Why the weapon rebalance is more than just numbers

[TheTundraTerror]

This isn't about the nerfing of the 4 meta weapons. Plenty has been said on the subject and rightly so. This is about something more concerning. It's about DE. It's about what DE says and what DE does and how they sometimes don't align.

Let's make Huey Lewis and go back in time to when Rivens were first released. In the midst of all that was and was being said, DE made the follow thier statement on Riven mods:

"The point of Riven mods is to breathe new life into old weapons."

Now, I'm paraphrasing here and I'm not aware of any update to this since then. So, with that in mind, this weapon rebalance can only be seen, at best, as an admission that Rivens are not fulfilling their purpose of "breathing new life into old weapons" or, at worst, that they never were supposed to fill that roll. 

So, with the Rivens part out of the way, let's roll onto the other issue that this weapon rebalance brings up: Hema research costs. DE's official statement is that "reducing the Hema's research costs would invalidate the hard work people put into it". But isn't nerfing a group of weapons that people spent time, resources, and even money to acquire, build, and level "invalidating their hard work"?

"But you get a free Forma for each of the weapons you leveled and a booster!" Yes, a Forma. A Single Forma. My Tonkor alone used 6 Forma. But this just further adds to my point about the Hema's build costs. If they're worried about "invalidating people's hard work" like they, allegedly, are with the Hema, why not give players who invested into the weapon some kind of resource refunding or a consolation prize?
 

This weapon rebalance has opened up a can of worms.

Edited March 22, 2017 by TheTundraTerror

[brainjelly2g0]

As of when I checked it a few moments ago, it's a Forma for each Forma you placed on each of the rebalanced weapons, along with a 3-day Affinity booster.

As for the rest of your post, many old weapons have had new life breathed into them. I find myself using my Akmagnus more than the Aklex, and the Prisma Grakata far outpaces my Soma Prime. However, some weapons are just too far down (i.e Hind, Miter, Panthera, and Harpak), and they need a bit more than just a bunch of damage and crit chance increases. The vast majority of Rivens I've gotten have made me try the weapon its for, and about half of the 15 Rivens I have I use. These changes are to bring the ridiculously

Spoiler

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underpowered weapons up to the par that the Grakata and Latron's are at. The Riven system might not have been all encompassing in its buffs, but it certainly has helped out the majority of weapons.

[TheTundraTerror]

15 minutes ago, brainjelly2g0 said:

As of when I checked it a few moments ago, it's a Forma for each Forma you placed on each of the rebalanced weapons, along with a 3-day Affinity booster.

This is what was said

Quote

If you have invested into a nerfed weapon, when the Update releases there will be an Inbox message generated on Login to give you a single 3 day Affinity Booster and a Forma per owned weapon to reconfigure your weapons as you see fit!

So, yeah. A whopping 3 Forma since who really forma'd and kept the normal Simulor.

15 minutes ago, brainjelly2g0 said:

find myself using my Akmagnus more than the Aklex

The former were always good. People just didn't realize it. 25% crit and status chance on a secondary pistols is near godly.

15 minutes ago, brainjelly2g0 said:

Prisma Grakata far outpaces my Soma Prime

Again, same deal. Of course, issue was people always trying to build for crit instead of focusing on the status it has and building it along side the crit.

15 minutes ago, brainjelly2g0 said:

The Riven system might not have been all encompassing in its buffs, but it certainly has helped out the majority of weapons.

The only weapons it helped out were the ones that were already good. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by TheTundraTerror

[Justice_Ember]

Apparently Hema cost is the new way to politicize any change in the game. 

Btw, you get a formal bundle, that's 3 forma and afinity booster for three days.

[TheTundraTerror]

8 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Apparently Hema cost is the new way to politicize any change in the game. 

Okay, tell me why I'm wrong for bringing this up? Am I wrong for expecting DE to stick to what they say? If DE's going to keep using it, I'm going to keep using it.

8 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Btw, you get a formal bundle, that's 3 forma and afinity booster for three days.

Wow, a whole 3 Forma! That's like half of what I spent on the Tonkor alone! Actually, no, that's wrong. It's since been clarified.

From Rebecca on the subreddit:

If you have invested into a nerfed weapon, when the Update releases there will be an Inbox message generated on Login to give you a single 3 day Affinity Booster and a Forma per owned weapon to reconfigure your weapons as you see fit!

So, if you, for some reason, Forma'd and kept the original Simulor, you get 4.

Edited March 22, 2017 by TheTundraTerror

[Justice_Ember]

5 minutes ago, TheTundraTerror said:

Okay, tell me why I'm wrong for bringing this up?

Wow, a whole 3 Forma! That's like half of what I spent on the Tonkor alone! Actually, no, that's wrong.

From Rebecca on the subreddit:

If you have invested into a nerfed weapon, when the Update releases there will be an Inbox message generated on Login to give you a single 3 day Affinity Booster and a Forma per owned weapon to reconfigure your weapons as you see fit!

Alright, my bad I read it wrong. Still a forma it's still pretty good considering other nerfs have gone practically with not even a heads up.

As for politicizing, adding an overly discussed topic that polarizes the community to make a bigger deal out of this nerf than it needs to be it's a political move. So don't beat the metaphorical horse anymore please.

[TheTundraTerror]

19 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Still a forma it's still pretty good considering other nerfs have gone practically with not even a heads up.

"It could have been worse".

