Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[Mak_Gohae]

33 minutes ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Instead of Click baiting us for cheap views, why not tell us here?

That's not click bait, the video IS about a possible easy lore fix to explain Valk P's look.

I dont consider fellow posters here "cheap views" I value most of their discussions.

And i am telling you here, in a video.

[Yrveth]

42 minutes ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

there is a Ballas lore video coming soon. We can all stop with the theories. just saying 

Well the discussion did die down once we learned that. Imagine if we were told so from the very beginning!

[DoppelShifter]

10 minutes ago, Belgard said:

Well the discussion did die down once we learned that. Imagine if we were told so from the very beginning!

Though while theories died down (and I'm glad they did, because a lot of them were starting to create more lore breaches than actually fixing them), the uproar about the design origins (for those who are dissatisfied or discontented, at least) could and should continue.

After all, DE shapes this game around their community. If they see that they released a prime, after taking the hard decision (as they mentioned) to go for Vanilla instead of Gersemi AND abandoning the idea of making a Gersemi Prime skin (which they also commented on), and that this created such an uproar in the community, they would either put more thought on those decisions, tailor them better to what the community wants or even just plain take their time to fix the situation.

I mean, if they fix lore-inconsistent weapons on their own and make adjustments to old maps and old content that a lot of players had forgotten about, what to say about a warframe that's loved by many players, a lot of people would love to see in a Gersemi Prime skin AND would be willing to pay plat for it (since modeling a new deluxe skin is hard)?

So while making wild lore discussions about something that's already coming is kind of... waste of time, of sorts... the uproar about Valkyr's design (one of the origins of this thread) is not; and this shouldn't fall on deaf ears.

Those special edition Valkyr figures won't sell themselves, specially if your most diehard Valkyr fans end up disappointed.

Edited November 24, 2016 by DoppelShifter

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Alad experimented on a Valkyr Prime as well as a regular Valkyr. Boom.

[Yrveth]

1 minute ago, DoppelShifter said:

the uproar about the design origins (for those who are dissatisfied or discontented, at least) could and should continue

It should, but will it? The Ballas Trailer will be the final word on the matter. Continuing afterwards sounds pointless and exhausting.

And yet that Trailer can't make everything right. Even if it justifies the design choices, the subtle implications of the initial Valkyr lore would still be destroyed.

[DoppelShifter]

3 minutes ago, Belgard said:

It should, but will it? The Ballas Trailer will be the final word on the matter. Continuing afterwards sounds pointless and exhausting.

And yet that Trailer can't make everything right. Even if it justifies the design choices, the subtle implications of the initial Valkyr lore would still be destroyed.

That's why I'm saying we shouldn't just be silent after this. If there's something weird, wrong, dissonant or just flat out discontenting (considering the whole Gersemi skin was one of the highest points for Valkyr players; only for it to be smashed with the launch of Valkyr Prime following the mangled design), I think we should continuing voicing that.

Otherwise, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Oh, nothing will be done about it, it's pointless to keep talking about it".

The moment we stop talking and voicing our opinions is the moment where everything will indeed be pointless and nothing will be done about it.

Edited November 24, 2016 by DoppelShifter

[ChaoSoldier1986]

1 minute ago, DoppelShifter said:

That's why I'm saying we shouldn't just be silent after this. If there's something weird, wrong, dissonant or just flat out discontenting (considering the whole Gersemi skin was one of the highest points for Valkyr players; only for it to be smashed with the launch of Valkyr Prime following the mangled design), I think we should continuing voicing that.

Otherwise, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Oh, nothing will be done about it, it's pointless to keep talking about it".

The moment we stop talking and voicing our opinions is the moment where everything will indeed be pointless and nothing will be done about it.

I just want her Gersemni Tail Back and to get rid of the Gold Pacifier

[Yrveth]

6 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

The moment we stop talking and voicing our opinions is the moment where everything will indeed be pointless and nothing will be made.

Well, I am sorry for being defeatist but frankly I don't see them changing the Prime's design, both because they already put work into it and because, I suspect, between Gersemi and Valkyr, more people are fond of Valkyr's design. The easiest to change are those little text blurbs that suggest the Valkyr warframe to be, in some capacity, the work of Alad V. What, then, would we be vocal about? An apology? Seems a bit out there.

[DoppelShifter]

25 minutes ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

I just want her Gersemni Tail Back and to get rid of the Gold Pacifier

I would go further and want:

- The tail (instead of that golden stub)
- The winglets ("valkyrie", remember?)
- The armor plating in place (why the heck did they model her legs after the armor-stripped Mangled version, down to gilded details to mimick the "attachments" that Alad V put there, instead of using properly armored legs, like the Gersemi has?)
- The pseudo-digitigrade feet (feline motif, after all)
- The properly armored shoulder plates (instead of gilded versions of the armor-stripped shoulder plates from the Mangled Valkyr)

...But that's too much for "a small set of modifications", thus the suggestion of a Gersemi Prime, sold at the marked and bought with plat. I'd be more than happy to buy it.

