HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

3 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

If you aren't going to answer the question, don't bother. A simple yes, no, silence, would've sufficed.

the problem at this point is DE refusing to listen to logic and putting profit over us 

[KIREEK]

2 hours ago, Naskoni said:

I guess you are trying to imply that the people posting in this thread are "casuals", yet quite a few of us have the Hema already. I had the necessary mutagen samples for my solo ghost clan 5 days after I started posting in the anti-Hema threads without spending a single plat or even ducat for boosters. I've put 4 forma in my Hema and even have a +160% damage riven in it. And it's still crap, by the way. You still don't have half the frames in this game, still don't have the Hema, and as an exemplary "non-casual" not even the Aklex. Compared to me you are the ultra casual here.

And it's not a sandbox game, but I guess why limit your ignorance to mutagen samples, clans and Hema research, right?

So in summary - you are as clueless and ignorant as you were a month ago, Mr. Casual.

All I see in your posts is poor to non-existent knowledge of what you're even talking about, total lack of demonstration that you did even a tenth of the crap that you're preaching, continuosly poor decision-making as in posting the same brainfarts over and over and over and the seemingly impressive delusion of actually believing somebody buys or will buy your crap any time soon despite of many posts to the contrary.

And the Hema research costs are still utter BS.

You spend more time talking about something completely offtopic, i mention hema costs and you talk about how you got the weapon, got a riven and because i don't have something you do, i'm clearly wrong.

You provide no actual experience with the hema costs asside from "i did it"

I really hope you don't drag the issue any further, the last time your posts got removed,. there were several reasons to it, i hope you learned from it.

Do not drag the community to act against an individual, next time i will have to talk to the mods about the issue

With that said, the costs are acceptable in whatever way you look at it, as i said previously, either you accept the consequences of poor decisions (solo clan, not enough activity) or you improve the gameplay to get samples at a higher rate, this obviously after completing nodes and doing some general gameplay that most have done already, if a player finds venus missions fun it's obvious he won't have samples, but if go to derelicts once in a while, do kuva siphons on eris, grab a few mods or exp, then the requested ammount should already be way above 500 at this point.

I mean, if you do derelicts survivals with a bow an arrow, it might take a while to get 10 samples, yes it's fun, but the team that just got 200 made more effort and obviously that efffort is rewarded by have the research SOONER.

Slowly clans are walking towards the point where if they say they don't have hame, it's 1 of 3 reasons:

•  clan is new
•  clan has poor activity or interest
•  clan has poor management

[Naskoni]

29 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

If you aren't going to answer the question, don't bother. A simple yes, no, silence, would've sufficed.

In the same vein I could say: If you're not going to bother reading even the first post in the thread, then don't bother posting in it either. Otherwise you come off as:

"I'm too sexy for this thread and as such hereby demand to be spoon-fed by ye, filthy heathens!"

[DrFail]

1 hour ago, Goodwill said:

Can someone clarify for me, is the problem less to do with the Hema costs, and more to do with the clan system?

It would depend on who you ask, but the overall impression I get from the topic is that the two dominant issues at the moment are the effects of Hema's actual cost combined with DE's treatment of the situation.

As an aside towards the rest of the topic, I got a resource drop booster as a login reward yesterday and went into ODS once for the heck of it and the difference in mutagen drop rate was more than I've seen from any other resource, definitely more than 2x. When DE says its raining, their numbers are definitely being skewed by boosters and to be honest I'm a little bit suspicious that the mutagen drop rates might be bugged in some way, because I've never seen so much of an increase from a login drop rate booster before. I could, of course, have just gotten EXTREMELY lucky. But the difference still feels off.

Once the metafarmers with boosters complete the project maybe DE's numbers will level out due to this stark difference and they'll see that we arn't lying.

Edited January 31, 2017 by DrFail

[Liminal]

5 hours ago, KIREEK said:

All i see in this topic is poor decisions, decision to stay in clans that don't play, decisions to do poor management in the clan, poor decisions regarding gameplay (altough acceptable if you are new to the game), decisions not to give a few samples when you clealry can, decisions of not giving samples so the others can do it for you, decisions of not playing the game to begin with but expecting things done when you return from your anual visit.

And the decision to defend an objectively excessive cost.

