@DE: It finally is time to change getting one-shotted!

[kyori]

1 minute ago, arch111 said:

What is most rewarding? Fighting off hordes with Meta or defeating smart enemies by using skill?

None. I am only satisfied when I get the thing I want to farm. Killing enemies in whatever way is just another everyday thing in warframe, nothing new.

[DawnThade]

8 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Dark Souls is thrown around alot here. They seem to have succede.

This comparison always bothers me. Bring any dark souls enemy into warframe and watch a slow nova/Bastille Vauban wreck them because it doesn't matter how smart the AI is if they have no resistance to the wave of AoE CC/Damage headed towards them.

I have no problem with a better AI/tactics but the player abilities would have to be nerfed significantly to make that better AI/tactics matter but you've seen how people can get with a simple rework of  a warframe ability.

Edited December 6, 2016 by DawnThade

[Genesis7000]

28 minutes ago, Extroah said:

Yeah, but how often does somebody with beginner > mid game Gear play Missions Lv 100+ ? I agree that something has to be done, but i don't think it's a high priority for them right now.

To be fair the game has other things they should look on first.

[Vicious_Vipa]

8 minutes ago, arch111 said:

I personally would prefer LESS enemies and BETTER AI and tactics.

What is most rewarding? Fighting off hordes with Meta or defeating smart enemies by using skill?

Dark Souls is thrown around alot here. They seem to have succede.

amen.   I agree 100%

but this was discussed many times, too.  And the result was that most WF players just want to slay the
"train" of incoming grineer hordes and feel like semi-gods.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[CaliburxZero]

58 minutes ago, Tuxie said:

No you see, insta-kills are *skillful*, they're *content* and they present a legitimate *challenge*. If anything, you're too strong! We need to nerf you registered losers down to nothing and fill the screen with infinitely more sapping ospreys and nullifiers.

Seriously though, they said that they were gonna fix that, it was a long, long time ago and I'm not too sure if they remember seeing as all the changes lately has just been nerfs on our side, but still, least they kinda know the problem is there? So there's hope, maybe? The fix is probably gonna come with a bunch of caveats though, because lord knows we can't have quality of life improvements without several strings attached.

Oh, its obvious they either forgot or simply don't care anymore when it comes to being one-shot.  That being said... your post is depressing but very true.  I forget who made this point in the forums but it rings true here:

If you want to marginalize the players, the players will want to marginalize your game.

[Deger27]

Ok... Lets see..... hmmm .. right. So DE doesnt do anything about getting one shotted. Let see .....

K...

Vitality ... Check

Redirection ... Check

Steel Fiber ... Check

Quick Thinking ... Check

hmm nope, I do think your wrong sir .. please check your selected mods on your warframe. 

Oh and side note. Saw mentioned that valkyr even with steel fiber couldnt survive a shot from a lvl 200 bombard ... actually .. please check your build again cuz mine can.

Valkyr Prime with 2332.4 armor when fully buffed with my eternal war build. not even using the Stand united mod. Then too i guess im that crazy guy that likes to make impossible builds out of warframes and weapons

Heres a puzzle for you, my ember runs 275% Pwr Str, 145% Pwr Rng, 175% Pwr Eff and 78% Pwr Dur and walks through lvl 80 grineer like a warm knife through butter.

Anyhoo, Happy gaming =)

Edited December 6, 2016 by Deger27

[onieyez]

prepare to get one shotted more and more, because there seems to be a group of people on warframe that just wants to nerf cc and everything that makes your warframe powerful

[Tuxie]

1 hour ago, EmptyDevil said:

I sure hope the red is sarcasm.

I'm really curious as to why you seemingly dislike balance.

 

It is sarcasm, I thought the * * would be pretty obvious. (But I can see how you might think I was being serious, seeing as there's a very vocal minority of players who seems to can't get enough when it comes to nerfs)

Edited December 6, 2016 by Tuxie

[vladimmi]

1 hour ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

EVERY frame is squishy against a level 200 Bombard.  There it doesnt matter anymore if you are Banshee or Valkyr with Steel Fibre on.

Nope, because you can be invisible, you can disable or kill bombard before he shots you, you can keep them far away, you can block their shots with shields... Any reason you should be able to just stay in place and be alive under heavy damage?

There are players who want the reverse. There should be more hard enemies, more challenging locations with great rewards because sorties are not so hard and raids are more boring than challenging. Why top available planets have enemy levels so low so, for example, Sedna interceptions are full of players with just built warframes/weapons to rank up?

[Marvelous_A]

It's not too bad as DE removed long run awhile ago, when they "blew up" the old void. However, I would propose the following:

-Introduce new health restore method. Or just make life strike innate to melee weapons which I find more convenient.

-Introduce quick block button so you can block when not using melee weapons. Easy approach to increase survivability of frames in high level missions.

