Riven Mods: a path to despair

[Mudfam]

Ok, I've heavily invested into this atrocity for a month now. I tried to do what it was meant to do, picked up just one old weapon and tried to make it good (well, sort of OK at least) again.

After spending 2000+ platinum, investing countless hours into farming kuva with a booster and rolling 9 rivens for the same weapon ~10 times each I am frankly quite furious at what a horribly unpleasant and fruitless time it has been. I'm disgusted and the thought of playing Warframe just brings me ill feelings now.

Stop ignoring the issue DE, lots of people are seriously pissed off about this, it's been a month and you've done nothing.

All other glaring issues aside, the increasing cycles and kuva cost is completely freaking outrageous. You expect us to invest a seriously enormous amount of time and effort into these mods, only to see them get gradually WORSE?!?

This is seriously sadistic, it's just pure evil. Get rid of it, now. Stop ignoring us.

 

TL;DR: the increasing cycles and kuva cost, get rid of it, now.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Mudfam

[marshmellory]

11 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

This is seriously sadistic, it's just pure evil. Get rid of it, now. Stop ignoring us.

someone likes their hyperboles.

but anyways, riven mods are unfortunately RNG based so there will always be a group of people who are dissatisfied with it. your experience seems to have been a fairly bad one whereas I and many other people have been able to get decent riven mods for several weapons. 

13 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

All other glaring issues aside, the increasing cycles and kuva cost is completely freaking outrageous. You expect us to invest a seriously enormous amount of time and effort into these mods, only to see them get gradually WORSE?!?

you may want to elaborate on all these unstated "glaring issues" and how to fix them - DE can't do anything if you just post a rant thread instead of legitimate feedback.

[Doc-Orange]

I bought some real good mods for a fair price. I rerolled 2 mods for about 100k kuva and got 2 which I could sell for a fair price. So for me its OK.

[Volinus7]

Working as intended

[Buff00n]

I think you're doing it backwards, friend.  

If you start out with a particular weapon in mind, and then laser focus on getting a god-tier Riven for just that one weapon, then of course you're going to be frustrated.  It just doesn't work that way.  

The core idea is to get a Riven Mod first, and then take a second look at whatever weapon it's for.  If you absolutely can't see yourself trying it then maybe the next Riven will be for a weapon more to your liking.  If you get one for a weapon you're interested in, then just look at it as an opportunity to replace two or three mods with one, and roll until something fits that description or you hit 10 rolls.

If you roll with the randomness rather than fighting it then you will have a much better time.  I already have three successful Riven'd weapons that I actually use, without trading and without re-rolling anything more than 7-8 times.  Maybe my definition of success is looser, but I'd argue that it's allowing me to have more fun.

[Mudfam]

More lottery winners come to express their satisfaction. Great contribution, look at these forums instead of your own shiny mod.

The point, clearly, is that we don't have obtainable goals here. Do the maths (you can even use WF builder now) and you'll see that chances of getting an actually worthwhile mod are incredibly small, especially for non meta weapons that don't have those multiple meta weapon stats that can easily be buffed. There is no way a mediocre riven mod can replace 2 or 3 other mods, just maybe some QoL mods that you wouldn't use on a weapon that is already underpowered. Getting a riven that can replace something like heavy caliber without having worse downsides is actually extremely difficult for most weapons.

This is hardly just my experience, and I've gathered data and analysed the system to death. Everything in warframe so far has been grindy but obtainable, this is an entirely different beast.

 

28 minutes ago, marshmellory said:

you may want to elaborate on all these unstated "glaring issues" and how to fix them - DE can't do anything if you just post a rant thread instead of legitimate feedback.

I have posted about these issues several times, and offered very specific and effective ways to fix them, as have many others. I haven't simply asked for the grind to be reduced, or to make it all easier, I've carefully considered ways to improve the balance and overall value of the system that would absolutely benefit DE above anyone else. It seems they just don't listen, or they have developed some seriously bad tunnel vision. Instead we get crap like nitain added to sorties in the patches and not even a bloody honest response to our concerns.

So, I've given up on giving detailed feedback and offering ways to substantially improve the game. I mean look at arcanes, how long have they been around and utterly broken for? Instead I'll stick to simple and extremely obvious fixes that could and should be implemented in a matter of minutes.

[marshmellory]

7 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

Instead I'll stick to simple and extremely obvious fixes that could and should be implemented in a matter of minutes.

so.

what would those be?

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I just want to actually get a riven mod without going to chat. If they were easier to get then it would be fine but if you get garbage--IE a sentinel weapon rewarded to you from the war within and nothing from sorties, then it's no bueno.

