No Chroma Rework =( +suggestions included

[Netzwerkfehler]

I really like playing Chroma. I like tanks, dragons and avatars. Unfortunately Chroma isn´t really any of it. I was hoping that we get a rework with the deluxe skin, but we didn´t.

I want to name some points that I don´t like and can be improved. I go through all abilities.

 

Short Version:

Spectral Scream: larger aoe + leave trail on ground (like nezha), scales with primary weapon mods

Elemental Ward: toggle ability, hold for element change, more effects for heat and electro

Vex Armor: toggle ability

Effigy:  a) remove energy cost + augment that lets it follow you

            b) rework: transform into dragon, increased jump height, knockdown on landing, exalted "dragon stuff"

 

Long Version:

Spectral Scream: This ability might be fun if it had a large aoe cone and leave the current element on the ground. E.g. Fire -> sets the ground on fire. The damage is extremely low. It needs stronger cc, better damage, or a debuff. 

 

Elemental Ward: Ice is great, toxin is good, fire is ok, electro is very bad after nerf. U usally build chroma with negative range, but even if you´d do a range build the aura range is too low. Fire and electro need some love. This skill should get the hold to change element mechanic. (like vauban and Ivara) Chroma could adapt to the situation and you do not have to change your design everytime.

 

Vex Armor: This ability is amazing. The only problem is, that it has the same bad mechanic which old bless trin had. In most cases you need to do selfdamage. I think that mechanic is really bad. On low level mission you cannot ramp up your buff, because enemies barely penetrate your shield. In very high level mission you can die from 1 hit. The armor buff applies after the damage is done to you. That means if 1 hit is strong enough to kill you, you will die. You need to survive 1hit. If you do your armor buff is ready to go and you are tanky.

I´d suggest that vex and ward both become toggle abilities. This would remove the self damage problem for the most part. It would also open up chroma for many different builds. You´d no longer need max duration and can focus on other things.

 

Effigy: The main Problem of this ability is it´s energy cost. It costs a whopping 10/s. For comparision World on Fire costs 3/s and Maim costs 3,5/s. Imo both those abilities are way more impactful than effigy. To be honest I do not see the reason why effigy costs energy at all. It already costs 50% armor (after buffs), which is a big deal. It makes sense that it costs armor. You remove you´re dragon skin after all. If the energy per second would be entirely removed the ability would be ok. It would still not really fit into the fast paced playstyle of the game, but it would be decent for defence. Maybe make a augment that lets it follow you around. The cooler thing to do, would be transforming chroma into a real dragon and give him "exalted dragon claws", increased jump height and an aoe knockdown on landing.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Even though toggle for Vex Armor would be very convenient, it would also be dirty OP (yes, more than now, go figure). And I don't want Chroma to get shifted to the very core of the meta, if you catch my drift. I always thought it was balanced that you have those awesome buffs for a while and needing to always getting them back. It adds to the risk and lessens the convenience. Too powerful might mean impending nerf also.

P.S. I never ever do self-damage for Vex. The rule of thumb is that if you don't get damaged enough, then it's not difficult enough to need the buffs.

Edited April 5, 2017 by -N7-Leonhart

[Lanadra]

This is kinda what happens when you look into something more then you should, and discern a pattern in something that really doesn't guarantee anything for the future.

Ergo, just because some frames have gotten a rework when their deluxe skin released, didn't necessarily set the precedent for the future.

And this definitely isn't just something I notice with you, all over the forum people seem to have concluded that deluxe skin or prime releases come with reworks nowadays.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Artorius-Alter

[-N7-Leonhart]

5 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

This is kinda what happens when you look into something more then you should, and discern a pattern in something that really doesn't guarantee anything for the future.

Ergo, just because some frames have gotten a rework when their deluxe skin released, didn't necessarily set the precedent for the future.

And this definitely isn't just something I notice with you, all over the forum people seem to have concluded that deluxe skin or prime releases come with reworks nowadays.

I dislike for things to be very powerful and sandbox mode to use. This also invites for a lot of attention too and once something reaches meta, my interest in it suddenly plummets.... Something that can be used by everyone (and probably a lot) is not appealing at all.

But yeah, a skin appears and boom "Rework!" everywhere. Dudes, this frame has been in the game for like 2 years or more. Only now you notice it?

Edited April 5, 2017 by -N7-Leonhart

[Netzwerkfehler]

14 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

I always thought it was balanced that you have those awesome buffs for a while and needing to always getting them back.

Did you ever play against level 300+ enemies? You cannot get your buffs back unless you do selfdamage. It´s an unhealthy mechanic in my opinion.