[Naskoni]

5 minutes ago, DrFail said:

It would depend on who you ask, but the overall impression I get from the topic is that the two dominant issues at the moment are the effects of Hema's actual cost combined with DE's treatment of the situation.

As an aside towards the rest of the topic, I got a resource drop booster as a login reward yesterday and went into ODS once for the heck of it and the difference in mutagen drop rate was more than I've seen from any other resource, definitely more than 2x. When DE says its raining, their numbers are definitely being skewed by boosters and to be honest I'm a little bit suspicious that the mutagen drop rates might be bugged in some way, because I've never seen so much of an increase from a login drop rate booster before. I could, of course, have just gotten EXTREMELY lucky. But the difference still feels off.

Once the metafarmers with boosters complete the project maybe DE's numbers will level out due to this stark difference and they'll see that we arn't lying.

You are not an exception. I personally didn't buy any boosters but the difference between playing in ODD/ODS with somebody that had the drop chance booster and playing without any boosters at all was huge (whether somebody has the booster on is not obvious on the HUD, one has to ask). And since I deduced pretty early on that if I want to get enough samples I'd have to do it immediately after the Nidus patch dropped due to the higher probability of finding plenty of high ranked players desperate enough to buy boosters, thus for me, personally, it wasn't such a pain - I leached effectively (and watched a lot of TV on my max-range Nekros). In the groups without boosters though it was a drought, even with Nekros AND Hydroid. I'm also sure that DE didn't bother to see who used boosters and simply fetched the average haul of all derelict rounds and concluded that it "rains" (it doesn't) because it was predominantly hardcore clan groups with boosters on (derelict is off limits for normal play as matchmaking doesn't work there).

[Ditto132]

2 hours ago, Goodwill said:

Can someone clarify for me, is the problem less to do with the Hema costs, and more to do with the clan system?

Hopefully, this two links should help you understand the problem better.
The first link shows the inconsistency of Hema cost compared with other research costs with visual aids (Appreciate the effort @Flirk2 put into creating them).
The second link gives more insight into resource costs, some history to put things into perspective and more.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/744013-hema-final-word-no-mutagen-drop-or-cost-change/?page=20#comment-8298944

http://www.tennoclocknews.com/analysis-of-resource-costs/

P.S. Clarify again if you still confused after read them.

[DoomFruit]

2 hours ago, Goodwill said:

Can someone clarify for me, is the problem less to do with the Hema costs, and more to do with the clan system?

For me, it's primarily that the cost massively out-weighs all previous costs put together and as such is an enormous anomaly. There are additional aggravating factors:

1) The resource required (mutagen samples) is extremely rare - not only do they only drop from one public mission-capable planet (Eris), they're even rarer than neurodes. By comparison, when the javlok came out, most of us didn't bat an eye at the detonite ampoule cost (which, notably, is lower than the hema's mutagen sample cost, even though detonite is more common) because you get decent numbers of them from any mission (so not just excavation, which is why I and most of my clan hated the sibear) on pretty much half the starchart.

2) Yes, clan research cost scaling is part of the problem. You have a clan with 10 members, and you're going to have to pony up 500 mutagen each. Get another member, and suddenly everyone needs to pay 1500. The additional problem here is that activity levels (and resource stocks) differ between players within a clan. Take mine as an example. It's 55 members out of a possible 100 - so that's twice the base cost, at least. Of those members, 22 of them have logged in during the past week, and 19 during the past day. We can probably assume that only the daily logins would care enough about research to contribute, so we're now at 5x the base cost. Then there is the additional factor of how much time those players spend in-game. I don't know how many spend more than an hour or two online each day, but I'm pretty certain that they won't be spending it sitting in an elevator shaft in the derelict, in a squad comprised of vauban, nekros, hydroid and ivara, doing the exact same thing over and over again. And since the requirements are so high, they're just not going to bother with it.

 

In short: mostly part A, but with a not insignificant amount of part B.

Edited January 31, 2017 by DoomFruit
Me no grammar good

[kaliazane]

3 hours ago, Goodwill said:

Can someone clarify for me, is the problem less to do with the Hema costs, and more to do with the clan system?

The "problem" is with people mindlessly complaining for over a month, mostly while being in solo ghost clans or dead moon clans and refusing to do anything about it. At same time they ignore fact that DE want's to revitalize clan system and I'm sure this is only first step to that.

