Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[GTX49]

What's the use of this megathread anymore? 87 pages and nothing.. not even a slight change in his Bladestorm..

Seems like a lost cause >...>

Figure it out already, you have tons of feedback in this thread.

[Sarinji]

a) I am using a controller and as it is widely known aiming with it is harder than with a mouse.

b) Before the rework for me ash was fun to play because u didnt have to aim. That he did make a lot of damage was just a bonus for me.

c) Now, after the rework, ash still makes an insane amount of damage when modded correctly but bladestorm cant be used with a controller anymore and this is just sad.

This problem was mentioned before the rework by a lot of people and i can imagine that i am not the only controller user who abandoned ash for this exact reason.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

If it was me, I would keep bs the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problems that people had with bladestorm before the nerf.

[Sashmaul]

5 hours ago, GTX49 said:

What's the use of this megathread anymore? 87 pages and nothing.. not even a slight change in his Bladestorm..

Seems like a lost cause >...>

Figure it out already, you have tons of feedback in this thread.

I think you have this right GTX49 

Is DE really proud of this rework and this was the best they could do? 

If this is the case I dread to think what is coming in future, well at least they got the synergy right with 1 frame.

It is a shame really they chose a nerf instead of an actual rework. Dont get me wrong his ult was bad before, just now it is the same with a marking mode before and more energy consumption.  

[Zaifarh]

Guys, I'm not sure that DEs still care about this megathread. I think they even not read what we posted at all.

So, what can we do? Should we all send them our messages on DEs' next live Devstream? And we'll see what's their reaction. Of course they have two choices, answer or ignore us. If they choose to ignore the messages, we will see and.........huh I don't know what to say guys. It's been hopeless for awhile.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

20 hours ago, Zaifarh said:

Guys, I'm not sure that DEs still care about this megathread. I think they even not read what we posted at all.

So, what can we do? Should we all send them our messages on DEs' next live Devstream? And we'll see what's their reaction. Of course they have two choices, answer or ignore us. If they choose to ignore the messages, we will see and.........huh I don't know what to say guys. It's been hopeless for awhile.

Yes send messages to them in a big bulk about ash`s bs. The best solution is to put bs the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problems that people had with bladestorm before the nerf.

[AxelXeron]

I'm personally not a fan of the rework as the damage potential seems ABSURDLY diminished as compared to his previous 4 ability. I once hit 4 on a Juggernaut and Ash kept hitting it until it died. That was overpowered, sure. But now the damage seems barely worth using the ability at higher level missions. I'd personally  be a fan of making the ability work like Mesa's ultimate, in which you hold left click and look at enemies to attack them. Except obviously Ash would teleport to each enemy you look at in succession and melee them. This would give the player the ability to prioritize targets and would require some degree of focus. Combine this with something closer to his previous damage potential and he would have a worthwhile ultimate again. The only real challenge would be keeping this unique compared to Excalibur's Slash Dash.

[Nagisawa]

On 12/26/2016 at 7:30 AM, Nazrethim said:

He is a ninja, not a realistic one, but he definetly qualifies. His tools are effective, but could use some extra work on them.

If he qualifies, then so does the Rhino frame.

[Slaughterdance]

I find his new BS to be highly unusable with all those reactivation presses. True, before it was just totally devastating and boring for everyone but now it's just not usable enough. 

 

Also Bladestorm ain't a fitting name anymore. Rename it to 'Mark of the Killer', make it a permanent ability like Chromas or Mesas. Cost would be affected by Duration/Efficiency. While active, Ash enters a melee only mode and gets an evasion-bonus like Titania, affected by Power Strength. When he gets close to enemies, they are marked for death, being opened to finishers, by teammates alike. The range, at which enemies are marked as well as the effectiveness of finishers are effected by Power Range and Power Strength. When targeting enemies, you can left click to teleport to them in old fashion Ash-Style, auto-finishing them for massive bonus damage and splitting into three, himself and two clones to send at nearby enemies, also effected by mods. Amount of clones always staying the same though of course. Ash's melee including mods are taken into account as well in this skill. This way his BS Augment would be viable still without changing that, but also be open for any kind of change. I know this is alot alot alot of maths and propably alot of work but like this Ash would again really feel like a badass Ninja out of the shadows and even help teammates with his ult as well as being open to different kinds of builds, regarding his Ult and even being able to use his other skills in between for further effectiveness. Let's not forget he is supposed to be an assassin, the ultimate tool of destruction. Giving him alot of damage and possibilities seems legit to me and he'd still be mobile as hell and lots more fun to play. Maybe even reduce standard ult destructiveness but gibe his other skills a little boost or tweak while in his ult.