...But all we can wait for now is wait and voice discontent, specially until the Lore Trailer and the Codex come with some answers.

Edited November 24, 2016 by DoppelShifter
typos

[arch111]

I am still most surprised at the absence of tail or wings. 

First I really liked the Prime. Then I started looking at it closely. There is a reason valkyr have her spine exposed and a plate with a missing tail. Something is supposed to be there.

The wings was a nod to the valhalla angels, the tail a nod to valkitty.

Energy wings,  a tail and energy-blades. That was on my Wish list.

[DoppelShifter]

1 minute ago, arch111 said:

Energy wings,  a tail and energy-blades. That was on my Wish list.

That's the thing: if her armor was a bit smoother (and without the very lore-breaking allusions to Alad V experiments) and if the tail and winglets appeared during Hysteria, that would already be awesome.

But instead we have this. And while the Gersemi Prime idea was even considered (as DE_Steve tweeted), the idea eventually died. 
It's time for the community to cry out and say "c'mon, we WANTED that, and we're willing to pay the plat for it. Gimme pls."

[ChaoSoldier1986]

1 minute ago, DoppelShifter said:

That's the thing: if her armor was a bit smoother (and without the very lore-breaking allusions to Alad V experiments) and if the tail and winglets appeared during Hysteria, that would already be awesome.

But instead we have this. And while the Gersemi Prime idea was even considered (as DE_Steve tweeted), the idea eventually died. 
It's time for the community to cry out and say "c'mon, we WANTED that, and we're willing to pay the plat for it. Gimme pls."

Like I said earlier in the topic Why not make her Hysteria Claws pop out of her "Orokin Gauntlets" that way Valkyr Prime would seem like the Prototype to the Normal Gersemni Valkyr which had the Claws pop from her Finger tips?

[DoppelShifter]

3 minutes ago, ChaoSoldier1986 said:

Like I said earlier in the topic Why not make her Hysteria Claws pop out of her "Orokin Gauntlets" that way Valkyr Prime would seem like the Prototype to the Normal Gersemni Valkyr which had the Claws pop from her Finger tips?

I think the problem here is animation. Prime, Gersemi and Normal have to share the very same animation set. Stuff can be added (like the vector thrusters on Nova), but not "changed". So the only way I see that working is that if her hand stays the same, but without the energy claws (thus preserving the basic animation across all skins), and the actual energy claws are an additional animation popping out of her gauntlets (which is natural for a Prime, where some additional bits sometimes get extra animation, like Nova and Rhino).

[Velothed]

On 18.11.2016 at 6:56 PM, AM-Bunny said:

Perhaps Valkyr Prime was restrained with bonds and tortured by The Orokin.

It would be sort of a poetic irony, full-circle kind of story.

I love that Idea! That's my new head-cannon^^

 

[ChaoSoldier1986]

44 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

I think the problem here is animation. Prime, Gersemi and Normal have to share the very same animation set. Stuff can be added (like the vector thrusters on Nova), but not "changed". So the only way I see that working is that if her hand stays the same, but without the energy claws (thus preserving the basic animation across all skins), and the actual energy claws are an additional animation popping out of her gauntlets (which is natural for a Prime, where some additional bits sometimes get extra animation, like Nova and Rhino).

Well I just said that as a "Lore compromise" Between Us and DE. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by ChaoSoldier1986
Wrong quote

[arch111]

Claws. Or this

This was.my want. I will take good claws too. But this is cooler.

[ChaoSoldier1986]

2 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Claws. Or this

This was.my want. I will take good claws too. But this is cooler.

In a way that was the point I was trying to get across but it would be "Claw-esque"

[RunningTree3]

omg.

alternate hypothesis:

Gersemi is the original, was stripped down to become Valkyr. Then...

The Void saw Valkyr and said it was good. So The Void created prime parts out of Valkyr, placed them in the Orokin Relics throughout the Eras. One of those Eras coincided with the time when the warframes were first being designed. The builders just thought their Orokin upper management had sent them new parts for a new frame. And that's how Valkyr Prime entered the Old War.

*breaks everything*

[Stoner]

8 hours ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Oh my god I stopped following this topic after 50 replies. NOW LOOK AT IT ._.

Haha, well i guess you have some reading to do, eh?

