Is Ash good at all?

[mosaickle]

On paper he seems incredibly mediocre...

 

[TheGrimCorsair]

He's good at sneaking around, teleporting, and killing a lot or targets while you make yourself a sandwich. Especially good at diving groups of enemies to excise the biggest threats quickly and then getting away without getting killed. Pretty good at picking up downed tenno who're still trying to come to grips with concept of being able to move and shoot. The fact that the damage of his 4 is both finisher damage and influenced by his melee combo counter (which he's excellent at build on account of being invisible most of the time and not really at too great a risk in melee) keeps that particular skill relevant for, practically, ever (unless 8 hour survival missions are your thing, I guess?).

Not so great for CC, support, or healing, though. Actually, he's pretty abysmal for both. His 2 provides only a small amount of utility in that aspect, even if modded, as does his 1, when augmented to shred armor. Overall if you're interested in killing things while invisible and laying out bleed procs, then Ash is great. If you're not interested in doing that, well, yeah, look elsewhere.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Hes been nerfed recently but it still a good frame. His 1st can remove armor with its augment, he can be invisible, open for finishers and his 4th is still powerful but slower than it was before. 

[Derodoro]

He is top tier solo with the Shuriken Augment

Edited May 4, 2017 by Derodoro

[Xzorn]

Ash is the 3rd best solo survival frame in the game after Ivara and Octavia.

He's got some OK group value through Seeking Suriken but he's mostly just made to kill things on his own.

[mosaickle]

By looking at his abilities, how is he good for survival? His stealth doesn't seem to last at all compared to someone like Loki for example

[mosaickle]

43 minutes ago, Derodoro said:

He is top tier solo with the Shuriken Augment

Isn't that just armor shred? How is that good for survival?

[Derodoro]

10 minutes ago, Atylia said:

Isn't that just armor shred? How is that good for survival?

It works amazingly even against level 1k+ enemies. If you cant run 4CP cause you're solo you need another way to strip armor.

[mosaickle]

6 minutes ago, Derodoro said:

It works amazingly even against level 1k+ enemies. If you cant run 4CP cause you're solo you need another way to strip armor.

So it's good for killing things, not specifically 'survival'?

Not disregarding your point and not to be rude, I just wanna make sure I don't have any misconceptions about Ash

[Derodoro]

1 minute ago, Atylia said:

So it's good for killing things, not specifically 'survival'?

Not disregarding your point and not to be rude, I just wanna make sure I don't have any misconceptions about Ash

I never said he was good for survival. Although he is amazing for survival I never said it in a post.

He is amazing because endurance runs are defense and survival and while Ash isnt good for defense because he has no cc, he is really good for survival, since his damage scales so well (he actually makes his weapons damage scale well but thats another story).

[Xzorn]

28 minutes ago, Atylia said:

By looking at his abilities, how is he good for survival? His stealth doesn't seem to last at all compared to someone like Loki for example

 

Stealth gives all melee weapons x8 damage. This eventually caps out though, which is were someone like Loki's road will end. Ash however still has Fatal Teleport to instantly be rid of heavy targets while still being able to deal with lesser ones with his melee. If you wanted to go more advanced Arcane Trickery will function with Fatal Teleport, two sets and he's always invisible when spamming Fatal Teleport.

Ash's Passive bonus to Bleed damage also makes him ideal for a pure physical bleed melee weapon which ignores armor scaling.

So in one hand Ash Ignores armor scaling and in the other hand he ignores all scaling. Or most, depending if you use a dagger or not.

[mosaickle]

4 minutes ago, Derodoro said:

I never said he was good for survival. Although he is amazing for survival I never said it in a post.

He is amazing because endurance runs are defense and survival and while Ash isnt good for defense because he has no cc, he is really good for survival, since his damage scales so well (he actually makes his weapons damage scale well but thats another story).

My bad, got confused with another post. How does his damage scale well? Or is it mainly his ult?

Or stealth and passive I'm guessing? Even so his stealth seems kinda meh, especially compared to Loki for example. 

