For the love of god, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor

[Herosupport]

5 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Sorry but I'd rather the game receives patches based on what needs fixing, rather than your personal emotions in a sea of 25 million registered losers, many of which share your exact emotions but in the opposite direction.

If that was the "whole point" of Mirage then why does she have 3 other abilities that don't primarily boost Hall of Mirrors? Mirage is a glass cannon that specialises in attacking groups, her 1 allows her to become a solo firing line with any weapon, not just AoE stuff. Normal guns still work well with it, and it also provides damage diversion. It is NOT just "make AoE weapons cheesy".

looks like a made you upset .... GOOD! :) get angry and smash your monitor you lowly being.

[YUNoJump]

6 minutes ago, KingNoobsta said:

Learn to beat Mirage rather than ranting for Nerfs. 

So in order to use something other than Miragulor (ie 99% of the game's other items) you have to be skilled enough to outpace a Miragulor, while the Miragulor doesn't have to be good at anything. That is pretty much exactly the definition of overpowered right there. All players have their own level of skill, they shouldn't be forced to "git gud or git out" because someone else wants to be an unstoppable train of kills today.

I'll add that in those screenshots only one of the other Miragulors had a killcount similar to you, probably because they were unable to get kills through a Miragulor AND someone who could kill as fast as one. Irony right there.

[YUNoJump]

1 minute ago, Herosupport said:

looks like a made you upset .... GOOD! :) get angry and smash your monitor you lowly being.

I've been debating at this level long before you came here, you didn't change anything son. 

[KingNoobsta]

3 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

So in order to use something other than Miragulor (ie 99% of the game's other items) you have to be skilled enough to outpace a Miragulor, while the Miragulor doesn't have to be good at anything. That is pretty much exactly the definition of overpowered right there. All players have their own level of skill, they shouldn't be forced to "git gud or git out" because someone else wants to be an unstoppable train of kills today.

I'll add that in those screenshots only one of the other Miragulors had a killcount similar to you, probably because they were unable to get kills through a Miragulor AND someone who could kill as fast as one. Irony right there.

Firstly getting Mirage isnt a low level thingy coz its locked for low level players. Secondly we cant get good at something then lets should "Nerf this, nerf that" yay! Nerf everything. 

[DERPY_SMOOG]

seems like the big arguement is that the mirage / simulor combo requires little to no aiming. niether does the mirage / phage, ignis, twin grakata, tonkor, penta, galantine, hek, tirgris, soma, angstrum, atomos, orthos, supra, and dozens of others. gamers will always find and exploit a cheesy tactic to easy mode something. crying nerf is not the way to solve all problems. like it or not the mirage / simulor combo is not endgame and therefore not a very big problem as for as the devs are concerned.

on a side note, almost everything in this game can be made way overpowered if you know what to do (except the lato XD). the only difference is the mirage simulor combo takes little to no work to be OP. maybe the simulor should require some more effort to be that strong. but the mirage is not a low mastery frame and neither is either one of the simulors.

EDIT also on another sidenote nobody actually forces anybody to STAY in the group with someone using this playstyle. you can always leave and find another group. or just ask the person to lay off the simulor so you can play. just sayin'

Edited January 11, 2017 by DERPY_SMOOG

[YUNoJump]

7 minutes ago, KingNoobsta said:

Firstly getting Mirage isnt a low level thingy coz its locked for low level players. Secondly we cant get good at something then lets should "Nerf this, nerf that" yay! Nerf everything. 

It's not "Nerf this" because people are getting hopelessly outclassed by it, it's "Nerf this" because people are getting hopelessly outclassed by it AND there's no actual way to get around it other than becoming unreasonably skilled at getting around it. This is a co-op PvE game, players shouldn't have to figure out how to play against their teammates, they should have to figure out how to play WITH their teammates. You could say that nerfing Miragulor makes Miragulor users unhappy, but not nerfing her makes people who have to deal with it unhappy, and there are more of them. If a lunatic broke into your house and started messing things up, you COULD just learn to live around him, or you could arrange for him to be removed from your house, because you have the luxury of being able to do that. It's the same with Miragulor.

[KingNoobsta]

1 minute ago, YUNoJump said:

It's not "Nerf this" because people are getting hopelessly outclassed by it, it's "Nerf this" because people are getting hopelessly outclassed by it AND there's no actual way to get around it other than becoming unreasonably skilled at getting around it. This is a co-op PvE game, players shouldn't have to figure out how to play against their teammates, they should have to figure out how to play WITH their teammates. You could say that nerfing Miragulor makes Miragulor users unhappy, but not nerfing her makes people who have to deal with it unhappy, and there are more of them. If a lunatic broke into your house and started messing things up, you COULD just learn to live around him, or you could arrange for him to be removed from your house, because you have the luxury of being able to do that. It's the same with Miragulor.

