An alternative to making Eximus Units Invulnerable.

[Alexion]

I'm sure many of us are a little upset about DE's lack of willingness to avoid making units invulnerable. Especially in a game that has you put so much effort into upgrading and multi-leveling your weapons through mods and Forma...

But here's my alternative ::

You know how Sentients have their proc/elemental resistances? Why not have the Sentients reach out to the Eximus Units, and instead of creating an invulnerable unit, you simple make it tankier with the same method?

Now here's the difference: The precision element they're wanting will still be available because the invulnerability nodes will be replaced with Sentient Armor, and when you shoot off a piece of armor, it removes one resistance that the Eximus has acquired.

Example: A Leech Eximus Charger will have something similar to a Pakal Armor piece on it's shoulder & thigh, from the damage done to it, it would have acquired Slash & Fire Resistance, so when one of those armor pieces comes off, one of the two buffs becomes removed. When both armor pieces are shot off, it becomes a basic Eximus Unit again.

Alternate/Optional Idea: Operator Damage can completely purge the armor from an Eximus Unit.

Edit 1:

Lore clarity - If an Eximus has an armor piece and they become corrupted in a Fissure mission, the armor falls off.

Also; corrupted Eximus in the void will not be applicable to this effect.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Titan303

[Necromanrius]

Personally I like the idea.

That said, I actually like the idea of the new eximi for what I think are their future intentions. I do believe they are trying to nerf the stats scaling that happens at higher levels and replace it with other ideas, which I think is great. It's not something I feel should be simply stacked on top of current stats scaling, but part of a system that would nerf or replace stats scaling entirely.

The only issue I have is 'invulnerability'. Nothing should be straight invulnerable except very rare cases. Valkyr for one, and Grineer Fomorians. Anything else I can't help but disagree. Even the Razorback (hey, your stupidily powerful weapon you forma'ed 6 times is actually crap compared to a Bursa's basic armament! GRRRRRRR....) but that's another story...

To me, it should be at least like Juggernaut's protection. It doesn't cancel dmg, just reduces it massively, enough that going for the weakpoint is the best strategy. This allows both to see numbers (Because let's be honest, I don't farm and spend so much time getting the best gear and mods just to see a big fat 0 when I shoot something. I feel a lot better shooting Juggy because even if it does pathetic damage, IT STILL DOES SOMETHING!)

The Sentient Armor also doesn't completely nullifies dmg (or maybe it does? I don't know, I never used a weapon with only 1 or 2 dmg types) so to me it's fine. Plus, your idea doesn't make them immune to all elements, so players with a variety of types would usually have a least one element that's not guarded against.

And of course, I like the idea of making the Operator more relevant. So far it seems used more to either troll new players or make a mission harder (Kuva farming aside ofc)...

[Oreades]

Personally I don't think they need any change. They work fine and already force the player to prioritize due to both their added toughness/damage and added effect. At least I know when an Eximus shows up generally they get my full attention cause they will ruin my day if I don't take care of them. 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by Oreades

[Alexion]

5 hours ago, Necromanrius said:

Personally I like the idea.

That said, I actually like the idea of the new eximi for what I think are their future intentions. I do believe they are trying to nerf the stats scaling that happens at higher levels and replace it with other ideas, which I think is great. It's not something I feel should be simply stacked on top of current stats scaling, but part of a system that would nerf or replace stats scaling entirely.

The only issue I have is 'invulnerability'. Nothing should be straight invulnerable except very rare cases. Valkyr for one, and Grineer Fomorians. Anything else I can't help but disagree. Even the Razorback (hey, your stupidily powerful weapon you forma'ed 6 times is actually crap compared to a Bursa's basic armament! GRRRRRRR....) but that's another story...

To me, it should be at least like Juggernaut's protection. It doesn't cancel dmg, just reduces it massively, enough that going for the weakpoint is the best strategy. This allows both to see numbers (Because let's be honest, I don't farm and spend so much time getting the best gear and mods just to see a big fat 0 when I shoot something. I feel a lot better shooting Juggy because even if it does pathetic damage, IT STILL DOES SOMETHING!)

The Sentient Armor also doesn't completely nullifies dmg (or maybe it does? I don't know, I never used a weapon with only 1 or 2 dmg types) so to me it's fine. Plus, your idea doesn't make them immune to all elements, so players with a variety of types would usually have a least one element that's not guarded against.

And of course, I like the idea of making the Operator more relevant. So far it seems used more to either troll new players or make a mission harder (Kuva farming aside ofc)...

