. complete Mission Objective and then go AFK in Extraction. if they end up being marked AFK that is their own fault. Et Cetera.

'just incentivize Players to go AFK for that 1/200 occurrence that it helps someone from having a sadface experience' isn't really a compelling argument.

[Liminal]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

not if they go AFK.
there is no good reason to incentivize Players to go AFK during a Mission. they do it enough as it is ex. complete Mission Objective and then go AFK in Extraction. if they end up being marked AFK that is their own fault. Et Cetera.

'just incentivize Players to go AFK for that 1/200 occurrence that it helps someone from having a sadface experience' isn't really a compelling argument.

How is it "incentivizing them to go afk" when the dude actually played a lot? The player contributed. Someone who does that doesn't suicide just for fun. And I did post a couple of ideas that would help make it fair and a bit more bulletproof, but sure it's easier to say someone getting screwed over is just too rare so they should just suck it up.

The current anti-AFK system can be improved and there are ways to make it so, copying systems that exist in other games. If players AFKing is a big enough concern, then making sure players get the stuff they work for should be as well.

[Flustershy]

Well.... This subject is a 2 barrel shotgun....

You see the Afk system activating when you have no revives is a bad thing in its self, but imagine if its removed.

Someone who is lazy joins into a mission, he has a explosive weapon and self kills himself away from teamates, he bleeds out and is dead and waits for his team mates to finish the mission, if the Afk penalty would have not been applied the guy would have gotten the mission reward while being ''dead''

You see my point i'm trying to make here ?

Edited November 10, 2016 by Flustershy

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

You know they already track a lot of statistics. They could use those to check whether a player contributed or not. 

Is player alive?

Yes:

--have they fired/moved in the last 5 minutes?

----Yes: they are not AFK

----No: they are AFK

 

No:

--do they have revives left?

----yes:

--------Have they been dead for 5 minutes?

------------Yes: They are AFK

------------No: 

---------------- do their end of mission results show significant contribution?

--------------------No: they are AFK after 5 minutes

--------------------Yes: they are not AFK

 

It's not rocket surgery here.

    

Edited November 10, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[PETI258]

I did the Ayatan treasure with a friend of mine and he get called just before we entered.
I did the mission pretty fast and he was afk the hole time like 3-4 mins result was that he was completed that week Treasure mission but getting 0 rewards.

Honestly I would go and delete that from the game because most of the runs you have to be in 50m from teammates to even get affinity so you kind of have to move and that resets the timer anyway.

[EvilChaosKnight]

It's very simple to program such things by machine logic really.

If player idle time >= 120 seconds
and
If player_damage < team_damage/player_count
then
Apply AFK penalty

Doesn't even need to check for dead.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 minutes ago, PETI258 said:

I did the Ayatan treasure with a friend of mine and he get called just before we entered.
I did the mission pretty fast and he was afk the hole time like 3-4 mins result was that he was completed that week Treasure mission but getting 0 rewards.

Honestly I would go and delete that from the game because most of the runs you have to be in 50m from teammates to even get affinity so you kind of have to move and that resets the timer anyway.

I wasted like 45 minutes of someone's time doing something similar to that. I was hosting a DS survival mission. We got to about 45 minutes, and a random volt that joined started going down like crazy. My friend went down too.

I just told my friend to stay down and rushed to extraction, as Nova,for the random's benefit. Right before we extracted, the random revived and was just shooting things outside of extraction, and refused to enter it. (He was trying to get free affinity while running out the timer). As a result, I left extraction, my friend revived, the volt died multiple times again, now in extraction, and we just kept playing for another 5 minutes without even bothering to try to rez. 

AFAIK, that guy ended up getting nothing for the run because of the current system.

[Demon.King]

On 08/11/2016 at 3:40 PM, Tsukinoki said:

Because of that DE takes the safe route: If you are dead longer than 2 minutes you don't get rewards.  Sure it can screw over people who were actually participating, but it completely stops the people who would self suicide early on and get the rewards for the mission.

The current system apparently completely fails at that too. People sometimes just play a couple of minutes, suicide, then revive towards the end and apparently get the reward...

[Shockwave-]

No offense but if you died all 4 times and revived then stop whining. You weren't good enough to do the mission. It's that simple. There are no trophy's for participation. You were dead with no revives at the end of the mission you shouldn't get the reward even if it was 1 second you were dead. That's called failing the mission. You at least get 60 seconds for your team to end it and still get rewarded.

4 revives is already too many. I mean when is the last time you actually failed a mission? The game is so easy you should never use up 4 revives and if you are then you are doing content that is too hard for you before you have the skill/mods/frames to do it.

I'm all for forced revives after 10 seconds (no staying dead in missions letting other people do the mission then reviving at the end to get the reward). If the force revive triggers without revives left you fail the mission even if you are 2 inches from the exit.

This game needs some actual fail conditions.

[DarkOvion]

34 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

No offense but if you died all 4 times and revived then stop whining. You weren't good enough to do the mission. It's that simple. There are no trophy's for participation. You were dead with no revives at the end of the mission you shouldn't get the reward even if it was 1 second you were dead. That's called failing the mission. You at least get 60 seconds for your team to end it and still get rewarded.

4 revives is already too many. I mean when is the last time you actually failed a mission? The game is so easy you should never use up 4 revives and if you are then you are doing content that is too hard for you before you have the skill/mods/frames to do it.

I'm all for forced revives after 10 seconds (no staying dead in missions letting other people do the mission then reviving at the end to get the reward). If the force revive triggers without revives left you fail the mission even if you are 2 inches from the exit.

This game needs some actual fail conditions.

"No Offense, but if you actually play the game, or help your team mates and go down due to one shots, especially in game modes that are harsh, then screw you even if you spent an hour+ on a mission".

No offense, but that's a toxic attitude to a team game.

 

[Shockwave-]

4 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

"No Offense, but if you actually play the game, or help your team mates and go down due to one shots, especially in game modes that are harsh, then screw you even if you spent an hour+ on a mission".

No offense, but that's a toxic attitude to a team game.

 

No, but if you have 4 revives, then you should leave the hour plus mission after using up 2 or 3, so you make sure you don't use them all. Dying should start to make you think it's time to leave in long endless missions. You actually shouldn't be able to just go until you die.... it should be a choice of "do I push it and lose or leave now", not just go till your dead and one guy gets out.