 

[SeaUrchins]

4 minutes ago, vladimmi said:

Any reason you should be able to just stay in place and be alive under heavy damage?

Any reason you want to have missiles flying after you making 360 turns?

Any reason you want enemies to point their gun at you when you are behind an obstacle?

Any reason you want enemies to deal damage before the shot animation is played and you are the host?

Any reason you want enemies being able to shoot in 360 fov no matter which direction they are facing?

 

All these issues have nothing to do with how long you can stay in mission, they represent aiming being broken and in need of fixes. It is not challenging or difficult, it is unimmersive and poorly executed. Going invisible, killing or blocking solves neither of the above, it is dealing with consequences, not with the problem itself.

[Vicious_Vipa]

55 minutes ago, Deger27 said:

Ok... Lets see..... hmmm .. right. So DE doesnt do anything about getting one shotted. Let see .....

K...

Vitality ... Check

Redirection ... Check

Steel Fiber ... Check

Quick Thinking ... Check

hmm nope, I do think your wrong sir .. please check your selected mods on your warframe. 

Oh and side note. Saw mentioned that valkyr even with steel fiber couldnt survive a shot from a lvl 200 bombard ... actually .. please check your build again cuz mine can.

Valkyr Prime with 2332.4 armor when fully buffed with my eternal war build. not even using the Stand united mod. Then too i guess im that crazy guy that likes to make impossible builds out of warframes and weapons

Heres a puzzle for you, my ember runs 275% Pwr Str, 145% Pwr Rng, 175% Pwr Eff and 78% Pwr Dur and walks through lvl 80 grineer like a warm knife through butter.

Anyhoo, Happy gaming =)

so...  do you really think that making "impossible builds" and withstanding this particular scenario just about proves your point?

And maybe not everyone wants to use the tankiest frame with an "impossible build" ?    Maybe they just want to play this game with their desired frame and only ask for a chance to react and to counter instead of dying without even knowing what happend.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[vladimmi]

1 minute ago, SeaUrchins said:

Any reason you want to have missiles flying after you making 360 turns?

Why not? After all, you can shot it (in theory, never did it myself, probably), you can hide from it behind obstacles, etc.

2 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

Any reason you want enemies to point their gun at you when you are behind an obstacle?

Because they can hear you? Because they use technologies like radars and so on to detect you?

3 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

Any reason you want enemies to deal damage before the shot animation is played and you are the host?

Agree, nothing to say.

3 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

Any reason you want enemies being able to shoot in 360 fov no matter which direction they are facing?

That enemy can be drone with 360-degree sensors, psyonic with extra abilities or soldier using some tech to detect enemies nearby - same way you can see enemies marks on your radar and even analyze their warning level.

[Deger27]

2 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

so...  do you really think that making "impossible builds" and just withstanding this particular scenario proves your point?

And maybe not everyone wants to use the tankiest frame with an "impossible build" ?    Maybe they just want to play this game with their desired frame and only ask for a chance to react and to counter instead of dying without even knowing what happend.

I'm pretty sure that if your going to go up against lvl 200 enemies that your going to build for it BEFORE you go up against them. I can honestly say that no one in their right mind accidentally goes up against lvl 200 enemies. So then there is no reason to bring a squishy frame to lvl 200 enemies ... Of course your going to get one shot lol

[SeaUrchins]

6 minutes ago, vladimmi said:

That enemy can be drone with 360-degree sensors, psyonic with extra abilities

You realize not all players want to make up imaginary reasons to justify broken game mechanics and want some improvements to the gameplay instead? Why would you want to discourage them is beyond me.

Edited December 6, 2016 by SeaUrchins

[vladimmi]

6 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

Why would you want to discourage them is beyond me.

Because I see no broken mechanics behind being one-shotted by one top type of faction units. Bugs with animations and similar - sure, to fix. Powerful enemies that can cause real danger to players - no, they should exist because general mission level is way too casual now.

UPD: same way one can ask to neft Corpus Nullifiers because they are way too overpowered - absolutely immune to any enemy abilities and cannot be one-shot with any players weapon.

Edited December 6, 2016 by vladimmi
added another example

[Vicious_Vipa]

15 minutes ago, Deger27 said:

I'm pretty sure that if your going to go up against lvl 200 enemies that your going to build for it BEFORE you go up against them. I can honestly say that no one in their right mind accidentally goes up against lvl 200 enemies. So then there is no reason to bring a squishy frame to lvl 200 enemies ... Of course your going to get one shot lol

I did a Survival Sortie recently with Volt against Corpus. These enemies were NOT level 200 of course.

After getting one shotted many times I had to realize that the only possible way was to hide in a corner behind my shields (making a mind-note NOT to ever use Volt in such a mission again).

I think that this is not the way the developers had intended for Volt to be played. At least I hope so.