The operator part was a last minute thing I thought of due to the fact that you can already Purge sentient resistances with the operator. But my main point, is that why make an enemy invulnerable, if the majority of the game is spent upgrading mods and forma'ing?

[Alexion]

4 hours ago, Oreades said:

Personally I don't think they need any change. They work fine and already force the player to prioritize due to both their added toughness/damage and added effect. At least I know when an Eximus shows up generally they get my full attention cause they will ruin my day if I don't take care of them. 

 

 

I agree completely.

The only reason I'm giving this feedback, is because DE has had some really bad runs with implementing new ideas. Broken lights and nervo are perfect examples of the horror of their new ideas.

[brainjelly2g0]

I really like this idea, but a suggestion.

Sentients have huge amounts of EHP, enough to survive a full blast from an exquisitely modded Tigris Prime before they get their resistances. What if instead of the Eximi adapting to your damage types, they come preloaded with X amount of damage resistances, randomly selected. So, you could be sliding along, and you'd encounter 3 Eximi. The energy leech has 3 pieces of armor, and is resistant to Fire, Blast, and Puncture. The Guardian is resistant to only Puncture and Slash. And the Arson is resistant to Corrosive, Viral, Cold, and Impact. Additionally, each piece of armor should be colored for the damage type its resistant to, so you can aim at the one you want to get rid of.

Since they're randomly selected, it both encourages players to have mixed up damage types on their weapons, but also adds some skill.

[Alexion]

8 hours ago, brainjelly2g0 said:

I really like this idea, but a suggestion.

Sentients have huge amounts of EHP, enough to survive a full blast from an exquisitely modded Tigris Prime before they get their resistances. What if instead of the Eximi adapting to your damage types, they come preloaded with X amount of damage resistances, randomly selected. So, you could be sliding along, and you'd encounter 3 Eximi. The energy leech has 3 pieces of armor, and is resistant to Fire, Blast, and Puncture. The Guardian is resistant to only Puncture and Slash. And the Arson is resistant to Corrosive, Viral, Cold, and Impact. Additionally, each piece of armor should be colored for the damage type its resistant to, so you can aim at the one you want to get rid of.

Since they're randomly selected, it both encourages players to have mixed up damage types on their weapons, but also adds some skill.

I like this idea, especially the color representation on the armors. I also thought that making it only one armor piece per random Eximus that spawns and has a strong resistance, but to one damage type. 

 I also wanted to say that I'm not a huge fan of RNG, so that's why I had the OP state the resistances were adapted, and not random. But either way works, as long as they're not invulnerable.

ANYTHING BUT INVULNERABLE. 

[The66Monkey]

TBH i also like this idea simply as a way to market the in game armor sets. We have seen the lore grow as more corpus and grineer use the weapons associated with them. Seeing a corpus eximus unit with the porta armor looking bad ass or some big grineer sporting the Harkonar armor would make those units also look way more visually distinct and show that they are elite units.

[TyrusDalet]

4 hours ago, The66Monkey said:

TBH i also like this idea simply as a way to market the in game armor sets. We have seen the lore grow as more corpus and grineer use the weapons associated with them. Seeing a corpus eximus unit with the porta armor looking bad ass or some big grineer sporting the Harkonar armor would make those units also look way more visually distinct and show that they are elite units.

The idea of using the player-usable fashion as a way to spice up their respective races stronger units sounds amazing, would also allow for DE to make more varied and special attachments, by making them FOR the race Eximi, and THEN allowing us to obtain them. As some of the fashionframe (tm) parts don't really suit their race and seems like they were designed for Tenno, and based on a race; rather than their own armour taken from them.

[Yverou]

On 05/02/2017 at 6:57 AM, Titan303 said:

I'm sure many of us are a little upset about DE's lack of willingness to avoid making units invulnerable. Especially in a game that has you put so much effort into upgrading and multi-leveling your weapons through mods and Forma...

But here's my alternative ::

You know how Sentients have their proc/elemental resistances? Why not have the Sentients reach out to the Eximus Units, and instead of creating an invulnerable unit, you simple make it tankier with the same method?

Now here's the difference: The precision element they're wanting will still be available because the invulnerability nodes will be replaced with Sentient Armor, and when you shoot off a piece of armor, it removes one resistance that the Eximus has acquired.

Example: A Leech Eximus Charger will have something similar to a Pakal Armor piece on it's shoulder & thigh, from the damage done to it, it would have acquired Slash & Fire Resistance, so when one of those armor pieces comes off, one of the two buffs becomes removed. When both armor pieces are shot off, it becomes a basic Eximus Unit again.

