Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, VinDanger said:

Passive

any combination of the following: what he has now, but also for sentinels, built in rapid resilience (status effects wear off 75% faster), a flat 25% damage resistance for oberon and all teammates in affinity range, +15 energy for every enemy that gets a radiation proc within 30 meters

Smite

- either remove the "scaling damage" or make it actually do something worthwhile

- make the orbs also knock enemies down in addition to the single target knockdown it has now

- make the orbs always proc puncture and radiation 100% of the time

- make the orbs only seek out targets that don't have a puncture and radiation on them

Hallowed Ground

- make it a circle

- increase radius to 20 meters and make it 2 or 3 meters tall so slight inclines don't block it

Renewal

fine as is

Reckoning

- increase the blind radius to 8 meters from 4

- enemies drop health orbs on hit rather than on death

- increase the armor stripping synergy with hallowed ground to 75% so its easier to mod for and requires less spamming

The Reckoning change to raise the Blind Radius is a common request and would be one we should as a community push for.

Also, regarding your Hallowed Ground change, outside of the synergies it provides with the rest of his kit the ability itself is weak. Low damage, low status chance that scales with str, stationary, and status effect immunity, Nezha's Firewalker does all this and more AND synergizes with his kit. That is why I recommended above that we buff that ability substantially by having it also give total armor % and have enemies that die on it or while Iron Renewal is active give energy back to Oberon. similar to enemies dying in the Rift for Limbo.

[The_Grimmrock]

In order:

smite

Gains full radiation damage, impact is a bad damage type to have on a scaling skill due to how armor works against impact, and armor is ludicrously powerful. projectiles do a flat amount of damage + % <scaling with powerstr> of the initial targets health on every orb, every orb that makes contact is guaranteed to proc rad.

 

Hallowed ground:

Drop the energy cost to 30 bring back the bonus armor % while standing on it. increase its base range to 18. increase the status chance base. it should hit 75% chance at 175% power.

his current reworked kit relies on this ability and its high cost is killing any hope of energy sustain

*alternatively, give minor energy back for kills on enemies in HG for its duration and keep the cost the same.

*I suggested this on Reddit but let me do it here as well:

Visually:: Give it a spawning affect much like frosts 2 where instead of ice, it summons either the new or old grass from earth. we cant see it right now. give it some vertical visual space so we can. this is especially important as we need allies to see where it is, and to be able to see if an enemy is on it now. we currently have an INCREDIBLY hard time seeing what we're doing. this should not be the worlds most difficult change.

 

Renewal:

stated change to make it toggle. no further request < for now> 

 

Reckoning:

increase base range to 18. reckoning should always scale the same as Hallowed ground as they depend on one another now.

Health orb chance on enemies hit.

armor reduction should now match frosts on avalanche, or exceed it, they do the same thing now, but avalanche doesn't need a target on Icy impedance to work.

Oberon should not have to do twice the work or more for the same affect. requiring additional skill to make get the full value of an ability should be fore a massive benefit. 

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Grimmboski
status chance for HG is too low on a 200% powerstr build. it needs something of its own to justify its costs.

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

have them make the armor debuff on reckoning not give diminishing returns!

 

switch its calculation to total armor, not current armor

[The_Grimmrock]

Putting this here as well

Changes Id like to see to push Oberon into "I'm a functioning frame in high level content that doesn't require babysitting please wait! listen! im not lying!"

smite

Gains full radiation damage, impact is a bad damage type to have on a scaling skill due to how armor works against impact, and armor is ludicrously powerful. projectiles do a flat amount of damage + % <scaling with powerstr> of the initial targets health on every orb, every orb that makes contact is guaranteed to proc rad.

 

Hallowed ground:

Drop the energy cost to 30 bring back the bonus armor % while standing on it. increase its base range to 18. increase the status chance base. it should hit 75% chance at 175% power.

his current reworked kit relies on this ability and its high cost is killing any hope of energy sustain

*alternatively, give minor energy back for kills on enemies in HG for its duration and keep the cost the same.

