Saryn's Arcane Chlora Helmet, should it change?

[str4dlin]

Thinking the other day I remember this arcane helmet that existed long ago and, being one of the best when Saryn took advantage of the decrement of duration, has now become unusable since the bonus he brings is insignificant while attacking Saryn where It hurts, in the duration currently.

If it is supposed to be a helmet that should be a contribution as it was I think with the rework of saryn has forgotten these little things that are attached should also be adapted.

What do you think?

Regards

[WhiteMarker]

There is no reason for changes. If this helmet was changed, almost every arcane helmet has to receive a change.
The thing is that before the rework, the helmet had only bonuses for Saryn and no drawback like the all the other helmets. Now the drawback is the loss of duration. Now it's in line with the others.

[Naftal]

1 minute ago, WhiteMarker said:

There is no reason for changes. If this helmet was changed, almost every arcane helmet has to receive a change.
The thing is that before the rework, the helmet had only bonuses for Saryn and no drawback like the all the other helmets. Now the drawback is the loss of duration. Now it's in line with the others.

This.

Also I don't think the devs ever intended -duration to boost old Miasma.

[str4dlin]

9 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

There is no reason for changes. If this helmet was changed, almost every arcane helmet has to receive a change.
The thing is that before the rework, the helmet had only bonuses for Saryn and no drawback like the all the other helmets. Now the drawback is the loss of duration. Now it's in line with the others.

The truth is that there is a big difference between how this helmet affects saryn and how they affect others to other warframes. Just see it:

Ember:

Banshee: 

Rhino: 

 

I do not say that now It must to increase the duration but that it deserves a change.

 

[str4dlin]

12 minutes ago, Naftal said:

This.

Also I don't think the devs ever intended -duration to boost old Miasma.

I think otherwise. That these kinds of things that look like they are not is precisely what allows "play" to the developer.

[WhyNotBro]

4 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

The truth is that there is a big difference between how this helmet affects saryn and how they affect others to other warframes. Just see it:

Ember:

Banshee: 

Rhino: 

 

I do not say that now It must to increase the duration but that it deserves a change.

 

Can't understand what is wrong here?:D Chlora gives parkour velocity and reduces duration...one possitve and one negative effect...what is wrong?:D Why you say nothing about Hemlock, for example, then?:D It gives speed (almost the same kind of bonuses) and reduces health...Or Vanguard...etc. :D

Edited December 9, 2016 by WhyNotBro

[str4dlin]

 

9 minutes ago, WhyNotBro said:

Can't understand what is wrong here?:D Chlora give parkour velocity and reduces duration...one possitve and one negative effect...what is wrong?:D Why you say nothing about Hemlock, for example, then?:D It gives speed (almost the same kind of bonuses) and reduces health...Or Vanguard...etc. :D

What I suggest is that duration on saryn become essential with the rework. Before it, the little decrease of duration was not that significative on positive terms as could be now if DEV do this helmet increase duration, true. But already attacking directly a main stat of the warframe is doing this helmet useless after rework. 
Most of Arcane helmets do not affect main stats of the warframe or do it positively. As they are doing to life, efficency, movement stuff...

Of course you can compare with others that I ve could forget but maybe its also needs someone thinking about.

Edited December 9, 2016 by str4dlin

[WhyNotBro]

6 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

doing this helmet useless after rework

It's just 5% man :D Even if it counts after all mods equipped. If you want to jump faster (this way doesn't really require duration) - you take this helmet on. If you don't want to sacrifise duration, then do not take this helmet. I don't know :D Doesn't feel like it's a big issue.

[str4dlin]

1 minute ago, WhyNotBro said:

It's just 5% man :D Even if it counts after all mods equipped. If you want to jump faster (this way doesn't really require duration) - you take this helmet on. If you don't want to sacrifise duration, then do not take this helmet. I don't know :D Doesn't feel like it's a big issue.

If you try to build saryn correctly you will notice ,if you equip this helmet, at the end duration is affected for more than -5% since damage per second doesnt take care of non-integers.

[WhiteMarker]

10 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

What I suggest is that duration on saryn become essential with the rework. Before it, the little decrease of duration was not that significative on positive terms as could be now if DEV do this helmet increase duration, true. But already attacking directly a main stat of the warframe is doing this helmet useless after rework.

Fun thing is the helmet was always like that. And Saryn always used alot of duration.
But people only used her 4 with a low duration build. Now people using her with high duration builds. And all of a sudden the helmet has "bad" stats".

And as someone already asked: Why are you not talking about other helmets?
Ash's Scorpion Helmet reduces his Power Efficiency. That's and huge impact.
Rhino's helmets reduce his health, what he kind of needs as a tank-kind of frame, or his speed, what he already has not much of.
Trinity has a helmet which reduces Power Efficiency as well.
One of Vauban's helmets reduces Power Duration as well. And he always used Duration in his Meta-Builds.
So tell me, why does the Chlora Helmet need a change?
Aside from that: Why would you even use this arcane helmet. There are Arcane Enhancements way more useful than the bonus of the helmet.