[Mudfam]

2 minutes ago, marshmellory said:

so.

what would those be?

As per my original post: " the increasing cycles and kuva cost ... Get rid of it, now"

This is like insta hotifx material. One of those "oh **** we completely broke the game" moments.

Threads pop up every day requesting this change. We are investing time, effort and money into eventually making our riven mods completely worthless. And then what? Start again? This is just completely backwards. I honestly can't begin to understand how anyone could look at this idea and not laugh at how hilariously cruel and stupid it would be.

[marshmellory]

1 hour ago, Mudfam said:

As per my original post: " the increasing cycles and kuva cost ... Get rid of it, now"

This is like insta hotifx material. One of those "oh **** we completely broke the game" moments.

Threads pop up every day requesting this change. We are investing time, effort and money into eventually making our riven mods completely worthless. And then what? Start again? This is just completely backwards. I honestly can't begin to understand how anyone could look at this idea and not laugh at how hilariously cruel and stupid it would be.

yeah, i would agree that the increased costs are a little ridiculous. even with the new flood (?) missions with the higher level enemies which can get you more kuva total, costs still escalate so quickly that at a certain point  you will have to do a ridiculous amount of missions to reroll your mod once, which still has no guarantee to give you better stats.

maybe an option where you can pay however much it costs to reroll your mods stats, but instead it just sets it to 0 rerolls? i doubt they are planning to get rid of the escalating costs (they already lowered them, instead of removing them entirely) but it should definitely either have a cap/reset or another method to ensure that you are able to get what you want without spending thousands of kuva/platinum.

[erny0507]

I smelled from far away that the rivens would be an awful experience, only for traders really. So until we can change the weapon the mod is for (sorry some weapon need a straight buff and i cant be asked to farm for a tier god level riven for that old weapon),randomize each stat separate, cap on cost of re roll and a way of get them out of the sorties cause now are rare, until all of that is fixed i wont care at about about rivens. 

[CY13ERPUNK]

ok on one hand  the OP is clearly just raging and there is a lot of hyperbole [and lets be real, u basically dug your own grave here, i realized the riven system was trash and i didnt have to thro thousands of plat at it to figure it out]

but on the other hand... the riven system as a whole is pretty awful, like its freaking terrible

why push out rivens BEFORE the Dmg v3.0 reworks and the removal/integration of the core base dmg mods? just why?

why push out the rivens in such an 'incomplete' stage? only primaries? how about wait until we have an equal chance for ALL rivens [ie 2ndaries and melee too]

why have such ridiculous requirements to 'unveil' the mods? instead of having more function 'achievement' type of things like : hunt down all of the 3 assassins [ie zanuka/stalker/g3] or defeat xyz bosses using only a 2ndary or melee or defeat each boss at least once or etc, etc, etc, instead of stupid/silly requirements like complete a 10 min survival by doing zero dmg... ok ya thats real fun, just run around and grab air and ignore all the enemies and get no loot from a mission just to unlock a stupid mod that is most likely a garbage hind mod that give +87% recoil and +99% mag size and -84% dmg.... =/ EPIC FACEPALM

and why the abstract limit of 15? why not just tie it to MR? would the lowbies be mad? they might not even have the walk within unlocked yet, so in that case it wouldnt matter, and for those around the low teens, they would at least have a goal to raise their limits, and would 22-23 rivens be 'too much' ? doubtful

why stack moar UNNECESSARILY pointless RNG on top of a system that already NEEDS a fundamental rework? 

i dont think that adding the rivens to the sortie reward table is a bad idea however, but of course putting nitain in there is just disgusting and despicable

when i think of all the other potential/possible things that could have been worked on or put ingame instead of rivens, my heart just drops... : stance mods for kubrows/kavats [to determine their aggressiveness/behavior] , more augment mods for frames/melee/primary/2ndary , something dojo related , better scythes [ie larger than pickaxes] , giving the kuva fortress a reason to exist [ie a reason for players to return to the space, becuz surprise, no kuva in the kuva fortress] , new frame mods , rework the awful QoL mods for the throwing melee and give them each a 2nd attribute [make them NM mods if need be] , give +1 companion slot per 15 MR [ie a cat and dog or a sent and pet] etc , etc , etc

[brainjelly2g0]

My first Riven was for the Grakata. I hated it. I never liked the Grakatas ammo economy or its aesthetics, but the Riven modified crit, and I'd never touched the Prisma variant. So when Baro rolls around, I pick it up, and try it out.

 

5(maybe 6) forma, and 20,000 Kuva later, the Prisma Grakata is now my favorite weapon. I understand not everyones experience will be the same, or as positive as mine. However, I do believe DE has accomplished the goal somewhat, in that underused weapons are being used more often. I actually saw an MR20 using the Hind, level 30 and everything. 