*I suggested this on Reddit but let me do it here as well:

Visually:: Give it a spawning affect much like frosts 2 where instead of ice, it summons either the new or old grass from earth. we cant see it right now. give it some vertical visual space so we can. this is especially important as we need allies to see where it is, and to be able to see if an enemy is on it now. we currently have an INCREDIBLY hard time seeing what we're doing. this should not be the worlds most difficult change.

 

Renewal:

stated change to make it toggle. no further request < for now> 

 

Reckoning:

increase base range to 18. reckoning should always scale the same as Hallowed ground as they depend on one another now.

Health orb chance on enemies hit.

armor reduction should now match frosts on avalanche, or exceed it, they do the same thing now, but avalanche doesn't need a target on Icy impedance to work.

Oberon should not have to do twice the work or more for the same affect. requiring additional skill to make get the full value of an ability should be fore a massive benefit. 

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

9 minutes ago, Phalian said:

But what I am saying is that you shouldn't NEED to have all this energy regeneration to use Oberon. Saryn can pop her own spores, Limbo and Octavia can regen energy passively, Nidus can get energy with his 1, these are warframes which are very combo heavy. They give energy and reward you for using their abilities together, so why not Oberon? I am an Oberon main, heck, he was one of the first Warframes I absolutely loved playing. But energy was not the only problem, I believe that there should be more of a reason to stand on Hallowed Ground other than "I need healing". 

Well not all caster frames have a way to get energy back volt and Ash being two examples. But I will agree, Limbo and Nidus aren't even that power hungry if power hungry at all and they got energy Regen in some form. Heck 2 of Nidus abilities don't even use energy lol. Oberon is different from other frames in that rather then the synergies supplementing your game giving you a slight edge when needed. Oberon absolutely needs those synergies to be viable at all it's not even an option. This forces you to constantly cast multiple abilities to keep those synergies up and that's when that power hunger becomes a problem. Considering they gave energy Regen to frames that didn't really need it honestly should be implemented in some way to help out Oberon who is very power hungry and doesn't even have a high base energy pool. At the very least raise his energy pool. But I think they're saving that for his prime. Bet Oberon prime is gonna have higher base armor and energy probably gonna match volt prime for highest base energy making his prime a must have over the regular just like Volt prime. But I have Zenurik so I'm having a blast lol.

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

please DE change the armor debuff on reckoning to not give diminishing returns

make it calculate off of total armor, not current armor!

[The_Grimmrock]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

have them make the armor debuff on reckoning not give diminishing returns!

 

switch its calculation to total armor, not current armor

how about affecting base armor, which their armor scales off of < if I understand it correctly >

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, (PS4)destroyerchris1 said:

Well not all caster frames have a way to get energy back volt and Ash being two examples. But I will agree, Limbo and Nidus aren't even that power hungry if power hungry at all and they got energy Regen in some form. Heck 2 of Nidus abilities don't even use energy lol. Oberon is different from other frames in that rather then the synergies supplementing your game giving you a slight edge when needed. Oberon absolutely needs those synergies to be viable at all it's not even an option. This forces you to constantly cast multiple abilities to keep those synergies up and that's when that power hunger becomes a problem. Considering they gave energy Regen to frames that didn't really need it honestly should be implemented in some way to help out Oberon who is very power hungry and doesn't even have a high base energy pool. At the very least raise his energy pool. But I think they're saving that for his prime. Bet Oberon prime is gonna have higher base armor and energy probably gonna match volt prime for highest base energy making his prime a must have over the regular just like Volt prime. But I have Zenurik so I'm having a blast lol.

The issue with Oberon's kit is so much of it relies upon Hallowed Ground for synergy and the ability itself is VERY weak by Warframe standards. It needs to be a strong ability on its own in order to Oberon's kit to work.

That is why I suggest that die on HG or while Iron Renewal is active return energy to Oberon and that standing on HG gives you the previous total armor % bonus which would synergize greatly with Iron Renewal's flat armor bonus.

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

Just now, Grimmboski said:

how about affecting base armor, which their armor scales off of < if I understand it correctly >

it would change nothing if it still works the same way, if the mechanics in general are the same. it would still be diminishing returns

[THeMooN85]

I have great solution... REMOVE HIM FROM THE GAME!!! HE WAS AND HE IS STILL USELESS!!!