Other frames can just refresh their buffs. E.g. Trinity recasts bless + link. Iron Skin can be recast, inaros just refills his scarab armor. Stealth frames just go stealth again.

Chroma can´t do that.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Netzwerkfehler said:

Did you ever play against level 300+ enemies? You cannot get your buffs back unless you do selfdamage. It´s an unhealthy mechanic in my opinion.

Other frames can just refresh their buffs. E.g. Trinity recasts bless + link. Iron Skin can be recast, inaros just refills his scarab armor. Stealth frames just go stealth again.

Chroma can´t do that.

So fighting lvl 300s is not enough damage received for you to get your buffs up or something? I don't really get what situation would that be, other than sitting in the sewer and shooting at a ball of enemies, which I didn't do in years.

[Netzwerkfehler]

4 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

But yeah, a skin appears and boom "Rework!" everywhere. Dudes, this frame has been in the game for like 2 years or more. Only now you notice it?

I loved Chroma since release. This isn´t the first time I proposed some possible changes. His design and abilities are generally good. His mechanics are outdated

[Brachion]

Just now, Netzwerkfehler said:

Did you ever play against level 300+ enemies?

You realize that expecting every Frame to scale indefinitely is kinda silly, right? There's literally no reason to ever fight level 300+ enemies aside from personal challenge, so expecting the game to be designed around that isn't realistic.

[Xekrin]

Yeah, I know it won't matter in the greater scheme of things but I'm not going to bother with deluxe skin until he has more uses than just being an ice tank.  Being able to switch elements in missions and is less dependent on duration which flushes range down the drain making him all but useless as a team player.  Yeah the augment is a semi-decent band-aid but I just can't get into chroma.

I know many already love him and are perfectly fine with Ice being the only good element but whatever.  

[Xion]

So an incoming Deluxe skin means a frame should get a rework? The majority of frames who got a deluxe skin did not get a rework with, or even at around the same time as the skin. The ones who did get a rework (Valkyr, Saryn, and Ash) needed it. Not because the frame was bad, but because DE decided they were bad for the overall community.

Chroma definitely does not need a rework and there are many other frames that do run from buff to buff and some of them still aren't recastable. Yes, Trinity can recast Bless, but she can't recast Link. Rhino can recast Iron Skin, but only with the augment. Mesa can't even recast her Shattershield. Loki and Ash invis aren't recastable. Zephyr Turbulence, Banshee Silence, and Mirage HoM all cannot be recast. 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Xionyde134

[Netzwerkfehler]

Chroma has things to offer to his team. The problem is that ice tank max duration chroma is literally the only build that is strong on chroma. That build doesn´t offer much. It got better with ward augment.

Vex armor augment also has a good augment. You can´t use it though, because you can´t build chroma for range.

Making ward and vex a toggle would make so many more builds possible.

Effigy doesn´t need energy drain, because it comes with its own negative side effects.

 

In my opinion frames that need a very specific build or are modded for only using 1 or 2 abilities of their kit are bad designed. DE made recently showed how it can be done. Nidus and new limbo are designed well. You can make effective builds that make use of all abilities

[Netzwerkfehler]

5 minutes ago, Xionyde134 said:

Chroma definitely does not need a rework and there are many other frames that do run from buff to buff and some of them still aren't recastable. Yes, Trinity can recast Bless, but she can't recast Link. Rhino can recast Iron Skin, but only with the augment. Mesa can't even recast her Shattershield. Loki and Ash invis aren't recastable. Zephyr Turbulence, Banshee Silence, and Mirage HoM + Eclipse all cannot be recast. 

 

Do any of those need a setup like take x amount of damage to shield and health?

No they do not. You can just recast them. Some of them even before they expire

[NightmareT12]

I'll keep it short and on the Effigy one for now because sleeptime, but I really enjoy Effigy concept wise. I don't think a following augment should happen -- it should be on base. And the efficiency should be relooked at, indeed, for it's energy cost is really, REALLY taxing.

I'll take a better look at the Ward one tomorrow. Spectral Scream suggestion is quite on point, I feel.

[Xion]

10 minutes ago, Netzwerkfehler said:

Do any of those need a setup like take x amount of damage to shield and health?

