Can we please nerf Mirage + Simulor?

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 hour ago, Pro3Display said:

and this is why they play the game to get the result, not to enjoy the process, process doesn't bring them joy

on the second thought actually  you are wrong: game = process + result.

process without result is not worth participating.

but if result is enjoyable process can be worth participating in regardless of how fun the process is

worthiness of participating in unfun process realtively to enjoyment recieved from the result is purely subjective ofcource

if you think a game without rng-based rewards is not worth participating and warframe's process (read: gameplay) doesn't bring you joy why not just throw some dice then treat yourself based on the results by blindly fetching something from your fridge...

seriously: take this idea to its extreme. imagine everyone is actually bored by warframe's gameplay and DE graciously implement a literal "win" button. what's left? some flashy slot machine, nothing more.

i do understand your reasoning that incentives are integral to the game exprience, of course. but still even without such "results" warframe would still be warframe, a 3rd person shooter with certain rpg elements...

come to think of it: there are quite literally hundreds of thousands of games not based on these kind of results. not worthwhile? mkay...

1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I play Warframe because I enjoy running around as a space ninja shooting things and blowing them up in interesting and fun ways.

What's the point of getting a new, shiny toy if you don't enjoy the experience of playing the game? I'd just quit if I ever felt like that.

Goals help to give focus to your play, and some sense of progress, but if you don't enjoy the process of achieving them, why bother?

this, basically.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[Pro3Display]

19 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

if you think a game without rng-based rewards is not worth participating and warframe's process (read: gameplay) doesn't bring you joy why not just throw some dice then treat yourself based on the results by blindly fetching something from your fridge...

seriously: take this idea to its extreme. imagine everyone is actually bored by warframe's gameplay and DE graciously implement a literal "win" button. what's left? some flashy slot machine, nothing more.

i do understand your reasoning that incentives are integral to the game exprience, of course. but still even without such "results" warframe would still be warframe, a 3rd person shooter with certain rpg elements...

come to think of it: there are quite literally hundreds of thousands of games not based on these kind of results. not worthwhile? mkay...

this, basically.

yeah sorry i was a bit uncertain about that,

i mean 

in process + result combo fun recieved from the process is also a result, no?

what you say would be true if process is always fun and there is no rewards whatsoever

but if you also get result from the rng reward that satisfies you enough to deal with unfun process, process is relieved of duty of being fun 100% of the time

on the second thought, i think i know why unfun gameplay is paired with worthy rewards and cheese strats - free to play business model

process becomes boring fast to make you want to not wait and buy stuff with plat instead of setting up the forge and enjoying the game while you wait,

ofcourse it doesn't work 100% of the time, some still get fun while something is building, some are bored to death, some of the bored pay plat

and it is sad that we cant have a fun game and pay it for being fun to play for everybody

Edited December 6, 2016 by Pro3Display

[Charlitoooo]

As a spin to win Mirage Telos Boltace - Sonicor - Synoid Simulor, I feel offended.

[----Mr.Meow----]

Just now, Charlitoooo said:

Mirage Telos Boltace - Sonicor - Synoid Simulor

3 of the most spaming thing in the game by players in 1(not only with mirage). C'mon it's realy so cool to spam 1 button to win?

[ChuckMaverick]

Using an overpowered ability/weapon combination and exploiting are not the same thing.

Mirage + Simulor may be cheesy and unfun for the some of the other members of your cell, but it is not cheating.

Exploiting means cheating, I don't get why it is so hard for some people to understand that.

[Charlitoooo]

Well to be fair, It's really boring, well it's fun for one game because you're like "wololo i'm god 99% dps blaze it" then it's cool for quick farm.

(It's cool because i enjoy to enter a game, spam simulor, see 1 or 2 people insta quit... I think it's my troll side)

But on the other side sometimes I play a good old frame (not too OP) with good old weapons like cernos and I play like a ninja. I mean I take cover not to die and it takes me 4 - 5 shot sometimes to kill something. I enjoy it too. english bad for sorry

Edited December 6, 2016 by Charlitoooo

[Sirfol]

I read all the post and like someone suggested the way to deal with the situation is to nerf the possibility for mirage to do blast and singularity for the clones.

For those who say "if u don't like it go solo" i say: are u friggin 7 years old? Because it's a argument i can say to you to: your bothering people go play solo if u want, but lets say the truth u don't do it because u want the bonus a 4man party give (more spawn).