No? Bad idea? OK.

 

So better now...

MAKE HIM A TANK!!!

The "paladin" who cant protect anything, not even him self... LOL!!!

The "paladin" who cant even kill a single target with his sh%^& skills... LOL!!!

The "paladin" without any auras reflecting dmg, or dealing dmg to near foes... LOL!!!

The "paladin" with shield and sword, who is not tanky at all, and don't have any specific weapon/mod/stance/playstyle/skills/whatever to be a F$%^& PALADIN... LOL!!!

 

REMOVE every single damage dealing skills, replace them with BETTER healing skills, taunt skills, TANK skills, protecting teammates skills... and TADAM!!!! A PALADIN FRAME!

Edited April 28, 2017 by THeMooN85

[The_Grimmrock]

Just now, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

it would change nothing if it still works the same way, if the mechanics in general are the same. it would still be diminishing returns

I have this idea in my head that it would work like shattering blows, but one huge blow. that removes a lot of armor. but again, im probably wrong. 

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

Just now, Grimmboski said:

I have this idea in my head that it would work like shattering blows, but one huge blow. that removes a lot of armor. but again, im probably wrong. 

if they were to just switch it to not be diminishing, it would max at 3 uses to strip at base strength

 

base armor is usually between 600-5 them using percentages in general just scales better into later content when used properly 

[MegpoidBeetle]

Here's some of my suggestions pre-hotfix, they listened us on giving Smite base damage combined with percentage of enemies' health.

Spoiler

19 hours ago, GiraffaYandereBeetle said:

Well, my 5-formaed most beloved frame finally got the "rework" that he deserves.....or is it really a rework? Let's have a quick go-through with each of the reworked abilities.

1. Smite - Ok, I need to know the mathematician who was the genius that thought it'd be a good idea that the orb's damage scale off enemies health ONLY as well as being SPLIT individually among each orbs. There's no flat damage, the orb's damage scales off a fixed value of 20%. Previously you can cast Smite into a group of low level mooks and the orbs can take care of the lesser mooks around the target, as the orbs have their own damage values that are affected by power strength. Now, you caused the orbs to only inflict damage based on initial target's health only, what will you get?

That's right, it can't even kill a single Level 1 Butcher. LEVEL. 1. BUTCHER. (Unless of course, you cast it on a target with a higher health than the lesser mooks). Point being, this is an elemental first ability, along with Fireball, Shock, Freeze and Spore. Taking out small fry should NOT be a problem, but now it is. Prior to the rework you can cast Smite and the orb can potentially kill lower-level enemies, but now it doesn't. So from my understanding the math behind the damage of the orbs are basically:

Initial target health x 0.2 / Number of orbs= Orb damage,  

Instead, combine it with the previous version of Smite (Level 3 Smite will be used in the calculation)

(150 x Power Strength)+(Initial target health x 0.2 / Number of orbs) = Orb damage

NOW it seems more capable of doing some damage.

 

2. Hallowed Ground - What's up with the effects? I could've sworn @[DE]Rebecca said in Prime Time the effects weren't finalized, so I had the idea it'll look better than that, maybe something like holy gas like thingies emanating from the ground, kinda like using Tranquil Walk of Peace in Dark Souls. And from what I noticed, it no longer gives that percentage armor buff. Tested this with a level 50 butcher and it dealt the same amount of damage in or out of Hallowed Ground. May I ask why? Sure, Iron Renewal gives flat armor buff and that's soooo much better than Hallowed Ground's armor buff, but why couldn't you let these two stack? I'll discuss more on its improvement when I comment on Renewal. For this ability on its own, personally it should've been turned into a mobile ability, since it kinda makes sense from some perspective as to why Eximus units have their damaging aura.

 

3. Renewal - Oh boy, this is possibly the worst contender on the list. To sum it up, its range hit a ridiculously hard nerf. It's no longer infinite range, and the devs essentially turned this into a lower-tier Blessing. The infinite range was one of the redeeming qualities of old Renewal. It might seem like a small deal to some players, but for me, it's kind of a big deal. I'm sort of a team player. Every time I play as Oberon I will fill out every possible role (damage, CC, tank, healing, support, utility), and so keeping my teammates health in check is quite a priority. If my teammates are near-death or are running out of time on their bleedout timer, Renewal's infinite range could save them just in the nick of time, especially when it extends bleedout timer. 

