[TWW] Regarding Operators in Relays

[ShadowMark25]

In Devstream 83, it was said that letting Operators walk in the relays was going to be a feature soon. The way I see it, not only does this seem incredibly lore-breaking; but it also spoils anyone who has not played both Second Dream and The War Within.

My request to DE is that if it must be implemented, can there be an 'operator-only' room in the relays instead? Like through the door at the back of the relay marked red, between the Conclave and the Mission Control room.

Reddit thread on the same topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/5ds71u/spoilers_spoilers_postthe_war_within_quest_about/

 

Edit: Tl;Dr of the the thread at the moment:

1. Limit Operator mode to the Orcus relay and/or put in an access requirement of completing The War Within.
2. Adding an additional mini quest /lore which introduces relay NPCs to the Operators themselves.

Optional: Adding a two layer client-side Visual Filter so that people who haven't done The Second Dream and The War Within won't see the respective source behind the new abilities (even though it is the same source). Also, in the operator's place putting a glowing, amorphous form shooting out different powers, as suggested by Cherant in the above reddit post.

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by ShadowMark25
Adding a Summary

[TehGMMan]

Why is it lore breaking?

[Prinnydreamknight]

I agree with OP

Edit: i don't know about lore at all, but i do think it would be a big spoiler

Edited November 19, 2016 by Prinnydreamknight

[-Apple-Pie-]

Instead when player appears in their true form, people who have not finished Second Dream yet will see the Warframe instead of Operator. Thats my idea.

[Prinnydreamknight]

1 minute ago, mobilehacker said:

Instead when player appears in their true form, people who have not finished Second Dream yet will see the Warframe instead of Operator. Thats my idea.

Nice. I'm sure the Devs could work that in somehow. 

[-CCC-Secret]

It's not lore breaking, at least I don't see it that way.

But it is kinda a spoiler for newbs. So you're suggesting that there be a room to activate them, kinda like the sell mode in Maroo's Bazaar that you can only activate while inside the room.

That's ok, but what I suggest is that it would be an option only in Orcus Relay. That way, the newbies won't get spoiled, but we're free to roam around the whole Relay.

But I mean, we're free to activate Focus in any mission, that's already something they should work on if you really don't want to spoil those that haven't done TSD/TWW.

Edited November 19, 2016 by secret9005

[ShadowMark25]

11 minutes ago, TehGMMan said:

Why is it lore breaking?

 

5 minutes ago, secret9005 said:

It's not lore breaking, at least I don't see it that way.

If the Solar System at large found out that the one force they have been relying on for survival is manned by a bunch of kinds (1000+ year old kids, but kids all the same), would they continue to actually support said force? Keep in mind that it is civilian/community tactic agreement that keeps such underground organizations alive in the first place. And despite a good track record, there WILL be objections to this (adding to that, from the TWW we see that our operators haven't quite regained mental maturity yet. If civilian/community heads demand to meet them, I don't think they will be impressed).

Edited November 19, 2016 by ShadowMark25

[-CCC-Secret]

4 minutes ago, ShadowMark25 said:

If the Solar System at large found out that the one force they have been relying on for survival is manned by a bunch of kinds (1000+ year old kids, but kids all the same), would they continue to actually support said force? Keep in mind that it is civilian/community tactic agreement that keeps such underground organizations alive in the first place. And despite a good track record, there WILL be objections to this (add to that that, from the TWW we see that our operators haven't quite regain mental maturity yet. If civilian/community heads demand to meet them, I don't think they will be impressed).

That same kid just killed one of the Grineer Queens, I don't think they'd be that close minded. Sure it can cause a bit of doubt, much like how Teshin keeps shutting us away. We have much to learn, but we are maturing, they should understand our situation. We've been hidden in the void, even we didn't know we were kids until TSD happened.

[Prinnydreamknight]

1 minute ago, secret9005 said:

That same kid just killed one of the Grineer Queens, I don't think they'd be that close minded. Sure it can cause a bit of doubt, much like how Teshin keeps shutting us away. We have much to learn, but we are maturing, they should understand our situation. We've been hidden in the void, even we didn't know we were kids until TSD happened.

People in real life probably wouldn't be that compassionate about kids leading a secret organization/rebellion. Maybe in a video game? but i still personally think they would be incredibly skeptical.

[ShadowMark25]

12 hours ago, secret9005 said:

That same kid just killed one of the Grineer Queens, I don't think they'd be that close minded. Sure it can cause a bit of doubt, much like how Teshin keeps shutting us away. We have much to learn, but we are maturing, they should understand our situation. We've been hidden in the void, even we didn't know we were kids until TSD happened.