 Some of the "valid" points they made include but are not limited to:

- "After 3 years of playing I only have XXX samples, so it will take me 15 more years."    Wrong - All it means is that you didn't play ODD much.

- "But all the previous research combined only required 500~" It's still 500 in active clan (Insert drawn out reply monologue about how clans are not 100% active) It's up to you to make it that way, don't want to ? That's your problem then.

- "But till now I solo researched everything super fast so it should always be like that"   No it shouldn't, previously it was so easy that the cost could aswell be 1 credit.

- "But it only drops in ODD and I don't like ODD" Well tough luck, neural sensors only dropped on Jupiter and I didn't like Jupiter either.

-  "It should be easily farmable without boosters and without proper party" Said who ? You are free to farm that way, just don't complain that you can't match farming speed of people who do it properly.

 

Reality check for everyone complaining here : Nothing will change, you are wasting your time.

 

[Helljack84]

19 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

- "After 3 years of playing I only have XXX samples, so it will take me 15 more years."    Wrong - All it means is that you didn't play ODD much.

After aquiring every corrupted mod, duplicates of every corrupted mod, blueprints, relics and cat videos there simply isn't any reason to go there.

- "But all the previous research combined only required 500~" It's still 500 in active clan (Insert drawn out reply monologue about how clans are not 100% active) It's up to you to make it that way, don't want to ? That's your problem then.

I don't like math because it's hard. I did everything with boosters, it's not hard.

- "But till now I solo researched everything super fast so it should always be like that"   No it shouldn't, previously it was so easy that the cost could aswell be 1 credit.

I'll put in some hyperbole to prove my point!

- "But it only drops in ODD and I don't like ODD" Well tough luck, neural sensors only dropped on Jupiter and I didn't like Jupiter either.

Can I pay with neural sensors instead? Got plenty of em. I also not remember being required to farm them with a full metasquad with boosters.

-  "It should be easily farmable without boosters and without proper party" Said who ? You are free to farm that way, just don't complain that you can't match farming speed of people who do it properly.

You're right, you should be required to farm every single thing in the game with boosters and full meta squad.

 

 

[kaliazane]

4 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

-snip-

 

I could take your post seriously, but after you just told me in other thread that I was sliding with hydroid tentacle macro I simply don't see point. People like you will complain regardless of anything, no matter what proof will be provided.

Edited January 31, 2017 by ViS4GE

[Liminal]

26 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

- It's still 500 in active clan (Insert drawn out reply monologue about how clans are not 100% active) It's up to you to make it that way, don't want to ? That's your problem then.

- "But till now I solo researched everything super fast so it should always be like that"   No it shouldn't, previously it was so easy that the cost could aswell be 1 credit.

-  You are free to farm that way, just don't complain that you can't match farming speed of people who do it properly.

That's not how a game prospers, in fact, WF got here while not being "mmo-ish" in its grinding.

26 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

- "But it only drops in ODD and I don't like ODD" Well tough luck, neural sensors only dropped on Jupiter and I didn't like Jupiter either.

Sure, ignore the fact that Jupiter has more variety, and that you never ever needed 500-5000 sensors at once, if at all.

26 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Nothing will change, you are wasting your time.

^That's not valuable feedback... in fact it's not valuable anything.

[kaliazane]

4 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

That's not how a game prospers, in fact, WF got here while not being "mmo-ish" in its grinding.

Sure, ignore the fact that Jupiter has more variety, and that you never ever needed 500-5000 sensors at once, if at all.

^That's not valuable feedback... in fact it's not valuable anything.

Warframe was dying throughout last year and they noticed it. Grind is important part of this game, without it you get everything after update and log off.

I don't see any variety on jupiter, just a boring corpus planet for me. Amount of sensors needed ads up, especially when you wanted to rush 50+ formas then craft some junk items to increase their ducat value. One allad V run could net you 0, then another could net you 0. Survival drops were very rng too, point being sometimes we do things we don't like.

That last one was not a feedback, it was a plain fact and you can quote me on it. 

 

Anyway I'm out, have fun leaving "feedback" for another month. It's not going to change anything tho.

[Liminal]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

Warframe was dying throughout last year and they noticed it. Grind is important part of this game, without it you get everything after update and log off.

I don't see any variety on jupiter, just a boring corpus planet for me. Amount of sensors needed ads up, especially when you wanted to rush 50+ formas then craft some junk items to increase their ducat value. One allad V run could net you 0, then another could net you 0. Survival drops were very rng too, point being sometimes we do things we don't like.