Initially I thought the range on the ability meant that its wave will extend infinitely from that range, but after testing it, I found that to not be the case. Seems that the range given is the most it will travel. Thanks to @LunarEdge7 for testing this with me. My suggestion for Renewal is to return to its old travelling orb animation. Instead of being absorbed by the player, it will detect if the player is in range and then "detonate", starting the healing process right away.

Also, stripping Hallowed Ground's armor buff just so these two ability can synergize was downright a terrible idea, as I've stated, why not just let it stack? How bout let the old armor buff stay alongside Iron Renewal and let it go:

Currently: 

Total armor = (Base armor x Steel Fiber) + Iron Renewal

New:

If only Hallowed Ground is used: Total armor = [(Base armor x Steel Fiber)] x Hallowed Ground x Power Strength

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground: Total armor = [(Base armor + Iron Renewal) x Steel Fiber ] x Hallowed Ground x Power Strength

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground but Hallowed Ground expires: Total armor = (Base armor + Iron Renewal) x Steel Fiber

This would encourage player more to use Iron Renewal more often. Let's say we are to use Oberon's armor in this calculation.(150 armor, rank 9 Transient Fortitude, rank 10 Steel Fiber):

If only Hallowed Ground is used: Total armor = 150 x [1 + 1.3 + (0.2 x 1.5)] = 360

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground (Apply Iron Renewal 300 flat armor buff): Total armor = 450 x [1 + 1.3 + (0.2 x 1.5)] = 1080

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground but Hallowed Ground expires: Total armor = 450 x [1 + 1.3] = 1035

For squishy frames if they have like 15 armor (assuming they don't use Steel Fiber):

If only Hallowed Ground is used: Total armor = 15 x [1 + (0.2 x 1.5)] = 19.5

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground (Apply Iron Renewal 300 flat armor buff): Total armor = 315 x [1 + (0.2 x 1.5)] = 409.5

If Renewal is used inside of Hallowed Ground but Hallowed Ground expires: Total armor = 315

 Definitely helps squishier frame to last longer as well as turn Oberon into a potential tank. Math checks out! But my calculation may be wrong. Also it'd be a good idea to buff Iron Renewal's base duration.

 

4. Reckoning - This ability is still pretty fine, doesn't seem like there's any nerf done to it. I don't think the blind is there anymore, but it doesn't matter since it's barely of any help. The Reckoning buff is a welcome addition. The armor stripping is okay I guess, however it's not a better alternative to just using a weapon with high Corrosive damage and status chance considering the enemies need to be within Hallowed Ground as well as multiple casts for complete armor removal, so 95% of the time it won't be worth it.

The health orb should not drop not from a Reckoning kill, but from killing an enemy within the irradiated duration after being hit by Reckoning.

 

Passive - After being stuck with that annoying turning wildlife to your side for a limited amount of time, I'LL TAKE ANYTHING OVER THAT. Is this passive good? Not for sentinel users. But it sure as heck is better than the previous one.

Also, if the devs are to make his ability synergize, the least they could do is buff some of the base stats. If you're gonna be having us casting abilities constantly for the synergy to kick in, buff the base energy pool and also his base armor too, unless you guys are saving it for the Prime version ;) which I hope is the next one.

 

Tl;dr to sum up how the rework is

+ Faster casting animation for Renewal

+ Wider range for Hallowed Ground as well as higher DoT with chance to proc

+ Better passive

+ Reckoning deals more damage to radiated enemies and can remove enemy armor within Hallowed Ground

- Base stats are still poor

- Smite's orb is ridiculously weaker and it seems situational when it comes to killing enemies

- Hallowed Ground's armor buff is removed

- Renewal is no longer infinite range, so if you're more than 40m away from me and you go down, don't expect Renewal to extend your timer in time.