19 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

As for politicizing, adding an overly discussed topic that polarizes the community to make a bigger deal out of this nerf than it needs to be it's a political move.

Okay... now is the part where you tell me why DE's reason for not lowering Hema's build cost doesn't apply here. This isn't a "political move". This is holding DE to what they say.

Edited March 22, 2017 by TheTundraTerror

[DEATHLOK]

I think the changes to Telos Boltace are ill-thought and unwelcome.

"Now the slide attack . . . does nothing!"

Not looking forward to this. Are they seriously going to add self-damage to Tonkor? And some aim-guiding nonsense?

[Xiusa]

7 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

I think the changes to Telos Boltace are ill-thought and unwelcome.

"Now the slide attack . . . does nothing!"

Not looking forward to this. Are they seriously going to add self-damage to Tonkor? And some aim-guiding nonsense?

It's better than the macro-junkies holding onto it for dear life like it's their first born child. Tonkor always had the "aim-guiding nonsense"

[TheTundraTerror]

18 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

I think the changes to Telos Boltace are ill-thought and unwelcome.

"Now the slide attack . . . does nothing!"

Not looking forward to this. Are they seriously going to add self-damage to Tonkor? And some aim-guiding nonsense?

I only ever used it to open crates. I guess DE felt the weapon made Syndicate Medallion hunting a little too easy. Now, if I were crazy, I'd think DE didn't like how people were so easily able to collect and hoard Medallions in preparation for the next Prime Access.

[DEATHLOK]

I'm sure the next few weeks will supply you with all manner of opportunities to express your disdain and condescension.

[Reaver_X]

1 hour ago, TheTundraTerror said:

I only ever used it to open crates. I guess DE felt the weapon made Syndicate Medallion hunting a little too easy. Now, if I were crazy, I'd think DE didn't like how people were so easily able to collect and hoard Medallions in preparation for the next Prime Access.

 

how does that prepare for prime access?

[(PSN)JTmothertcker]

13 minutes ago, Reaver_X said:

 

how does that prepare for prime access?

because there is no limit to how many medalions you can have, so the moment prime access drops you just go to a relay and cha ching 75, 80, 100 or 1000 brand new relics less than 15 min after launch

[Reaver_X]

ah, i thought u meant u could trade medallions or something.

[DEATHLOK]

Some gamers dominated low-level missions with Telos Boltace, the way some would with Synoid Simulor and Mirage. There have been times when I've been angered by that guy who rushes ahead and kills everything on the map, reducing shared Affinity. I understand those two nerfs, because these weapons were being abused, but will miss opening crates with Telos Boltace. And that's probably why it is getting nerfed, in particular.

I have never seen anyone abuse other players with Tonkor. You can't flying through a map and spam it. It's a short range weapon. Fired it haphazardly and you'll never hit anything. I pretty much have to stand still with it, and love using it on Excavation missions—pretty much the only time I use it. It is the best weapon I've seen for crowd control oin certain mission types. Nerfing Tonkor is an asinine move. You don't wreck Affinity sharing with Tonkor. It's probably one of a small handful of weapons that work at high levels, which obviously upsets someone at DE. The resentment guiding some of their design decisions has always been at odds with common sense.

My feeling is that the Telos Boltace nerf is meant more to reduce Syndicate standing and Relic hording than affinity abuse in low-level missions. I can't wrap my head about the nerfs to the Tonkor, and that's what really makes me angry at DE right now.

Edited March 23, 2017 by DEATHLOK

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

22 hours ago, Xiusa said:

Tonkor always had the "aim-guiding nonsense"

You mean "holding down the button to show a magical line to gauge a LoS trajectory to launch the 3-second-to-detonate slug upon release of held button"?

No, the Tonkor never had that bullS#&$ mechanic.

[Xiusa]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

You mean "holding down the button to show a magical line to gauge a LoS trajectory to launch the 3-second-to-detonate slug upon release of held button"?

No, the Tonkor never had that bullS#&$ mechanic.

When you aim down your sights with the Tonkor it will show you the trajectory of the grenade. This has always been a feature that it had

[Cazzzz]

Wow, another post complaining about how the meta changes.

What contract did you sign that said the meta was never going to change? If you can't predict this kind of thing, almost serves you right to lose those (however many) forma you invested into a 'meta' weapon. That's why I use a weapon for fun, not for a meta need. As of now, there isn't anything that is off limits because of a meta restriction. It just might take a bit more effort/time to complete an objective.

It's a changing game, get used to it.

(I'll give you the points for [DE]'s contradicting statements, that is something I agree they need to look at)

[VentiGlondi]

Rivens are a mixed bag. Worked out for some weapons, meanwhile Paracyst was below average even with +300% damage.

While I'm really happy about the simulor changes, and tonkor's self damage seems to be just for the sake of consistency, I don't really understand the nerf to Tonkor's crit chance. Let it be the strongest launcher ever, just don't let it be the strongest AND lowest risk weapon.

On 22.03.2017 at 10:15 PM, TheTundraTerror said:

So, with the Rivens part out of the way, let's roll onto the other issue that this weapon rebalance brings up: Hema research costs. DE's official statement is that "reducing the Hema's research costs would invalidate the hard work people put into it". But isn't nerfing a group of weapons that people spent time, resources, and even money to acquire, build, and level "invalidating their hard work"?

Considering DE did invalidate people's work before and handed out stuff to compensate for it, this argument works better for the anti-Hema research discussion, honestly.

Edited March 23, 2017 by VentiGlondi