If you don't know how to do a spy vault, then stay out of it!

[2Peter3Nine]

• 98% of the public SORTIE spy missions i've been in, always have people that don't know what they are doing.
• And they don't know how to DO NOTHING, or STAY OUT of vaults.
•  
• I think SORTIE Spy missions should always be forced solo, that way EVERYONE has to get good at them.
•  
• Today was the public's last straw.
• I will no longer try to help anyone in SORTIE spy missions.
• I am only soloing them from now on, because soloing has a 98% success chance,
• while public matches so far have a 2% success chance..

Edited April 4, 2017 by General_Durandal
added more SORTIE mentions

[Kjahla81]

To be fair the Uranus Spy mission is can be tedious. Mostly because all of the others, with the exception of Lua and Kuva Fortress, are pretty much the same across the Star Chart. 

Honestly I solo all spy missions. Not a perfect solution but one that works.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Kjahla81

[JudgeXion]

When I do spy I try to be first to do them all or if I'm not first to arrive I tend to stand outside with the gear menu open ready to throw down ordis and run in. 

I don't trust people, but I also don't want to do them solo. 

Kuva spy is S#&$ though and I always do them alone because I need to learn them still. 

[(XBOX)ATLongshot]

Aren't you a ray of sunshine. 

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, Raptor1jdan said:

To everyone making snide comments about teaching noobs how to do spy vaults, do you really think that Sorties are the place for them to be learning how to do them? If these players have gotten so far into the game that they are doing Sorties and they still don't know how to do spy vaults then shame on them, and the least they could do is not trip over their own shoelaces and fail the mission for the entire squad...

As much as I hate the phrase, this is one of the few problems where "git gud" is an appropriate answer

Not really.  People that play like that have no incentive to "git gud"  nor are there any repercussions for them sucking at Spy.

Besides, Sortie and Alert Spy missions will grant you what you want, regardless of alarms tripped or 1 failed vault.  They still "win" so there's no point in trying harder.

[Raptor1jdan]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Sortie and Alert Spy missions will grant you what you want, regardless of alarms tripped or 1 failed vault.  They still "win" so there's no point in trying harder.

Sortie Spy missions require all 3 vaults to win?

[MagPrime]

Just now, Raptor1jdan said:

Sortie Spy missions require all 3 vaults to win?

Yes, and?  I tossed in alert vaults as well, that generally only require 2 successful retrievals. 

[Raptor1jdan]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Yes, and?  I tossed in alert vaults as well, that generally only require 2 successful retrievals. 

And you are the only one here talking about alerts, the rest of us are discussing Sorties

[MagPrime]

Just now, Raptor1jdan said:

And you are the only one here talking about alerts, the rest of us are discussing Sorties

And you're missing the point.  Thinking it might be intentional. 

[Alcatraz]

Why don't you join the awesome club with me and do ALL sorties solo? There isn't a sortie I was unable to solo myself. Defense, Survival, Interception, Excavation, Spy, Exterminate, Capture, Rescue, Assassinate. All of them solo. I play and build everything for the strongest builds I can possibly do for each warframe and you know what? They solo everything, and are very good in co-op.

Also what took you so long to realize you should do sortie spy solo?

Edited April 4, 2017 by Alcatraz

[Raptor1jdan]

4 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

And you're missing the point.  Thinking it might be intentional. 

The point, both mine and the OP's, is that people who don't know how to do Spy vaults shouldn't be attempting them during Sorties and causing the mission to fail for everybody

My added point is that Sorties aren't the place for players to be learning how to play the game, they should have already learned by that point or take like 20 minutes to run through low level missions to figure them out

You are the one missing these points

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Raptor1jdan said:

The point, both mine and the OP's, is that people who don't know how to do Spy vaults shouldn't be attempting them during Sorties and causing the mission to fail for everybody

My added point is that Sorties aren't the place for players to be learning how to play the game, they should have already learned by that point or take like 20 minutes to run through low level missions to figure them out

You are the one missing these points

Nah, I'm pointing out that there is no incentive nor repercussion to not learning the vaults.  Which implies that I am understanding, or "getting" the point.  

But, please, by all means, make posts ranting at people that already know better.  Because the people you want to learn how to play Spy's, don't come here and aren't likely to even see this thread if they did.  You'd probably have better results over on Reddit or even Region. 

 

[Lanadra]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Yeah! Don't even try learning spy vaults! Submit to people who have the option to play solo or coordinate groups but choose to play random trough theyr own free will and thus bring this situation among themselfes!

Respect your rude elders you punks! And get off my lawn!!!!

Yet those very same people can also solo so that they can learn the vaults and contribute rather then piss everyone off. Your logic works both ways. There's nothing that says the people who know what to do have to solo, rather then the people who don't know what they're doing.