So we are starting with Name Calling - Lunatic ? So call Mirage players are Lunatic. Nice argument without facts. 

[YUNoJump]

Just now, KingNoobsta said:

So we are starting with Name Calling - Lunatic ? So call Mirage players are Lunatic. Nice argument without facts. 

Ok you've taken that completely the wrong way, just replace lunatic with whatever you want that doesn't imply offense. How about all Miragulor players are my tiny brother who occasionally comes into my room and starts playing with crap I don't want him to, I can get someone else to get rid of him while I do my own thing. Does that analogy work for you?

There's also the entire paragraph above that analogy that also exists as part of the same argument btw

[KingNoobsta]

5 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Ok you've taken that completely the wrong way, just replace lunatic with whatever you want that doesn't imply offense. How about all Miragulor players are my tiny brother who occasionally comes into my room and starts playing with crap I don't want him to, I can get someone else to get rid of him while I do my own thing. Does that analogy work for you?

There's also the entire paragraph above that analogy that also exists as part of the same argument btw

Your argument can be summed up in one line  "I (we) cant beat Mirage and Simulor. Please nerf it" 

Edited January 11, 2017 by KingNoobsta

[YUNoJump]

Just now, KingNoobsta said:

You argument can be summed up in one line  "I (we) cant beat Mirage and Simulor. Please nerf it" 

Ok it seems pretty obvious now that you aren't even thinking about my argument at all so I can't really be bothered dealing with you, hope you have fun outpacing Miragulor users because it's apparently a rare privilege to be allowed to do so.

[KingNoobsta]

2 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Ok it seems pretty obvious now that you aren't even thinking about my argument at all so I can't really be bothered dealing with you, hope you have fun outpacing Miragulor users because it's apparently a rare privilege to be allowed to do so.

I m exactly typing what u want then why be offended. Its same with Riven Mod Challenges then ? You cant do it then nerf it ? or sell it off to someone else ?

 

[YUNoJump]

Just now, KingNoobsta said:

Its same with Riven Mod Challenges then ? You cant do it then nerf it ? or sell it off to someone else ?

Riven Mod challenges don't change per each person, everyone gets a challenge from the same pool, everyone has the same facilities available to them to complete the challenges, the required skill level to complete a certain challenge remains the same for everyone.

[KingNoobsta]

17 minutes ago, DERPY_SMOOG said:

seems like the big arguement is that the mirage / simulor combo requires little to no aiming. niether does the mirage / phage, ignis, twin grakata, tonkor, penta, galantine, hek, tirgris, soma, angstrum, atomos, orthos, supra, and dozens of others. gamers will always find and exploit a cheesy tactic to easy mode something. crying nerf is not the way to solve all problems. like it or not the mirage / simulor combo is not endgame and therefore not a very big problem as for as the devs are concerned.

on a side note, almost everything in this game can be made way overpowered if you know what to do (except the lato XD). the only difference is the mirage simulor combo takes little to no work to be OP. maybe the simulor should require some more effort to be that strong. but the mirage is not a low mastery frame and neither is either one of the simulors.

EDIT also on another sidenote nobody actually forces anybody to STAY in the group with someone using this playstyle. you can always leave and find another group. or just ask the person to lay off the simulor so you can play. just sayin'

Still a sensible reply. 

[YUNoJump]

19 minutes ago, DERPY_SMOOG said:

nobody actually forces anybody to STAY in the group with someone using this playstyle. you can always leave and find another group. or just ask the person to lay off the simulor so you can play. just sayin'

Why should I be asked to leave a public lobby because of what someone else is doing? what if they join on a game that I was already in? And I'd rather not have to trust players to not do annoying things after having to deal with countless people trying to cheat radshares.

[DERPY_SMOOG]

7 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Why should I be asked to leave a public lobby because of what someone else is doing? what if they join on a game that I was already in? And I'd rather not have to trust players to not do annoying things after having to deal with countless people trying to cheat radshares.

why should i be forced to stop using a viable tactic just because you dont like it? what if i am trying to get my miragulor on and someone like you joins? should i have to stop just to make you happy? the game and the world does not revolve around your personal happiness you have to make your own. if your not happy in a lobby, leave. if you dont want to risk people joining with cheap tactics then play on invite only or, in private or solo. thats what they are there for. :)

EDIT you also glossed over actual communication. many people who use the mirage / simulor combo know just how it is for others and will gladly lay off if asked. again just sayin'