 

Now to all who cared to read this wall of text: thanks alot and to DE of course: I love your work and appreciate how much you really respond to your playerbase, even though many don't seem to notice. Never been able to cooperate in a game this much as with Warframe but please consider giving Ash and also some others some love like this for more playability and more fun or unique ways to use since some of your older frames are missing some attention and players that love their style or theme are really sad cuz their favorites aren't viable or hated by others ingame.

[Shy0]

On 07/01/2017 at 4:07 AM, Zaifarh said:

Guys, I'm not sure that DEs still care about this megathread. I think they even not read what we posted at all.

So, what can we do? Should we all send them our messages on DEs' next live Devstream? And we'll see what's their reaction. Of course they have two choices, answer or ignore us. If they choose to ignore the messages, we will see and.........huh I don't know what to say guys. It's been hopeless for awhile.

judging from what was discussed in the devstream, they've moved on and think they've done their job with ash. don't see them revisiting ash anymore, so all this feedback is for nothing. in fact, all our "feedback" about archwing movement, hema mutagen cost and other derps are completely ignored; DE only choose whatever issues they want to address and leave the rest to die when players get distracted about other things. think we should just stop giving feedback since the game is now out of "beta" and DE seem perfectly capable of deciding the direction they want for their game.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

For all of you, my friends.

[(XBOX)DomTheKilleur]

Could you please move Ash's components away from Grineer Manics? You have better chance seeing a pig flying in the sky than encountering Manics. How about putting him in spy missions like Ivara? Or maybe rescue?

Edited January 8, 2017 by (XB1)DomTheKilleur

[Golmihr]

I still end up on teams with Ash players (Usually with an Ash deluxe skin). I just don't encounter the "all mobs turn red and immune to damage", just as I reach them for some melee. To me that feels like a success. Now being on a team with an average Ash player no longer feel like their main reason for playing is to prevent others from having fun.

[askaninja]

On 11/25/2016 at 0:15 PM, Pingu7867 said:

The greatest question now is : Will the attacked enemies still be invulnerable to other allies' damage? This annoyance is way beyond anything else that Blade Storm does annoyingly. I couldn't care less about all the salty edgelords who cry about a patch that reduces the effortlessness of bladestorm. All that is needed is for damage to be also coming from other allies than ash. It's super annoying when an ash pokes an ancient over and over for a whole minute while allies could help obliterate it.

rant over. make enemies not invulnerable to damage coming from something else than ash.

This was my only issue with Ash. I agree, enemies should not be invulnerable during bladestorm. If anything, if an enemy gets killed during bladestorm that was targeted by bladestorm, and another enemy walked into the area, Ash should auto target the new enemy that walked in range with bladestorm to make up for the one that was killed while waiting for the animations

The third power should have been replaced with something else. Teleport is just a lame version of bladestorm. Perhaps a super melee buff? something like a rainbow damage effect type (as that adds 100% damage corrosive, piercing, blast) with double range and that attacks 360 degrees for 20 seconds? Or a street fighter Akuma demon rage style where ash powerfully impales an enemy with his melee and hoists them over their head where you can hold it down and inflict massive damage with a dramatic pose with all damage ignored for the 2+ seconds you are impaling the one enemy.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I would have put bs the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problems that people had with bladestorm before the nerf.

[Somethinglurks]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I would have put bs the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problems that people had with bladestorm before the nerf.

This would have been the easiest change and miles better than what we currently got.

[rudman88]

The only change most people want is while ash is marking / bladestorm in effect other people stillc an damage the target.

DE Bros -> make life simple, change it to animation and copy the data from other normal damage skill

just copy frost, change frost ice to slash

animation instead of all frozen soem clone pook or hack them

how hard can it be ?

reworking and add marking is much more difficult in my opinion.

[TheSteelRat]

Did sortie 1 today and was disappointed.  Even tho my combo counter never reset, even tho I mainly used My Dagger, Blade storm and Fatal teleport, the Blade storm does not count as stealth kills, and the affinity gains SUCK

[Nazrethim]

I find mildly annoying that most feedback is directed towards Blade Storm (which at best could use a reduction in cost of about 5, so each mark costs 10 and 5 while invisible) while gleefully ignoring the other parts that REALLY need to be revisited:

-Rising Storm: 3s Combo counter isn't worth the slot really, either make it affect Drifting Contact and Body Count (DC awarding 20s and BC 24s respectively when RS is equipped), make it award a flat 12s counter (for a total of 32s combo counter if both DC & BC are equipped) or rework it into something else (for example making every attack by Ash award 5-10 hits to the combo counter)

-Teleport: the "teleport to object" is buggy annoying scrappy mechanic that wasn't asked for. What SHOULD have been added is a 'hold ability' function to allow Ash to teleport to the aimed location and a buff to Teleport's default range, also making the execution automatic by default (which help bypass buggy enemies that flat out ignore the stagger and aren't opened) and leave Fatal Teleport with bonus Finisher damage and 50% refund on kill.