That last one was not a feedback, it was a plain fact and you can quote me on it. 

Steamspy and Steamcharts call BS on that first one. WF is not dying.

Jupiter has alerts, invasions, fissures, dark sectors, sorties, pugs... all things Derelicts do not have. And still, you never needed 500 sensors at once. Especially for one item. And even then: "this is bad too" is not a valid excuse.

A prediction is not a fact.

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

Anyway I'm out, have fun leaving "feedback" for another month.

Will do.

[kaliazane]

Actually let's have some fun.

 

58 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

Steamspy and Steamcharts call BS on that first one. WF is not dying.

There's a difference between was and is. It was according to sites you mentioned, also according to my observation in game.

58 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

Jupiter has alerts, invasions, fissures, dark sectors, sorties, pugs... all things Derelicts do not have. And still, you never needed 500 sensors at once. Especially for one item. And even then: "this is bad too" is not a valid excuse.

You can get more than 500 samples after 3 20 min runs, you wouldn't even get close to that when it comes to Neural sensors. You are missing the point while attempting to debunk simple example.

58 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

A prediction is not a fact.

and yet it's a fact that nothing will change

Edited January 31, 2017 by ViS4GE

[John89brensen]

3 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Warframe was dying throughout last year and they noticed it. Grind is important part of this game, without it you get everything after update and log off.

So instead of making non endless missions more appealing for the average player, they decided to make us farm for one resource, for one research project, on one tyleset with 2 mission types to choose from? You sir are a visionary! Way to save a game!  

We have some interesting game modes in WF, sadly none are rewarding. Take assault for instance, really fun mission, no reward whatsoever -no, caches are not rewards.

Despite promises to the contrary, DE steadily increased the grind, Hema is just the latest. Not only its a lot of grinding for an uninteresting weapon, but there exists the possibility that DE will use Hema to gate future content. So if you dont mind sitting in one boring &#! mission for one resource, then by all means, go farm. But some of us like to have fun when we play games.

As a side note, i dont think Warframe is in need of saving or even dying, it just lost some of its player retention capacity. Increasing the grind will do nothing to prevent this.

[Liminal]

4 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

There's a difference between was and is. It was according to sites you mentioned, also according to my observation in game.

No, no it wasn't. On average WF had 40428 players per month in 2015, in 2016 it went up to 50449.

4 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

You can get more than 500 samples after 3 20 min runs, you wouldn't even get close to that when it comes to Neural sensors. You are missing the point while attempting to debunk simple example.

I'm not missing any point, samples and sensors are not 1:1, so the numbers cannot be compared like that. Sensors were always more accesible, and they were easier to acquire by playing casually. But regardless, the point is that even if sensors are not okay, it doesn't mean samples acquisition is acceptable. They can both suck just fine.

4 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

and yet it's a fact that nothing will change

You may want to double check the definition of "fact".

[kaliazane]

Just now, John89brensen said:

So instead of making non endless missions more appealing for the average player, they decided to make us farm for one resource, for one research project, on one tyleset with 2 mission types to choose from? You sir are a visionary! Way to save a game!  

We have some interesting game modes in WF, sadly none are rewarding. Take assault for instance, really fun mission, no reward whatsoever -no, caches are not rewards.

Despite promises to the contrary, DE steadily increased the grind, Hema is just the latest. Not only its a lot of grinding for an uninteresting weapon, but there exists the possibility that DE will use Hema to gate future content. So if you dont mind sitting in one boring &#! mission for one resource, then by all means, go farm. But some of us like to have fun when we play games.

As a side note, i dont think Warframe is in need of saving or even dying, it just lost some of its player retention capacity. Increasing the grind will do nothing to prevent this.

I believe they are working on adding something to assault as we speak. They decreased grind in many places last year and then saw steady player base decrease. For example maxing your primed mods, which was big problem for me when I started is currently way easier than before.

Uneintresting is your opinion, I find it very interesting. Imo it's the best burst rifle currently. Also I'm sick of hearing "but what if year from now hema will gate something, maybe" That's hardly an argument, but hey if year from now it does maybe gate something maybe, then you have entire year to farm for it.

Working with your clan to accomplish something can be fun too, unless you are in solo clan like many people occupying this thread.