Edited January 11, 2017 by DERPY_SMOOG

[Calvyr]

The biggest issue with the Mirage Simulor combo is that it isn't fun for anyone else in the squad, because there's nothing for them to do. We can try to get ahead of the Miragulor, but this isn't easy, since, as many people forget, Mirage's passive gives her +25% Bullet Jump speed and +50% Maneuver speed (sprinting is considered a maneuver). Others have mentioned it, and I agree, that you shouldn't have to fight against your teammates to participate in a mission. It's not about getting the most kills or the highest damage, it's about getting any kills. I love when I finish a mission and look at the stats to see them evenly distributed, that tells me everyone contributed and likely enjoyed themselves. I don't like seeing one person, even if it's me, getting all the kills or doing all the damage. There are specific exceptions, like Spy missions where maybe one person just concentrated on vaults, but that's not the discussion.

When talking about other "cheese" like Snow Globe or Molecular Prime (which I've also seen mentioned in similar discussions), the big difference is that those types of abilities allow other players to participate, whereas things like Miragulor, WoF Ember, Maim Equinox, as well as others, take the opportunity to participate away from other players. In a co-op PvE game, that's bad. In short, "cheese" that allows participation is fine because it's still fun for others, "cheese" that removes participation is bad because it's only fun for the "cheeser".

Personally, I used to play on public most of the time, but lately I've switched to solo for most cases except sorties and fissure grinding due to the prevalence of Miragulors and other loadouts that suck the fun out of the game for me. And even when I do go public, I will often quit out of a mission where I see a Mirage, Ember or Equinox, simply because I know my chances of enjoying that mission are low. That makes me sad, and has seen me playing the game less lately. Hopefully DE finds a way to balance out some of these things to encourage more group play rather than "solo + 3" as I call it.

[DERPY_SMOOG]

1 minute ago, Calvyr said:

The biggest issue with the Mirage Simulor combo is that it isn't fun for anyone else in the squad, because there's nothing for them to do....  it's about getting any kills.

this is also a fair arguement. despite liking and using the miragulor combo i still agree with this. i use the combo to farm exp and rank up weapons but i alway try to stay in one spot so my team doesn't get too annoyed with me. but i have been on the recieving end of this and it does suck.

[YUNoJump]

12 minutes ago, DERPY_SMOOG said:

why should i be forced to stop using a viable tactic just because you dont like it? what if i am trying to get my miragulor on and someone like you joins? should i have to stop just to make you happy? the game and the world does not revolve around your personal happiness you have to make your own. if your not happy in a lobby, leave. if you dont want to risk people joining with cheap tactics then play on invite only or, in private or solo. thats what they are there for. :)

EDIT you also glossed over actual communication. many people who use the mirage / simulor combo know just how it is for others and will gladly lay off if asked. again just sayin'

Generally the devs want to keep as many enjoyable playstyles viable as possible, if one playstyle is dominating all others then there's a problem. Yes that's a nerf, but as has been discussed in countless threads before this one, people need to accept threads and find another way to play that is enjoyable. After all, if you can't play your old style but can play another fun style, overall you're still having fun right?

As for the need for nerfs over just letting stuff happen, this is the thread generally cited towards that argument

As well as the need for diversity in choice, there's the mathematical side of the argument. If a Miragulor player is in a full squad (the way the game is designed to be played) then the Miragulor will probably outpace the 3 other players there, that means that in any squad with a Miragulor user, general enjoyment of the mission is at 25% max. It's a flat argument but it's one to be made.

 

[Cloud]

Well, I agree with you that combo is really broken with that quantity of damage. But I agree too that nerfing only mirage or only synoid would be too much. Maybe a solution would be in nerfing the combination of the two (maybe decreasing the damage of black holes created with 1 or more clones' sphere)

Btw the argument could be easy shutted down with the well know "if you play public you have no right to force your will on the gameplay of others". Argument which personally I hate with all my heart because it prevents any feedback, or try to improve the game in its flaws.

But according to me the real problem is the balance, you cannot balance a weapon or frame if the enemies, the missions, the frames , powers, and the game itself is not balanced. So what are we talking about?

Edited January 11, 2017 by Cloud

[DERPY_SMOOG]

the problem then is mirage. i have been playing since the game was released on Xbox One and have seen this argument before with mirage and other weapons. maybe hall of mirrors is just not a good fit for team play. without mirage the simulors are strong but not stupidly so, not enough to outweigh the fun factor of other weapons.

