Glaive Prime, and probably glaives in general.

[SylvanEvergreen]

I looooooove the Glaive Prime so much. This is just another "DE please buff this weapon" thread and to be honest they don't feel like they have much point. I've never seen DE buff a weapon in the years that I've played, but even as that is so, Glaive Prime and glaives in general need a buff to their base damage if possible. It feels like the only way you can use glaives is by throwing them, and even then you can only hit one target at a time at a reasonably low rate. It's got ok throw damage, but even that leaves something to be desired. Anyway that's not my point, my point is, the base melee damage is incredibly low, and with no crit chance or status to buff, it's got nowhere to go. We've got freaking awesome stance mods like Astral Twilight for glaives, but what's the point in using those beautifully made animations if it deals less damage than one shot from my Boltor? Anyway, that's my two cents. I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this, 'cause 35 base damage is disgusting and I challenge anyone to say otherwise.

[Xion]

I seem to recall a few months ago, patch notes had a Glaive Prime exclusive buff that increased its damage from 35 to like 50 and gave its throw a guaranteed slash proc. Those buffs were never actually implemented into the game for some reason, but hopefully they come in the not-so-distance future. It was at the same time that the Sicarus Prime got buffed.

[SylvanEvergreen]

13 minutes ago, Xionyde134 said:

I seem to recall a few months ago, patch notes had a Glaive Prime exclusive buff that increased its damage from 35 to like 50 and gave its throw a guaranteed slash proc. Those buffs were never actually implemented into the game for some reason, but hopefully they come in the not-so-distance future. It was at the same time that the Sicarus Prime got buffed.

Yeah, I remember that, very disappointed it didn't go through.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

16 minutes ago, Xionyde134 said:

I seem to recall a few months ago, patch notes had a Glaive Prime exclusive buff that increased its damage from 35 to like 50 and gave its throw a guaranteed slash proc. Those buffs were never actually implemented into the game for some reason, but hopefully they come in the not-so-distance future. It was at the same time that the Sicarus Prime got buffed.

I'd actually like to see how many buffs DE has laying around that they haven't put into the game last minute.

[Reaver_X]

they need to give the glaive's more punchthrough

[majorcakey]

On 13/03/2017 at 5:23 AM, SylvanEvergreen said:

I looooooove the Glaive Prime so much. This is just another "DE please buff this weapon" thread and to be honest they don't feel like they have much point. I've never seen DE buff a weapon in the years that I've played, but even as that is so, Glaive Prime and glaives in general need a buff to their base damage if possible. It feels like the only way you can use glaives is by throwing them, and even then you can only hit one target at a time at a reasonably low rate. It's got ok throw damage, but even that leaves something to be desired. Anyway that's not my point, my point is, the base melee damage is incredibly low, and with no crit chance or status to buff, it's got nowhere to go. We've got freaking awesome stance mods like Astral Twilight for glaives, but what's the point in using those beautifully made animations if it deals less damage than one shot from my Boltor? Anyway, that's my two cents. I hope I'm not the only one that thinks this, 'cause 35 base damage is disgusting and I challenge anyone to say otherwise.

i know you may have your heart set on glaive prime but give the orvius and charge throws it is a new addition to my regular weapons but it is good

[DeMonkey]

On 3/13/2017 at 5:23 AM, SylvanEvergreen said:

I've never seen DE buff a weapon in the years that I've played

On 3/13/2017 at 5:30 AM, Xionyde134 said:

It was at the same time that the Sicarus Prime got buffed.

On 3/13/2017 at 5:44 AM, SylvanEvergreen said:

Yeah, I remember that, very disappointed it didn't go through.

Bit of a contradiction right there, don't you think? :P

But yeah. Buff the Glaive, otherwise I'll stick to playing Cernunnos in Smite instead. At least the Glaive works well there.

 

 

[Diarmut]

13 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Bit of a contradiction right there, don't you think? :P

But yeah. Buff the Glaive, otherwise I'll stick to playing Cernunnos in Smite instead. At least the Glaive works well there.

 

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Cernunnos is hella broken tho...

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[(PSN)ST-ChaoticMayhem]

The Cerata is probably my favorite throwing weapon since it has high crit and good status and is also element based. But the crit and status just doesn't do enough with such low damage, especially for a short range weapon. I know it's better to throw it, but with Astral Twilight, some of the attacks are close combat. I do think the glaives should get a base damage buff.

