Jump to content
Koumei & the Five Fates: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

[Spoilers] Powercreep.. again (Kubrows and Helminth Chargers)

Rush95

By Rush95,
in General

 Share

Recommended Posts

Rush95

Rush95

Posted
Posted (edited)

Today marks a full week after Nidus was released, which means players who got infected on the 1st day have their cysts fully grown. You can now create a Helminth Charger by draining the cyst on your Kubrow Incubator. The model appears to be the same one used by normal infested chargers and by Phorid, which means it only serves as a placeholder at the moment (this is evidenced by the lack of collar and mismatched Kubrow armors). 

However, once again DE graced us with a direct upgrade to Kubrows instead of a sidegrade. And no, unfortunately it's not a small one. Let's grab a Sunika Kubrow, arguably the damage breed, and let's compare it to a Helminth Charger:

 

Sunika Kubrow, the ''superior war animal bred for ferocity and aggression'' companion, has:

Health: 330 at rank 30

Shield: 270 at rank 30

Armor: 50

Slash dmg: 120.0

Crit chance: 10.0%

Crit dmg: 1.6x

Status: 5.0%

 

Helminth Charger, the ''infested pet bred from the cyst'' companion, has

Health: 590 at rank 30

Shield: 265 at rank 30

Armor: 150

Slash dmg: 304.0

Toxin dmg: 45.6

Crit chance: 10.0%

Crit dmg: 3.0x

Status: 5.0%

 

So yeah, Helminth Charger is better in almost every stat compared to Sunika and to most Kubrows. Granted, Helminth Chargers seem to be fully damage oriented, while Kubrows have different breeds for different purposes (Raksa shields, Chesa fetches, Huras stealths, Sahasa digs, Sunika hunts). But at the same time, aren't Kubrows supposed to be the high damage option among companions? Isn't this the reason why they don't bring as much utility as Sentinels do? The reason why they don't have Vacuum or other neat mods like Guardian? Because at the moment, Kavats' utility seems like the superior option to Kubrows' utillity, and now they got surpassed by damage and tankiness by another Companion pet: Helminth Chargers. Not only that, their A.I. still seems to be the same, which is a funky/glitchy mess. 

At the end of the day, the three companion types (Kubrow-Kavat-Helminth) use mods that are based on our stats, and thus their stat growth isn't as dependent on level as it is on the Warframes we have equipped. However, the stat differences are quite noticeable, making the Kavasa Prime Collar seem worthless, and Kubrows even more inferior. Remember how we were supposed to get some Kubrow changes and buffs to make them more useful? Like that ''pack leader'' attack that Sheldon and Steve shared? We never got any of those. Instead, we got a direct upgrade.

 

TL;DR Kubrows are inferior to Sentinels and Kavats in utillity, and inferior to Helminth Chargers in damage and tankiness. Nobody wants the ''middle point'' (Kubrows) between damage and utillity when they can't do neither as useful or sustainable in combat, especially when Helminth Chargers aren't difficult to get. Kubrows are, at the moment, the Oberon of Pets. 

EDIT: Cleared up the post a bit so it's simpler to understand.

 

Edited by Rush95
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rush95

Rush95

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Lanieu said:

Well, this is Warframe, everything must be an upgrade.

Nearly any reskin from Syndicates, Baro or otherwise.

Prime.

Primed Mods

Rivens

etc...

I am quite aware of that and I do support it to some degree, since it shows there's a progressive evolution for some weapons and mods (not every mod has to be powerful, not every mod has to be strong as hell). However, Kavats are different from Kubrows since they bring utillity instead of tankiness and damage, they're a sort of ''sidegrade''. It adds options and choice to the game (and even then, Kavats' utility is generally preferred to Kubrows' everything). Helminth Chargers are more of a direct upgrade, taking away almost any reason we could have to use Kubrows. 

 

Edited by Rush95
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ThePredicament

ThePredicament

Posted
Posted

Don't know what the full stats are (like rate of attack and charger abilities) but that damage spread is negligible in any content where it would actually matter. Like you said yourself they are the mid ground of utility and damage, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Besides, fashionframe might be more sided with Kubrows since chargers aren't that impressive (especially with the grineer face mask, if it stays), and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rush95

Rush95

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Saint-Crispin said:

So you mention "Draining the cyst" on the incubator, is that just an option that pops up as you're incubating a kubrow egg? 

As a note to the topic at hand.. I'm still gonna use kubrow's because I like dogs so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You need to have your cyst fully grown (must have a worm sticking out with a glowing end) and a Kubrow Egg. Head over to the Incubator, select Incubate Kubrow, and the option should appear bellow the Imprint slots. Note that it is quite buggy, as DE seems to have rushed the feature so it'd be released before Christmas.

 

7 minutes ago, TheLocalHentai said:

Don't know what the full stats are (like rate of attack and charger abilities) but that damage spread is negligible in any content where it would actually matter. Like you said yourself they are the mid ground of utility and damage, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Besides, fashionframe might be more sided with Kubrows since chargers aren't that impressive (especially with the grineer face mask, if it stays), and at the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

Yes, the difference in stats is quite negligible since they're based on our Warframes, I'm just a bit disappointed that Kubrows got ignored once more. Higher stats means they're willing to create a new type of Pet instead of fixing older ones, including forgetting mentioned buffs and fixes. All I'm saying is that Kavats were already better than Kubrows in utillity, and now Helminth Chargers are better in tankiness and damage, which I can't totally agree if they're supposed to add 'choice'. The 'middle ground' isn't as good or useful as 'better specialization'.

