Can we please nerf Mirage + Simulor?

[kyori]

Sometimes I'm happy someone do all the job for me, especially fissure missions. I just stay behind n collect reactants. 

Focus will be farmed more when your teammates kill more than you. So it's another nice example in this. 

[n00b_m0m0]

Just now, kyori said:

Sometimes I'm happy someone do all the job for me, especially fissure missions. I just stay behind n collect reactants. 

Focus will be farmed more when your teammates kill more than you. So it's another nice example in this. 

like so?

[megastorm]

8 minutes ago, Senpai-Pie said:

I like how all the people who don't want to lose their cheese mechanic have the argument of:

Go Solo

Why don't you go solo instead? You're doing all the killing anyways. You don't need a team Why should everyone else go solo because you don't want to? Or are you that unconfident in yourself that even with cheese tactics you need a team?

Because they lose affinity if they go down and get up. Someone has to be there to revive them. And its not fun being the only guy at the end mission screen and can't compare to the group. We play games to smile and feel good about ourselves because life sucks. We need that moment to feel like we are gods.

[Tuxie]

10 minutes ago, Senpai-Pie said:

I like how all the people who don't want to lose their cheese mechanic have the argument of:

Go Solo

Why don't you go solo instead? You're doing all the killing anyways. You don't need a team Why should everyone else go solo because you don't want to? Or are you that unconfident in yourself that even with cheese tactics you need a team?

Because we can play the game however we want, we're not using glitches or exploits and we're not the ones demanding other players to play the way we want them to?

[MrJxt]

14 minutes ago, kyori said:

Sometimes I'm happy someone do all the job for me, especially fissure missions. I just stay behind n collect reactants. 

Focus will be farmed more when your teammates kill more than you. So it's another nice example in this. 

This. I had a Sim Mirage during today's defense sortie and it went by pretty quickly. The mirage focused of groups of enemies while the rest of us picked off single targets/stragglers.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

2 minutes ago, Senpai-Pie said:

So, it basically confirms my theory that people that use this combo are failures in life and their opinion should not be respected. Great.

With all my utmost respect to you my friend,  i use this combo and i am far from being a failure in life

In fact, i am extremely successful, and i am pretty sure a lot would wish to reach my level of success.

Back to the point, as long as you are not violating any rules in this game, you can play any combination you want.

And if for some reason, everytime someone does not like the play style of another player he will ask for a nerf, then i believe the devs won't be doing anything but that. 

And pretty soon we will have a "nerf war" between players :)

Let's consider that they nerfed synoid, players will switch to the simulor, or to tonkor with mirage, or anoother high damage weapon

Then you nerf mirage which was nerfed not a long time ago, they can switch to Nova and ruin your game in spova or slova

Whatever condition is, the fact remains that when someone plays with randoms, he has to expect the good and the bad, almost anything

I ran into several situations where i was not happy with randoms

Solution: either i go solo, or i ask for a squad on my term and condition

Example: i asked players to join me on ODD. one player came as frost, i asked him politely pls no bubble, he simply changed the frame.

My point is nerfing is not always a solution, and we cannot apply it as a solution for everything or problem we don't like

[kyori]

2 minutes ago, MrJxt said:

This. I had a Sim Mirage during today's defense sortie and it went by pretty quickly. The mirage focused of groups of enemies while the rest of us picked off single targets/stragglers.

Yes... it's sad to say that people who are salty are usually people who are angry that they're robbed of all the kills they want to show off at the end mission screen. 

I like being with the highest kill too but I adapt to situation, don't need to be that all the time, as there's no reward or plat for me being having the highest kill. 

[Kronxito]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

I am sick of getting into missions with Mirage that just spam the Simulor. It sucks every bit of fun that the game can provide. Especially if its a defense mission where there is very little room to do much. I have no choice but to stand around and basically do nothing as the Mirage lazily shoots the Simulor and kills everything. Especially if you are using a Warframe like Inaros, Saryn or Atlas which requires alot of moving around and your enemies staying alive for you to be able to perform your abilities. 

 

 

I am all for making the most of your Warframe and what it can do, but this interupts OTHER peoples enjoyment of the game. 

 

Its just like Mesa before she was nerfed. 

In that way, why not nerfing telos boltace too? Stop crying man. Finding a balance in a game with more than 30 different characters and tons of weapons, mods,......is very hard.  There always will be an OP combo as well as an useless combo.

Better buffing weakest points. Never nerf.

 

P.S.: Im a Chroma using vectis prime, akstilleto prime and galatine prime. Never used mirage. Just leveled her for master rank.

Edited December 5, 2016 by ArionLightning

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

I am sick of getting into missions with Mirage that just spam the Simulor. It sucks every bit of fun that the game can provide. Especially if its a defense mission where there is very little room to do much. I have no choice but to stand around and basically do nothing as the Mirage lazily shoots the Simulor and kills everything. Especially if you are using a Warframe like Inaros, Saryn or Atlas which requires alot of moving around and your enemies staying alive for you to be able to perform your abilities. 

What? You put saryn in the list too? Lol, skrub detected. FYI, saryn can outdamage & reach mirage anytime, especially in defense.

2 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

I would LOVE to play solo. Too bad the game insists on putting random people into my group. 

Set matchmaking to solo, again, if you dont know about this then youre a newbie

2 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

I knew it wouldn't take long for the kids to get in here and throw around the "Nerf Mentality" card lol 

How about you listen to my argument rather than just focusing on that word. 

What argument? Your argument is that your getting sick from mirage+simulor combo, it sucks the fun especially in def mission...that to me sounds like an argument from a 10 yo brat.

And also, mirage have been nerfed before. She was able to shoot 5 balls at once, each clone can shoot a simulor ball. Now only 2 of her clones can (meaning 3 balls including herself), and now you want to nerf her again? 

[(PSN)SageHeed]

15 minutes ago, kyori said:

Yes... it's sad to say that people who are salty are usually people who are angry that they're robbed of all the kills they want to show off at the end mission screen.

Any basic Ember build, any Saryn player, any Nova player who knows to press 2, any Excalibur, any bow user, any one of dozens of Warframes and weapons can outdamage Mirage/Simulor easily.

It's not the damage that is annoying. That translates to faster levelling for the rest of us. It's the omnipresent bright orbs obscuring our vision and pulling our loot that drives us crazy, and that fracking non-stop PEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEW sound.

Lower the ammo pool to 35 and keep it otherwise unchanged. This would force players to wait until there are enemies around and at least fire in their general direction.

[NativeKiller]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

Any basic Ember build, any Saryn player, any Nova player who knows to press 2, any Excalibur, any bow user, any one of dozens of Warframes and weapons can outdamage Mirage/Simulor easily.

It's not the damage that is annoying. That translates to faster levelling for the rest of us. It's the omnipresent bright orbs obscuring our vision and pulling our loot that drives us crazy, and that fracking non-stop PEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEW sound.

Lower the ammo pool to 35 and keep it otherwise unchanged. This would force players to wait until there are enemies around and at least fire in their general direction.

Just one question.

 

What about the non-Mirage Simulor users? 35 ammo pool could be very, very, VERY, VERY frustrating for them.

 

Also, lowering the ammo pool isn't going to change much, just make it so that people would have to depend harder on Carrier's Ammo Case, Rifle-Ammo Mutation, Ammo Restores.

Edited December 5, 2016 by NativeKiller

[(PSN)SageHeed]

55 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

Noobs don't have synoid, so we do not need to nerf it for them

I realize this is me being rude, but in my opinion that's like saying the British don't live in England.

[(PSN)SageHeed]

1 minute ago, NativeKiller said:

Just one question.

 

What about the non-Mirage Simulor users?

 

Also, lowering the ammo pool isn't going to change much, just make people depend harder on Carrier's Ammo Case, Rifle-Ammo Mutation, Ammo Restores.

Ammo restores are costly, if anyone wants to rely on them it's their choice. And by installing Ammo Mutation they have to give up other mods, perhaps at the cost of lower damage, encouraging different builds and pro/con considerations which is the lifeblood of modding.

[NativeKiller]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

Ammo restores are costly, if anyone wants to rely on them it's their choice. And by installing Ammo Mutation they have to give up other mods, perhaps at the cost of lower damage, encouraging different builds and pro/con considerations which is the lifeblood of modding.

No, what I am saying is that lowering the ammo pool isn't going to do much, it's just going to mess around with QoL and freedom of choice.

 

Personally, if something like this happened, I would just say "Great, once again, D.E failed to accomplish anything except for nudging people towards using Carrier Prime EVEN MORE. AMMO CASE FTW"

 

I am personally, a Carrier Prime lover, only using Helios for scans, but you know, just saying.

Edited December 5, 2016 by NativeKiller

[(PSN)SageHeed]

6 minutes ago, NativeKiller said:

Just one question.

 

What about the non-Mirage Simulor users? 35 ammo pool could be very, very, VERY, VERY frustrating for them.

 

Also, lowering the ammo pool isn't going to change much, just make people depend harder on Carrier's Ammo Case, Rifle-Ammo Mutation, Ammo Restores.

With this latest edit you simultaneously state that my proposed change of limiting the ammo pool to 35 would pose a great hurdle to users and that it would not.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

I realize this is me being rude, but in my opinion that's like saying the British don't live in England.

True, they live in Dubai (where i live too)   :XD

[Xgomme]

3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

This would require a simple tweak: make mirage clones no longer produce singularities or blasts.

Aka revert the bad change they made a long time ago

 

At start it was like this, no simularities for Mirage, only a bunch load of basic simulor bullets. More fun, less broken

 

Bring it back !

[(PSN)SageHeed]

1 minute ago, NativeKiller said:

No, what I am saying is that lowering the ammo pool isn't going to do much, but just mess around with QoL.

 

Personally, if something like this happened, I would just say "Great, D.E didn't manage to accomplish anything but just nudge people towards using Carrier Prime EVEN MORE."

This assumes that the primary concern is keeping the Simulor as one of the most used weapons in the game.

