Remove Tonkor Entirely (Or bring back the old one)

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Remember when the Tonkor was a fun weapon? 

A lot of people liked it despite being a somewhat clunky weapon. Then everyone who didn't have one complained about how toxic a 6 forma tonkor was just cause their one forma boltor couldn't keep up. 

The result of the nerf? Here's a couple of snippets of it in action.

The result? A weapon that isn't fun to use. Balance be damned. De needs to make this weapon Fun again. Oddly enough, It isn't the gun's damage that made it fun, But the rocket jumping, close range mechanic where you only suffered 50 self damage when this weapon exploded too close to you.

The old Tonkor was Fun as Zephyr as you could stay in the air, as long as you wanted by just firing at the ground whenever you wanted to propel yourself back into the air. Now? It's just a camping weapon. Sit somewhere safe in ODS or a defense and spam. 

De either give the old rocket jump mechanic back that was Fun, or delete the gun entirely and replace it with a salt dispenser. The new version of this gun habitually goes between enemies legs (like video #3) Has weird bounces that either make it blow up in your face, or stop dead somewhere you thought was safe, or is generally just a death trap in general. 

De... While I love you most of the time... Don't always listen to people who beg for nerfs. You just take something that was fun, that people liked and turn into junk. 

I rather have the Tonkor as it is removed from the game entirely, then have my 6 forma-ed butchered tonkor in my inventory make me sad. 
And I'm not the only one with this opinion. Several people have come to me, saying they want to quit this game, just cause of the game's habit to take things and nerf them into oblivion. 

And for all the people who hate this weapon, Can you show me an example of why you hate it? What about this weapon seems overpowered when it's the same as any other launcher, except it used to be fun.

[Varacal]

looks like someone kept killing himself

 

[-DM-Mordred]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Several people have come to me, saying they want to quit this game, just cause of the game's habit to take things and nerf them into oblivion. 

If they cant adapt to an ever changing game its their problem.

And, regarding your complaint, I think Varacal hit the nail in the head.

Edited May 19, 2017 by KillMePlis

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

1- *Throws a grenade in an area* *proceed to run towards grenade*
2- *Shoot an RPG right down at his feet and expect to live*

Those are just two example that came to my mind as I watched the video.

3- That's just... terrible aim, pretty sure the result would be the same even if old tonkor was back.

 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 minute ago, KillMePlis said:

If they cant adapt to an ever changing game its their problem.

And, regarding your complaint, I think Varacal hit the nail in the head.

Look at the third video, Let me know what other grenade launcher goes straight between enemy legs, or can bounce and kill you.

The penta atleast lets you have the option of when you detonate it, and the Zarr has an alt fire for that kind of thing. The Tonkor is currently unplayable. Tell me again how I'm wrong?

[-DM-Mordred]

1 minute ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Look at the third video, Let me know what other grenade launcher goes straight between enemy legs, or can bounce and kill you.

The penta atleast lets you have the option of when you detonate it, and the Zarr has an alt fire for that kind of thing. The Tonkor is currently unplayable. Tell me again how I'm wrong?

To be completely honest, that is some really poor aiming. Now I kinda understand why you like the Tonkor so much, just click and everything dies, no aiming involved.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

1- *Throws a grenade in an area* *proceed to run towards grenade*
2- *Shoot an RPG right down at his feet and expect to live*

Those are just two example that came to my mind as I watched the video.

3- That's just... terrible aim, pretty sure the result would be the same even if old tonkor was back.

 

The point of the tonkor getting 6 meters before detonating is so that you wouldnt get caught in the blast. 

See how in video 3 how it bounces between the enemies legs then like zooms past? Having a grenade launcher that has terrible accuracy, and that can bounce unpredictably, with no control or indicator where the shots go, when every other launcher is either perfectly accurate, or lets you detonate when you want kinda proves my point that the tonkor unusable

[Dwolfknight]

Tonkor is not a primary weapon that you can just explode the map and not care about self-damage anymore, it's a situational weapon, if you find a huge group of enemies, you switch to Tonkor, fire at the group at a safe distance and switch back to your other weapon ("Secondary")

Edited May 19, 2017 by Dwolfknight

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

The point of the tonkor getting 6 meters before detonating is so that you wouldnt get caught in the blast. 