The model seems temporary (it's slightly bugged?), so no worries! We should get a real one in January, I hope.

Edited by Rush95
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Max_AKC

Max_AKC

Posted
Posted

Yeah, it needs that tankiness and damage to balance out how ugly it is. And the scales don't tip well either, this is MR fodder at best.

I agree kubrows need work, Chesa is completely broken but I doubt any fix will put it anywhere near vacuum. At least Huras beats Shade.

Now then, wild Kavats as pets when?! No thanks to the grineer one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rush95

Rush95

Posted
  • Author
Posted
7 hours ago, SpiralViper said:

Yeah, it needs that tankiness and damage to balance out how ugly it is. And the scales don't tip well either, this is MR fodder at best.

I agree kubrows need work, Chesa is completely broken but I doubt any fix will put it anywhere near vacuum. At least Huras beats Shade.

Now then, wild Kavats as pets when?! No thanks to the grineer one.

Steve already confirmed via Twitter that they're doing some touch-ups on the model, no idea about its stats though.

''Universal Vacuum'' was abandoned after giving it to all Sentinels. I doubt they'll fix Chesa's Fetch or adapt it for all Kubrows (especially because Fetch isn't useful to begin with, and because their A.I. is too clunky to reliably catch items like Carrier does. Shame tbh).

Nothing was said about Kubrows though.. I guess they're going to be forgotten like Oberon was. They'll just be an inferior option to Sentinels, Kavats and Helminth Chargers, for people who don't know exactly what they want to use. This is the exact opposite of ''adding choice'', unfortunately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rush95

Rush95

Posted
  • Author
Posted
17 hours ago, SpiralViper said:

Except for the Huras, who is superior to Shade. Hopefully Oberon Prime will be coupled with a rework

Yep, that's true. Probably the only exception, I think the biggest offenders are Sahasa and Chesa being a separate Kubrow, since Carrier does both jobs but better. Wyrm uses stun just fine compared to Raksa's roar, and any Sentinel can do its job with a Guardian mod (Instant Shield regen).

All of this coupled with lower costs, equipable and upgradeable weapons (which are interchangeable), better AI and better tracking. The only downside to them is that they aren't as durable and can't be revived.. but quite honestly, if I'm reaching the point where my Sentinel dies to one or two shots, then I should probably start extracting or speeding up the mission. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vysaek

Vysaek

Posted
Posted (edited)

So, a few hours ago my gf and I where trying the new pet and l noticed something mid mission. It seems, because of a reason i dont know about, the charger changes it's size. My gf charger is a bit taller than mine, when i noticed "my-little-tumour" had the tallest size a kubrow can achieve. Size seemed to change with dead again.

Anyone else noticed this? It's a bug or something about the pet se dont know about?

Edited by Vysaek
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dremarian

Dremarian

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Vysaek said:

So, a few hours ago my gf and I where trying the new pet and l noticed something mid mission. It seems, because of a reason i dont know about, the charger changes it's size. My gf charger is a bit taller than mine, when i noticed "my-little-tumour" had the tallest size a kubrow can achieve. Size seemed to change with dead again.

Anyone else noticed this? It's a bug or something about the pet se dont know about?

Do you remember the finisher bug on the ... Sunika? I think, at work, so I can't check. Basically whenever they use their takedown finishing damage move, they resize themselves based on the model of what they're murdering, and a little of it may be sticking until you rez the ?Dog?.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
eveofmana

eveofmana

Posted
Posted
On 12/29/2016 at 2:34 PM, Rush95 said:

You need to have your cyst fully grown (must have a worm sticking out with a glowing end) and a Kubrow Egg. Head over to the Incubator, select Incubate Kubrow, and the option should appear bellow the Imprint slots. Note that it is quite buggy, as DE seems to have rushed the feature so it'd be released before Christmas.

Does the cyst need to be fully grown for the option to even be hinted? I've a cyst I assume another player gave me, though its not in the same locations as what is seen on youtube, but I don't even have a hint that it can be used for kubrow breeding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
issh0man

issh0man

Posted
Posted

it makes me so sad :(

i love my kubrow to absolute death and they're getting shafted so much and pretty much ignored at this point for sentinels, kavats, and now the helminth charger. they desperately need an overhaul but i feel like it's never going to happen, they're 'dumb' (re: AI) compared to nearly anything else and it's disappointing because everything else has been upgraded and fixed to match the game, but kubrows seem to have been left in the dust.

as for the helminth charger, i plan on just keeping my cyst until they fix it or make it look different, i absolutely hate the grineer popping out of it, mostly for aesthetic reasons but also it just doesn't /fit/ where it came from. it came from nidus and a kubrow egg, i really hope they're going to give us an infested kubrow or something of the like instead or give us a charger that looks wildly different from the regular ones.

i know they're on holiday, and i hope they're having a wonderful time, but i hope we get an update from them soon since many people seem to be asking questions but garnering no answer. :( 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...