[(XBOX)PancakePidge]

I am in the same boat, I absolutely love glaives but it seems DE has forgotten about them, makes me sad.

[BrazilianJoe]

I keep advocating that Excalibur should have an "Exalted Glaive" mod for his 4 which would replace the "Blade" with (duh) a "Glaive", which rebounds in the manner of an Atomos beam and can be thrown infinitely - i.e. since it's made of energy, once the character throws he has another in his hands. 

And glaives in general should have their stats automatically vary between (+crit - stat) and (+stat - crit) if it has more or less bounces, making better use of bounce mods. 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I built and leveled the regular glaive, and I absolutely hated it. Such a clunky weapon, poor control, and really unimpressive performance. Once it hit rank 30, I deleted it. I like the idea of throwing weapons, though, and for glaives (and the like) I'd propose the following:

1. More damage, obviously. Seriously. More damage.

2. Glaives are thrown with Alt-Fire, not with the current melee attack button. There is no melee attack animation prior to the throw, either.

3. You target your enemies like Ash's revised Bladestorm - when you hold Alt-Fire, you can highlight enemies up to the limit of the weapon's bounces; releasing alt-fire throws the glaive. (this is not my idea, but I can't remember who here first suggested it)

[DrBorris]

Not to hijack the thread, but here is my take on ALL thrown melee weapons...

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 5:30 PM, DrBorris said:

Glaives suck, and that is coming from a person whose most used Weapon is Glaive Prime.

 

Just for comparison…

• Ogris: 500 damage, 1.5 second charge, 5% crit
• Penta (Secura): 350 (375) damage, 10% crit
• Rakta Cernos: 250 damage, .6 second charge, 35% crit
• Orthos (Prime): 50 (65) damage, 5% (10%) crit
• Dual Kamas Prime: 70 damage, 15% crit

 

I guess I should explain those weapon choices. Ogris is there as a primary comparison for a charged launcher as Glaive has both a charge time and an explosion. The charge time for Ogris is higher, So I added Penta in there as a faster fire rate so comparing it to Glaive would be somewhere between the two. Rakta Cernos is being brought into this because it is a single target projectile based charged weapon (similar to Glaives). And Orthos seems like a good melee comparison as it has the wide ranged attacks like the Glaives stances. Finally, I threw Dual Kamas Prime’s melee stats in the pool because while the Glaive stances do have some wide-ranging strikes, they also have some short ranged slashy-slashy similar to dual swords.

 

Now for Glaive Prime’s stats (as it has the best stats of the Glaives)

• Glaive Prime: 35 melee damage, 175 thrown damage, .7 second charge, 5% crit

And also note that Melee mods are considerably weaker than primary mods.

 

See? Glaives objectively suck.

Now, before someone runs in here saying “You are doing it wrong, just use x frame and get stealth multipliers”. Yes, that makes Glaive viable, but haven’t you noticed that all other melee categories are viable WITHOUT stealth multipliers? A weapon should NEVER be dependent on an ability to be viable, especially not an entire class of weapons. So no, take stealth multipliers out of this.

 

-------------------The Rework----------------------

Stances/Movement/Throwing

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Glaives give a great opportunity to give Stances a bit more meaning. Even right now Gleaming talon and Astral Twilight have their niches, Gleaming generally is more ranged combos while Astral is shorter ranged. However, Astral is pretty much always better right now.

So here is an idea, go all in on the concept of a short and long ranged stance. Expand the range of Gleaming’s attacks even further (and maybe add another combo) and make it so spin attacks with Gleaming equipped have you throw the Glaive at the end of your spin (inspired by Lunaro). Maybe even give the same functionality to aerial melee attacks.

With changes like this (and more fine tune tweaking of the stances) each stance will have their own solid niche. If you are all about having your Glaive be a thrown weapon, then you use Gleaming. If you want to keep your melee weapon within melee range, you use Astral.

 

Now for actually throwing the Glaive. Everyone complains about the slash before the throw, but that is a fact of Warframe we must live with. It can however be made to not be clunky quite easily.