-Shuriken: two options. A) make it's damage scale off the combo counter and/or B) make casting Shuriken while Blade Storm marking mode is active throw a shuriken to each marked target at 10 cost each (base before effi modifiers)

-Passive: 20% damage and 50% duration for bleeds sounds great on paper but frankly is lame too simplistic. Ash's passive should work on his theme.

Proposed passive replacement:

Spoiler

Master Assassin:

+50%  Finisher damage

+50% Flight speed for Throwing Knives (Kunai, Despair, Spira, Hikou)

Missed Throwing knives cause a small noise luring enemies in 3m radius

All Claw, Nikana, Sword, Dual Sword, Dagger and Dual Daggers get new special Finisher animations (similar to what we see on the trailer)

Enemies killed by Finishers dissolve, leaving no corpse.

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Nazrethim

[AKKILLA]

The Best Idea is a Stance Rework for Blade Storm!

-Implement concepts from this new Rework, like the Marks can be done by tagging enemies with Shurikens to Indicate they are Marked and under the Slash Bleed procs.

-On each tick it can summon a Clone that visually does the strikes on that enemy to represent theyre under this debuff.

-This also serves as a nice visual Eye Candy and feel of Ninja Master that summons clones at the Players will, while maintaining that original Blade Storm animations/clone feel.

-Enemies tagged by shuriken under Blade Storm (3 Maxed Marks) can be insta Teleported to bringing Ash in to contact with enemies, and allow fast paced mobility and synergy with Shuriken Marks and Teleport. This teleport requires No Line of sight of the enemy only that the enemy still have the Bleed proc active. Ash will prioritize the Last enemy he struck out of the three.

-Smoke Screen will provide an AoE Fog that chokes enemies in radius (Opening Finishers), Increased range of the AoE would be implemented since his range is short.

-This provides Team Synergy all the way (Smoke Shadow) synergizes great with this and another ability which is Teleport.

-Smoke Screen will now appear on Map to indicate to allies its active, aiming at the Fog will show a health bar thats basically its duration, allowing You to Teleport to these Clouds for strategic kills.

-Enemies will be highlighted in red inside cloud

-Ash's duration will remain same in and out the smoke screen, forcing Ash to sit inside will ruin his mobility and stealth since he has the shortest duration out of all the Stealth Frames. implementing this AoE provides multiple purposes for Team Utility better Utilizing a great augment team buff and CROWD CONTROL something Ash Lacks Hard!

A simple 1 second stagger is not considered Crowd Control, and this idea is only a balanced buff to Smoke Screen making Ash more pleasing to play with and in team.

Casts on Ground Only spawn this Fog!

Maintaining this concept of press 4 and watch Blade Storm will always have the same result. Bad Camera Angles, Non-interactive/Unengaging, boring.

No Control of the ability, when we can just Press 4 to Activate the ability and do the killing ourself, and utilitize our other abilities in Blade Storm.

These ideas took great thought and inspiration with whats already in game and other concepts like Assassins Creeds smoke bomb and Batmans smoke pellets, League of legends and plenty other games utilize this common mechanic.

For Ash id say it be best to maintain his current stealth mechanic and apply this on top.

I just hope that DE can consider this remarkable concept in its entirety

[Slaughterdance]

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I find mildly annoying that most feedback is directed towards Blade Storm (which at best could use a reduction in cost of about 5, so each mark costs 10 and 5 while invisible) while gleefully ignoring the other parts that REALLY need to be revisited:

-Rising Storm: 3s Combo counter isn't worth the slot really, either make it affect Drifting Contact and Body Count (DC awarding 20s and BC 24s respectively when RS is equipped), make it award a flat 12s counter (for a total of 32s combo counter if both DC & BC are equipped) or rework it into something else (for example making every attack by Ash award 5-10 hits to the combo counter)

-Teleport: the "teleport to object" is buggy annoying scrappy mechanic that wasn't asked for. What SHOULD have been added is a 'hold ability' function to allow Ash to teleport to the aimed location and a buff to Teleport's default range, also making the execution automatic by default (which help bypass buggy enemies that flat out ignore the stagger and aren't opened) and leave Fatal Teleport with bonus Finisher damage and 50% refund on kill.