For those who say: hey i'm helping the party by nuking everything. Yeah IF IT WASN'T FOR THE FACT U GO UR WAY WITHOUT WAITING ANYONE and this cause other 3  people in the party to not take affinity. Wow u sure are helping man. Why someone need to run behind u because u don't care for other people? Go play solo if u are so egocentric your so op u will not have problems.

For those who say : then why u don't nerf other nukers. Thats what DE are doing don't worry they listen to ur cry for balance, but don't whine when the nerf bat come knocking to ur door.

For those who want to play lazy: well there is frost ur doing a awesome service if do ur bubble and stay in there sing Carmine burana. Here ur real lazy gameplay without much effort and giving a service for the party. Why are u even bothering to play a 3rd person fast action shooter if u want to be lazy is something i don't understand.

And remember it's the fault of spammer ego who can't even push the secondary fire (click roll scrool) we have the visual problem.

So yes nerf the sinergy of miramulor and then nerf other unhealty mechanichs and then u can start to balance enemies btw.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Sirfol

[----Mr.Meow----]

7 minutes ago, Charlitoooo said:

(It's cool because i enjoy to enter a game, spam simulor, see 1 or 2 people insta quit... I think it's my troll side)

See? Thankyou, for your true (realy)

 

11 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Exploiting means cheating, I don't get why it is so hard for some people to understand that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploits

Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating, it's not exactly the cheating it's using something by players to improve there rewards(spam) 

[Sirfol]

21 minutes ago, ---Mr.Meow--- said:

See? Thankyou, for your true (realy)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploits

Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating, it's not exactly the cheating it's using something by players to improve there rewards(spam) 

Exploit isn't cheating that's why there are 2 words. Exploit is using something to advantage urself while the vision of the Dev say otherwise. Like u described. DE didn't expect so much sinergy with this weapon and this is proved by all the nerf/rework they did until now.

And ur really naive if u think the miramulor (not the quote but those anti nerf) isn't a problem and again the proof is in front of ur eyes, the number of pages for this thread and the number of this type of thread popping out almost weekly. 

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

On 12/4/2016 at 11:33 PM, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

Okay so its totally fine for a single player to inconvenience  the whole squad? 

 

Why should the 3 other people in the squad have to leave just because one player doesn't want to play the game properly? 

Yeah it is fine . They have the right to play the game just as much as you do 

[-CCC-Secret]

If you guys do want to nerf the "cheese" the players have, nerf the enemy "cheese" as well.

You see, if you remove those AoE nukes that are so called exploits, enemies will still be broken.

Now imagine those broken enemies in a defense at level 60 or so. How long will it take to kill the enemies? Even with cheese tactics it takes about 5 minutes to finish a 5 waves, now imagine without the "cheese". 10 maybe 15 minutes every 5 waves. So you, you spend 10-15 minutes finishing the broken enemies and guess what. You're rewarded with a Magazine Warp. Yeah cool, that's like my 300th Magazine Warp, totally needed that. See? Not fun.

You guys only want to fix one side of the coin, not the other. You guys ignore the fact that if you remove such "cheese" tactics the game will not become worth playing because of stupid rewards.

It's cool if you want to fix Mirage + Simulor (which IMO isn't broken since it can't kill 100s as easy as Peacemaker or anything), as long as you fix the other side too (rewards and broken scaling).

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

34 minutes ago, Sirfol said:

Why are u even bothering to play a 3rd person fast action shooter if u want to be lazy is something i don't understand.

(yeah sorry i'm kinda in a lazy-gif-mode today but nail > head right there yo.)

[(PSN)SISATi_Ih_PICKA]

Off course she looks op in lowered levels. When endgame comes back on consoles you be wishing for mirage/Simulor to carry you/ CC. 

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

Honesty it seems pretty rare to run into anyone using Mirage and simulor, simulor takes a lot of forma it's easier to just to use the flame thrower thing.

I've used the simulor and it really doesn't hold up in the higher levels, especially against eximus units. Max range and efficiently Hydroid beats everything.

Edited December 6, 2016 by GenerationX3

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Lol

It'll be good for everyone still. It'll just be boosted by Mirage's ability..which is exactly what the ability is supposed to do. The damage isn't an issue with the weapon, only how many people it hits.

If the issue is how many people and not how fast or how much damage than mirage is fine because simulor hits the same AMOUNT of enemies regardless of whether clones are active or not.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)TheANSER-42 said:

If the issue is how many people and not how fast or how much damage than mirage is fine because simulor hits the same AMOUNT of enemies regardless of whether clones are active or not.