No they do not. You can just recast them. Some of them even before they expire

No, but most of them also don't give more than 1 bonus. Chroma's Ward gives increased tankiness with Ice and Fire and technically more dps with Toxin. The Vex Armor gives an absurd amount of damage and tankiness. The buff that's closest to Vex Armor is Mirage's Eclipse in terms of damage buff and tankiness, but it still has the condition of being governed by light or shadow.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Xionyde134

[(PSN)salovel1991]

5 hours ago, Xionyde134 said:

So an incoming Deluxe skin means a frame should get a rework? The majority of frames who got a deluxe skin did not get a rework with, or even at around the same time as the skin. The ones who did get a rework (Valkyr, Saryn, and Ash) needed it. Not because the frame was bad, but because DE decided they were bad for the overall community.

Chroma definitely does not need a rework and there are many other frames that do run from buff to buff and some of them still aren't recastable. Yes, Trinity can recast Bless, but she can't recast Link. Rhino can recast Iron Skin, but only with the augment. Mesa can't even recast her Shattershield. Loki and Ash invis aren't recastable. Zephyr Turbulence, Banshee Silence, and Mirage HoM all cannot be recast. 

 

I think by recastable they meant ability expires - recast - instant benefits of ability. 

[(PSN)RozGuun]

I had an idea for his Effigy.

The Effigy will gain 7% extra damage(max 70%) per enemy within range. Enemies killed by the Effigy will increase Chroma's damage by 3%(max out at 30%) and heal the Effigy by a quarter of its remaining health. Enemies killed by Chroma will also heal the Effigy by a quarter of its remaining health. All other factors remain in effect.

That was my thought on it.

[Methanoid]

how about making his effigy actually be able to produce extra credits, instead we have a 60% chance to get some credits IF effigy lands a killing blow on an enemy, ive gone whole defence missions in akkad and not gained a single credit from effigy in 25+ waves, making it a near to useless addition.

Why is nekros easily able to gain extra loot drops (but we all know nekros unfortunatly doesnt get extra credits) yet chroma obviously struggles to get even 1 credit drop from multiple waves of defence/interception/etc (and obv no chance on exterminates or other missions where you are always on the move).

Tbh his chance to get extra credits should be like nekros who gains HP from enemys that die from any source in a 10m radius of nekros, chroma's credit chance from effigy should work a similar way, maybe a 60% chance of extra credits dropping for any enemy that dies in a fixed 20m radius of chroma's effigy, the current implimentation is clearly no good.

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

As chroma main he doesn't need a rework trust me, I use Ice but it takes a lot and I MEAN a LOT of specific mods to make him work into an OP monster, Specific corrupted mods 2 prime mods a drift mod all maxed with a maxed zenurik and arcane grace and which other arcane you prefer. Also at lvl 300+ We talking some seriously high levels any frame gets 1 banged xD. HE is one of the few frames that do not need a rework, Zephyr and oberon NEED reworks (Oberon needs to be updated a bit) but zephyr needs a rework ever since tittania came in, and zephyr has 3 abilities that are near obsolete now.

[Buzkyl]

6 minutes ago, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

As chroma main he doesn't need a rework trust me, I use Ice but it takes a lot and I MEAN a LOT of specific mods to make him work into an OP monster, Specific corrupted mods 2 prime mods a drift mod all maxed with a maxed zenurik and arcane grace and which other arcane you prefer. Also at lvl 300+ We talking some seriously high levels any frame gets 1 banged xD. HE is one of the few frames that do not need a rework, Zephyr and oberon NEED reworks (Oberon needs to be updated a bit) but zephyr needs a rework ever since tittania came in, and zephyr has 3 abilities that are near obsolete now.

• Spectral Scream is abysmal
• Elemental Ward Range is far too low to be useful
• Effigy despite the description, does not buff allies
• Poison and Electricity are still alot less useful than Ice or even Fire

 

He needs a form of revision, he is currently a one trick pony.

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

9 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

• Spectral Scream is abysmal
• Elemental Ward Range is far too low to be useful
• Effigy despite the description, does not buff allies
• Poison and Electricity are still alot less useful than Ice or even Fire

 

He needs a form of revision, he is currently a one trick pony.

Well you are aware that chroma got nerfed 1 or 2 times right which made electric obsolete and fire into an HP tank, Also elemental ward is debatable its range isn't bad its just a 1 person skill tbh, and I think we need to be specific to which element and ability we are talking about;

Ice chroma's ward isn't an issue for me, sure my teammates don't get buffed but idc tbh xD, I'm not sure what the other elements give but as far as ice goes it doesn't matter in the cause of elemental ward, But as for yoru point its range is too low to be useful????????? It's useful to teh chroma not anyone else so I don't get your point tbh (I think the range got originally nerfed too)

 

Effigy is kinda wonky that much is true, never read about it buffing allies tho xD

Well spectral scream got nerfed... a lot

Poison was never viable to begin with xD and electricity got nerfed a while back.