Alternate/Optional Idea: Operator Damage can completely purge the armor from an Eximus Unit.

Edit 1:

Lore clarity - If an Eximus has an armor piece and they become corrupted in a Fissure mission, the armor falls off.

Also; corrupted Eximus in the void will not be applicable to this effect.

 

I completely agree with this idea, not only would the units be tankier but they wouldn't be invulnerable... Eximus invulnerability is just... Wow...... No thanks... High level Eximus units are a big problem as is - even with Top-Tier weapons and builds. Energy Leeches sap your energy is just a few seconds which means all ability usage just goes out the window. The idea of armour pieces that get shot off would be a lot nicer compared to that.

6 hours ago, The66Monkey said:

TBH i also like this idea simply as a way to market the in game armor sets. We have seen the lore grow as more corpus and grineer use the weapons associated with them. Seeing a corpus eximus unit with the porta armor looking bad ass or some big grineer sporting the Harkonar armor would make those units also look way more visually distinct and show that they are elite units.

 

I also completely agree with this down to down to the letter! The enemies would look much cooler and distinct than the typical Grineer and Corpus units we see. Honestly i'd be somewhat overjoyed to see DE implement that. 

 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I would simply like DE to not introduce mechanics that make my guns, blades, and powers irrelevant. It's like "We made a space ninja shooter slicer game, but when you face the tough enemies, none of that works! Neat trick, huh?"

[(XBOX)TheFancyJedi]

I personally don't have an issue with the units being invulnerable until you hit their weak points. Once you have really high level gear, the game becomes incredibly easy until the enemies levels are scaled up insanely high.

 

Since Warframe is an action game and not an RPG, stronger enemies should take more skill instead to defeat instead of just needing a properly modded weapon. One of my favorite encounter in the game is lephantis because he actually takes skill and precision to beat. It would be nice to see similar systems in the game. Most bosses are invulnerable except for weak spots, so I'm not sure why so many people have a problem with eximus units working in a similar way.

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

I want to see them go invulnerable aside from their weak points but with the weak points being reasonable to deal with, such as melee hits knocking one off per strike or punchthrough hitting them if it's on the back of the enemy, so they don't become super annoying to deal with or just another case of "lol throw a mirage with a simulor or tonkor at it"

[Theroxenes]

On 2/5/2017 at 10:55 PM, Titan303 said:

I like this idea, especially the color representation on the armors. I also thought that making it only one armor piece per random Eximus that spawns and has a strong resistance, but to one damage type. 

 I also wanted to say that I'm not a huge fan of RNG, so that's why I had the OP state the resistances were adapted, and not random. But either way works, as long as they're not invulnerable.

ANYTHING BUT INVULNERABLE. 

Yeah this is the clincher for me. I'm all for increasing challenge and varying up the gameplay, but adding *more* invulnerability is possibly the worst way to accomplish that goal. Enemies already have weakpoints and eximus have damage resistance up the wazoo, adding an inconsistent gate to killing them will make some missions very, very frustrating. Your armor concept sounds much more interesting/fair, and would also avoid some of the RNG potential that the showcased system seemed to have.

As a slight aside, giving elite units some specialized looks with armor sets and syandanas is a great idea in general. Imagine a Frost Eximus Bombard in full Rive Elite leading a squad of Riv Min grunts. Yes please.

[darko99]

feedback forum dont even work, devs dont pay attention and dont care what we say, happen all the time with previous bad decision with the game.

If they buff eximus units, they need to make them none allys buffs spammers, 1 ancient make inmortal every single enemy in a large range with HUGE damage eduction buff, to this add poison from flying things, energy leech, player debuff, hook from ancient, heal from ancient and tons of more buff from every eximus spam at end game, to add more, how is supposed to shot with precision one weak point when infested are melee attackers, and in a long time mission the spawn is just ridiculous+they are inmortal+all the thing i say before?

 

[helioth137]

So certain eximus units are literally invulnerable, in all shapes and forms, and there is no way around that?

In any game of skill, there is always a way, a strategy, an exception, to the rule, which rewards the player for executing that exception...

When there is no exception to that rule, and certain enemies are simply "immortal" and there is nothing you can do, well then it's a very simple "game over" situation, is it not?

Is that what the developers/ or anyone, actually wants? I thought they were thinking long term, and encouraged skill/ tactics/ uniqueness.