I never once said Mirage was a problem or that she needed to be changed. My entire argument has always been about balancing the Simulor. Aside from Mirage being able to further boost the OP weapon there's nothing wrong with her. That's the weapon's fault, not hers.

[S0V3REiGN]

16 minutes ago, GenerationX3 said:

Honesty it seems pretty rare to run into anyone using Mirage and simulor, simulor takes a lot of forma it's easier to just to use the flame thrower thing.

I've used the simulor and it really doesn't hold up in the higher levels, especially against eximus units. Max range and efficiently Hydroid beats everything.

I honestly don't know if we are playing the same game, I run into simulor mirages all the damn time. I honestly don't remember the last time I saw one without a simulor and she still melts anything heavily armored past level 120.

[(PSN)Tsion]

On 12/4/2016 at 10:24 PM, Duavey said:

I'd be ok if they just changed the noise the Simulor made.

bya bya bya bya bya bya bya bya bya bya bya

Hearing that all mission is a new level of annoying.

This ^ or the Excalibur "Swoosh Swish Swish Swoosh" are the bane of my eardrums.

OR

Sortie bosses talking even when you are just short cutting to the Syndicates tab. Lol

[Fast_98]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I never once said Mirage was a problem or that she needed to be changed. My entire argument has always been about balancing the Simulor. Aside from Mirage being able to further boost the OP weapon there's nothing wrong with her. That's the weapon's fault, not hers.

How is it the weapon fault? Have you tried using it against a level 100 gunner or bombard? I takes you 15-20 sec for the bombard and 13-15 seconds to kill a gunner. It purpose it to get rid of trash enemies.

Now when I use my HoM build the time to kill a bombard went down to 5 seconds...she is the main reason that this gun consider op.

Nerf it to the ground and then 2 weeks start complaining about the new meta gun that she'll use. But never fix the root of the problem.

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

Just now, S0V3REiGN said:

I honestly don't know if we are playing the same game, I run into simulor mirages all the damn time. I honestly don't remember the last time I saw one without a simulor and she still melts anything heavily armored past level 120.

I usually never see them, I run into more new players than I do Mirage simulor builds.

I recently was messing around with the build, your name seems familiar. I was probably one of those Mirages lel. o3o

[Thundervision]

This is an offtop, but it's pretty close to WF's and other games' design issues when some features slip out of developers' hands:

The whole thing reminded me of The Bee issue in Borderlands 2 (the game which is about grind much more than WF is). There was a legendary The Bee shield with insane damage AMP per bullet/pellet with zero Shield charge drain and this thing with pellet-based guns/shotguns was (and it still is for projectiles dividing after shot) friggin' OP until Gearbox made it share AMP damage among all pellets.

It will be simple:

Mirage = The Bee

Synoid Simulor = Shotgun/Conference Call

(Terra is a Raid boss)

Spoiler

Now the Warrior isn't a Raid boss, but still:

One of vid's commentaries:

>What is the point of playing the game then.

 

...and why even nerfs (and yet again mechanics slipped out of hands) can't stop abusing

 

The reaction of the Bee being balanced was hilarious and caused a saltstorm.

Sigh.

...sometimes it's hard to admit that some things aren't OK.

 

[S0V3REiGN]

1 minute ago, GenerationX3 said:

I usually never see them, I run into more new players than I do Mirage simulor builds.

I recently was messing around with the build, your name seems familiar. I was probably one of those Mirages lel. o3o

May be, idk. I go all over the place.

[FloaATFourtwnty]

I love Mirage . don't nerf please

[(XBOX)JediMasterWill9]

On 12/4/2016 at 10:09 PM, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

JUST play by yourself. Her copies has already has been stealth nerf. 

 

[ChuckMaverick]

5 minutes ago, Fast_98 said:

How is it the weapon fault? Have you tried using it against a level 100 gunner or bombard? I takes you 15-20 sec for the bombard and 13-15 seconds to kill a gunner. It purpose it to get rid of trash enemies.

Now when I use my HoM build the time to kill a bombard went down to 5 seconds...she is the main reason that this gun consider op.

Nerf it to the ground and then 2 weeks start complaining about the new meta gun that she'll use. But never fix the root of the problem.

It's not the Simulor's fault or Mirage's fault, but the interaction between the two of them.

The fact that the majority of a Simulor's damage comes from orbs merging, together with Hall of Mirrors firing multiple orbs at the same time, scales the damage far higher than it would be with Mirage and any other weapon.