 

[kaliazane]

13 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

No, no it wasn't. On average WF had 40428 players per month in 2015, in 2016 it went up to 50449.

 

Yes it was and it was clearly visible for anyone who played. After every update we saw spike of players but as I remember seeing it each spike was lower then the previous one. Then player count dropped and each drop was bigger and bigger. All you had to do is open chat window to see it.

13 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

I'm not missing any point, samples and sensors are not 1:1, so the numbers cannot be compared like that. Sensors were always more accesible, and they were easier to acquire by playing casually. But regardless, the point is that even if sensors are not okay, it doesn't mean samples acquisition is acceptable. They can both suck just fine.

 

The point is that sometimes you do things you don't like doing and you completely missed it. I don't like scanning cats in ODD but I want to craft kavat, I don't like to farm kubrow dens for eggs (drop rate of which used be very low) but I did it. I can make plenty similar examples. If you don't like to farm for samples then either organize your clan and do it within few games like this one.

Spoiler

Or don't do it at all, nobody forces you to do it anyway.

13 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

You may want to double check the definition of "fact".

Did it change ? No. Do they plan to change it ? No. Will ignoring their official replies make them change it ? No.

Double check that.

Edited January 31, 2017 by ViS4GE

[John89brensen]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

I believe they are working on adding something to assault as we speak. 

They said that they would add the mission type to sortie rotations. That is not the same as making the normal mission something rewarding to play.

 

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

 They decreased grind in many places last year and then saw steady player base decrease

Where was the grind decreased? I think you meant they increased the grind, farming new relics and void traces, for example. The player based decreased because DE didnt introduce nothing engaging to replace the grind. Take Archwing as an example, they removed the grind for parts, and coupled with a new unecessary movement system, now you have no reason to play AW. If all that you can think off to make people play your game, is make them grind, then you are making one boring game. 

 

6 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Uneintresting is your opinion, I find it very interesting. Imo it's the best burst rifle currently.

Well good for you buddy, go have fun with it. That doesnt mean its a great weapon worth the grind, it has ok stats, burst fire, and one gimmick.

8 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Also I'm sick of hearing "but what if year from now hema will gate something, maybe" That's hardly an argument, but hey if year from now it does maybe gate something maybe, then you have entire year to farm for it.

It is a valid argument. It would clearly show that DE wants to force players to spend either plat on boosters, or unreasonable amounts of time doing ODD/S. A year from now will still be unreasonable, or what do you think there wont be clans of casual players, or new clans started by new players? Perhaps you dont realize this, sitting in your high horse.

 

10 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Working with your clan to accomplish something can be fun too, unless you are in solo clan like many people occupying this thread.

Its funny how you assume most people on this thread come from small clans. Im a member of a mountain clan and we are not researching Hema, i didnt go around asking for reasons, but im guessing that sitting in ODD/S for hours doesnt sound really interesting. And also before you say it, the clan is neither at full capacity, nor 100% active, its composed of people  that like to play the game for fun. And where is the fun, when you farm for one item of the research? 

 

[notlamprey]

3 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Double check that.

Wait. I thought you were leaving. What changed?

As I've said before, a statement of intent does not preclude the right to disagree. Plenty of very important things have been accomplished as a result of persistent discussion just like we're having here.

There is always someone who shows up to say "you're wasting your time," and themselves spends just as much time negging the discussion as others do participating in it.

Tu quoque, mister

 

[kaliazane]

17 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

They said that they would add the mission type to sortie rotations. That is not the same as making the normal mission something rewarding to play.

They also said they will add something interesting to it.

 

17 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Where was the grind decreased? I think you meant they increased the grind, farming new relics and void traces, for example. The player based decreased because DE didnt introduce nothing engaging to replace the grind. Take Archwing as an example, they removed the grind for parts, and coupled with a new unecessary movement system, now you have no reason to play AW. If all that you can think off to make people play your game, is make them grind, then you are making one boring game. 

Maxing mods, making rare stances easier to get, credit farming is easier, prime farming is also easier when it comes to target farming (this one is not black and white tho, there are arguments for it being easier and harder). Well, quite frankly after farming all AW items for mastery you never had reason to play it anymore, unless you do JV. I love how this forum is full of game designers, when we will see your perfect game and who will publish it ?

 

17 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Well good for you buddy, go have fun with it. That doesnt mean its a great weapon worth the grind, it has ok stats, burst fire, and one gimmick.

