Operator dialogue makes no sense

[(PSN)underthumb]

The Tenno are assassins. They may be principled assassins, but they are killers. In some cases, they are hired killers.

So when I land on a Grineer ship and the Lotus orders me to murder over one hundred and fifty Grineer--to literally leave no one standing, it's pretty god damn funny to hear my Operator call the Grineer "creepy".  Yup, they sure are "creepy" my Operator thinks, as she plunges her sword into the guts of the 70th Grineer she has encountered on the ship, the blood splattering on the wall behind her victim.

Or when I'm on a Corpus installation, and my Operator says that she will "put an end to their greed". Well, apparently the only way to do that is Corpus genocide. It's especially ironic that I'm saying this as I'm raiding all of their supplies, stealing everything I can find, all while grousing about their "greed".

Just stop with this kind of dialogue. The Tenno are not heroes. The Warframe universe has factions that are far more evil than the Tenno, but that's just a relative measure. By any reasonable moral standards, the Tenno are a murder cult. So we should have Operator dialogue that reflects (or elides) the moral ambiguity present in their actions. Things along the lines of:

"Duty before all."

"Nothing can stop us."

"The Grineer have forfeited their right to live."

"It's time to take what the Corpus value most: their resources."

 

 

[Xardis]

Thats why I turned my dialoges off. The dont represent what me, as in, Operator stands for. And even if it would, why would I talk to myself?

[Volinus7]

Tenno are affected by chuunibyou thinking they're some kind of power rangers or intergalactic police.

[EvilChaosKnight]

You forgot the MOST ironic one.

"They have plenty of robotics. Corpus never fight for themselves" - Said overglorified UAV (combat drone) operator. XD

[(PSN)underthumb]

8 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

You forgot the MOST ironic one.

"They have plenty of robotics. Corpus never fight for themselves" - Said overglorified UAV (combat drone) operator. XD

Good point! That is a truly eye-rolling statement.

[Xekrin]

My favorite or rather the one I least like to hear, is there a word for that? is when they say "So... the Corpus are just a cult, worshiping money."  Its as bad as when the Lotus does her 'tutorial' speeches.  Acting like this is the first time ever they've encountered them or something.

*shudders*

The Raven voice is the best sounding BTW!

[Trichouette]

"my warframe is strong"

said out of nowhere while slicing enemies

[[DE]Momaw]

Turned off my operator dialog during missions for this reason.

Personally I want my Tenno to be serious, powerful, stern, but a little sad. An adult mind that is hundreds of years old, confronted by multiple lifetimes of brutality. Perhaps with a chance to rediscover their humanity now that they've woken up and can socialize with people who aren't either commanders or victims, but for the present deadened and isolated out of necessity to preserve their sanity.  Instead in TWW we get a sassy teenager who reacts like a child to being called a child.

I think DE is still experimenting with the right "tone" for the Tenno. Whatever else you can say about Warframe, it's constantly evolving :D

[Bizzaro21]

43 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

You forgot the MOST ironic one.

"They have plenty of robotics. Corpus never fight for themselves" - Said overglorified UAV (combat drone) operator. XD

and said right before getting nullified and murdered by a tech :V

 

 

I agree with OP tbh, operator quotes need a revision... a deep one.....

[(PSN)O1234321]

I will consider what I've learned from this thread.

[(PSN)underthumb]

13 minutes ago, Momaw said:

Turned off my operator dialog during missions for this reason.

Personally I want my Tenno to be serious, powerful, stern, but a little sad. An adult mind that is hundreds of years old, confronted by multiple lifetimes of brutality. Perhaps with a chance to rediscover their humanity now that they've woken up and can socialize with people who aren't either commanders or victims, but for the present deadened and isolated out of necessity to preserve their sanity.  Instead in TWW we get a sassy teenager who reacts like a child to being called a child.

I think DE is still experimenting with the right "tone" for the Tenno. Whatever else you can say about Warframe, it's constantly evolving :Dav

On the Second Stream podcast, Rebecca mentioned that the intent is for the Tenno to sound something like Ang from Avatar: The Last Airbender. A sort of headstrong but still young and naive approach. Which is fine for me. But the Avatar was a paragon of moral righteousness. The Tenno are cold-blooded killers. "Young and naive" should translate differently for them. They are naive about the world, but not about the facts of what they do on a day-to-day basis.