See how in video 3 how it bounces between the enemies legs then like zooms past? Having a grenade launcher that has terrible accuracy, and that can bounce unpredictably, with no control or indicator where the shots go, when every other launcher is either perfectly accurate, or lets you detonate when you want kinda proves my point that the tonkor unusable

It doesn't have to bounce if you actually hit the target, you being in an high area makes the enemy search for a target that it can't reach, so the movement become unpredictable. All you had to do was step down from the mountain and it would've been 2x easier to hit him.

Holding R2 lets you see the grenade course at close range while you get used to its trajectory.

Once you actually get used to it, you'll manage to get the most accurate and damaging shot that you'll need without having to blast the Alt-fire button every time you want to kill something.

Also take into consideration that those are better used in groups of enemies, you could've just used your secondary and then switched back once the round was completed.

Overall, Tonkor being unusable is your fault.
Tonkor explosive mechanic is unique to the weapon, if you want control over the explosion, switch to other launchers.

I personally enjoy the tonkor more than other launchers because of this mechanic and the thrill of not blowing myself up like an idiot. ( Excuse the crude term)

Edited May 19, 2017 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[TrickshotMcGee]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Having a grenade launcher that has terrible accuracy, and that can bounce unpredictably, with no control or indicator where the shots go, when every other launcher is either perfectly accurate, or lets you detonate when you want kinda proves my point that the tonkor unusable

Right, because DE nerfed the accuracy of the weapon along with the crit chance, right? Oh, wait, no. They didn't. It's exactly the same as before. 

Tonkor's accuracy has not changed at all, and the ranged capabilities are almost no different (other than the less broken crit chances). So your argument here is that it's ALWAYS been this "unusable" and the only thing that made it usable was the ability to spam it point blank. 

The weapon was broken the way it was. It had ZERO risk and was easily the strongest weapon in the game, bar none. Even after the nerf it still hits like a goddamn train, so it's not like it's a weak gun in any respect. Another thing about Tonkor is that it has a literal aiming line. Something that shows you where the shot's gonna go. So if you can't aim with a laser sight, then it stops being the gun's fault and starts being entirely on you. Especially since it's perfectly capable of hitting enemies directly without issue.

 

 

The weapon is only "unusable" because you got lazy with it. Learn to use it the same way people learned to use things like Zarr, Kulstar and Angstrum without killing themselves much. It's not hard and it's still stupidly powerful and a perfectly capable weapon.

It's just now, Tonkor is not a stupid weapon.

[Xekrin]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Then everyone who didn't have one complained about how toxic a 6 forma tonkor was just cause their one forma boltor couldn't keep up. 

Here I thought this would be a reasonable discussion regarding its reduced critical chance and overall damage viability since the changes.  Nope, just someone whining about killing themselves and attempting to make their argument by insulting everyone who doesn't agree with them.

Oh well, /thread

[--F--NerevarCM]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Remember when the Tonkor was a fun weapon? 

No, I don't. Using a grenade launcher like a shotgun to kill everything with 1 shot with no effort isn't fun to me.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

41 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Here I thought this would be a reasonable discussion regarding its reduced critical chance and overall damage viability since the changes.  Nope, just someone whining about killing themselves and attempting to make their argument by insulting everyone who doesn't agree with them.

Oh well, /thread

Here's the thing though, The tonkor has already been nerfed stat wise to hell and back. No more headshots, and it was already reduced. 

 

There not gonna unchanged anything like that, So why can't the one special thing about the weapon stay the same? Some people actually liked the rocket jumping aspect of it.

Notice how nobody else uses a poor accuracy grenade launcher anymore? It used to be semi popular, now it's completely unused. I wonder why....

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

44 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Right, because DE nerfed the accuracy of the weapon along with the crit chance, right? Oh, wait, no. They didn't. It's exactly the same as before. 

Tonkor's accuracy has not changed at all, and the ranged capabilities are almost no different (other than the less broken crit chances). So your argument here is that it's ALWAYS been this "unusable" and the only thing that made it usable was the ability to spam it point blank. 

The weapon was broken the way it was. It had ZERO risk and was easily the strongest weapon in the game, bar none. Even after the nerf it still hits like a goddamn train, so it's not like it's a weak gun in any respect. Another thing about Tonkor is that it has a literal aiming line. Something that shows you where the shot's gonna go. So if you can't aim with a laser sight, then it stops being the gun's fault and starts being entirely on you. Especially since it's perfectly capable of hitting enemies directly without issue.

 

 

The weapon is only "unusable" because you got lazy with it. Learn to use it the same way people learned to use things like Zarr, Kulstar and Angstrum without killing themselves much. It's not hard and it's still stupidly powerful and a perfectly capable weapon.