If you'd want to keep spamming the Simulor, then yes, you'd best equip Carrier. But maybe, hopefully, it would encourage a lot of users to equip a different weapon once in a while. There are hundreds to choose from.

[NativeKiller]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

With this latest edit you simultaneously state that my proposed change of limiting the ammo pool to 35 would pose a great hurdle to users and that it would not.

Read carefully, what I meant was "It won't balance things out, but just mess with QoL"

 

In other words, it won't offer a real challenge... just impose another fake difficulty/challenge. 

Edited December 5, 2016 by NativeKiller

[Yagamilight123]

2 hours ago, Midrib said:

Equinox requires you to build up maim, Ember doesn't get past level 40, banshee has stupid high energy cost and is stationary but its probably the only example I agree with you on, and saryn which requires 100 times the brain power that is required to operate a mirage simulor.

1 out of the 4 examples you gave is somewhat valid, and mirage+simulor can easily kill even enemies that are level 100+.

You are welcome to join this thread but valid responses would be appreciated.

Ember can easily do more damage than mirage in enemies +40  .

Banshee ... yes , because you cant have infinite energy in this game (/sarcasm)....

Equinox , you have to build it ? and ? it does more damage than a mirage .... no matter "how" .

Saryn , "100 times more brain power" ? really , "clone , torid shot , 1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 " ... ye , i see a lot of brain power using there .

Edited December 5, 2016 by Yagamilight123

[(PSN)SageHeed]

3 minutes ago, NativeKiller said:

Read carefully, what I meant was "It won't balance things out, but just mess with QoL"

 

In other words, it won't offer a real challenge... just impose more fake difficulty/challenge. 

The fact that with an ammo pool of 35 you'd have to wait until there actually was enemies around and fire in their general direction is hardly a fake challenge.

To purposefully place orbs where they are needed, to keep them up by carefully "feeding" them new orbs ever so often and waiting for enemies to run into position for maximum efficiency, that seems like a fun and different weapon.

Now, because of the practically unlimited ammo pool, people just spam the trigger non-stop throughout the mission. Sometimes they do it for up to a minute after the final enemy has died. That's a bit too much Q to anybody's L.

[(PSN)SageHeed]

15 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said:

Saryn , "100 times more brain power" ? really , "clone , torid shot , 1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 ,1 " ... ye , i see a lot of brain power using there .

That's the point though. Even being that simplistic it's still more complex than perpetually mashing the fire button on the Simulor without even bothering to check if there are enemies alive or not.

[Fuemego]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

I am sick of getting into missions with Mirage that just spam the Simulor. It sucks every bit of fun that the game can provide. Especially if its a defense mission where there is very little room to do much. I have no choice but to stand around and basically do nothing as the Mirage lazily shoots the Simulor and kills everything. Especially if you are using a Warframe like Inaros, Saryn or Atlas which requires alot of moving around and your enemies staying alive for you to be able to perform your abilities. 

 

 

I am all for making the most of your Warframe and what it can do, but this interupts OTHER peoples enjoyment of the game. 

 

Its just like Mesa before she was nerfed. 

What if the Mirage + Synd Sim user is enjoying the game? I suggest you play with friends or alone or reroll pub. Better chance of avoiding what you hate.

 

 

[NativeKiller]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

The fact that with an ammo pool of 35 you'd have to wait until there actually was enemies around and fire in their general direction is hardly a fake challenge.

To purposefully place orbs where they are needed, to keep them up by carefully "feeding" them new orbs ever so often and waiting for enemies to run into position for maximum efficiency, that seems like a fun and different weapon.

Now, because of the practically unlimited ammo pool, people just spam the trigger non-stop throughout the mission. Sometimes they do it for up to a minute after the final enemy has died. That's a bit too much Q to anybody's L.

I personally don't remember seeing any non-Mirage players spamming with their Simulors even when there are no enemies.

 

Also, an ammo pool of 35 for a weapon that needs multiple shots overlapping in order to make a vortex seems kinda too harsh.

 

Maybe, 45, more likely 60 could be more reasonable, but not 35 if you ask me.

 

Just saying.

Edited December 5, 2016 by NativeKiller

[Yagamilight123]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

That's the point though. Even being that simplistic it's still more complex than perpetually mashing the fire button on the Simulor without even bothering to check if there are enemies alive or not.

How ? again , it take to use mostly your "1" key ... you dont need to aim (even less than with the simulor ) dont need to see where enemies are ,  dont need to move , dont need to care if they are alive or not , when the text "wave cleared" appears , you stop . Where do you see the more "complex" part ? Smashing 1 is more difficult than smashing right click ?

Pd : And i imagine that you dont even test thing before post because your suggest to "nerf" ammo pool ... with 35 ammo mirage can do the same that she do with 125 (maybe she can run out in some boss fight ... but ammo pad exist )  ... with carrier , you never are below of 100 ammo no matter how much you spam . And with your "change" , you destroy simulor for other frames that need more than one shot to kill a room .

Edited December 5, 2016 by Yagamilight123