 

[BrazilianJoe]

Humm

 

Alad V is Orokin and knew about several designs, he has meddled with at least Valkyr and Mesa. Valkyr had the original layout back then, and the Gersemi visual showed up in that age as well.

THe cache of deactivated Valkyrs he found happened to be Gersemi, he just skinned a bunch of Valkyrs off their Gersemi Skins to make a bunch of Zanukas. Lacking the proper technology he broke the helmet a little bit but that's it. Players scavenge the parts off the boss battle without the Gersemi flavor because the stripped them all - the ones he has, which are not the totality of them.

He still managed to build his puppet robodog with Tenno powers.

Valkyr is the original layout, Gersemi is fashion frame since the Orokin Era (before it was available for purchase by players).

Later, the Gersemi alternative layout was restored and we can now buy it.

Ergo, Valkyr Prime is based off the original layout.

The Corpus boxes are just enclosing the real thingamabobs in Valkyr's arms, we never got to see them on the original Valkyr, it's where she stores her rip line. Alad was trying to contain her powers with that boxes. That's why the Prime version also has boxes.

Boring but plausible. 

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

5 minutes ago, -TP-BrazilianJoe said:

Humm

 

Alad V is Orokin and knew about several designs, he has meddled with at least Valkyr and Mesa. Valkyr had the original layout back then, and the Gersemi visual showed up in that age as well.

THe cache of deactivated Valkyrs he found happened to be Gersemi, he just skinned a bunch of Valkyrs off their Gersemi Skins to make a bunch of Zanukas. Lacking the proper technology he broke the helmet a little bit but that's it. Players scavenge the parts off the boss battle without the Gersemi flavor because the stripped them all - the ones he has, which are not the totality of them.

He still managed to build his puppet robodog with Tenno powers.

Valkyr is the original layout, Gersemi is fashion frame since the Orokin Era (before it was available for purchase by players).

Later, the Gersemi alternative layout was restored and we can now buy it.

Ergo, Valkyr Prime is based off the original layout.

The Corpus boxes are just enclosing the real thingamabobs in Valkyr's arms, we never got to see them on the original Valkyr, it's where she stores her rip line. Alad was trying to contain her powers with that boxes. That's why the Prime version also has boxes.

Boring but plausible. 

 

why does everyone think he is orokin? alad v is simply a corpus scientist [mad/genius?] 

hunhow would call any human as such as the culmination of humankind was under the "orokin" empire , corpus included , the corpus though developed more so after the orokin empires fall, and are money ..oriented 

orokin are humans , executors and other nobles/elite  used things like ...red liquid

to extend their life 

there was a old thread on this 

review anti-moa synthesis 

Edited November 24, 2016 by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako

[DoppelShifter]

Prime Time is come and gone, lots of people asked about Valkyr Prime on the chat and... no answer.

I think the worst part of all of this is having to depend of offhand comments that one or other person from DE made in one or other place, instead of them actually saying something openly here in the Forums. And it's not by lack of outcry; their Facebook page is burning with comments ever since the Devstream, and this very thread is made of lots of other threads made from the Devstream to very recently.

At this point, I don't know what's worse: the waiting or the radio silence.

[GX339-4]

1 hour ago, DoppelShifter said:

Prime Time is come and gone, lots of people asked about Valkyr Prime on the chat and... no answer.

I think the worst part of all of this is having to depend of offhand comments that one or other person from DE made in one or other place, instead of them actually saying something openly here in the Forums. And it's not by lack of outcry; their Facebook page is burning with comments ever since the Devstream, and this very thread is made of lots of other threads made from the Devstream to very recently.

At this point, I don't know what's worse: the waiting or the radio silence.

So sad to hear this.

[Yrveth]

1 hour ago, DoppelShifter said:

Prime Time is come and gone, lots of people asked about Valkyr Prime on the chat and... no answer.

I can't blame them for avoiding such a touchy subject. Prime Time is not DevstreamLite™ besides, it's not really a source of news/statements. Now if nothing happens in next week's stream, that's when things will be really hopeless

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, DoppelShifter said:

Prime Time is come and gone, lots of people asked about Valkyr Prime on the chat and... no answer.

I think the worst part of all of this is having to depend of offhand comments that one or other person from DE made in one or other place, instead of them actually saying something openly here in the Forums. And it's not by lack of outcry; their Facebook page is burning with comments ever since the Devstream, and this very thread is made of lots of other threads made from the Devstream to very recently.

At this point, I don't know what's worse: the waiting or the radio silence.

Oh lame. Anyways, thanks. You saved a whole hour of my life. 

I really fear the trailer they are making is not going to answer questions. I hope it's going to explain a lot but... if not, i have no faith in this game anymore.