 

So My question is, your point? Chroma is doing what he was intended to do by DE.

Edited April 6, 2017 by AlphaTheFinalBalance

[Buzkyl]

12 minutes ago, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

Well you are aware that chroma got nerfed 1 or 2 times right which made electric obsolete and fire into an HP tank, Also elemental ward is debatable its range isn't bad its just a 1 person skill tbh, and I think we need to be specific to which element and ability we are talking about;

Ice chroma's ward isn't an issue for me, sure my teammates don't get buffed but idc tbh xD, I'm not sure what the other elements give but as far as ice goes it doesn't matter in the cause of elemental ward, But as for yoru point its range is too low to be useful????????? It's useful to teh chroma not anyone else so I don't get your point tbh (I think the range got originally nerfed too)

 

Effigy is kinda wonky that much is true, never read about it buffing allies tho xD

Well spectral scream got nerfed... a lot

Poison was never viable to begin with xD and electricity got nerfed a while back.

 

So My question is, your point? Chroma is doing what he was intended to do by DE.

You mean intended to have:

• 2 of his 4 elements be unused because they are outshined by the other 2
• His team aura be completely abandoned and only useful to himself becase of it's short range
• His first skill be completely horrible in both range and damage, bonus negatives in that it slows him to a crawl and has lackluster status chance
• Effigy description reads Chroma turns his pelt into a massive sentry that strengthens nearby allies and engulfs enemies in elemental attacks. Yet it fails to do so.

 

But that's okay because Chroma fulfills his 1 only good role (apart from Meta credit farming) by being a tank? No. That is not okay. His kit is sorrowly lacking and having only 1 good build does not make up for him lacking in other areas.

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

20 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

You mean intended to have:

• 2 of his 4 elements be unused because they are outshined by the other 2
• His team aura be completely abandoned and only useful to himself becase of it's short range
• His first skill be completely horrible in both range and damage, bonus negatives in that it slows him to a crawl and has lackluster status chance
• Effigy description reads Chroma turns his pelt into a massive sentry that strengthens nearby allies and engulfs enemies in elemental attacks. Yet it fails to do so.

 

But that's okay because Chroma fulfills his 1 only good role (apart from Meta credit farming) by being a tank? No. That is not okay. His kit is sorrowly lacking and having only 1 good build does not make up for him lacking in other areas.

So Chroma for almost every patch since release has had a butt ton of changes to him, few of them nerfed electricity

Toxic chroma was never viable because of this :

Update 17.0

• Chroma's green energy perk now gives a buff to holster and reload speed instead of affecting Stamina.

Yeah so lets forgot toxin because that was back when stamina was a thing.

Lightning got nerfed by this :

Update 17.5

• Spectral Scream now drains 3 Energy.
• Elemental Ward’s Electric elemental discharge effect is now affected by range Mods instead of strength Mods.
• Elemental Ward Poison holster and reload speed are now affected by duration Mods instead of strength Mods.
• Fixed Fire Elemental Ward allowing multiple heals each time they enter the aura.

 

Last but not least effigy only has a credit buff, and as stupid as it it is the " Chroma turns his pelt into a massive sentry that strengthens nearby allies" that you speak of.and as  bonus :

Update 18.0

• Removed the Radial Scream from Effigy and reduced its channeling cost in PvP.

So idk about you but the toxic and electricity lost its place when update 17.5 rolled around.

Edited April 6, 2017 by AlphaTheFinalBalance

[Buzkyl]

19 minutes ago, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

-snip-

And none of those actually show that Chroma doesn't need to be revisited. Pretending they don't exist does not excuse the fact that they do and thier current state is poor. You're further emphasizing what i said that currently chroma is a one trick pony. Also the Effigy "nerf" was for conclave only. 

[AlphaTheFinalBalance]

6 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

And none of those actually show that Chroma doesn't need to be revisited. Pretending they don't exist does not excuse the fact that they do and thier current state is poor. You're further emphasizing what i said that currently chroma is a one trick pony. Also the Effigy "nerf" was for conclave only. 

I'm aware of the conclave that was for a fun fact but your points don't empthasize why he needs a rework either.

[Buzkyl]

12 minutes ago, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

I'm aware of the conclave that was for a fun fact but your points don't empthasize why he needs a rework either.

I never said he's skill should be reworked, but he does need a form of revision as parts of his kits are very much lacking interms of utility, damage or both.