-Shuriken: two options. A) make it's damage scale off the combo counter and/or B) make casting Shuriken while Blade Storm marking mode is active throw a shuriken to each marked target at 10 cost each (base before effi modifiers)

-Passive: 20% damage and 50% duration for bleeds sounds great on paper but frankly is lame too simplistic. Ash's passive should work on his theme.

Proposed passive replacement:

  Hide contents

Master Assassin:

+50%  Finisher damage

+50% Flight speed for Throwing Knives (Kunai, Despair, Spira, Hikou)

Missed Throwing knives cause a small noise luring enemies in 3m radius

All Claw, Nikana, Sword, Dual Sword, Dagger and Dual Daggers get new special Finisher animations (similar to what we see on the trailer)

Enemies killed by Finishers dissolve, leaving no corpse.

 

I completely agree on Rising Storm, with new BS it's completely useless. For the Teleport though a hold option would be nice but not really necessary, just fixing the bugs would do it mostly. Don't forget that when being a hold, there is gonna be new bugs.

 

In terms of passive I can't agree at all. Why are you all so focused on passives? They're just a neat niche-bonus for frames. Ever took a look at Mirages passive? Rhino? How are those that usefull? Ash being weak is in no way connected to his passive but cuz he got nerfed when he was a boring but atleast ultimately strong character. And sadly his fast playstyle is not maintainable with neither that blocky ult, that is nicely animated but boring for the player when his targets get killed before and he just gets one enemy every time.

[Nazrethim]

20 minutes ago, Slaughterdance said:

I completely agree on Rising Storm, with new BS it's completely useless. For the Teleport though a hold option would be nice but not really necessary, just fixing the bugs would do it mostly. Don't forget that when being a hold, there is gonna be new bugs.

Considering Ivara can use hold abilities just fine and due to how teleport mechanics in videogames work I don't think there would be much of an issue, basically it would require a hold to create a dummy invisible indestructible unit in the aimed point (like a Decoy) and cast a teleport to it. Tricky thing to do, but definetly on DE¡s capabilities to pull  it off without major issues (unlike the "teleport to object with health" that wasn't really well thought out).

20 minutes ago, Slaughterdance said:

In terms of passive I can't agree at all. Why are you all so focused on passives? They're just a neat niche-bonus for frames.

I just want to play Ash and do flashy finishers with melee weapons like he does on the trailer ok? Honestly I wouldn't give a rat's arse if DE keeps the bleed buff so long as they add some animation flavor to finisher attacks, they are Ash's specialty after all.

[Slaughterdance]

17 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I just want to play Ash and do flashy finishers with melee weapons like he does on the trailer ok? Honestly I wouldn't give a rat's arse if DE keeps the bleed buff so long as they add some animation flavor to finisher attacks, they are Ash's specialty after all.

I get what you are saying but just read my post a before your first one, that would - atleast in my opinion - be a safe start where you don't obstruct your own movement, gotta aim yourself, do some flashy S#&$ while not instantly killing everything at once and also give your mates a chance to kill your targets to, without forcing you to reactivate abilities on end. That would be one way to tackle the current problem. Not talking about his other abilities though. His Shurikens don't feel that bad to me honestly since they kill weaker enemies instantly and his other 2 skills are not that interesting to me anyway, as is with most other frames depending on their builds.

[AKKILLA]

18 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Considering Ivara can use hold abilities just fine and due to how teleport mechanics in videogames work I don't think there would be much of an issue, basically it would require a hold to create a dummy invisible indestructible unit in the aimed point (like a Decoy) and cast a teleport to it. Tricky thing to do, but definetly on DE¡s capabilities to pull  it off without major issues (unlike the "teleport to object with health" that wasn't really well thought out).

I just want to play Ash and do flashy finishers with melee weapons like he does on the trailer ok? Honestly I wouldn't give a rat's arse if DE keeps the bleed buff so long as they add some animation flavor to finisher attacks, they are Ash's specialty after all.

Thats what I want.

A Stance!

Ash should be able to activate Blade Storm via pressing 4.

Then he summons his clones revealing his hidden blades and becoming smokey like he is in this new iteration, thats a neat idea.

The Marks too, could work for targeting enemies like i said before with shuriken

smoke screen for survivability and crowd control, by implementing the Cloud/Fog AoE, synergizes with Smoke Shadow and opens Finisher kills

Teleport synergizes with both shuriken marks and smoke screen allowing you to have more options for Teleport.

A rapid way of tracking down targets by marking them, I think Stealth Kills would make sense to count to the Stealth Affinity in Blade Storm since He is a Stealth Frame

 

[AKKILLA]

 

Perfect example of a Blade Storm stance in this video.