Trials Need To Be A Lot More Accessible

[VonDodo]

Well lets say the truth.

Now they "fixed" nullifiers, NM lor rewards are totally too low for the failure chance.

In the cart part a single eximus, powerfist, bombard can easily take a player out of the button while other guys kill the cart in few direct hits.

Also a single awful netcode can dc some people and make the run fail for no reason (some loading boots even 2-3 players and if the party drops under 4 the mission fails before having the chance to connect again).

 

Now there are serveral ways to prevent that, but its not forgiving ANY mistake.... and in the end you get a 2-100 plat item that is:

-underpowered to current standards

-difficult to sell

-can't be moved to other helms/syandanas

-falling in price costantly

-most time you get only credits and a worthless arcane

 

 

 

Yep even today NM is more than doable but the challenge/reward is totally ruined.

Edited November 22, 2016 by VonDodo

[Eliakin]

It's been more than a year since raid was released and until today it is full of bug (mainly JV) every time is a different bug without counting that there are some arcanes as a reward that are unuts

Sortie all reward is usable different from LoR that you win things you will never use or sell for example Arcane Deflection.

I'm hoping to see some renewal in the trials today to see if they can do it with better rewards and bug fixes that have stunned gamers since its release.

[NativeKiller]

2 hours ago, Krumplifej said:

My issue with raids is that nobody plays them in my clan, so the only way I could join one is the recruit chat with randoms. (I have only a few friends in-game outside of my clan)

That way people are telling me what should i use - I can do every role, but why people demand the "optimal frame + weapon combinations" or at least what they think is optimal?
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

For example, in LoR you need an EV, need 4xCP auras, and a loki is really handy in the 3rd stage for playing a decoy for Vay Hek. You need some CC on top of these, and you are good to go. Why is a max range frost worse than a blind mirage? Why would you need rejuvenation aura to counter the toxic damage in the 1st stage, when you have a trinity who can spam blessing? Because, they told so.

And they won't stop at telling what you should use: they have other wishes, like "loki should stand on the pads last" or "nova should drive the fomorian core" like it would matter. And if somebody tells them to chill out, they leave or start raging until someone leaves the party, possibly one of the key players.

Those players drive away many others from raids, and not just new players, but veterans too (like me). I'd rather play with an MR4 who can't kill anything, but is willing to listen, and does stuff he is told, than those MR22 (soon 23) who have maxed everything but always know better.

 

 

 

 

TLDR: recruiting a raid squad without a toxic player takes more time than completing the raid itself.

• I'd say the raids should have work like the J3 assassination node: unlocked after a quest, and not key locked (looking at you, mutalist Alad V). The quest should teach you the mechanics encountered in the raid. (like how to defeat kuva guardians)
• If you quit the raid, you can't join another one for 48 hours. (You can fail or complete as many as you want)

With these requirements, you could open the raids for public join.

I agree with most of your points.

 

But just saying that it would be really sad if you had to abort the mission due to a bug and got timelocked for 48 hours... :3

Edited November 22, 2016 by NativeKiller

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

2 hours ago, Krumplifej said:

My issue with raids is that nobody plays them in my clan, so the only way I could join one is the recruit chat with randoms. (I have only a few friends in-game outside of my clan)

That way people are telling me what should i use - I can do every role, but why people demand the "optimal frame + weapon combinations" or at least what they think is optimal?
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

For example, in LoR you need an EV, need 4xCP auras, and a loki is really handy in the 3rd stage for playing a decoy for Vay Hek. You need some CC on top of these, and you are good to go. Why is a max range frost worse than a blind mirage? Why would you need rejuvenation aura to counter the toxic damage in the 1st stage, when you have a trinity who can spam blessing? Because, they told so.

And they won't stop at telling what you should use: they have other wishes, like "loki should stand on the pads last" or "nova should drive the fomorian core" like it would matter. And if somebody tells them to chill out, they leave or start raging until someone leaves the party, possibly one of the key players.

Those players drive away many others from raids, and not just new players, but veterans too (like me). I'd rather play with an MR4 who can't kill anything, but is willing to listen, and does stuff he is told, than those MR22 (soon 23) who have maxed everything but always know better.