- Iron Renewal base duration is low (20 seconds? C'mon I have to use two abilities to get that mediocre flat armor buff, at least give us 30-40 seconds)

- Need max power strength and multiple casts of Reckoning to completely strip away enemy armor

 

As an avid Oberon player for more than 2 years, I say he still needs more attention and a lil adjustments here and there. You can do better than that, devs.

 

Hallowed Ground and Renewal is still in a bad shape. I rather them just return us the old infinite range Renewal that will chase down allies till the end of time rather than the limited range that we currently have to stick to, because I like my teammates with recovered health ;)

[Lockhart77]

22 minutes ago, Grimmboski said:

In order:

smite

Gains full radiation damage, impact is a bad damage type to have on a scaling skill due to how armor works against impact, and armor is ludicrously powerful. projectiles do a flat amount of damage + % <scaling with powerstr> of the initial targets health on every orb, every orb that makes contact is guaranteed to proc rad.

 

 

Impact? But smite does puncture, and puncture proc causes enemy to do 30% less damage.

[The_Grimmrock]

Just now, Lockhart77 said:

Impact? But smite does puncture, and puncture proc causes enemy to do 30% less damage.

Im under the impression that the initial blast does impact, and that the orbs that pop out are puncture, if this is not the case, Id still say drop puncture damage, do 100% rad, and apply weaken.

[Lockhart77]

1 minute ago, Grimmboski said:

Im under the impression that the initial blast does impact, and that the orbs that pop out are puncture, if this is not the case, Id still say drop puncture damage, do 100% rad, and apply weaken.

Initial blast doesn't do impact, its just how the power works. And puncture procs are useful, also, it applies weaken so what's wrong with having it for utility? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Puncture_Damage

[The_Grimmrock]

1 minute ago, Lockhart77 said:

Initial blast doesn't do impact, its just how the power works. And puncture procs are useful, also, it applies weaken so what's wrong with having it for utility? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Puncture_Damage

because puncture is heavily resisted by armor, whereas radiation isn't heavily reduced by anything beyond factions, and even excels against certain units, I dont see the issue with removing the puncture if its effect is still applied.

[Leqesai]

Just jumping in here to say that Renewal, as it currently is, works great. The armor bonus and toggle functionality are extremely useful if you build specifically around it and hallowed eruption.

 

I think its so good, actually, that it completely negates the usefulness of his other abilities. You could build for reckoning but not really for smite. Smite is just a completely 'meh' ability. Its his 1 so sure I can see why it might be. But there are plenty of frames where all abilities are useful. (though there are a majority of frames with generally useless abilities... so I guess smite being 'meh' fits the majority).

 

Renewal+Hallowed is such an effective combo that Oberon truly does feel like a Paladin empowering his team. Kudos to whoever finally landed on the toggle change. It was exactly what the power needed.

[Leonix13]

What we need to do is strip out all the bloat from his spells...

 

Smite needs to lose the Orbs as they are taking away from the pure damage that should come from a spell called "Smite"

Hallowed Ground needs to have some good range, lose the damage, put back the armour buff, and have it proc puncture status. That way you get some defense vs ranged and greater defense vs melee that try to get you while you're on it.

Renewal needs to go back to Orbs, get rid of the status clearing at full health, and still let it heal when the target is full... Also make Phoenix Renewal's cooldown scale inversely with duration just like Renewal does.

Reckoning I think should change from a rise and slam to a pull in and throw out. Use the ragdoll effect do damage with some bonuses.

 

keep it focused, ditch the synergy, and let each spell work the way it should without clutter.

[October0Night]

Well his one for sure needs to do way more damage it faili g to one shot a level 1 normal heavy gunner at 350% power is just sad embers 1 can one shot a level 1 heavy gunner with a lot less power.  However if they wont it to be more CC then damage dealing they can leave the damage where it is and give it a lot more base range then what it has so it can be effectively use for CC.

His 2 I needs to be a little more usefully should cause enemies to slow down while talking on it or something just need utility that can do something a little more worth.

His 3 needs to have unlimited range if you want it to have a chance of competing against a frame like trinity that can heal give damage immunity and plus bring an additional ablity that gives energy. 

His 4 should cause the enemies to become dazed or something after being slammed into the ground cause them to lay there for some time be for getting back up.