Just change the first slash of all Glaive stances into a tight 360 degree orbit around you. If you “held” for the entirety of that hit (the trigger for a charge attack) then the Glaive will be thrown. If that is still unable to work with how Melee is coded, have it do the initial 360 rotation, then have the charge animation for the charge attack be another 360 degree rotation. This will also fix Glaives being throw from your left side (which makes a huge difference as being thrown from the right makes it easier to hit multiple targets and allows you to throw around corners).

Also, it would be really cool to throw your Glaive while in the air so maybe have the aerial melee attack (it already spins around you) end with a throw if you hold melee for the entire time.

 

In addition, let Glaives benefit from the combo counter. Note that the combo counter should pause when the Glaive is not on your Tenno so that you don’t lose your combo just in the time it takes to hit an enemy and come back to you.

 

Finally, Power Throw needs some tweaks. Because you may want punch through but no boom, split up Power Throw's effects into two mods. Power Throw will no longer cause an explosion, but now it has a stacking mechanic where the Glaive will deal 25% more damage per enemy hit in succession per throw. Then create a new mod that causes a thrown melee to explode on the last bounce.

 

(And one more stupid addition, make a new holster position for Glaives on your back.)

Damage

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Buff it… a lot. I brought up in the beginning how Glaive compares to similar weapons, so buff the hell out of it. My recommendation would be to make it 1200 damage for Glaive Prime (Glaive Prime is the peak of thrown damage).

 

*gasp amongst the crowd*

 

Yeah, that is one hell of a buff. However, there are two major caveats. First is that the Glaive-splosion damage is half of the direct hit damage. Second, a thrown melee no longer gains stealth multipliers. These two changes are to prevent Glaive from becoming the most powerful explosive weapon by a mile and to make sure stealth frames don’t make Glaives insanely overpowered.

And before you directly compare those stats to the weapons in the beginning, do the math. Melee mods are MUCH weaker than primary weapon mods, from what I have calculated this sits the damage of a direct hit from Glaive well below that of Rakta Cernos or Dread and the explosion damage is between Ogris and Penta.

Here is the modded damage of a Glaive compared to other weapons

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Rakta Cernos: 18513

Dread: 20492

Penta: 3370

Tonkor: 8079

Glaive Prime: 13358 (6679 explosion damage)

 

Weapon by Weapon changes.

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I would like to note how awesome the thrown weapon category is. Each one has its own niche and can play vastly differently from each other. Compared to any other melee category where the biggest changes are how much damage they do, thrown weapons are a breath of fresh air where each is special and (theoretically) viable for their own purpose.

 

Glaive (Prime)

These two glaives should be the ones specializing in just high thrown damage. I would recommend buffing Glaive up to 50 base damage and a base thrown damage of 1000. And as for the Prime I would give it a base damage of 55 and a thrown damage of 1200.

Status chance of thrown attack is an unmoddable 50% chance.

Kestrel

Kestrel is in a similar position as Glaive in that it should be thrown based (because hitting someone with a boomerang does not sound super effective). I would give Kestrel a base damage of 45 but a thrown damage of 1000. This might need to be rethought if kestrel prime ever comes into existence, but I am aiming for it to be a competitor to Glaive Prime (don’t forget about the forced ragdoll).

Halikar

Halikar should disarm 100% of the time. It is not too much to ask as the amount of targets you hit will always be small and Glaives are intended to be one shot weapons generally, so if the target isn’t dead, they are at least disarmed. I would then give it the same stats as Glaive as the two utility benefits of Halikar bring it up quite a bit (50 base and 1000 thrown).

Switch the traditional Glaive-splosion with a blind effect.

Cerata

This would be the primarily slashy-slashy glaive. I would only give a slight buff to base damage up to 40, but buff its crit chance to 20% and the crit multiplier to 2.5x. Then I would give it a base thrown damage of 850.

Possibly reduce the thrown damage even further but have the critical chance for the throw increase with the combo meter.

Orvius

The newest one to the Glaive family, Orvius also has its own very special thing going. It of course first needs the basic melee strike damage buff to 55. Then buff its thrown damage to 1000. As for the levitating mechanic, have it deal 1000 damage over the course of the DoT and then another 1000 when it explodes.

 

Maybe one day Glaives will be viable… one day…