Oh, and yes, if we're talking sorties, it's especially ridiculous to throw any ''teach them'' lines out there, you don't learn a game mode in sorties, that's not what sortie is for. If you enter a Spy sortie and don't know how to not F*** up a vault, sit at start, say so and most folks will gladly do all the vaults themselves. Because I'd rather do them all myself and we all succeed, then have someone who doesn't know what they're doing ruin it for us all.

I don't even mind carrying three people through a sortie spy, I'd rather do that then have them muck it up and fail the mission. And for the record, I don't solo unless I absolutely have to. This is a multiplayer game after all.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Artorius-Alter

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

12 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

Yet those very same people can also solo so that they can learn the vaults and contribute rather then piss everyone off. Your logic works both ways. There's nothing that says the people who know what to do have to solo, rather then the people who don't know what they're doing.

Oh, and yes, if we're talking sorties, it's especially ridiculous to throw any ''teach them'' lines out there, you don't learn a game mode in sorties, that's not what sortie is for. If you enter a Spy sortie and don't know how to not F*** up a vault, sit at start, say so and most folks will gladly do all the vaults themselves. Because I'd rather do them all myself and we all succeed, then have someone who doesn't know what they're doing ruin it for us all.

I don't even mind carrying three people through a sortie spy, I'd rather do that then have them muck it up and fail the mission. And for the record, I don't solo unless I absolutely have to. This is a multiplayer game after all.

Frickin random pool pal.

 

You sign in for randoms, you get randoms, which are not obliged to be good. Easy as that. They sure as hell don't complain about you, do they?

[Raptor1jdan]

19 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Nah, I'm pointing out that there is no incentive nor repercussion to not learning the vaults.  Which implies that I am understanding, or "getting" the point.  

But, please, by all means, make posts ranting at people that already know better.  Because the people you want to learn how to play Spy's, don't come here and aren't likely to even see this thread if they did.  You'd probably have better results over on Reddit or even Region. 

 

I don't really want anyone to do anything here, I solo spy missions anyways but if more people solo Sorties rather than deal with idiots then they will be forced to learn how to do it if they want to get through the Sorties

The one who's wasting their time here is you, at least I'm saying something but your point boils down to just "meh, it is what it is"

[Raptor1jdan]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Frickin random pool pal.

 

You sign in for randoms, you get randoms, which are not obliged to be good. Easy as that. They sure as hell don't complain about you, do they?

Is it so much to expect players in endgame to have some basic competency?

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Raptor1jdan said:

I don't really want anyone to do anything here, I solo spy missions anyways but if more people solo Sorties rather than deal with idiots then they will be forced to learn how to do it if they want to get through the Sorties

The one who's wasting their time here is you, at least I'm saying something but your point boils down to just "meh, it is what it is"

Your ability to miss my point is amazing.

 

[Raptor1jdan]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Your ability to miss my point is amazing.

 

The problem is you don't have one

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 minutes ago, Raptor1jdan said:

Is it so much to expect players in endgame to have some basic competency?

Sortie is endgame? Since when? Daily loot grab more then anything else really. And it's not even like those kinda complains are reserved to sorties eather. The forum has been full of those when ivara released. It stays as it allways was....problem with randoms? Don't. Join. Random. 

It's not that difficult, is it?

Edited April 4, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Sortie is endgame? Since when? Daily loot grab more then anything else is it. And it's not even like those kinda complains are reserved to sorties eather. The forum has been full of those when ivara released. It stays as it allways was....problem with randoms? Don't. Join. Random. 

It's not that difficult, is it?

Iunno, the existence of this thread, and that it's up to more than half a page, is a pretty good indicator people find it hard.

Personally, I think people should be pushing for better match making options as well as some kind of repercussion for multiple failures.  Other games have it, and it encourages people to actually try to gain the skills.

[Raptor1jdan]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Sortie is endgame? Since when? Daily loot grab more then anything else really. And it's not even like those kinda complains are reserved to sorties eather. The forum has been full of those when ivara released. It stays as it allways was....problem with randoms? Don't. Join. Random. 

It's not that difficult, is it?

Sorties are the highest level content other than pointlessly staying in endless missions for hours, Sorties (and Trials, same enemy levels) are endgame

[2Peter3Nine]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Yeah! Don't even try learning spy vaults! Submit to people who have the option to play solo or coordinate groups but choose to play random trough theyr own free will and thus bring this situation among themselfes!

Respect your rude elders you punks! And get off my lawn!!!!

XD

 

1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

Not really.  People that play like that have no incentive to "git gud"  nor are there any repercussions for them sucking at Spy.

Besides, Sortie and Alert Spy missions will grant you what you want, regardless of alarms tripped or 1 failed vault.  They still "win" so there's no point in trying harder.

Sorties need all 3 datas to win. Losing a single data fails the mission as soon as it's lost.