Correct me if I'm wrong. And, last points of clarification: Is this already implemented, or not? Will these enemies show up everywhere?
 

[(XBOX)TheFancyJedi]

11 hours ago, darko99 said:

feedback forum dont even work, devs dont pay attention and dont care what we say, happen all the time with previous bad decision with the game.

If they buff eximus units, they need to make them none allys buffs spammers, 1 ancient make inmortal every single enemy in a large range with HUGE damage eduction buff, to this add poison from flying things, energy leech, player debuff, hook from ancient, heal from ancient and tons of more buff from every eximus spam at end game, to add more, how is supposed to shot with precision one weak point when infested are melee attackers, and in a long time mission the spawn is just ridiculous+they are inmortal+all the thing i say before?

 

I think they definitely care about feedback. I think they want us to give it a chance in gameplay before judging it though. It shouldn't be a huge obstacle if they do it right. Its not like its super hard to get head shots in the game, even with melee weapons, I'm sure it would be just as easy to hit another spot on the enemies body.

[(XBOX)TheFancyJedi]

2 hours ago, helioth137 said:

So certain eximus units are literally invulnerable, in all shapes and forms, and there is no way around that?

In any game of skill, there is always a way, a strategy, an exception, to the rule, which rewards the player for executing that exception...

When there is no exception to that rule, and certain enemies are simply "immortal" and there is nothing you can do, well then it's a very simple "game over" situation, is it not?

Is that what the developers/ or anyone, actually wants? I thought they were thinking long term, and encouraged skill/ tactics/ uniqueness.

Correct me if I'm wrong. And, last points of clarification: Is this already implemented, or not? Will these enemies show up everywhere?
 

The eximus units will have two weak points that you have to shoot before the eximus unit can be killed. Until you hit those weak points, the unit won't take any damage. Reb had a hard time doing it on the dev stream, so people think it will be too difficult too kill them.

[helioth137]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)TheFancyJedi said:

The eximus units will have two weak points that you have to shoot before the eximus unit can be killed. Until you hit those weak points, the unit won't take any damage. Reb had a hard time doing it on the dev stream, so people think it will be too difficult too kill them.

ok well that's a lot different than one might think from the thread title/ content.

who is "reb" a skilled developer?

[(XBOX)TheFancyJedi]

16 minutes ago, helioth137 said:

ok well that's a lot different than one might think from the thread title/ content.

who is "reb" a skilled developer?

She's a community manager. She even said herself she's not that good at aiming so that's why it was hard for her. It was also an infested unit, so it was running around all crazy, which made it harder. They said they're going to put it out and then play around with it based on community feedback.

[helioth137]

25 minutes ago, (Xbox One)TheFancyJedi said:

She's a community manager. She even said herself she's not that good at aiming so that's why it was hard for her. It was also an infested unit, so it was running around all crazy, which made it harder. They said they're going to put it out and then play around with it based on community feedback.

can status effects be applied to it (such as slow?) this would make, with a little teamwork, or planning,
them only a minor "bump" to overcome; apply frost slow/ levitate/ blind, then shoot parts.

 

[(XBOX)TheFancyJedi]

28 minutes ago, helioth137 said:

can status effects be applied to it (such as slow?) this would make, with a little teamwork, or planning,
them only a minor "bump" to overcome; apply frost slow/ levitate/ blind, then shoot parts.

 

Yeah, Warframe powers will still work, so you'll be able to suspend them in the air with Vauban, freeze them, ect. I think it'll be a nice little change up. I'm not really sure why people are so upset by it. Then again, I don't really get why nullifiers piss people off so much either.

[helioth137]

13 minutes ago, (Xbox One)TheFancyJedi said:

Yeah, Warframe powers will still work, so you'll be able to suspend them in the air with Vauban, freeze them, ect. I think it'll be a nice little change up. I'm not really sure why people are so upset by it. Then again, I don't really get why nullifiers piss people off so much either.

"most people would rather die than think, in fact, many people do" hahaha, bertrand russell said that, i think there is some truth to it.

Personally i like how nullifiers/ juggernauts e.t.c mix the game up.

[LVVS]

What came to my mind instantly, when i saw it live in the devstream, was to just knock it down with a kick. Then spot it's vulnearbility whilest it lays "staggered" on the ground.

(You all know, spacebar+ctrl performs this useful kick that can knock down pretty much every single enemy  with a bit of luck, don't you ?!)

I wonder how many players know how to quickly just find the best strategy of dealing with any enemy that comes at you ... of course in a crowd dealing with such an opponent becomes far more demanding.