True, but even with that credit, some careful ground breaking to the civilians still needs to be done. Doubts here can go costly, and in this particular game world, lives and livelihood are at stake, for both the civis and the people who are supported by them. (Which in this case are Tenno themselves. The credits, resources and specialized equipment/weapons have to come from somewhere).

Maybe a mini introductory quest/cinematic for when someone first completes the War Within enters any relay?

I still stand by needing a separate place for Operators only though.

Edited November 20, 2016 by ShadowMark25

[-CCC-Secret]

4 minutes ago, Prinnydreamknight said:

People in real life probably wouldn't be that compassionate about kids leading a secret organization/rebellion. Maybe in a video game? but i still personally think they would be incredibly skeptical.

Well it is a video game. Anything can happen.

But even if they do reject us, that just opens another possibility to a new quest. A quest to prove ourselves to them or something of the likes.

3 minutes ago, ShadowMark25 said:

True, but even with that credit, some careful ground breaking to the civilians still needs to be done. Doubts here can go costly (and in this world, lives are at stake, for both the civis and the people who are supported by them, which in this case are the Tenno themselves).

Maybe a mini introductory quest/cinematic for when someone first completes the War Within enters any relay?

I still stand by needing a separate place for Operators only though.

Orcus Relay is MR 8 locked, while TWW is an MR 5 quest. I say it's safe to allow all Operator access in that relay.

[Prinnydreamknight]

2 minutes ago, secret9005 said:

But even if they do reject us, that just opens another possibility to a new quest. A quest to prove ourselves to them or something of the likes.

Yeah, why not.

[ShadowMark25]

16 minutes ago, secret9005 said:

Well it is a video game. Anything can happen.

But even if they do reject us, that just opens another possibility to a new quest. A quest to prove ourselves to them or something of the likes.

Orcus Relay is MR 8 locked, while TWW is an MR 5 quest. I say it's safe to allow all Operator access in that relay.

What if they haven't done the quest? Unless DE makes it that you have to complete the Quest to actually access Orcus, I don't see how that could work.

Edited November 19, 2016 by ShadowMark25

[-CCC-Secret]

Just now, ShadowMark25 said:

What if they haven't done the quest? Unless DE makes it that you have to complete the Quest to actually access Orcus, I don't see how that could work.

That's on them? Doing the Junctions and not finishing the major quests, then be all surprised about what you see. As far as I know, once you've finished the Sedna Junction, and you're MR 5 and have finished TSD, the game NAGS on you to do TWW.

They can do that, though. Make the Orcus Relay accessible only to those who have done TWW. Still works.

[SenariousNex]

I think 1 year, is long enough for 2nd dream not to be spoilable. Guess what people, Snape kills Dumbledore. So there will come a time when everyone knows and comes to terms with the fact that operators control warframes. Operators already appear in the trailers and will be ever so more present in the presentation of the game in new trailers years down the line. It's not some secret that we need to cuddle for decades.

[ShadowMark25]

35 minutes ago, SenariousNex said:

I think 1 year, is long enough for 2nd dream not to be spoilable. Guess what people, Snape kills Dumbledore. So there will come a time when everyone knows and comes to terms with the fact that operators control warframes. Operators already appear in the trailers and will be ever so more present in the presentation of the game in new trailers years down the line. It's not some secret that we need to cuddle for decades.

It was never was a long term secret to begin with. The 1 year only counts for people who actually played that long. New Players (only a few months old) though, have as much right to enjoy the 'secret reveal' as the old timers.

Just because something has been out (Book, quest etc) for a long time, doesn't mean everyone knows it as common knowledge, much less actually want to be told. [Or DE wouldn't be so strict about Spoilers in the first place]

Edited November 19, 2016 by ShadowMark25

[Sasquatchias]

Personally I just don't really understand the whole Spoiler aspect of the whole thing. 

I mean really right now we have Operators in plain view in multiple places - we have them in loading screens, we have them on the Profile diorama things, we have them pop out for the Focus Ability, at this point in time it'd take only a quick google search or something on the part of a new player to immediately find out the big secret.

If its apparently such a big deal then just keep the Operators locked to the Orcus Relay - by that point in time newer players should have completed at least the Second Dream, if not The War Within - meaning it won't be a big spoil to them.

If they didn't do their story quests before then thats on them for ignoring it.

 

Alternatively (and for the people *@##$ing about Operators walking around in plain sight of people who most likely don't give a damn about them being kids since we still control suits designed to be killing machines or have little to no reason to actually tell any of actual enemies) we could get a new, separate and "secret" Relay for Operators-only that still had the same functions of a regular relay, just visually different (like transactions or interactions done through some kind of screen or something that keeps the Operators hidden from Syndicates) with Teshin, Cephalon Symaris, and possibly Darvo or Baro being the only people actually there that aren't the Tenno.