 

1 hour ago, Alcatraz said:

Why don't you join the awesome club with me and do ALL sorties solo? There isn't a sortie I was unable to solo myself. Defense, Survival, Interception, Excavation, Spy, Exterminate, Capture, Rescue, Assassinate. All of them solo. I play and build everything for the strongest builds I can possibly do for each warframe and you know what? They solo everything, and are very good in co-op.

Also what took you so long to realize you should do sortie spy solo?

I used to solo sorties like you, but then limbo took an update to the rift.

 

1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

Nah, I'm pointing out that there is no incentive nor repercussion to not learning the vaults.  Which implies that I am understanding, or "getting" the point.  

But, please, by all means, make posts ranting at people that already know better.  Because the people you want to learn how to play Spy's, don't come here and aren't likely to even see this thread if they did.  You'd probably have better results over on Reddit or even Region. 

 

You should learn how to play the game outside of the endgame. Only players that know what they are doing should be allowed in endgame.

 

41 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Your ability to miss my point is amazing.

 

Your point is dull, but you managed to dodge all our points, so it's even.

 

38 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Sortie is endgame? Since when? Daily loot grab more then anything else really. And it's not even like those kinda complains are reserved to sorties eather. The forum has been full of those when ivara released. It stays as it allways was....problem with randoms? Don't. Join. Random. 

It's not that difficult, is it?

Yes, sortie is endgame. it's some of the highest level content available.

Sortie 1, level 60 enemies.

Sortie 2, level 80 enemies.

sortie 3, level 100 enemies.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, General_Durandal said:

Sorties need all 3 datas to win. Losing a single data fails the mission as soon as it's lost.

I used to solo sorties like you, but then limbo took an update to the rift.

You should learn how to play the game outside of the endgame. Only players that know what they are doing should be allowed in endgame.

Your point is dull, but you managed to dodge all our points, so it's even.

My point isn't dull, good grief.  I make the attempt to steer the conversation someplace productive by pointing out that players have no reason to improve and you two lose your minds and totally miss my point.

Stop whining about how others play the game.  Stop making a fuss where no one is going to even care.  Provide alternatives to improve your gameplay, make suggestions on how to incentivize better gameplay.

Why is that so hard to get?  

Oh, right, you're too busy being upset that you joined one too many PUG's and it ended badly for you.  Congrats, you're to blame for your own frustrations.

Enjoy drowning in your own angst.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

55 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Iunno, the existence of this thread, and that it's up to more than half a page, is a pretty good indicator people find it hard.

Personally, I think people should be pushing for better match making options as well as some kind of repercussion for multiple failures.  Other games have it, and it encourages people to actually try to gain the skills.

 

Not the worst idea really but i doubt that this would solve anything eather... I mean by what criteria would you sort those? Mr? Probably a indicator for skill but no guarantee (everyone here should know what i'm talking about.)

Choice of frame? Nah. I usually join with whatever i play if it isn't a submerged/generall grineer map (those make switch teleport and invisibility worth it's while)

The only valid qualification kriteria for higher matchmaking tiers would be stretched tutorials and challenges....and then there's still the factor of the present condition of the players, some peak under the pressure of a challenge. Coding those plus the add of matchmaking pools would be a lotta work ya know, just so people who have the choice to group manually don't have to, just to create pools that may play the same....Kinda unsure if the attempt would bear fruit or not.

 

Does it bear fruit, would people be satisfied with just sorties or would the devs and community willingly abandon beginners alltogether?..

Edited April 4, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[MagPrime]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 

Not the worst idea really but i doubt that this would solve anything eather... I mean by what criteria would you sort those? Mr? Probably a indicator for skill but no guarantee (everyone here should know what i'm talking about.)

Choice of frame? Nah. I usually join with whatever i play if it isn't a submerged/generall grineer map (those make switch teleport and invisibility worth it's while)

The only valid qualification kriteria for higher matchmaking tiers would be stretched tutorials and challenges....Coding those plus the add of matchmaking pools would be a lotta work ya know, just so people who have the choice to group manually don't have to...Kinda unsure if the attempt would bear fruit or not.

We just need pretty basic improvements.  At the very least, a segregated recruiting system that allows people to find teams for Sorties without having to fight through Relic spam.  99% of these topics would be resolved if the OP's were able to utilize the LFG function in a better way.

[redeyedtreefrog]

Why is this in PhP? If this thread has to exist^{(it doesn't btw)} at least put it in general discussion.

Look, I've done my fair share of spies, and I've done my fair share of trying to teach stubborn people proper spy ettiquete. But the simple fact is, if you don't want to deal with pugs in spy missions, do them solo. Complaining about it on the forums isn't the way to go.

Also, forcing solo mode for all people for sortie-level spy missions is, quite frankly, a terrible idea. While it's true that you have about a 10% success rate(if that) on a sortie spy run with pugs, it's still possible to get together with a friend or three who know what they're doing and run that way.