 

 

 

 

TLDR: recruiting a raid squad without a toxic player takes more time than completing the raid itself.

• I'd say the raids should have work like the J3 assassination node: unlocked after a quest, and not key locked (looking at you, mutalist Alad V). The quest should teach you the mechanics encountered in the raid. (like how to defeat kuva guardians)
• If you quit the raid, you can't join another one for 48 hours. (You can fail or complete as many as you want)

With these requirements, you could open the raids for public join.

There are alot viable CC frames for LoR, vauban, nyx, excalibur, rhino, mirage, for normal mode runs a disarm loki combined with a slova is more then enough.

The whole "dont bring rejuvenation" is because it used to mess with 99% blessing builds....

99% Blessing is nerfed now anyway, so theres no reason to not bring one or two rejuvenations.

Blessing range is also nerfed so theres another reason to bring that rejuvenation.

Frost is no alternative to other CC frames because hes lacking range, 15m vs 25m.

Fomorian core should be driven by:

host (because client desync can mess with the core position)

or

ev if the host has a reliable connection. (because u need dat overshield or atleast be able to restore your shield in order to drive)

 

 

[Yagamilight123]

10 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The truth is that sorties and trials are basically supposed to be the endgame. Sorties are played a fair bit, but most people will tell you they need to be more rewarding. DE has been working on this, moving weapons and Nezha, talking about no Endo 2000 more than twice in a row, etc. But Trials are still a huge problem. 

They are a part of the "endgame" that the vast majority of players completely neglect. Trials are only done by a few hardcore clan groups for the most part, all who are extremely experienced. Even for longtime, well equipped VETERANS, trials are not accessible. This is a huge problem. And it is one of the reasons many players say there "isn't an endgame". There could be, if the trials weren't in need of such improvements. 

What Do I mean by accessible? What I mean is that finding a group to actually run them with is quite hard if you aren't already experienced at them -- it is a catch 22. But this isn't because most players are jerks! Most players in Warframe are happy to help others in need, but many aren't willing to give new people a try in trials. Why? Because it already costs a good bit for the key, you have to invest a fair amount of time in doing the trial, and one little mistake by a newbie to trials in the wrong stage can lead to instant mission failure for everyone. ONE. Little. Mistake. And It's goodbye mission, and the salt flows, and that newbie, even if people aren't mean to them about it, feels really bad for screwing things up and feels much less like even trying to find a group in the future. If the group is mean about it, they may never try a trial again. 

Quite frankly it isn't necessarily that the trials are too complicated -- it is a coop game, and a trial is about getting eight people to work together. The problem is that trials, especially LOR at certain parts, have way too punishing fail conditions. This drives off anyone who hasn't done a trial from ever learning them at all. 

They don't necessarily need to be redone, but I think DE should give them a pass to remove some of the more easy to trigger fail conditions, so that people who haven't tried trials aren't intimidated from even trying. 

What do you all think about this? Are trials fine, or do they need to be more accessible to those who haven't done them before, and have less punishing fail states? 

It's incredible sad that people cry about the only litlle piece of "endgame" .... The game is insane easy , the only part of a game that you can fail is Raids an even there is pretty easy to do it well with a little of work . No , Raid are not need to be more "accesible" , are not been to be play for new people or ungear ones .... one mistake should end in fail ,

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

The one thing I find odd about Trials (and please, do correct me if you feel this assessment is wrong as my experience with trials is only LoR, and only once) is that it's arse backwards. DE has been stating for years they are trying to curb the feeling of required gear to get a job done, and whilst I am keenly aware as a gamer, a RPGMMO player, that is incredibly hard to achieve for raids. What's backwards, at least for LoR, is that the more people you have, the more restricted in roles you are required to bring. The less players you take, the more freedom you have. This stems from the mistake/human input factor. More people, more risk to fail the mission, more need of factors to reduce that risk. The reverse is true with less people. I have no idea how DE can fox that, but I believe this is the true problem in and of itself that keeps people out. Folks hate being restricted to specific frames. And yet, the unrestricted route requires experience with the raid(s).