It's just now, Tonkor is not a stupid weapon.

It's never been the strongest weapon in the game. Even back when it could do headshots.

Launchers have always been niche weapons, and can't hold a candle to tigris prime, or other such weapons. 





Tonkor was a good weapon sure. But has literally nothing on these weapons. And the only reason the Tonkor was ever useable was cause of the limited self damage. Same as the Simulor. The only reason people ever used those launchers was cause it wouldnt insta gib you if you made a small mistake. Also you are aware that the Tonkor has 10 accuracy and bounce like crazy before exploding right? Third video I posted shows them bouncing right between an enemy legs then off to nowhere. At this point, the penta is a safer weapon as the tonkor just going to pinball till it kills you

[Xekrin]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Notice how nobody else uses a poor accuracy grenade launcher anymore?

I have not noticed that, as I do not  have the luxury of playing in missions with every single other person who plays the game.  Kudos if you do though.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 minute ago, Xekrin said:

I have not noticed that, as I do not  have the luxury of playing in missions with every single other person who plays the game.  Kudos if you do though.

Don't have functioning eyes? Can't look around and see what fellow tenno use? 

That's too bad. 

[O.O_]

OP - Tonkor is dead, they got what they wanted, accept it.

The Intelligent People - You can't see the explosion radius(same for every launcher), which gets even better when the grenade bounces, everyone is ignoring that... You guys are ridiculous.

Edited May 19, 2017 by O.O_

[Xekrin]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Don't have functioning eyes? Can't look around and see what fellow tenno use?

LOL, again with the blatant insults.  Yessir, I do indeed have eyes, and I have seen the Tonkor in use before in missions.  No it is not as meta as it once was, but I always avoided Tonkor users in the past anyway.

So your little attempt at lumping in the entire playerbase into your fake statistics of literally no one using the tonkor is absolutely 101% false.  Perhaps the people you squad with on consoles do not use the tonkor, but unless you have been in a mission with every single person on PS4 at least once, possibly more since people really do switch weapons occasionally, there is absolutely positively no way at all that you can say with any certainty that no one uses the Tonkor ever.

Do I have eyes.  My gods, do you have a brain?

BTW, I do not use, nor own a bolter, or even a boltor prime.  So thankfully I'm not in the very very small circle of people you insulted with your initial post.  Thank goodness!

Edited May 19, 2017 by Xekrin

[TerrorLTZ]

well at least is one of kind launcher that is Dangerous to you and your enemy. i had to say for those who said it was popular, everyone used it blahblahblah, even themselves used that weapon then left if collecting dust after Soma P and Sancti Tigris came to play.

i think the Mayor Downside of the gun its being able to bounce. a nullifier can make it fly across a huge Room in a Corpus Ship without problem (i got nailed by one when he decided to turn on his shield). also the fact every (not every) tileset are Tiny when u add Firestorm its a Huge Red zone of im on kamikaze mode

[Chipputer]

15 minutes ago, O.O_ said:

everyone is ignoring that

Nobody's ignoring it. It's an inherent drawback of using an explosive weapon. Learn to deal with it or don't use the weapon. Simple as that.

Kids who complain about how bad the Tonkor is, now, are just mad because they can't use it like an explosive shotgun any more.

[TrickshotMcGee]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

But has literally nothing on these weapons.

Radial damage weapons always compete with single-target weapons, any day. I regularly out-damage my fellow veteran clannies while using my Secura Penta, even if they're using Tigris Prime. Also, I notice one of those pictures is a Sniper Rifle. I would love - LOVE - to see you out-damage a competent Tonkor user with a Sniper rifle, even in sorties. That would be a sight to see. And the subsequent salt would make my day that much better.  

It might not deal 100k per shot, but it hits for 20k on every enemy in a whole damn room. Sure, Tigris P scales higher because of stupidly high damage and status, but Tonkor can handle anything that you'll ever reasonably (or even unreasonably) run into. It makes short work of nearly any sortie enemies. 

You may not recall, but it was literally the most used weapon in Warframe for years. If it wasn't really good, do you think people would have used it that much? Hell no they wouldn't have. 

 

19 minutes ago, O.O_ said:

You can't see the explosion radius

You are right. But that doesn't stop common sense from taking over and telling you not to stand 2 meters away from a miniature nuclear explosion. That SHOULD be common sense, anyways. I mean, it is for me. 