[Mudfam]

8 hours ago, marshmellory said:

i doubt they are planning to get rid of the escalating costs (they already lowered them, instead of removing them entirely) but it should definitely either have a cap/reset or another method to ensure that you are able to get what you want without spending thousands of kuva/platinum.

If the escalating cost came with some reward/progress it might make some kind of sense. Problem is, it does the opposite! It adds a cycle to your mod and escalates the cost further until its worthless trash. We are investing ever more and more and more into a mod with the most likely outcome being having to finally dissolve it into a smidge of endo. GG.

Imagine if formaing a weapon only had a incredibly small chance of actually working, and with each failure the forma cost increased. Eventually, you'd have to discard the weapon and start all over again in the vague hope that this time you might make it all the way. Would you feel rewarded for your effort? How many failures do you think it would take before you decided this game is utter BS and not worth your time? And compared to rivens weapons are very cheap and easy to come by.

It's a perfectly apt comparison. Just because riven mods are new doesn't mean we should not look objectively at how this system works and realise it's enitrely preposterous.

[Mudfam]

6 hours ago, brainjelly2g0 said:

My first Riven was for the Grakata. I hated it. I never liked the Grakatas ammo economy or its aesthetics, but the Riven modified crit, and I'd never touched the Prisma variant. So when Baro rolls around, I pick it up, and try it out.

 

5(maybe 6) forma, and 20,000 Kuva later, the Prisma Grakata is now my favorite weapon. I understand not everyones experience will be the same, or as positive as mine. However, I do believe DE has accomplished the goal somewhat, in that underused weapons are being used more often. I actually saw an MR20 using the Hind, level 30 and everything. 

 

I've also had some positive experience with the riven system. The first mod I received from the quest was for the zhuge, a weapon I had ranked for mastery and left to collect dust just because no one seemed to think much of it. The mod was ok, and turns out the zhuge is pretty great. I eventually rerolled the mod and it became seriously powerful, I now use the zhuge a lot.

That's all fine and dandy, but doesn't give me anything to do. This is the only consequential feature added to the game in a long time, I've done everything else already. This is the new "end-game", and I don't want to just use the zhuge from now on.

I've rolled a whole lot more mods than the 9 mentioned here, must be about 30. Besides that lucky roll on the zhuge, I've gotten nothing worth using, worth picking up another weapon for. I want to try out new weapons I haven't given a fair chance before, I could see myself spending a lot of time on a revised arsenal, formaing weapons left and right etc. The idea is pretty great, in theory.

But no. These are unobtainable goals. It's just a hopeless battle with no rewards, an ever increasing grind that eventually leads to losing the thing we've been grinding for! It's backwards, it's no fun, it's the exact opposite of rewarding.

If you want good rivens farming plat and trading is the only viable path, and that's a seriously ugly path. It's the journey that matters, not the destiation. We're supposed to play, have fun and eventually be rewarded right? Not stare at trade chat until our eyes bleed so we can conduct shady deals, it's a hollow victory to say the least.

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

On 13.12.2016 at 1:41 AM, Mudfam said:

I've heavily invested into this atrocity for a month now...

...2000+ platinum, investing countless hours into farming kuva...

 

On 13.12.2016 at 1:41 AM, Mudfam said:

You expect us to invest a seriously enormous amount of time and effort into these mods, only to see them get gradually WORSE?!?

Hmm... Something doesn't add up.

[Extroah]

On 12/13/2016 at 1:36 AM, Mudfam said:

More lottery winners come to express their satisfaction. Great contribution, look at these forums instead of your own shiny mod.

 

The Majority of players (75%> i'd guess) don't use the forums, so this doesn't really make much sense. And the Forum is 50/50 Split on Rivens.

The biggest Issue is the new 3 Slot for 60 Plat thing they've done what got people upset, including me to an extend even though i like Rivens, but this is madness.

[MobyTheDuck]

This thread is a good example of why you dont bother with a broken, rushed, shoehorned, badly made feature.

If instead of throwing money at them, you just ignored the whole thing so they could take a hint and change it for the better, you decided to bet.

And you know what they say, the house always wins.

[Coaa]

Considering how much a perfect rolled riven sells for on pretty much any weapon, I feel the kuva cost is justified. If you remove the cap, and keep it low then people are just going to keep getting obnoxiously rich off of these things with even less effort.

If you want a 100% perfect roll, you are going to have to put in the time to get it. I've had rivens cost over 15k to reroll and i'm still going at them because that one good roll and I just made 2-3k plat easily, or brought my favorite gun to endgame.