I like your reading of the Tenno. Maybe DE could offer three possible Operator archetypes:

1. Serious, a little sad. "I suppose this must be done." "At least some will benefit from the fall of the Grineer."

2. Mildy sarcastic. "Great. More Corpus." "The only thing that could make this worse is a bursa."

3. Somewhat Principled. "There has to be a better way than this." "The Lotus wants this, but is it worth it?"

Edited December 17, 2016 by (PS4)underthumb

[[DE]Momaw]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)underthumb said:

I like your reading of the Tenno. Maybe DE could offer three possible Operator archetypes:

1. Serious, a little sad. "I suppose this must be done." "At least some will benefit from the fall of the Grineer."

2. Mildy sarcastic. "Great. More Corpus." "The only thing that could make this worse is a bursa."

3. Somewhat Principled. "There has to be a better way than this." "The Lotus wants this, but is it worth it?"

I would love the option to set our Tenno's personality in addition to their voice, but I have a nasty suspicion that the time cost for writing and recording that many VO lines isn't worth it for the majority of players.

[Bizzaro21]

Just now, Momaw said:

I would love the option to set our Tenno's personality in addition to their voice, but I have a nasty suspicion that the time cost for writing and recording that many VO lines isn't worth it for the majority of players.

sure is for me.. detail freak, out

[(PSN)underthumb]

Just now, Momaw said:

I would love the option to set our Tenno's personality in addition to their voice, but I have a nasty suspicion that the time cost for writing and recording that many VO lines isn't worth it for the majority of players.

Agreed. But buying voice/personality packs with platinum might work.

[StinkyPygmy]

I agree. The operator dialogue is.... cheesy as best. I understand that they are just teenagers, but with what they've experienced and been trained to do you would think they would be a lot less goofy and have a bit more of a scarred " forced to grow up too fast" kind of vibe.

At the very least what I would appreciate, is the option to have multiple "voice line personalities". That way we could keep the current set for those that like the goofy/awkward teenager vibe, but we could also have a few other sets like a more stoic/neutral vibe, aggressive/blood thirsty, benevolent/caring etc.

DE could still keep a little bit of the goofy teenager thing in these sets, as long as the dialogue made more sense then it does now. I swear, some of the lines are so out of place I cringe every time I hear them.

[Endless_Destruction]

It would be nice if we had "personalities" for our operators, using the same voice, but with different dialogue (should be monologue technically?) and with different tones, similar to the Archetypes above.

And yeah, even though these are physically teenagers, having lived through multiple lifetimes of near non-stop violence should have left them with minds of a desensitized adults. They definitely aren't children, and can't be as naive as their dialogue suggests.

Just a few suggestions of my own.

1. Cynical, Jaded- "Excellent, yet another set of corpses." "It's always been this way, just an endless cycle of bloodshed."

2. Indifferent, Apathetic- "It isn't personal, it's just a job." "It would be over faster if they just surrendered..."

3. Righteous Anger- "Can't they see what they do is wrong? They deserve punishment." "They had it coming. Let's give them some more."

4. Sad, Empathetic- "These are just brainwashed proxies. We need to go after the ones responsible." "I hope it'll be over quickly."

[(PSN)underthumb]

7 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

It would be nice if we had "personalities" for our operators, using the same voice, but with different dialogue (should be monologue technically?) and with different tones, similar to the Archetypes above.

And yeah, even though these are physically teenagers, having lived through multiple lifetimes of near non-stop violence should have left them with minds of a desensitized adults. They definitely aren't children, and can't be as naive as their dialogue suggests.

Just a few suggestions of my own.

1. Cynical, Jaded- "Excellent, yet another set of corpses." "It's always been this way, just an endless cycle of bloodshed."

2. Indifferent, Apathetic- "It isn't personal, it's just a job." "It would be over faster if they just surrendered..."

3. Righteous Anger- "Can't they see what they do is wrong? They deserve punishment." "They had it coming. Let's give them some more."

4. Sad, Empathetic- "These are just brainwashed proxies. We need to go after the ones responsible." "I hope it'll be over quickly."

Those are also excellent, thanks.

