Fixing the Trading system is an easy and meaningful update

[(XBOX)XXXtraSauce68]

On 4/2/2017 at 4:41 PM, Heckzu said:

Here's something most people don't seem to understand.

Games that have an automated trading system were either created to have it at the start, or experienced an economic crash on its implementation.

Warframe didn't even have trading in the beginning. Thus, you can't say an auction house / broker system will work in Warframe because it worked in some other game you've played because that other game probably had it from the start, before it had a running economy. And if that other game did implement trading after its inception, chances are it experienced a large scale deflation. In Warframe, massive deflation would hinder the ability for free to play players to progress.

There are also other games that don't use an automated trading system and have stable economies. Maplestory used a bazaar type system and was quite popular back in the day. Mabinogi uses a bazaar system in combination with a garage sale type of trading and manual trading with advertising via chat.  

How would it hinder free players, hmm? If the things free players can farm, then sell, get cheaper because everyone is flooding the market with the same items... It doesn't hurt them. If they want to sell a Vauban BP for 200p to buy a Ember Chassis for 200p, but its only selling for 100 in the Auction House because there are a ton more, then the same applies to the Ember Chassis. There are more being sold, so the price drops, and wow! Look at that, now your Ember Chassis is only 100p too. The only players that an AH in Warframe would hurt would be the people that are only playing the market, or at least, 75% of their time on the game is spend buying and selling, and spamming trade chat, and diddling around Maroo's. Well, if they wanted to play that game, they should've played Runescape or something. Warframe is SPACE NINJAS. 

[TaylorsContraction]

One way to tackle abuse of an auction house in addition to everything that has been said is to put a platinum cost for listing an item in the ah.

It can be 1 platinum,  5 or a fraction of the charge.

If the cost to list an item in the ah is 2 platinum no one is going to list items worth 1-2 platinum as then they'd make no profits from the transaction.

This simple idea can go a long way to preventing abuse of the ah to list useless,  mindless junk that will just eat up database space.

Someone decides to make 100 ammo drum entries,  suddenly this level of stupidity has some counter to it.

[Heckzu]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)SupahSchwifty said:

How would it hinder free players, hmm? If the things free players can farm, then sell, get cheaper because everyone is flooding the market with the same items... It doesn't hurt them. If they want to sell a Vauban BP for 200p to buy a Ember Chassis for 200p, but its only selling for 100 in the Auction House because there are a ton more, then the same applies to the Ember Chassis. There are more being sold, so the price drops, and wow! Look at that, now your Ember Chassis is only 100p too. The only players that an AH in Warframe would hurt would be the people that are only playing the market, or at least, 75% of their time on the game is spend buying and selling, and spamming trade chat, and diddling around Maroo's. Well, if they wanted to play that game, they should've played Runescape or something. Warframe is SPACE NINJAS. 

Suppose you wanted to buy the Hunhow's Gift bundle. That costs 516 plat. Currently, if you farm 4 Valkyr Prime sets and sell them for 130 plat each, you'll have 520 plat, enough to buy Hunhow's Gift.

But let's suppose DE implements an auction house. So you go to the auction house, and it's full of the stuff you're trying to sell. Suppose the auction house drove down prices of a Valkyr Prime set to 65 plat each. How many Valkyr Prime sets do you have to now farm and sell to earn Hunhow's Gift? 8 Sets, as opposed to 4.

Sure, the exchange rate between primed parts might remain relatively the same, but the exchange rate for in-game market items increases substantially. It becomes harder for the free to play player to buy cosmetics, inventory slots, potatoes, etc. because plat gain would lower while in-game market prices remain the same.

[NeithanDiniem]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)SupahSchwifty said:

1. People do this anyway, they farm prime parts, and wait for them to be vaulted, then overcharge. Not an issue.

2. It's still against the terms to do this, and anyone who does can be banned. Not like that'll change.

3. Duh? Why would anyone be AGAINST DE expanding their servers anyway? The thing that makes the game run smoother, ya know?

4. Nope. Just use the exact same system that is already in place to recover "lost" items. I've had power outages and then received prime parts in my inbox. Already exists, man.

5. No S#&$, sherlock. That's Econ 101, man. That's not an issue. Like stating "apples are red"... and...? So what? Prices drop and fall already. 