But, is it 'recastable' when active? I hate having to show myself for a split second taking the time to cast again since Loki's isn't recastable while active

[mosaickle]

6 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Stealth gives all melee weapons x8 damage. This eventually caps out though, which is were someone like Loki's road will end. Ash however still has Fatal Teleport to instantly be rid of heavy targets while still being able to deal with lesser ones with his melee. If you wanted to go more advanced Arcane Trickery will function with Fatal Teleport, two sets and he's always invisible when spamming Fatal Teleport.

Ash's Passive bonus to Bleed damage also makes him ideal for a pure physical bleed melee weapon which ignores armor scaling.

So in one hand Ash Ignores armor scaling and in the other hand he ignores all scaling. Or most, depending if you use a dagger or not.

Stealth gives 'all'? Not just daggers? Or is that another one of my misconceptions? So stealth makes my D Nikana do 8x?

And also, so his passive will be nice with my D Nikana then?

[Derodoro]

5 minutes ago, Atylia said:

My bad, got confused with another post. How does his damage scale well? Or is it mainly his ult?

Or stealth and passive I'm guessing? Even so his stealth seems kinda meh, especially compared to Loki for example. 

But, is it 'recastable' when active? I hate having to show myself for a split second taking the time to cast again since Loki's isn't recastable while active

You want to use a Rakta Dark Dagger (or any dagger but I like that one the most) with Covert Lethality and the Tport augment and press 3 to kill anyone in a single hit. Bladestorm is utter garbage imo.

Or you can use your Shuriken with the augment and strip everyone of armor then go ham with your weapons.

Its really easy (and kinda cheesy)

[Xzorn]

7 minutes ago, Atylia said:

Stealth gives 'all'? Not just daggers? Or is that another one of my misconceptions? So stealth makes my D Nikana do 8x?

And also, so his passive will be nice with my D Nikana then?

 

Yea, all melee weapons gain a x8 stealth multiplier when you're invisible which includes all status procs like Bleeds.

Dragon Nikana is a decent bleed weapon, Nikana Prime would be ideal for a little more crit/status but Dragon should work.. For a pure physical build is takes certain mods but for the weapon itself you want at least 70% of it's base damage to be Slash and roughly 20% base status chance and it very much helps if it's also crit viable.

For a Bleed build, If possible,  I would suggest

Pressure Point, Blood Rush, Drifting Contact, Organ Shatter, Weeping Wounds, Berserk, Lasting Sting and True Steel.

Cornerstone mods would be Weeping Wounds and Blood Rush so if you don't have those yet. Best to use a normal elemental status build until then.

[mosaickle]

5 minutes ago, Derodoro said:

Its really easy (and kinda cheesy)

As a filthy social casual I go for maximum cheese. I already have cheese tanks, looks like Ash will be my cheese 'raw damage' frame then

 

But honesty, now that I have all this insight, Ash seems so much better than Loki now...(disregarding his perma-disarm)

[Derodoro]

3 minutes ago, Atylia said:

As a filthy social casual I go for maximum cheese. I already have cheese tanks, looks like Ash will be my cheese 'raw damage' frame then

 

But honesty, now that I have all this insight, Ash seems so much better than Loki now...(disregarding his perma-disarm)

You want Loki in a group and Ash for soloing.

And with how scaling works cheese is the only way to go.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Derodoro

[DiosGX]

If survival solo is your plan with Ash then you're going to want to use Naramon or make a massive duration build for his invis. I used to feel like he was mediocre on paper, but part of his strengths are in his raw stats. His health and armor are more than above average, and being able to just dip out of sight and be invisible for even a few seconds (without a massive duration build) is enough time to Life Strike your HP back up.

Plus, honestly, his Teleport is a godsend in Survivals. Lets you dip around the map very quickly now since you can hop into anything with an HP bar now.

 

His 4th ability makes you invincible while in use, allowing your shields to regenerate with impunity. It's very difficult to actually take Ash down since nearly everything he does gives him a window of escape and allows for re-positioning.

[mosaickle]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Yea, all melee weapons gain a x8 stealth multiplier when you're invisible which includes all status procs like Bleeds.

Dragon Nikana is a decent bleed weapon, Nikana Prime would be ideal for a little more crit/status but Dragon should work.. For a pure physical build is takes certain mods but for the weapon itself you want at least 70% of it's base damage to be Slash and roughly 20% base status chance and it very much helps if it's also crit viable.

For a Bleed build, If possible,  I would suggest

Pressure Point, Blood Rush, Drifting Contact, Organ Shatter, Weeping Wounds, Berserk, Lasting Sting and True Steel.

Cornerstone mods would be Weeping Wounds and Blood Rush so if you don't have those yet. Best to use a normal elemental status build until then.

Damn, thanks a ton for this, really appreciate it

How would Tonbo/Orthos P synergize with the bleed passive? I have both and I love using either 

[mosaickle]

5 minutes ago, Derodoro said:

You want Loki in a group and Ash for soloing.

And with how scaling works cheese is the only way to go.

I do prefer solo when playing damage frames yeah, when I go public I feel obliged to go support (Trin), dunno why

[mosaickle]

5 minutes ago, DiosGX said:

It's very difficult to actually take Ash down since nearly everything he does gives him a window of escape and allows for re-positioning.

So like, despite having pretty good base stats (I only just got Ash P so that's even better stats), his survivability comes from his ability of being 'hard to hit' or 'hard to target'?

 

Cuz that sounds pretty cool

[(PSN)zainubimran]

doing kuva missions with him is a breeze

[ShadowStalker]

"Is Ash good at all"--YES! Yes he is hes one of the strongest frames in game and his augments are awesome.his abilities help each other really well---ok Bladestrom isn't a nuke but is Good enough. what you want to be focusing on is his 1-2-3 his 3-Teleport-Augment Fatal Teleport is so good for taking down insanely high level enemies with just one button and his 1 Shuriken-Augment-Seeking Shuriken with 145% power strength can remove enemies of their Armour completely 

I use ash as an assassin frame to take out bosses 

i dont know what good means to you but if it means Strong Stealthy and Silent yes then ash is Good

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by ShadowStalker

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

The paper is missing out a lotta sweet details from my experience.

 

BS for example easily keeps your combo counter active from a distance while beein able to feed it too, what is just incredibly usefull for slash status/crit builds that can be played offhand and may just peak with Maiming strike too. I like to play this combination wielding my Ignis wraith set to viral/rad status, what makes BS and the slash hit halved health. 

Remember the clones that used to attack simultaneous? They now attack after you physically teleport to targets, effectively doubeling it's damage. It's kinda slowish but the damage you do is still savage. (thus feel free to keep the strength low - Intensify+Power drift are enough to fully stripp armor with seeking shuriken. Spammable while gunplay.)

This goes hand in hand with invisibility (default Smokebomb- activate when you gotta do stuff, Naramon's shadow step- melee and teleport, Arcane Trickery- Bladestorm and teleport finishers) what adds an 8x multiplier to your melee strikes and ups your allready boosted slash status too...

Group support? BS EFFECTIVELY DISABLES ENEMYS DURING ITS ATTACK. Seeking shuriken allows armor dispell too.

Power cost is kinda highish but carrying a sentinel with vacuum makes you pick up loot from enemys you feleport to during BS- No more wasted orbs that just despawn. Not to mention that his builds allow efficiency ...

He

*allows a playstyle that uses seperate, fully specific weapon layouts simultaneous

*does high finisher damage

*works with stealth

*has divine mobility without wasting a single move

*all while giving a lil bit to the group.

 

Go for him. He's among the best frames in hands that are able to utilize his kit.

Edited May 4, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

I like Ash.

You know when you want to do an Invasion and the first time you do it you don't know what mission type it's going to be? I take Ash. He'll cope regardless.

Edited May 4, 2017 by (PS4)drpunk-yo

[Prophet_007]

Ash is great at killing stuff. Regard less of level

His first ability is better used along with the augment

Second ability... Use it wisely for the short cc it can provide rather than the invisibility 

Third ability also way better with the augment

Fourth ability need you to be on the move so that you won't get shot while marking enemies

As for going on high level survival.. I suggest u get an arcane trickery for invisibility. Ash most ability gives you finishers thus triggering the arcane

Hope this was helpful 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Prophet_007
Use a covert lethality dagger for max kill on 3rd ability