Also DE, if you're reading, I want to emphasize that I will pay for this kind of personality customization.

[Xhominid]

The only thing I disagree with is that the Tenno are a murder cult and such...we really aren't.

 

The Corpus and Grineer really DO need to be stopped or halted at the very least or everyone else will suffer from their expansions. So technically we are heroes for everyone else but Grineer and Corpus, let's not pretend that a vast majority of them aren't psychopathic warriors straight from birth/corporate heads that don't give a damn about anyone else aren't worth crying over if we ran them through/shot them to pieces.

 

But yeah, the lines really do need to be revised a bit, especially that Corpus one(come on, I understand that even now Operators cannot fight for themselves, but that's a bit on the nose there)

[(PSN)underthumb]

11 minutes ago, Xhominid said:

The only thing I disagree with is that the Tenno are a murder cult and such...we really aren't.

 

The Corpus and Grineer really DO need to be stopped or halted at the very least or everyone else will suffer from their expansions. So technically we are heroes for everyone else but Grineer and Corpus, let's not pretend that a vast majority of them aren't psychopathic warriors straight from birth/corporate heads that don't give a damn about anyone else aren't worth crying over if we ran them through/shot them to pieces.

 

But yeah, the lines really do need to be revised a bit, especially that Corpus one(come on, I understand that even now Operators cannot fight for themselves, but that's a bit on the nose there)

"Murder cult" is a bit strong, but only just. Tenno kill by the thousands, indiscriminately. They don't take prisoners, don't negotiate, and show no mercy. They have zero compunction about burning, beheading, electrocuting, and poisoning their enemies. Clem is disturbing evidence that not all Grineer are the same. But it doesn't matter. Tenno just keep showing up at Grineer installations and killing everyone. For all the Tenno know, they have unintentionally killed hundreds that might have resisted the Grineer internally. But it doesn't matter, because Lotus said to kill them all.

And I fully agree that the people/things the Tenno are fighting are often truly evil, there's no question. I also agree that the actions of the Tenno may indirectly benefit civilians. But the Tenno are still a dark and often amoral coalition.

Edited December 17, 2016 by (PS4)underthumb

[Xhominid]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)underthumb said:

"Murder cult" is a bit strong, but only just. Tenno kill by the thousands, indiscriminately. They don't take prisoners, don't negotiate, and show zero mercy. They have zero compunction about burning, beheading, electrocuting, and poisoning their enemies. Clem is disturbing evidence that not all Grineer are the same. But it doesn't matter. Tenno just keep showing up at Grineer installations and killing everyone. For all the Tenno know, they have unintentionally killed hundreds that might have resisted the Grineer internally. But it doesn't matter, because Lotus said to kill them all.

And I fully agree that the people/things the Tenno are fighting are often truly evil, there's no question. I also agree that the actions of the Tenno may indirectly benefit civilians. But the Tenno are still a dark and often amoral coalition.

Actually you are very wrong about the Grineer because when I say they was born that way, that's a fact. They are literally born for two things: War and Conquest through any means and the love for their queens. Clem and the Steel Meridians was born with defects which meant that their leaving the Grineer was due to the fact that they have a conscience, something every other Grineer does not have.

And the Tenno take no prisoners? Then what is the Capture objective BUT to take prisoners? And I'm not saying the Tenno aren't dark, but you are seriously trying to paint a Gray brush on them when the other team is basically Jet Black.

[(PSN)underthumb]

1 minute ago, Xhominid said:

Actually you are very wrong about the Grineer because when I say they was born that way, that's a fact. They are literally born for two things: War and Conquest through any means and the love for their queens. Clem and the Steel Meridians was born with defects which meant that their leaving the Grineer was due to the fact that they have a conscience, something every other Grineer does not have.

And the Tenno take no prisoners? Then what is the Capture objective BUT to take prisoners? And I'm not saying the Tenno aren't dark, but you are seriously trying to paint a Gray brush on them when the other team is basically Jet Black.

Yes, regarding the Grinner, I'm saying that those who have had "errors" may still be inside the organization. And we haven't even addressed the Corpus.

And yes, capture missions exist. I should have been more specific when talking about this. I mean that, on explicit combat missions, there is no surrendering to the Tenno. There is no circumstance under which they take prisoners of normal enemy combatants. So it would be more correct to say that the Tenno take no prisoners in combat, though do kidnap VIPs on occasion.