6. You CAN compare them, you just have to take into account those concepts. Like you just compared two stars (Straw-manning the hell out of that, too)

All an Auction House will do for Warframe is make buying and selling things easier. Getting the two people who have items to meet and exchange their items at less of a cost to their time, effort, energy, etc. Which leaves more room to play the game. If I wanted to play a game like some Arabian carpet salesman at his stall screaming his wares to anyone's within earshot while everyone else does the same thing... I'd play that game. Warframe is Space-Ninja-Badassery with lazers and spaceships and S#&$. Yet, somehow, we don't have Ebay? Seriously?

1. Completely different issue. Don't shoehorn it in and assume it is comparable. Buying out an existing item's stock and then upcharging is not the same as waiting for a profitable time to sell farmed goods.

2. Doesn't mean DE should make the task easier for them.

3. Servers strictly to hold trade data will not make the game run any smoother, hate to break your bubble.

4. Tell that to all the people that swarm the forums complaining of bugged rewards not delivering.

5. And this system would make that accelerate to an exponential degree, as seen in nearly every game that introduces such a system.

6. And you are not taking into account the way that a video game econony is incredibly different from real world and how an economic crash is stupidly easy to occur if there isnt enough tradable items to support it. There are full on studies over these things that compare them that you can read at your leisure.

[NeithanDiniem]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

I just want to be able to pre-set a trade with a specified price, then feed that into the Trade Chat. Someone sees it, activates it, puts up the requested price, and then it's done - I don't have to chat with anyone, haggle, fly to a dojo, troll Maroo's bazaar, or any of that. 

The process would be like this:

1. Load Trade: add items to a trade-interface like window, for example, put the Ash Prime set in there.

2. Specify platinum price for the item. 

3. Click "Send to Trade Chat"

4. In trade chat, someone sees the offer, and goes to my Username or clicks on the offer and up pops the trade window on their screen. They put in the requested platinum, hit "trade," and it's done: platinum appears in my account, items appear in theirs. 

This is probably the most plausible solution to the trade issue I have seen yet.

[Rioma]

You think you want it until it gets bugged and thousand of purchases don't work out.

Or everyone loses their items because of a hotfix

Would you roll back the entire community because the auction house bugged out?

Edit: Also our servers are huge, and we can swap servers just by going to the options menu. We don't have mini little worlds dividing each individual market. You would literally have to limit every account to like 1 item at a time. And even then ppl would make new accounts just to sell more things.

Edited April 4, 2017 by xXRiomaXx

[ScoutingJ]

i just want a system where people BUY THINGS NOT SIT THERE AND TALK ABOUT HOW HOT THE FEMALE WARFRAMES ARE

 

P.S.: how about a system where, say, instead of standing around like an idiot there is a terminal inside the bazaar that player use to post things they are wanting to sell, No auctions, nothing just a platform for the trade system. Also, auctions are going on anyway, as far as i can tell at least

Edited April 5, 2017 by ScoutingJ
i wanted to explain further

[[DE]Momaw]

10 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

One way to tackle abuse of an auction house in addition to everything that has been said is to put a platinum cost for listing an item in the ah.

It can be 1 platinum,  5 or a fraction of the charge.

If the cost to list an item in the ah is 2 platinum no one is going to list items worth 1-2 platinum as then they'd make no profits from the transaction.

This simple idea can go a long way to preventing abuse of the ah to list useless,  mindless junk that will just eat up database space.

Someone decides to make 100 ammo drum entries,  suddenly this level of stupidity has some counter to it.

This

1. makes it impossible to start trading unless you have platinum already, so have fun dealing with all the people who locked themselves out of trading because they spent their starter platinum on warframe slots
2. increases prices of everything across the board; dealers don't pay regulatory fees, consumers do. Adding 2 plat worth of regulatory fees just means the minimum item price changes from 1-2 plat to 3-4 plat to preserve profit margins for dealers, i.e. literally half the platinum being spent in trading just vanishes into a black hole benefiting nobody.

 

2 minutes ago, ScoutingJ said:

i just want a system where people BUY THINGS NOT SIT THERE AND TALK ABOUT HOW HOT THE FEMALE WARFRAMES ARE

It's interesting how many people complain that it's hard to sell things in trade at a useful price, and think the situation will get easier by adding a zero-friction auction house where suddenly there's a thousand times more people all trying to sell the same things you're already not selling.

[ScoutingJ]

i never said the aution house was the way to go. go reread my last comment and stop taking your anger at others out on random people. Thanks

[PatternistSlave]

On 4/1/2017 at 7:20 PM, Vallerian said:

Making the trading system better is a very low hanging fruit in terms of improving Warframe, and it'd make a massive difference for almost everyone, so I'm very surprised that trading is still so garbage especially now that there are Riven mods which make an effective trading system way more important than before.

DE is trying too hard and making trading too complicated. The Trade chat channel chaotic AF, and I don't know anybody who uses Maroo's Bazaar

What normal people want from a trade system:

• No stupid dojo, no lame relay. The trading system should just be another console in the orbiter. (Like Ebay???)
• You should be able to just list an item for sale at a price you want, then all other players can see it by searching for it in their trade console. 
• You can set a 'auto buy', and let people bid offers on your item (Like Ebay??)
• Items can be sorted by category (just like our inventory) then filtered/ordered by name, price, seller, whatever
• If I'm looking to buy a Skana Riven mod, I should just be able to go to my orbiter console > Riven section > Search "Skana" > browse through the list of results sorted by offering price
• If I don't like the price, I should be able to just make a bid or leave the seller a note in his trading console even if the seller is offline. That way when the seller relogs, he can just go to his trade console and check messages regarding his items.

Pros:

• WAYYYYY easier to buy and sell items
• You can passively sell items even when you're offline instead of spamming Trade channel or standing around like a goof in the Bazaar
• People are less likely to get ripped off on items because they can see the fair market price of everything, along with how much people are offering for similar items
• People can immediately shop the items they want instead of spamming the trade channel on the off chance somebody else online right now is reads your message in the trade chat that's scrolling at 1000 lines/minute and happens to be selling that particular item
• DE can even make extra $$$$ off this feature by making players buy Shop Licenses in order to sell X number of items

Cons:

• DE would have to think of creative and meaningful ways to get people to use relays / dojos / maroo's bazaar instead of forcing players to use these places to trade.

 

Edit:

I'm aware a large portion of the player-base is opposed to an auction house because there's the potential it would destroy the value of normal items (regular mods, prime parts, etc) but maybe it's time to reconsider

• Most normal items (between 1p-50p) are incredibly hard to sell, flood the trade channel with items that almost nobody really wants to see, and most of the time the sellers end up selling the item way below what they think it's worth anyway just because it's so hard to find a buyer. An auction house would likely drop the value of all these items down to 1p, but realistically most players are probably going to make more plat selling all their trash for 1p each than they are currently making holding onto these items and spamming trade. 
• Big ticket items (especially Rivens) are making huge profits for experienced traders. I don't consider myself a 'pro' by any means, I barely skim the trade channel but was able to pick up several Riven mods worth well over 500p for less than half of that just this morning. The trade channel is unfair, most people have no idea how much their big ticket items are worth and there is no easy resource in-game or otherwise that can price check these items. The little guy just gets screwed 9/10 times
• Because DE decided to release Rivens, it's possible they'll be releasing more RNG-based late-game content in the future. This means there will be even more big-ticket items on the market, further increasing the need for a proper auction house

TL;DR We're currently artificially inflating the value of small items just because it's inconvenient to find them. What we should do is stop trying to protect the value of these nearly worthless trinkets, and focus on the future.

The easier it is to trade and the easier it is to see prices, the easier it is for the less honorable among us to completely break the economy.

[Fallen_Echo]

11 hours ago, Heckzu said:

Suppose you wanted to buy the Hunhow's Gift bundle. That costs 516 plat. Currently, if you farm 4 Valkyr Prime sets and sell them for 130 plat each, you'll have 520 plat, enough to buy Hunhow's Gift.

But let's suppose DE implements an auction house. So you go to the auction house, and it's full of the stuff you're trying to sell. Suppose the auction house drove down prices of a Valkyr Prime set to 65 plat each. How many Valkyr Prime sets do you have to now farm and sell to earn Hunhow's Gift? 8 Sets, as opposed to 4.

Sure, the exchange rate between primed parts might remain relatively the same, but the exchange rate for in-game market items increases substantially. It becomes harder for the free to play player to buy cosmetics, inventory slots, potatoes, etc. because plat gain would lower while in-game market prices remain the same.

Dude, have you ever heard of the warframe market?

Most people with some common sense get their prices from there.

If the market says no one is buying valkyr prime sets for more then 65p than you are out of luck.

The need to get price and seller information created that website and its pretty popular.

Its better for f2p's too since no ome can rip them off that easily anymore.

I have several no longer avaible relics stashed and if i want to sell the rare rewards from them i need trustable info and that website has it.

An ingame auction house would have the same effect, but if you are afraid that once people notice how many of a certain mod is avaible you lose profit, i need to point out that could happen anytime as more people use the wf market.

[Heckzu]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Dude, have you ever heard of the warframe market?

Most people with some common sense get their prices from there.

If the market says no one is buying valkyr prime sets for more then 65p than you are out of luck.

The need to get price and seller information created that website and its pretty popular.

Its better for f2p's too since no ome can rip them off that easily anymore.

I have several no longer avaible relics stashed and if i want to sell the rare rewards from them i need trustable info and that website has it.

An ingame auction house would have the same effect, but if you are afraid that once people notice how many of a certain mod is avaible you lose profit, i need to point out that could happen anytime as more people use the wf market.

Warframe.market works right now for two reasons:

1. It is not connected to Warframe. No trades are conducted through Warframe.market, it is merely an organized posting board for offers. It does no eliminate player interation, which an auction house would.
2. Only a minority of Warframe players actually use Warframe.market. This helps reduce the amount of undercutting that happens on the website. If an in-game auction house were implemented, you can expect massive quantities of undercutting, causing deflation across the board, save for very limit items such as Primed Chamber.

The consequence for the availability of information provided by an auction house is a deflated economy.

Guess what. The price of items in the in-game store won't change despite the in-game economy. This means that if everything is worth less, it becomes harder to obtain items that cannot be obtained through trading: cosmetics, warframe / weapon slots, orokin catalysts, orokin reactors, etc.

So how is it better for free to play players if they can no longer afford anything from the in-game store? You can't fashion frame if you can't buy cosmetics, you can't have a larger arsenal if you can't buy weapon slots, you can't min-max your weapons / warframes if you can't afford orokin catalysts / reactors. 

[Fallen_Echo]

12 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

Warframe.market works right now for two reasons:

1. It is not connected to Warframe. No trades are conducted through Warframe.market, it is merely an organized posting board for offers. It does no eliminate player interation, which an auction house would.
2. Only a minority of Warframe players actually use Warframe.market. This helps reduce the amount of undercutting that happens on the website. If an in-game auction house were implemented, you can expect massive quantities of undercutting, causing deflation across the board, save for very limit items such as Primed Chamber.

The consequence for the availability of information provided by an auction house is a deflated economy.

Guess what. The price of items in the in-game store won't change despite the in-game economy. This means that if everything is worth less, it becomes harder to obtain items that cannot be obtained through trading: cosmetics, warframe / weapon slots, orokin catalysts, orokin reactors, etc.

So how is it better for free to play players if they can no longer afford anything from the in-game store? You can't fashion frame if you can't buy cosmetics, you can't have a larger arsenal if you can't buy weapon slots, you can't min-max your weapons / warframes if you can't afford orokin catalysts / reactors. 

Look it from the other side.

You couldnt be scammed anymore

Your items now will show their true worth

Due to the upper reason trading becomes faster

When someone gets their hand on something valuable they now can sell it on a "community agreed" price so no one can undercut or overprice items

 

Despite what you have wrote here, our current economy is working just like an auction house its just slower and more prone to violent price changes. A newbie still cant buy their desired fashion frame items if a part of the traders decided that what he sell worth only 50% of what he wants.

For example vaulted items grow in price while avaible to everybody relic items go down fast. I have bought my soma prime last year for 20 plat now its worth 120p, while the valkyr prime set is now only 100p opposing to what was it.

 

I need to ask what exactly you fear could happen?

Worthless items becoming unsellable? check

Semi-rare mods wont sell for more than 60p? check

Some mods and items got skyrocketed prices? check

[Heckzu]

27 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You couldnt be scammed anymore

That is incorrect. Players are still vulnerable to being scammed under the guise of purchasing a service, such as paying to get into a clan that has Hema researched.

29 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Your items now will show their true worth

This is also incorrect. Having full visibility to the supply enables the possibility of monopolization, especially for limited items. It has happened in games with an auction house. One such example is Kamizuma, Tera's wealthiest player who is known for being able to monopolize items.

34 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Due to the upper reason trading becomes faster

In an auction house system, purchasing becomes quicker because all sellers are visible. However, selling in an auction house system become slower, as you are competing with the rest of the player base to sell the same item, whereas currently you're only competing with other people currently using the trade chat.

39 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

When someone gets their hand on something valuable they now can sell it on a "community agreed" price so no one can undercut or overprice items

Do you honestly think people won't undercut or overpriced? You are really naive. I have personally seen the desperation of people trying to sell items on an in-game auction house, driving prices down, and I have seen the length to which people will invest in order to make profit by purchasing all instances of an item and reselling it for higher. It happens in reality, and it happens in games. If Warframe gets an auction house, it will not be an exception.

The only thing that prevents monopolization or massive scale markup is that supply is limited to whoever's on the trade chat and is invisible. An in-game auction house would make the global supply visible and available, which can be exploited.

[Fallen_Echo]

7 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

That is incorrect. Players are still vulnerable to being scammed under the guise of purchasing a service, such as paying to get into a clan that has Hema researched.This has nothing to do with an auction house

This is also incorrect. Having full visibility to the supply enables the possibility of monopolization, especially for limited items. It has happened in games with an auction house. One such example is Kamizuma, Tera's wealthiest player who is known for being able to monopolize items.You can do that here too, just look at people who sell ignis wraith. We have lots of limited items and most people already hold monopoly on certain stuff.

In an auction house system, purchasing becomes quicker because all sellers are visible. However, selling in an auction house system become slower, as you are competing with the rest of the player base to sell the same item, whereas currently you're only competing with other people currently using the trade chat.Im sorry but these are the same. In the current case you compete with the people in the chat to get the most profit, in an auctiom you compete with the sellers to get the most profit.

Do you honestly think people won't undercut or overpriced? You are really naive. I have personally seen the desperation of people trying to sell items on an in-game auction house, driving prices down, and I have seen the length to which people will invest in order to make profit by purchasing all instances of an item and reselling it for higher. It happens in reality, and it happens in games. If Warframe gets an auction house, it will not be an exception. Yes people may try but currently when you cant see other peoples offers its much harder to realize you were undercutted or you bought something overpriced.

The only thing that prevents monopolization or massive scale markup is that supply is limited to whoever's on the trade chat and is invisible. An in-game auction house would make the global supply visible and available, which can be exploited.

So let me go back to my original question.

Why are you against it?

What do you fear could happen because what you said is already ingame.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

There are two main reasons your system will never work and why any auction house will never work in warframe.

First, warframe is far too generous.  Warframe is designed so that if a person wants something they can get it through their own work in a reasonable amount of time.  There are exceptions of course but with an auction house the cost of EVERYTHING will crash to less than 10p (including your rivens) because warframe is so generous with it's drop rates.  This is because DE has maintained that COMPLETELY solo play should be viable way to play their game and I agree with their decision.  If drop rates were lowered to accommodate an auction house the assumption is that you would most of the time get useless things as rewards and you would need to trade most of the time for the things you need.  Without a doubt this would be an inferior way to play warframe.

Second, if you introduce an auction house the people hurt most are the free players.  One of the reasons warframe is so good is that DE essentially allows free players to trade play time for premium currency.  So rather than DE selling a part directly or letting a third party to illegally sell currency, they allow free players to sell their extra parts for premium currency.  This more or less creates a middle class of players who cannot or will not pay to earn plat.  Trading is an inconvenience.  This inconvenience removes most of all things that drop in warframe from the pool of items that might be traded.  Only those that need or want parts or plat will spend the time trying to trade.  This allows players who want plat to earn plat to earn plat in a reasonable amount of time if they do not want to or cannot buy it directly.  Introducing an auction house would destroy the mechanism by which free players acquire plat because the items they sell are worth less and the paying players can purchase what they want for less.  This means more of the plat from paying players goes into directly to DE in the form of boosters, cosmetics, etc, instead of other players.

Your auction house will never work because DE likes solo and free players.  The time/reward ratio is good because of the focus on solo play.  The community is good because of the kindness to free players.  Your auction house would ruin both.

[TaylorsContraction]

7 hours ago, Momaw said:

This

1. makes it impossible to start trading unless you have platinum already, so have fun dealing with all the people who locked themselves out of trading because they spent their starter platinum on warframe slots
2. increases prices of everything across the board; dealers don't pay regulatory fees, consumers do. Adding 2 plat worth of regulatory fees just means the minimum item price changes from 1-2 plat to 3-4 plat to preserve profit margins for dealers, i.e. literally half the platinum being spent in trading just vanishes into a black hole benefiting nobody.

 

It's interesting how many people complain that it's hard to sell things in trade at a useful price, and think the situation will get easier by adding a zero-friction auction house where suddenly there's a thousand times more people all trying to sell the same things you're already not selling.

What I suggest does not lock out anyone from trading using trade chat.  Yes it will add a small Mark up on things listed in the auction house,  but if you're selling items worth 50 plus platinum,  it's  non issue.  AH take up database space,  without a limiting factor players would be able to list their entire inventories (eventually).

An ah shouldn't be used for everything, as a convenience to trade high commodity items it will work great.  If it's filled with sentinel precept mods and lex prime parts then it will just be clogged with useless data that will rack up unnecessary costs. DE has claimed that riven mod database space is so demanding that we have a limited capacity as well as a plat requirement to increase it. An auction house would be no different and without some common sense restrictions it won't be viable financially for them to implement.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

There are two main reasons your system will never work and why any auction house will never work in warframe.

First, warframe is far too generous.  Warframe is designed so that if a person wants something they can get it through their own work in a reasonable amount of time.  There are exceptions of course but with an auction house the cost of EVERYTHING will crash to less than 10p (including your rivens) because warframe is so generous with it's drop rates.Its pure rng, someone havent managed to get a riven in the past month while other suffocate in them.  This is because DE has maintained that COMPLETELY solo play should be viable way to play their game and I agree with their decision.  If drop rates were lowered to accommodate an auction house the assumption is that you would most of the time get useless things as rewards and you would need to trade most of the time for the things you need.  Without a doubt this would be an inferior way to play warframe. 

Second, if you introduce an auction house the people hurt most are the free players.  One of the reasons warframe is so good is that DE essentially allows free players to trade play time for premium currency.  So rather than DE selling a part directly or letting a third party to illegally sell currency, they allow free players to sell their extra parts for premium currency.  This more or less creates a middle class of players who cannot or will not pay to earn plat.  Trading is an inconvenience.  This inconvenience removes most of all things that drop in warframe from the pool of items that might be traded.  Only those that need or want parts or plat will spend the time trying to trade.  This allows players who want plat to earn plat to earn plat in a reasonable amount of time if they do not want to or cannot buy it directly.  Introducing an auction house would destroy the mechanism by which free players acquire plat because the items they sell are worth less and the paying players can purchase what they want for less Just like now, you could try hard to sell a soma prime set for 240p but people know it worth only 120p and they will try to undermine it.  This means more of the plat from paying players goes into directly to DE in the form of boosters, cosmetics, etc, instead of other players.

Your auction house will never work because DE likes solo and free players.  The time/reward ratio is good because of the focus on solo play.  The community is good because of the kindness to free players.  Your auction house would ruin both.

Why are there soo many people who think it would cause insane inflation when most items ingame already has prices under 10p?

Common mods? Unsellable.

Uncommon mods? Some may sell for 20p. (maxed serration a mush have mod can sell for max 65p)

Rare mods? 40p max.

Relics? Depends of the usefullness and avaibility. (mainly avaibility)

Prime parts? See upper.

Rivens? IF not crit chance, multishot damage crit damage ON a good weapon than good luck.

[Heckzu]

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

This has nothing to do with an auction house

You stated:

7 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You couldnt be scammed anymore

You stated that if an auction house were implemented, scamming would no longer be possible. That is incorrect.

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You can do that here too, just look at people who sell ignis wraith. We have lots of limited items and most people already hold monopoly on certain stuff.

That is not a monopoly. There is no monopoly in Warframe right now; no one owns a majority of the Primed Chambers, and no one owns even close to a majority of any item.

Quote

What is a 'Monopoly'

A monopoly is a market containing a single firm that has or is close to total control of the sector. 

 

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im sorry but these are the same. In the current case you compete with the people in the chat to get the most profit, in an auctiom you compete with the sellers to get the most profit.

First, the scale of the players engaged in trading between the current chat system and in an auction house are completely different. In an auction house system, if you aren't selling for the lowest price, you aren't going to sell. If you list an item that 1000 other players are already listing, you may never manage to sell your item, unless you undercut. An auction house won't allow you to sell items and quicker than you already can.

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Yes people may try but currently when you cant see other peoples offers its much harder to realize you were undercutted or you bought something overpriced.

If you feel that what you're buying isn't worth the price, then don't buy it. If you feel that you got your money's worth, then who else is to tell you otherwise?

Whenever you buy something at a local store, you're buying it at a marked up price. It would be a lot cheaper if you bought from the supplier or producer. Do you complain you can't buy goods at the same price that markets and stores get them for? No, you'll just buy for the price that the store sells for, because to you it's worth the price.

6 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Why are you against it?

I am against it because the results would be detrimental not only to myself, but to many others.

[TaylorsContraction]

11 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

I am against it because the results would be detrimental not only to myself, but to many others.

I understand where you're coming from. I don't want an open AH in warframe either, but I think putting platinum costs for listing items can subvert many of the problems you're listing. So long as the trade-chat form of trading exists along-side it.

Consider for example lex prime parts. Generally people sell the entire set for 20plat (occasionally less but that's beside the point). This means that certain prime parts are so readily available in drop tables, they aren't really worth buying because players can easily acquire these items themselves. If lex prime parts were listed in an auction, they would all be worth 1 plat each due to supply.

But now consider a cost for listing an item on the AH. Let's say hypothetically the cost of listing a prime part blueprint is 5 platinum! That means to list a full set for lex prime would cost 15 platinum. Either the seller chooses to list it with that mark up, resulting in absolutely no one buying it, or they do the smart thing and not list it. Whereas someone wants to list an ember prime set which would be 4 pieces, having a 20 platinum mark up or discount on it, wouldn't matter a whole lot. Players wlll choose to pass on the cost to the buyer or absorb it themselves, and naturally those that absorb the listing cost themselves will sell first.

Let's assume that the cost to list a mod is 2 platinum. That means no one is going to list mods that are worth less than 2 platinum. That's a majority of mods in fact. Aside from some rare stances, corrupted mods and a few others most mods are readily available to players.

Bottom line is, having an Auction House for rare items like vaulted or new prime parts that have value, and riven mods would be good for the game. Players don't have to spam trade chat with their riven mods, and riven mods themselves will stabilize in market value. WIth such a system, people generally would list things that are guaranteed to sell, assuming they get the price right.

 

Now there is a lot that needs to be rehashed with this. Is the listing permanent? Since there is a cost associated with placing a listing, players should be able to edit the listing at no charge. Cancellation policy would be simple. All listings take 24 hours to process. That means a listing will not appear in the auction house until a day after it was made. This period can be shorter but hypotheticall let's say 24 hours. In that 24 hour period players can cancel their listing to get a full refund of their platinum. Once the listing goes live, cancelling a listing would not refund platinum to players, or maybe would refund a fraction of it depending on how long the listing has been up. And so on, I think an auction system that filters out the goods we generally know will drop in value can be good and useful to the game.

 

Now if platinum costs to list in the auction house offend your sensibilities so much that you're still against it. Then alternatively I would not mind an auction house system that allows one to list vaulted prime parts and riven mods. Just those item categories. The value of these items generally doesn't dimishin despite what people may say. Just because there are a million dread mods, doesn't mean they are all good. In fact 90% of them are bad, 8% good, and 2% amazing.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Heckzu said:

You stated that if an auction house were implemented, scamming would no longer be possible. That is incorrect.

What you posted is an entirely different kind of scam. This is like comparing common theft to corruption.

[Heckzu]

10 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

What you posted is an entirely different kind of scam.

 

9 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You couldnt be scammed anymore

You said that an auction house would make it so that you couldn't be scammed anymore.

It doesn't matter if the example I gave is different from what you were envisioning, it is still a type of scam, which proves that your argument was invalid.