And as mentioned - these enemies were not level 200.  I have a maxed Vitality (of course) but I did not run Steel Fibre and whatnot because it won't do very much on squishy frames anyway and ... again I don't think that this is the way such a frame should be played.

I am ok with having to have fast reaction. And if I still stand somewhere doing nothing after getting shield-gated I am ok with dying! But you'll never get the chance.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[SeaUrchins]

6 minutes ago, vladimmi said:

Powerful enemies that can cause real danger to players - no, they should exist

Which is not the topic. Aiming and scaling has nothing to do with enemies being powerful, it just adds "cheese or die" factor. You can go invisible and cheese 9999 enemies using Ivara and CL, it is hardly rocket science.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by SeaUrchins

[Deger27]

9 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

I did the Survival Sortie day before yesterday with Volt against Corpus. These enemies are NOT level 200 of course.

After getting one shotted many times I had to realize that the only possible way was to hide in a corner behind my shields (making a mind-note NOT to ever use Volt in such a mission again).

I think that this is not the way the developers had intended for Volt to be played. At least I hope so.

And as mentioned - these enemies were not level 200.  I have a maxed Vitality (of course) but I did not run Steel Fibre and whatnot because it won't do very much on squishy frames anyway and ... again I don't think that this is the way such a frame should be played.

I am ok with having to have fast reaction. And if I still stand somewhere doing nothing after getting shield-gated I am ok with dying! But you'll never get the chance.

I respect your opinion but i guess it comes down to player skill and player play style. I will admit I don't play volt as much as i use to as I lost interest in him but in comparison i can say that i use banshee no problem in sorties and she literally is the squishiest frame. So I dono what to tell you.

[PapaFragolino]

1 hour ago, DawnThade said:

This comparison always bothers me. Bring any dark souls enemy into warframe and watch a slow nova/Bastille Vauban wreck them because it doesn't matter how smart the AI is if they have no resistance to the wave of AoE CC/Damage headed towards them.

I have no problem with a better AI/tactics but the player abilities would have to be nerfed significantly to make that better AI/tactics matter but you've seen how people can get with a simple rework of  a warframe ability.

Implying that Dark Souls has a good enemy AI.

[vladimmi]

2 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

Which is not the topic.

Topic is "remove one-shots", my opinion is "no, they should be to cause at least something dangerous to players and because they are easily avoidable". That video just proofs possibility to handle bombards of anything high level. See no reason why you try to go offtopic and discuss other mechanics like units FOV or missiles behavior.

Additionally, I cant see anything bad for space ninjas to constantly run (did you ever seen lazy ninja sitting in the center of enemy pack?) or use tools to protect themselves (Frost sphere, Volt shields, etc).

13 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

I did the Survival Sortie day before yesterday with Volt against Corpus. These enemies are NOT level 200 of course.

After getting one shotted many times I had to realize that the only possible way was to hide in a corner behind my shields (making a mind-note NOT to ever use Volt in such a mission again).

Sure, because that's the one of the ways that frame should be used. You should learn their abilities, pros and cons and choose suitable so if you prefer another style - use another warframe. Possible use of Volt can be melee build with usage of acceleration. Adding Naramon focus school will even make you absolutely invincible.

[minidelight]

2 hours ago, ohestnes said:

No enemy one shot a modded warframe til past sortie levels

lv 60-100 tech corpus will rip apart any squishy frame even with all defensive mods,, one lv 100(sortie3) will fully destroy a proper modded inaros in 2-3 secs. and if you have the bad luck of having a sorties with elemental/physical enemy damage buffs, almost all the frames will be one shotted  by one tech corpus lel.  so yeah we have some problematic enemies atm.

Edited December 6, 2016 by minidelight

[Vicious_Vipa]

13 minutes ago, Deger27 said:

I respect your opinion but i guess it comes down to player skill and player play style. I will admit I don't play volt as much as i use to as I lost interest in him but in comparison i can say that i use banshee no problem in sorties and she literally is the squishiest frame. So I dono what to tell you.

Banshee is viable against high level Grineer and Infested because of her CC abilities.

But not so much against Corpus when you are facing 5 nullifiers in one room and these blue circles and yellow bombs lying everywhere on the ground and whatnot.

But again - having to CC the enemies before they even see you (or you are just dust) is also part of what this thread is about.  

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[Deger27]

1 minute ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

Banshee is viable against high level Grineer and Infested because of her CC abilities.

But not so much against Corpus when you are facing 5 nullifiers in one room and these blue circles lying on the ground and whatnot.

But again - having to CC the enemies before they even see you (or you are just dust) is also part of what this thread is about.  

 

I don't use that build, I use a sonar build.

[Vicious_Vipa]

1 minute ago, Deger27 said:

I don't use that build, I use a sonar build.

And Sonar helps against a wall of Nullifiers and yellow bombs ?

 

Also, how does that make the point forgotten that you have to CC them.  you are just putting nice aim-for-spots on them and don't die?

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa