Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[-Onyx-Phalian]

9 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

The thing we all agree on is that Reckoning should be more consistent in producing health orbs.

 

EDIT: Making Reckoning cause enemies to drop health orbs that die within X seconds of being hit by it instead of it requiring the kill, it would make the ability more consistent and would open up build paths for Oberon. It would be a small change that would help in a big way.

I would admit, I am a fan of consistency. It would allow Duration to be more noticeable as that can affect your window of opportunity. It would also allow "Health Conversion" to be much more viable as many have already moved to an Efficiency+Rage Oberon for infinite Iron Renewal armor. 

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, Chipputer said:

This change has been pushed by people, consistently, for ages now and all of them are people who do nothing but spam Reckoning.

u wut?

spamming Reckoning is literally the way to create Health Orbs as Reckoning - it's the Players that aren't trying to spam it constantly that are the ones that won't ever see any Health Orbs.

if Reckoning has a Health Orb feature, then it should actually be able to create Health Orbs in some way that works within the operating Level Ranges of the game. buuut it doesn't work past like Lv30 Enemies, which is pretty sad.
Health Orbs are useful for more than just Healing, and the argument "well anything that isn't Trinity is garbage anyways" is stupid

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Chipputer said:

 

 

I made a typo in the OP and changed it just for you.

 

3 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Doesn't matter. It doesn't need to be changed.

The reason given is flimsy, at best, as well. Only bad Oberon players are running low on energy, constantly, to begin with. Health orbs are also terrible for healing purposes at the point they start to matter.

This change has been pushed by people, consistently, for ages now and all of them are people who do nothing but spam Reckoning.

Why doesn't it need to be changed?

Let me give you a better reason:

The strength of Oberon now lies in his ability to chain combos, so you cast his Hallowed Ground, 50 energy. You then use Reckoning (100) to CC the enemies around you and strip them of armor while providing you cover so that you can cast his Renewal (25) safely on his Hallowed Ground and gain the synergy effect from that, Iron Renewal. While you are being healed, you are draining energy at a rate of 2 per second at base and 5 per second per ally. If you need to more? You don't get to move the Hallowed Ground, you recast it for another 50 energy. Etc....

Oberon is heavily reliant on using a stationary, high cost ability in order for his kit to work. He also lacks the durability to truly benefit from Rage in lategame scenarios to sustain his energy pool so that he can not only use the combos in his kit (Hallowed Ground followed by Reckoning then Renewal alone costs 175 energy before efficiency mods) but to upkeep the steep energy drain cost required to heal himself and allies (2e/s himself, 5e/s per ally), completely ignoring the fact he has only 100 base energy. Only true tanks like Chroma, Wukong, Inaros, Nidus, etc... really can consistently benefit from Rage in late game content.

Not only that, but he needs range so that his synergies work consistently, strength and duration so that his synergies are strong and last a decent amount of time, and efficiency because he has no way of gaining or reducing energy costs in his kit. Where do we fit survivability mods, rage, and the required Natural Talent due to his absurdly long cast time on Reckoning?

His kit relies *heavily* on the synergies within it in order to work, and Zenurik doesn't work while channeling Renewal, which is a very important part of his kit.

This all is WHY he needs health orb generation so that he works with Equilibrium, or energy regen and/or cost reduction built into his kit. He is extremely reliant on comboing his abilities together to make them work, similar to Limbo and Nidus who also have similar mechanics built into their kits.

[Music4Therapy]

5 minutes ago, Phalian said:

I would admit, I am a fan of consistency. It would allow Duration to be more noticeable as that can affect your window of opportunity. It would also allow "Health Conversion" to be much more viable as many have already moved to an Efficiency+Rage Oberon for infinite Iron Renewal armor. 

Give my other thread support on it, trying to make it gain a lot of traction

[-Onyx-Phalian]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

Give my other thread support on it, trying to make it gain a lot of traction

You may just want to put it in here. This thread already has the traction and already has enough views and pages to grab DE's attention. 

[Music4Therapy]

It's basically just saying how beneficial making Reckoning have a chance to produce health orbs from enemies that die after being hit by it rather than killed by it would be a small change but help in a big way.

[LykanBlood]

personally i think he needs a buff to his energy pool now cause there is so much energy usage required by him now

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, LykanBlood said:

personally i think he needs a buff to his energy pool now cause there is so much energy usage required by him now

Which is why I'm pushing for either Hallowed Ground giving him energy or cost reduction in some way or his Reckoning being more consistent at producing health orbs so that equilibrium is viable. 

[-Onyx-Phalian]

In addition to the above idea for Reckoning, what about allowing Range mods to affect the angle AND radius of Hallowed Ground? It would allow more ground covered so it can match up with Reckoning. 

[chainchompguy3]

46 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

I made a typo in the OP and changed it just for you.

 

Why doesn't it need to be changed?

Let me give you a better reason:

The strength of Oberon now lies in his ability to chain combos, so you cast his Hallowed Ground, 50 energy. You then use Reckoning (100) to CC the enemies around you and strip them of armor while providing you cover so that you can cast his Renewal (25) safely on his Hallowed Ground and gain the synergy effect from that, Iron Renewal. While you are being healed, you are draining energy at a rate of 2 per second at base and 5 per second per ally. If you need to more? You don't get to move the Hallowed Ground, you recast it for another 50 energy. Etc....

Oberon is heavily reliant on using a stationary, high cost ability in order for his kit to work. He also lacks the durability to truly benefit from Rage in lategame scenarios to sustain his energy pool so that he can not only use the combos in his kit (Hallowed Ground followed by Reckoning then Renewal alone costs 175 energy before efficiency mods) but to upkeep the steep energy drain cost required to heal himself and allies (2e/s himself, 5e/s per ally), completely ignoring the fact he has only 100 base energy. Only true tanks like Chroma, Wukong, Inaros, Nidus, etc... really can consistently benefit from Rage in late game content.

Not only that, but he needs range so that his synergies work consistently, strength and duration so that his synergies are strong and last a decent amount of time, and efficiency because he has no way of gaining or reducing energy costs in his kit. Where do we fit survivability mods, rage, and the required Natural Talent due to his absurdly long cast time on Reckoning?

His kit relies *heavily* on the synergies within it in order to work, and Zenurik doesn't work while channeling Renewal, which is a very important part of his kit.

This all is WHY he needs health orb generation so that he works with Equilibrium, or energy regen and/or cost reduction built into his kit. He is extremely reliant on comboing his abilities together to make them work, similar to Limbo and Nidus who also have similar mechanics built into their kits.

Perhaps you should edit that into the OP, just so newcomers to this thread don't start back at square 1.

 

and yeah, it's been a mini-outrage that Oberon "Is now an energy hog; a combo-caster without reliable means of regening energy".

See thread (Was locked because people weren't civil.)

 

I'd almost be welcome to this particular change, seeing as how

A: the only other frames that can reliably run mods like Health conversion and Equilibrium are Nekros and Well-of-life trinity.

B: It adds in a sprinkle more healing to his kit, so that he isn't just "A caster with a heal for a 3"

C: I personally love ability spam, and thus tend to support anything that would further that personal cause

 

But the biggest problem I see with it is that in order to use Equilibrium to gain energy, one's health must take damage so as to pick up the health orb.

This essentially brings it all back to the issue that Rage supposedly isn't viable for Oberon late-game.

Unless you can specifically make sure you get slash-proc-ed a ton, and NOT use your Proc-cleanser, NOR use your heal ability before you've picked up health orbs, then we are right back to square 1.

 

Also, title is very presumptuous, quite misleading as to your intentions (it implies you want to suggest something that the rework forgot that the community demanded), and downright wrong. Please change it while you're editing in that bit about Rage not being viable on Oberon.

Edited April 29, 2017 by chainchompguy3
I don't have spellcheck

[Music4Therapy]

11 minutes ago, chainchompguy3 said:

Perhaps you should edit that into the OP, just so newcomers to this thread don't start back at square 1.

 

and yeah, it's been a mini-outrage that Oberon "Is now an energy hog; a combo-caster without reliable means of regening energy".

See thread (Was locked because people weren't civil.)

 

I'd almost be welcome to this particular change, seeing as how

A: the only other frames that can reliably run mods like Health conversion and Equilibrium are Nekros and Well-of-life trinity.

B: It adds in a sprinkle more healing to his kit, so that he isn't just "A caster with a heal for a 3"

C: I personally love ability spam, and thus tend to support anything that would further that personal cause

 

But the biggest problem I see with it is that in order to use Equilibrium to gain energy, one's health must take damage so as to pick up the health orb.

This essentially brings it all back to the issue that Rage supposedly isn't viable for Oberon late-game.

Unless you can specifically make sure you get slash-proc-ed a ton, and NOT use your Proc-cleanser, NOR use your heal ability before you've picked up health orbs, then we are right back to square 1.

 

Also, title is very presumptuous, quite misleading as to your intentions (it implies you want to suggest something that the rework forgot that the community demanded), and downright wrong. Please change it while you're editing in that bit about Rage not being viable on Oberon.

Done and done. Like the changes?

[chainchompguy3]

18 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Done and done. Like the changes?

Yes, quite.

 

...Though it does make the very first comment seem kind of out of place; a bit hilarious, even.

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, chainchompguy3 said:

Yes, quite.

 

...Though it does make the very first comment seem kind of out of place; a bit hilarious, even.

I was thinking the same thing. Wish there was some way to place a disclaimer on his post without adding to the wall of text.

I've noticed that generally speaking, the most well received opinions in this community are the ones that are short and straight to the point.

[-Onyx-Phalian]

At least a couple of the large Warframe content creators are on our side. 

Tactical Potato mentioned the range intensities (why does Reckoning have nearly twice the range of Hallowed Ground?) and energy problems

QuietShy is giving a subtle hint that we're not exactly happy about the changes. 

[Music4Therapy]

I understand why they want to let the changes sit. Many changes were made and they want to see what we do about it and are able to accomplish.

The issue is that this is such a massive hole. His kit has a massive energy gate attached to it and he has no way of overcoming it without being forced to use Rage which not only isn't viable late game but isn't ideal considering he need Duration, Strength, Range, AND Efficiency. There is no dump stat. He also has long cast times. Where do we fit Natural Talent, Rage, Primed Flow, let alone any survivability mods?

 

Add energy production to his kit and that will go a very long way.

[-Defeater-]

also cool that they didnt talk about it whatsoever in the dev stream. guess we can just go back to ignoring oberon.

[Sador1978]

While it generally is true, that people who get a little bit of what they asked for will attempt to badger, belittle and moan about it until they get more, that was a joke in poor taste.

[Music4Therapy]

Reckoning now encourages itself to be spammed. It synergizes with itself by causing it to deal increased damage to radiated targets, its CC is only a knockdown, its armor stripping requires that you use it many times in a row to completely strip a target of armor, and you must land the kill with it in order for the health orb mechanic to work. DE wants us to lay down the magic carpet, press 3, then spam 4... an ability which costs 100 power to use and isn't necessarily powerful late game as far as damage is concerned.

I don't know what else to say here aside from we have a kit that is heavily gated by energy costs and no means of producing energy ourselves. His kit wants us to kill everything around him with Reckoning so that he can strip people of armor and get health orbs, but at the same time the ability that is supposed to land the killing blows isn't the one that got the scaling damage: His smite did, and it scales in REVERSE! The more pwr str you have, the more parts it splits into. You essentially have to gimp your strength in order to benefit the most from Smite, and its not even the ability that you want to kill with in the first place!

They need to give him a means of producing energy, they need to remove the need to endlessly spam his 4 ability for his kit to work, and maybe looking at the absurd 5 e/s for each ally being healed would be another great place to take a look at because right now his whole kit falls apart if he doesn't have Rage and is actively being shot in the face.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

Actually Reckoning has always had an increased chance to drop health orbs for enemies killed by it.

To me the perfect Reckoning is the blind & knockdown when enemies get slammed, as well as a chance of health orbs on hit instead of kill because Reckoning may not kill enemies and a chance at radiation procs. Of course I'd say like 25% chance, anything more would be OP, anything less and we'd continue the chain of bullS#&$ RNG in this game.

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

His kit wants us to kill everything around him with Reckoning

That's far from true and not even the most efficient way when there's 3 other abilities and weapons to choose from/ letting enemies kill each other because of the radiation procs. People who think like that tend to miss the bigger picture of a frames true role

Edited April 29, 2017 by 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4

[(PSN)AtomicEyekon]

Hello everyone and I'm back to propose again the idea of voting in Warframe is the way to go and should have been in place since the very beginning a system very similar to Darvo's fire Deal which previously was totally legit sale DE Ask of our opinion and we simply   vote. The OBERON rework debacle it's just the icing on the cake there have been many problems  before this that could have been avoided. if simply they ask the player base hey what do you think? do you like this idea?

Not to say that Warframe is in a bad place but we all wanted to be in a better place we should all strive for it to be a Utopia everyone being informed  prior to release, understanding, the masses agree , happy

[Music4Therapy]

3 minutes ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

 

That's far from true and not even the most efficient way when there's 3 other abilities and weapons to choose from/ letting enemies kill each other because of the radiation procs. People who think like that tend to miss the bigger picture of a frames true role

Bullcrap. Why else would health orbs drop from enemies killed by Reckoning? Why else would it deal increased damage to radiated targets? Why else would it require you to repeatedly spam it in order to actually strip a target of armor?

Its poorly designed. The armor strip should have been on his Smite, the scaling damage should have been on his Reckoning, and instead of being forced to land killing blows with Reckoning to get the orb it should be enemies that get hit by it have an increased chance to drop health orbs when they die.

 

EDIT: That said, I never use Reckoning to kill. I use it for the CC to provide me cover in between changing rooms, setting up combos, and grabbing life support. The point is that its designed to be a kill move as evidenced by its on-kill and armor stripping mechanics.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Darkvramp]

First off all of his abilities need a base increase in range, the ranges he has are some of the smallest in game.

Second off reckoning is a bad ultimate. REPLACE IT!!!

Compared to other nukes, and other 4th abilities, its just a steamy pile of skjdfhkahskdhfkhaskhdj.

Thirdly if you are gonna keep it, for hell incarnate sake, make your choice, is it a nuke, or a cc ability, it cant be both without being overpowered or under-powered, very little middle ground apparently.

lastly the health drop on kill or whatever should be moved to renewal, as the wave passes  over enemies it makes them have a chance to drop health/energy/affinity orbs.

 

[(PSN)AtomicEyekon]

The most recent situation with oberon's rework just icing on the cake. There have been other situations in the past I could have been prevented if only DE  ask the player base how do you feel about this? Do you have any suggestions? Do you like this?  

Voting in Warframe I feel is a must for it to grow properly to its fullest potential for both the Developers and the player count. There has been  numerous times that communication is the problem between the Developers and the player base this is one of the easiest and fastest ways to hopefully solve this problem. Voting in Warframe on the New's and not Warframe Forums is the way to go.

[blazeshadow44]

4 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Something needs to be done about his energy. Rage shouldn't be a required mod on him, he already has too many stats he needs and many of us run with Natural Talent.

I propose abilities either costing less on Hallowed Ground or all kills made while you are on Hallowed Ground refund energy.

I would still use rage on him. i go all out melee with him.... nice berserker with that healing ability.  

[(PSN)Oreic-Reynier]

Yeah, Ive always found it weird there is no polling options on this site.