Edited April 28, 2017 by October0Night

[Leonix13]

Just now, Leqesai said:

Just jumping in here to say that Renewal, as it currently is, works great. The armor bonus and toggle functionality are extremely useful if you build specifically around it and hallowed eruption.

 

I think its so good, actually, that it completely negates the usefulness of his other abilities. You could build for reckoning but not really for smite. Smite is just a completely 'meh' ability. Its his 1 so sure I can see why it might be. But there are plenty of frames where all abilities are useful. (though there are a majority of frames with generally useless abilities... so I guess smite being 'meh' fits the majority).

 

Renewal+Hallowed is such an effective combo that Oberon truly does feel like a Paladin empowering his team. Kudos to whoever finally landed on the toggle change. It was exactly what the power needed.

The problem is that combo is just ok, where as other frames can do way more, for way less energy and effort.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Oberon passive is just fine and is better than making enemy pets allied targets. Can't call Oberon passive a joke just because no one bring pets to raids. That by itself makes no sense. 

[Leqesai]

You're saying that the renewal+hallowed combo uses too much energy?

 

You need to build your Oberon specifically around this combo. It costs nothing to cast or maintain if you build effectively. The boost it gives is absolutely fantastic. You get way more health than Nidus with his ultra cool flower field and have zero zone restrictions on it. You also get a good 400 armor to all your buddies. This is really nice in supporting the squishier frames.

Toss on the Renewal augment, as well, and you've got yourself an absolute BEAST of a team-support thing going on. with 200% power strength your team gets an instant revive every 90s in addition to 80 health/s and 400 armor.

Maintaining the energy drain on this is mind-numbingly easy.

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

18 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

The issue with Oberon's kit is so much of it relies upon Hallowed Ground for synergy and the ability itself is VERY weak by Warframe standards. It needs to be a strong ability on its own in order to Oberon's kit to work.

That is why I suggest that die on HG or while Iron Renewal is active return energy to Oberon and that standing on HG gives you the previous total armor % bonus which would synergize greatly with Iron Renewal's flat armor bonus.

While Oberon is much more viable now I'll agree that his Pinnacle ability being HG that brings his kit together is lackluster. The bare ability alone without synergies does negligible damage, gives status immunity which has niche uses, and has radiation proc CHANCE not even guranteed. Compare that to other synergy reliant frames like Nidus. His main ability being Virulence. Or Octavia and her Mallet which are very strong abilities on their own and offer a great deal more. But I don't think his HG will ever fundamentally change. I'm not expecting it to at least. DE seems pretty firm on keeping his kit relatively the same with tweaks. That said a simple tweak they could do to help his energy cost a bit is give enemies killed within HG's effected radius from any source of damage a 50% chance of dropping an energy orb. This would work a lot like reckonings 50% health orb chance on kills. You could probly lower it's chance to like 35% or so since it'll be any source of damage used to kill enemies within your HG radius but it's something and matches what he has. Not to mention it further encourages teammates to stick around the hallowed ground as they could cash in on those energy orbs from killing enemies on your HG and help themselves this would inadvertently make it easier to apply iron renewal on your teammates as well since they'd be attracted to your HG knowing the energy benefits.

[The_Grimmrock]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

You're saying that the renewal+hallowed combo uses too much energy?

 

You need to build your Oberon specifically around this combo. It costs nothing to cast or maintain if you build effectively. The boost it gives is absolutely fantastic. You get way more health than Nidus with his ultra cool flower field and have zero zone restrictions on it. You also get a good 400 armor to all your buddies. This is really nice in supporting the squishier frames.

Toss on the Renewal augment, as well, and you've got yourself an absolute BEAST of a team-support thing going on. with 200% power strength your team gets an instant revive every 90s in addition to 80 health/s and 400 armor.

Maintaining the energy drain on this is mind-numbingly easy.

this is only cosidering part of the combo though, because im thinking HG, renewal AND reckoning

because in tight moments you're going to have to expend all of that.

remember that frosts icy wave impedance and 2 basically does what HG does in mitigation at about 30% less cost and is guaranteed CC. I use the frost comparison because of the range and arc similarities

Edited April 28, 2017 by Grimmboski
frost mention*