Edited November 22, 2016 by (PS4)FunyFlyBoy

[ThunderZsolt]

1 hour ago, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said:

There are alot viable CC frames for LoR, vauban, nyx, excalibur, rhino, mirage, for normal mode runs a disarm loki combined with a slova is more then enough.

The whole "dont bring rejuvenation" is because it used to mess with 99% blessing builds....

99% Blessing is nerfed now anyway, so theres no reason to not bring one or two rejuvenations.

Blessing range is also nerfed so theres another reason to bring that rejuvenation.

Frost is no alternative to other CC frames because hes lacking range, 15m vs 25m.

Fomorian core should be driven by:

host (because client desync can mess with the core position)

or

ev if the host has a reliable connection. (because u need dat overshield or atleast be able to restore your shield in order to drive)

 

 

The dude i was talking about said that you need rejuvenation, and he did ragequit because we only equipped one.

Max range ice wave is 50m, stacking that 50% slow with 75% from molecular prime renders the enemies almost as helpless as blinding them. Sure, you need 3-4 cast to cover each direction, but it's easy to fully cover for example the control room in the 2nd stage, especially with the augment.

The "host should drive" is a valid argument, but it is not related to the frame he/she is using. If the EV isn't that far away/hacking, the driver should always have plenty of overshields anyway.

 

My point wasn't about that those dudes told utter BS, but they acted like if that was the only way to complete the mission. No, it's not. Like I've said, only EV, loki, and 4xCP auras are needed, and you can even complete the raid with 8 oberons. Really, no reason to be toxic if someone wants to bring for example frost/nyx as second/3rd CC frame.

1 hour ago, NativeKiller said:

But just saying that it would be really sad if you had to abort the mission due to a bug and got timelocked for 48 hours... :3

Yep, totally forgot about that (haven't done raids since... almost a year now)

[Misgenesis]

Im just never going to be playing a trial as long as they require recruiting. They could start from making it soloable.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

21 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Im just never going to be playing a trial as long as they require recruiting. They could start from making it soloable.

Yeah, no. It's a dungeon. This is a team game. Not many games ever will make a dungeon soloable unless it's a starter dungeon. Considering that concept doesn't exist in Warframe, party up.

[Ailissa]

In MMO's where raids are a big part of end game, only a small portion of the community do them.

 

Take Warframe, a lot of us are incredibly casual. It's a game we can slap on and slaughter our way through a few missions to kill a few hours.

 

Raiding/trials are the last thing on my mind when I log in. People have offered like some of those that run the bus that takes newbies through them but i've just never got round to it.

 

The main problem is the rewards. Arcane enhancements really don't appeal to me. Having to meet certain conditions in a game to activate them when i'm only playing for fun isn't something I have any interest in.

 

The credits would be nice but I don't have the plat for boosters. 

 

There just is no incentive for me to want to do them. As the golden rule of life is "you are never the only one" then it stands to reason that other people feel the same. 

 

Trials are great for people that like to do little challenges in games to activate their enhancements but that isn't for me. I don't have the loadouts to trivialise combat so other people would literally be carrying me. 

 

None of that appeals to me at all. It's also the reason I don't do sorties. 

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

2 hours ago, Ailissa said:

-In MMO's where raids are a big part of end game, only a small portion of the community do them.

.

.

.

-The credits would be nice but I don't have the plat for boosters. 

-wrong, almost every MMO out there requires u to do raids. 

they are endgame and they will provide u with gear, wich is required to hit the next content.

its still an mmo, if u want to yolo-solo everything you should try doom or something....

btw... warframe is a terrible example of the mmo genre....

 

-thats why boosters drop there ;)

 

 

its very well worth it... 50 minutes for recruiting, and doing both normal and nightmare LoR... u get tons of credits for it, arcanes(wich u can still sell for plat if u dont like them, thats what i do) and u get the boosters.... before i go farm resources or credits i always do my daily raids first so i can make the most out of it.

Edited November 22, 2016 by ..-Hayden-Tenno-..