14 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

This is like comparing common theft to corruption.

You compared selling in the current trade system to selling in an auction house and said:

8 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im sorry but these are the same.

This is like comparing a murder to a genocide and saying they are the same.

[Fallen_Echo]

14 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

 

You said that an auction house would make it so that you couldn't be scammed anymore.

It doesn't matter if the example I gave is different from what you were envisioning, it is still a type of scam, which proves that your argument was invalid.

You compared selling in the current trade system to selling in an auction house and said:

This is like comparing a murder to a genocide and saying they are the same.

Okay stop butchering up what i wrote, nothing is in contex anymore.

At first i wrote that you couldnt be scammed anymore in item trading not trading for service. Oviously an auction house cant market services.

Look it from the other side.

You couldnt be scammed anymore

Your items now will show their true worth

Due to the upper reason trading becomes faster

When someone gets their hand on something valuable they now can sell it on a "community agreed" price so no one can undercut or overprice items

 

Despite what you have wrote here, our current economy is working just like an auction house its just slower and more prone to violent price changes. A newbie still cant buy their desired fashion frame items if a part of the traders decided that what he sell worth only 50% of what he wants.

For example vaulted items grow in price while avaible to everybody relic items go down fast. I have bought my soma prime last year for 20 plat now its worth 120p, while the valkyr prime set is now only 100p opposing to what was it.

 

I need to ask what exactly you fear could happen?

Worthless items becoming unsellable? check

Semi-rare mods wont sell for more than 60p? check

Some mods and items got skyrocketed prices? check

Second i reacted to your comment

9 hours ago, Heckzu said:

That is incorrect. Players are still vulnerable to being scammed under the guise of purchasing a service, such as paying to get into a clan that has Hema researched.This has nothing to do with an auction house

This is also incorrect. Having full visibility to the supply enables the possibility of monopolization, especially for limited items. It has happened in games with an auction house. One such example is Kamizuma, Tera's wealthiest player who is known for being able to monopolize items.You can do that here too, just look at people who sell ignis wraith. We have lots of limited items and most people already hold monopoly on certain stuff.

In an auction house system, purchasing becomes quicker because all sellers are visible. However, selling in an auction house system become slower, as you are competing with the rest of the player base to sell the same item, whereas currently you're only competing with other people currently using the trade chat.Im sorry but these are the same. In the current case you compete with the people in the chat to get the most profit, in an auctiom you compete with the sellers to get the most profit.

Do you honestly think people won't undercut or overpriced? You are really naive. I have personally seen the desperation of people trying to sell items on an in-game auction house, driving prices down, and I have seen the length to which people will invest in order to make profit by purchasing all instances of an item and reselling it for higher. It happens in reality, and it happens in games. If Warframe gets an auction house, it will not be an exception. Yes people may try but currently when you cant see other peoples offers its much harder to realize you were undercutted or you bought something overpriced.

The only thing that prevents monopolization or massive scale markup is that supply is limited to whoever's on the trade chat and is invisible. An in-game auction house would make the global supply visible and available, which can be exploited.

Atleast make a coherent argument please, i can see when i posted those comments and they are not even in order.

29 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

It doesn't matter if the example I gave is different from what you were envisioning, it is still a type of scam, which proves that your argument was invalid.

You compared selling in the current trade system to selling in an auction house and said:

And yes they are mainly the same only the number of the competitors and the speed of information spread is different.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

5 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Why are there soo many people who think it would cause insane inflation when most items ingame already has prices under 10p?

Because warframe has very generous drops tooled to allow solo players to get whatever they want without ever trading, more of everything than will ever be consumed has already dropped.  An auction house would immediately introduce most of it into the trading system.  Overnight the supply would satisfy and then overshadow demand.

 

[Insane-Mana]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

Because warframe has very generous drops tooled to allow solo players to get whatever they want without ever trading, more of everything than will ever be consumed has already dropped.  An auction house would immediately introduce most of it into the trading system.  Overnight the supply would satisfy and then overshadow demand.

 

You have a good point there. Writing this reminds me of warframe market, which in a way is a AH of sorts and it didn't collapse the trading market.

But still i think the current trade system needs a change. I hope DE comes up with something to add the the already great changes they made.