It is a valid argument. It would clearly show that DE wants to force players to spend either plat on boosters, or unreasonable amounts of time doing ODD/S. A year from now will still be unreasonable, or what do you think there wont be clans of casual players, or new clans started by new players? Perhaps you dont realize this, sitting in your high horse.

I think it's worth the grind, I have some videos to back it up too if you want.

It's a business, of course they want you to spend plat. Main purpose of games like this is to make money, that's how it works. It's resonable if you do it properly, takes 3 games to get 600~, 4 people from same clan doing that in party would have 2400 after 3 20wave ODD. That's almost half of ghost clan req, done by 4 people in less than 1 hour. 

17 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Its funny how you assume most people on this thread come from small clans. Im a member of a mountain clan and we are not researching Hema, i didnt go around asking for reasons, but im guessing that sitting in ODD/S for hours doesnt sound really interesting. And also before you say it, the clan is neither at full capacity, nor 100% active, its composed of people  that like to play the game for fun. And where is the fun, when you farm for one item of the research? 

 

I did some checking in previous thread and they did, still see many same names here. Feel free to play for fun then, nobody forces you to farm for weapon you consider bad. That's the beauty of warframe, world wont end if you won't get every single weapon.

17 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

Wait. I thought you were leaving. What changed?

51 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Actually let's have some fun.

Let me quote myself for you, since you didn't bother reading.

Edited January 31, 2017 by ViS4GE

[Naskoni]

Just now, notlamprey said:

Wait. I thought you were leaving. What changed?

He got butthurt. Hardly the first time either. He worked so hard reporting the Hema megathread in hopes to lock it up - seems he will start working hard on this one as well.

Oh, and @ViS4GE - don't forget to keep checking my forum profile from time to time in order to know which thread to troll in.

3 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Well good for you buddy, go have fun with it. That doesnt mean its a great weapon worth the grind, it has ok stats, burst fire, and one gimmick.

He ranked up the Hema and forgot about it. He hasn't used it for weeks - he is simply lying his arse off. (guess he has no idea that his ingame profile is a public one)

7 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Its funny how you assume most people on this thread come from small clans. Im a member of a mountain clan and we are not researching Hema, i didnt go around asking for reasons, but im guessing that sitting in ODD/S for hours doesnt sound really interesting. And also before you say it, the clan is neither at full capacity, nor 100% active, its composed of people  that like to play the game for fun. And where is the fun, when you farm for one item of the research? 

You know what's funny - he is in a solo ghost clan himself. He has no idea what it's like to work with others and as such what this "fun" he is talking about even is. Unless he means running all by himself with both boosters on, as those are indeed his two best friends.

[Liminal]

12 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Yes it was and it was clearly visible for anyone who played. After every update we saw spike of players but as I remember seeing it each spike was lower then the previous one. Then player count dropped and each drop was bigger and bigger. All you had to do is open chat window to see it.

Anecdotal evidence is useless when we have hard data. The numbers I gave you were real Steam stats, and in 2016 the average number of unique players per month increased by ~25%. What you or I saw is irrelevant.

12 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

The point is that sometimes you do things you don't like doing and you completely missed it. I don't like scanning cats in ODD but I want to craft kavat, I don't like to farm kubrow dens for eggs (drop rate of which used be very low) but I did it. I can make plenty similar examples. If you don't like to farm for samples then either organize your clan and do it within few games like this one.

Or don't do it at all, nobody forces you to do it anyway.

No, the point is you keep moving the "point" around and never address what I quoted at first. Now I remember why I stopped replying to you in the previous 150-page Hema thread.
And now you're comparing things that are either easier to obtain, or can be obtained while playing a larger variety of missions to something you have to farm in greater numbers in one single tile, and realistically, only 2 mission types.

12 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Did it change ? No. Do they plan to change it ? No. Will ignoring their official replies make them change it ? No.

Double check that.

Haha, what? Yeah, that's not how facts work. 

[kaliazane]

2 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

-snip-

Just ignore this guy. 90% of his 272 posts were done in Hema complaining threads and he claims to be playing 3 years, which is why I checked his profile.

He provokes people throwing sarcasm at them and then block anyone who points out flaws in his posts.

Complete waste of time to even discuss with him, you cant hope for any intelligent conversation when it comes to him anyway.