[ZeroGenmu]

Trials are easy to do and learn, the problem is finding a group of players that don't rage quit when you mess up 2-3 times from failed communication. My advice is find a group of players, (4-6 will be fine for any raid) and just progress through raids. That's how the group I run with learned how to do raids. Now they bring in people from time to time when we don't have enough people online. You only ever need 3 people who understands how to do trials, the rest are filler. Hell I was just a filler when I joined them, and now I understand how to do all 3 raids. It takes time if you're just learning, but I promise you if you find people that want to learn how to do raids just as much as you do, it'll be worth it in the long run. 

[Ailissa]

30 minutes ago, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said:

-wrong, almost every MMO out there requires u to do raids. 

they are endgame and they will provide u with gear, wich is required to hit the next content.

its still an mmo, if u want to yolo-solo everything you should try doom or something....

btw... warframe is a terrible example of the mmo genre....

Try looking it up, only a small portion of ANY MMO do raids. It's always been that way. Blizzard took to nerfing their raids due to only having a 1% completion rate, they still aren't massively popular.

 

Quite a lot of people play MMO's solo too. That has also happened for a long time. I've played MMO's solo for years, grouping is very rarely needed. The only MMO I play where grouping is needed is Final Fantasy 14, every other MMO I play is easily played solo.

 

I never said Warframe was an MMO either, I used MMO's as an example because they tend to have raids.

[Horaciozhao]

I´d like a smaller version of trials, an easier version for 1-4 people which is soloable like normal missions if you have experience and gear. They can lower the rewards, but I´d like to play it without the need to group that many people

[DxAdder]

18 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The truth is that sorties and trials are basically supposed to be the endgame. Sorties are played a fair bit, but most people will tell you they need to be more rewarding. DE has been working on this, moving weapons and Nezha, talking about no Endo 2000 more than twice in a row, etc. But Trials are still a huge problem. 

They are a part of the "endgame" that the vast majority of players completely neglect. Trials are only done by a few hardcore clan groups for the most part, all who are extremely experienced. Even for longtime, well equipped VETERANS, trials are not accessible. This is a huge problem. And it is one of the reasons many players say there "isn't an endgame". There could be, if the trials weren't in need of such improvements. 

What Do I mean by accessible? What I mean is that finding a group to actually run them with is quite hard if you aren't already experienced at them -- it is a catch 22. But this isn't because most players are jerks! Most players in Warframe are happy to help others in need, but many aren't willing to give new people a try in trials. Why? Because it already costs a good bit for the key, you have to invest a fair amount of time in doing the trial, and one little mistake by a newbie to trials in the wrong stage can lead to instant mission failure for everyone. ONE. Little. Mistake. And It's goodbye mission, and the salt flows, and that newbie, even if people aren't mean to them about it, feels really bad for screwing things up and feels much less like even trying to find a group in the future. If the group is mean about it, they may never try a trial again. 

Quite frankly it isn't necessarily that the trials are too complicated -- it is a coop game, and a trial is about getting eight people to work together. The problem is that trials, especially LOR at certain parts, have way too punishing fail conditions. This drives off anyone who hasn't done a trial from ever learning them at all. 

They don't necessarily need to be redone, but I think DE should give them a pass to remove some of the more easy to trigger fail conditions, so that people who haven't tried trials aren't intimidated from even trying. 

What do you all think about this? Are trials fine, or do they need to be more accessible to those who haven't done them before, and have less punishing fail states? 

Trying to run a trial in a PUG ? that is about the same as trying to run a raid in World or Warcraft as a PUG, you will fail almost every time.

And in the end the rewards aren't worth the effort or time anyhow.

 

 

[DxAdder]

Dbl Post Opps !

Edited November 22, 2016 by DxAdder

[Toppien]

On 21/11/2016 at 8:39 PM, Kibbols123 said:

You should NEVER have to close a game just to learn how to play it.

uh, hello? game guides and manuals are not a thing anymore? damn i feel old

[Kibbols123]

1 hour ago, Toppien said:

uh, hello? game guides and manuals are not a thing anymore? damn i feel old

Back then though, games didn't really allow for in-game guides given the space limitations on the disks/cartridges. With everything on the systems/servers now their is a much larger opportunity to have in-game guides/manuals.