[Xhominid]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)underthumb said:

Yes, regarding the Grinner, I'm saying that those who have had "errors" may still be inside the organization. And we haven't even addressed the Corpus.

And yes, capture missions exist. I should have been more specific when talking about this. I mean that, on explicit combat missions, there is no surrendering to the Tenno. There is no circumstance under which they take prisoners of normal enemy combatants. So it would be more correct to say that the Tenno take no prisoners in combat, though do kidnap VIPs on occasion.

Yeah because it's mainly either an Extermination mission(which is exactly what is on the tin) or otherwise, the enemy will be trying to kill you as much as you try to sabotage their efforts, capture/kill their high priority VIPs, etc.

And that's what they have to do if they need to keep everyone else safe. And for your last part, it's pretty obvious any other Grineer that has "errors" would flee just as quickly considering:

A) The Grineer are basically all for themselves. They will kill, slaughter and destroy everyone that isn't them or have as much love for their Queens as they do.

B) See them slaughtering innocent civilians and even children due to the above.

You can put the Corpus on Grey(a very, VERY dark shade of Grey considering they approved Alad V's actions until he screwed up big) but the Grineer are jet black, period.

[IEpicWolfI]

7 hours ago, Xardis said:

They don't represent what me, as in, Operator stands for.

 That's the biggest problem with the Operators. They're meant to represent us, the players, but they feel like disconnected protagonists more than 'us' in the game.

[Angrados]

7 hours ago, StinkyPygmy said:

I agree. The operator dialogue is.... cheesy as best. I understand that they are just teenagers, but with what they've experienced and been trained to do you would think they would be a lot less goofy and have a bit more of a scarred " forced to grow up too fast" kind of vibe.

At the very least what I would appreciate, is the option to have multiple "voice line personalities". That way we could keep the current set for those that like the goofy/awkward teenager vibe, but we could also have a few other sets like a more stoic/neutral vibe, aggressive/blood thirsty, benevolent/caring etc.

DE could still keep a little bit of the goofy teenager thing in these sets, as long as the dialogue made more sense then it does now. I swear, some of the lines are so out of place I cringe every time I hear them.

This reminds me of something from TWW.

Spoiler ahead because, well, spoilers. Read on at your own risk.

Spoiler

What if the dialogues were influenced/shaped by the choices made during TWW? The whole dark/light balance thing that showed up and still is on our profiles could determine the kind of dialogue our characters have. To illustrate my idea, let's say that the Tenno in question has completed the war within and chosen an all-light route. They can be the righteous, benevolent Tenno who says stuff like, "Behold, Tenno justice!" and other rather feel-good, stereotypical heroic dialogue. However, in the case of a balanced Tenno (equal parts light and dark) the phrasing would be different. Instead of stereotypical heroic dialogue the Tenno would say things like, "To uphold the balance, you must die", or "Prepare to die for your transgressions against the Tenno". Obviously, the full-on dark side would also have different dialogue, but I think I've made my point clear.

The reason I suggest the tie-in to TWW is because that was another system that was introduced that was never really fleshed out. I'm just trying to think of ways to fill out the systems that were established in novel and gripping ways that players might actually enjoy. Giving the moral choices of the Tenno weight is going to make TWW feel a LOT more important and it'll give players the opportunity to decide who their Tenno are in this system.

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Angrados
There was a spelling error. I fixed it.

[Xardis]

1 hour ago, IEpicWolfI said:

 That's the biggest problem with the Operators. They're meant to represent us, the players, but they feel like disconnected protagonists more than 'us' in the game.

Exacly why I dont let DE put words into my Operators mouth when its possible. I know its unavoidable in the quests, but I can pretend that that he didnt say those stupid comments since they have nothing to do with lore whatsoever. This whole Operator thing is IMHO, the best case scenario for DE to place player avatars into, apart from going full post human being and making Tenno be cephalons who posess frames to fight. This would be more to my taste but too esoteric for the larger playerbase so I see why DE went with that. There is some disconnect but I can live with it if it wont widen drasticly in the future. And I dont see it happening very soon since DE starts to give us more choices in the Operator departament.