[ShadowMark25]

Agreed on both points. Wonder if it's possible for DE to put in some sort of filter system? Like, if you haven't done the two quests, you won't see the operators themselves, just the powers they manifest.

Edit: or rather DE, please put in a filter. I want to play with low MR friends and use abilities, but I really don't want to spoil them. They're as much lore lovers as I am.

Edited November 19, 2016 by ShadowMark25

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, ShadowMark25 said:

New Players (only a few months old) though, have as much right to enjoy the 'secret reveal' as the old timers.

A new player seeing a kid walking around isn't going to necessarily put 2 and 2 together until after they get far enough in, but you're not going to tell the majority that they need to hold back because there might be some person walking around that doesn't know how the story ends a year later.

[SenariousNex]

32 minutes ago, ShadowMark25 said:

Agreed on both points. Wonder if it's possible for DE to put in some sort of filter system? Like, if you haven't done the two quests, you won't see the operators themselves, just the powers they manifest.

Edit: or rather DE, please put in a filter. I want to play with low MR friends and use abilities, but I really don't want to spoil them. They're as much lore lovers as I am.

I think such a filter will cause more problems than offer solutions.

Better solution would be to diversify the relays, more npcs of different backgrounds, npc operators, etc. So that tenno operators would blend right in. 

[ShadowMark25]

1 minute ago, SenariousNex said:

I think such a filter will cause more problems than offer solutions.

Better solution would be to diversify the relays, more npcs of different backgrounds, npc operators, etc. So that tenno operators would blend right in. 

As awesome as that truly sounds, it still raises two main questions:

1. How will the Tenno be introduced to the relay civilians in the first place? I imagine to a pretty small community, so they WILL know something's different about us. And I somehow doubt that the Lotus will pull a 'They're hear because I called them' card; since a: If you could bring kids, then why not let us bring our families? [The relays are (relatively) safe] (and cause a pandemonium of requests/ explanation demands). and b: since we are called, they will investigate, find out who we are and

3 hours ago, ShadowMark25 said:

If the Solar System at large found out that the one force they have been relying on for survival is manned by a bunch of kinds (1000+ year old kids, but kids all the same), would they continue to actually support said force? Keep in mind that it is civilian/community tactic agreement that keeps such underground organizations alive in the first place. And despite a good track record, there WILL be objections to this (adding to that, from the TWW we see that our operators haven't quite regained mental maturity yet. If civilian/community heads demand to meet them, I don't think they will be impressed).

2. The actual building of said relay, npc operatives/operators; whole new tilesets and characters, versus a universal visual filter code (at least, I think a filter would be much less work. Can someone with a computer background confirm please?)

[Valiant]

2 hours ago, ShadowMark25 said:

What if they haven't done the quest? Unless DE makes it that you have to complete the Quest to actually access Orcus, I don't see how that could work.

Gotta go by that hopefully once they've reached mr8 they should've started/completed the quest(s) by then. That or they've likely heard or seen the spoilers anyways. Have to apply some common sense at one point or another  

Can't really go around coddling everyone or as if you're walking on egg shells. 

I'm not a fan of a special room. Just keep it to appropriate relays. One part of the relays I like is people chilling in the main hallway. Usually seeing that social environment encourages me to chill out and join in for a few. I wouldn't generally feel inclined to go to a special room if it was out of my way.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Naith

[-Ryuurei-]

Small problem with limiting them to orcus only... nobody actually uses orcus on purpose, except when baro is there.

Also people can use them in missions in plain sight, and those are far more populated than relays, especially by newbies. Even the teasers and trailers have the operator shown everywhere.

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, DragonSkllzz_of_OG said:

Small problem with limiting them to orcus only... nobody actually uses orcus on purpose, except when baro is there.

Also people can use them in missions in plain sight, and those are far more populated than relays, especially by newbies. Even the teasers and trailers have the operator shown everywhere.

Absolutely, but it would be a step in the right direction to try and appease the other side (the op's). As I previously said I completely agree with your points - there are absolutely tons of spoilers everywhere and the biggest, aside from the loading screen, is people using them in missions. They did it with focus and they'll do it with this.

You can't really go on about spoilers and suggest walking on thin ice when all of this exists. As such I don't feel it's a strong enough reason to stop all out functionality on relays.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Naith

[Fugana]

First time i see any game that want to hide its original ideas from new players and i dont khow why, do they gona like more the grind than the new features they dont know about? spoilers in game that almost hav no story? 

When the game have few Hours of cinemttics and quest line than we can talk about story.