Edited January 11, 2017 by DERPY_SMOOG

[Soketsu]

Meanwhile,

many framy are still underplayed,

many weapons has beed forgotten,

archwing is quite unpopular,

sortie rng,

riven (designed to buff worthless weapons) rng

almost non-existent interresting high level content,

dark sector & solar rail content under exploited since 2015,

I think I can continue but I think it's pointless

2 hours ago, armedpoop said:

Yeah! Lets nerf Simulor Mirage!

Then what? Ignis Ember?

Then what? Spore Saryn?

Then what? Resonating Banshee?

Then what? Sonar Banshee?

Then what? Maim Equinox?

 

 

Do you see the problem here? You nerf this one thing, not only are you screwing over people who play either item exclusively or without the other, but you just bring to light other meta strats to clear missions faster. Nerfing Simulor Mirage will do nothing but aggravate the people who use Simulor, or Mirage. 

add to that the fact they got to "rework" ash and saryn, and still it doesn't change a thing to the game, but no let's continue to call for useless nerf, +  other loadout who will mysteriously come out when they may make the DE actually nerf this for nothing XD

[Shockwave-]

3 hours ago, Insizer said:

I think that I'm not alone in saying this, but please DE, for the love of god and all that is holy, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor. It is damn near cancer to the game. There are many things that can be done: nerf Synoid Simulor, nerf Mirage, make it so that the simulor orbs from a clone cannot combine with those of the other clones and the actual user, make it so that each shot requires a short charge up. I don't particularly care, I just want this issue fixed. It has been the greater part of a year, and nothing has been done at all despite this being one of the most requested and complained about things on the forums. I just want this fixed and have the fix actually work without making the simulor series useless.

I;'d rather see a simulor mirage in my game than a nidus. It's all personal opinion. The mirage is doing it's job, killing things. I see so few Simulor Mirages in my games I never find it an issue. If one here and there is tweaking you so bad just abort and run it again odds are high that you will not find a simulor mirage.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Shockwave-

[-N7-Leonhart]

3 hours ago, Insizer said:

I think that I'm not alone in saying this, but please DE, for the love of god and all that is holy, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor. It is damn near cancer to the game. There are many things that can be done: nerf Synoid Simulor, nerf Mirage, make it so that the simulor orbs from a clone cannot combine with those of the other clones and the actual user, make it so that each shot requires a short charge up. I don't particularly care, I just want this issue fixed. It has been the greater part of a year, and nothing has been done at all despite this being one of the most requested and complained about things on the forums. I just want this fixed and have the fix actually work without making the simulor series useless.

Indeed. Just hammer the blasted thing!

[Ciaus]

3 hours ago, Jakorak said:

As someone who doesn't miragemulor but does focus farm, I wish convergence orbs were never added to the game. Convergence orbs put a huge pressure on focus farmers to time and execute massively wanton slaughters of the likes that make people like you bored and decide to leave early in an endless mission. People like you leaving endless missions makes less enemies spawn and makes focus farmer like me frustrated, and it's a cyclical dance of frustration that could be avoided if DE hadn't decided they needed to nerf focus gains and incentivize fever pitch 45 second slaughter fests when they implemented team based focus gains rather than just...... implementing team based focus gains in a coop game

I do agree, they are annoying and I know when I take Saryn P or something to focus farm it gets a bit dumb. 
That said at least most other focus farming combos require either one to aim or drop off soon enough in power. Miragulor just doesn't. An actual macro with like 3 commands could play a perfect miragulor defence vs infested.

[KamishirasawaKeine]

"OMG mirage + simulor too OP!!!"

"OMG mirage + tonkor too OP!!!"

"OMG mirage + soma p too OP!!!"

"OMG mirage + mk1 braton too OP!!!"

"OMG mirage + Dr.Jekyll's cane too OP!!!"

Believe it or not, I've actually heard of almost all kinds of complaining about 'mirage + XXX' combination.

 

Mirage has already been nerfed to the ground compared to her initial stats, so has the simulor. If that still bothers you I'm pretty sure there're more things could possibly bother you.

Isn't Banshee OP? Even after the nerf, painting enemy with sonar is still a thing, except that there's no point going over one hour in void survival now.

Isn't Chroma OP? Jumping around with 140k ehp and 5.5x damage buff, what else can you expect?

Isn't Rhino OP? Every time you press 3, everyone around you gets 2.5x damage buff. Literally press-3-to-win, so why no just nerf him and revert his 3 back to the ground slamming?

Why not talk about Ivara + Zenistar build as well? Maybe because even login for 300 days is too much for someone?

 

I'll be straight, many people complain about Mirage only because Mirage is the only endgame build they know. Ever since the age of Damage 1.0, there were, are, and will be countless ways to mess with damage scaling. Mirage is only one of them, and not even the best one.