But I also don't mind the self-killing, even as a solo player. If I die to my own explosives, I can recognize that it's entirely my fault, because it is. Just like it is the individual's when people die to their Tonkors, or Pentas, or Ogris(what is even the plural for that?). 

 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

2 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

LOL, again with the blatant insults.  Yessir, I do indeed have eyes, and I have seen the Tonkor in use before in missions.  No it is not as meta as it once was, but I always avoided Tonkor users in the past anyway.

So your little attempt at lumping in the entire playerbase into your fake statistics of literally no one using the tonkor is absolutely 101% false.  Perhaps the people you squad with on consoles do not use the tonkor, but unless you have been in a mission with every single person on PS4 at least once, possibly more since people really do switch weapons occasionally, there is absolutely positively no way at all that you can say with any certainty that no one uses the Tonkor ever.

Do I have eyes.  My gods, do you have a brain?

BTW, I do not use, nor own a bolter, or even a boltor prime.  So thankfully I'm not in the very very small circle of people you insulted with your initial post.  Thank goodness!

With complete certainty, I can say that Tonkor is rarely used anymore. How can I say this? I can buy a god roll Riven off the marketplace for 25 plat.

Nobody likes the gun anymore, Nobody cares if there's a godroll riven mod of it, cause they have no interest in using the gun. Crit chance, Crit damage tonkor? Sounds pretty amazing, but ever since the self damage, nobody gives a hoot about it. 

And judging from the responses I've gotten here? Nobody else does either. The grenades are literally pinballs bouncing off everything and the only way you can safely fire it anymore is a direct hit on an enemy, or firing it blankly at a defense pod. 

What made the tonkor great is you could use it on any mission. The only other launcher you could really do that with was the simulor. 
Now if i go try to buy a simulor god roll? 400 plat... Hmmm Using the basics of supply and demand, I can safely say there's not much demand for the Tonkor cause it's bogus now. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

10 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Nobody's ignoring it. It's an inherent drawback of using an explosive weapon. Learn to deal with it or don't use the weapon. Simple as that.

Kids who complain about how bad the Tonkor is, now, are just mad because they can't use it like an explosive shotgun any more.

Explosive Shotgun had this about it, called fun. So yes, People miss a fun weapon. I'll just have to switch to an actual shotgun like the tigris prime. Lotus forbid anyone has fun with launcher weapons

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

11 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Radial damage weapons always compete with single-target weapons, any day. I regularly out-damage my fellow veteran clannies while using my Secura Penta, even if they're using Tigris Prime. Also, I notice one of those pictures is a Sniper Rifle. I would love - LOVE - to see you out-damage a competent Tonkor user with a Sniper rifle, even in sorties. That would be a sight to see. And the subsequent salt would make my day that much better.  

It might not deal 100k per shot, but it hits for 20k on every enemy in a whole damn room. Sure, Tigris P scales higher because of stupidly high damage and status, but Tonkor can handle anything that you'll ever reasonably (or even unreasonably) run into. It makes short work of nearly any sortie enemies. 

You may not recall, but it was literally the most used weapon in Warframe for years. If it wasn't really good, do you think people would have used it that much? Hell no they wouldn't have. 

 

You are right. But that doesn't stop common sense from taking over and telling you not to stand 2 meters away from a miniature nuclear explosion. That SHOULD be common sense, anyways. I mean, it is for me. 

But I also don't mind the self-killing, even as a solo player. If I die to my own explosives, I can recognize that it's entirely my fault, because it is. Just like it is the individual's when people die to their Tonkors, or Pentas, or Ogris(what is even the plural for that?). 

 

The Tonkor was never the most used. Simply cause it required too much forma to make it into a good weapon. No polarity slots and you needed crit on it to have it even compete. 

All you need to do to make a weapon rival a launcher is to put punch through on it. Tigris prime with punch through? Might as well be a launcher with 3x the ammo capacity, no risk, and less hassle. I maybe put two forma in my tigris prime.

If i really wanted to turn my tigris prime into a launcher, I go nova. Takes a singe shot for it to max out amd's damage absorb and 500k damage to everything in 15 meters without even the slightest worry of self damage. 

[O.O_]

1 minute ago, Chipputer said:

It's an inherent drawback of using an explosive weapon.

Guess someone has to learn the difference between a game and real life... Warframe isn't even based on reality a single tiny bit, bye bye hitscan, bye bye bullet jump/double jump/wall run/wall latch, etc.

Guys like you keep complaining about something till it gets nerfed to death and call others Kids, because they think their opinion is superior.