[direcyphre]

Hate to break it to you, but all arcane helmets have negatives. How they effect you specifically varies for all arcane helmets. If you can't deal with the negative on this particular helmet because it now effects your build, switch to something else and use a parkour mod in the slot that's made for it.

Arcane helmets aren't in the game any longer, and their effects were always minor. The next time they change is whenever a system drastically effects an existing mechanic, like parkour or damage.

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, str4dlin said:

What do you think?

I think since I am not paying 5k+ for an arcane helmet in trade and there is zero opportunity to obtain any in-game on my own that those with this or any arcane helmet should be happy they have it.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Xekrin

[str4dlin]

15 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Fun thing is the helmet was always like that. And Saryn always used alot of duration.
But people only used her 4 with a low duration build. Now people using her with high duration builds. And all of a sudden the helmet has "bad" stats".

And as someone already asked: Why are you not talking about other helmets?
Ash's Scorpion Helmet reduces his Power Efficiency. That's and huge impact.
Rhino's helmets reduce his health, what he kind of needs as a tank-kind of frame, or his speed, what he already has not much of.
Trinity has a helmet which reduces Power Efficiency as well.
One of Vauban's helmets reduces Power Duration as well. And he always used Duration in his Meta-Builds.
So tell me, why does the Chlora Helmet need a change?
Aside from that: Why would you even use this arcane helmet. There are Arcane Enhancements way more useful than the bonus of the helmet.

Ash is not efficency based.
There are rhino's builds working with 0% increased life since Iron Skin is giving you. Players playing redirection instead to survive until they reactivate Iron Skin.
EV trinity doesnt deserve efficency
And for Vauban:

32 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

Of course you can compare with others that I ve could forget but maybe its also needs someone thinking about.

I dont say they should break this helmet again but is one of the only ones that negatively affects to a greater extent. And it is caused by a later rework.

What I would like is just balance.

 

EDIT: Knowing that it will not happen

Edited December 9, 2016 by str4dlin

[str4dlin]

12 minutes ago, direcyphre said:

Hate to break it to you, but all arcane helmets have negatives. How they effect you specifically varies for all arcane helmets. If you can't deal with the negative on this particular helmet because it now effects your build, switch to something else and use a parkour mod in the slot that's made for it.

Arcane helmets aren't in the game any longer, and their effects were always minor. The next time they change is whenever a system drastically effects an existing mechanic, like parkour or damage.

I agree you but you have said "their effects were always minor" and it is not now for this helmet. 

[WhiteMarker]

3 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

Ash is not efficency based.

Just what are you talking about? Ash without efficiency? Especially after the rework? Just go, and play him. Then we can talk again.

3 minutes ago, str4dlin said:

There are rhino's builds working with 0% increased life

I just waited for something like that.
There are Saryn Builds without duration. So case closed. No more discussion needed. There is no need for a change. You said it yourself. ^^

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by WhiteMarker
Kleine Änderung

[str4dlin]

1 hour ago, WhiteMarker said:

Just what are you talking about? Ash without efficiency? Especially after the rework? Just go, and play him. Then we can talk again.

I just waited for something like that.
There are Saryn Builds without duration. So case closed. No more discussion needed. There is no need for a change. You said it yourself. ^^

 

Not efficency based doesnt meant doesnt need efficency. The efficiency in ash does not affect the same as the duration in saryn first because new ash is extremely efficient and low cost of skills what does negative efficency affect to a lesser extent. I repeat I suggest just balance. Do some maths then we talk again.

Wich build of saryn is not duration based? Or do you just talk?

Edited December 9, 2016 by str4dlin

[Callback]

You're comparing it to good helmets.

 

Why not compare it to some bad helmets?

Scorpion, Flux, Meridian, Gambit.

 

[str4dlin]

22 minutes ago, Callback said:

You're comparing it to good helmets.

 

Why not compare it to some bad helmets?

Scorpion, Flux, Meridian, Gambit.

 

I have actually done it, with the helmets other people suggested yet.

1 hour ago, str4dlin said:

Ash is not efficency based.
There are rhino's builds working with 0% increased life since Iron Skin is giving you. Players playing redirection instead to survive until they reactivate Iron Skin.
EV trinity doesnt deserve efficency
And for Vauban:

I dont say they should break this helmet again but is one of the only ones that negatively affects to a greater extent. And it is caused by a later rework.

What I would like is just balance.

 

EDIT: Knowing that it will not happen

After I had said yet I am not here to compare at all. Im here to "check" balance. YES compare, but with the average.

2 hours ago, str4dlin said:

Of course you can compare with others that I ve could forget but maybe its also needs someone thinking about.

I am talking of saryn chlora helmet. If you feel some other is unbalanced on average, make a list, I ve could forget or unknown, do a thread or comment here same and we talk about. I will probably support your idea.

If you read all my analysis you will see I am taking much care of what I say and being clear because I'm here.  What I do not think everyone has done here challenging an argument from the beginning I think it has not been heard at all.
Anyways I said yet:

1 hour ago, str4dlin said:

What I would like is just balance.

EDIT: Knowing that it will not happen

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by str4dlin

[taiiat]

it gives a Parkour bonus. and if you want that, you take the negative.

there's no problem.