How could DE possibly nerf Loki?

[TheGodofWiFi]

@Aranaevans

Look at all these people who say Loki should not be nerfed. Some even say the environment should be looked at instead, which is far more sensible than anything you and others have put forward. You are the minority. Loki is fine. End of story. Continuing this conversation would be pointless as you no ground.

On 2017-6-5 at 2:23 AM, HellDevil said:

or they don't touch loki at all, he's fine and his powers! It's what he suppose to be, a trickster!

 

On 2017-6-5 at 2:23 AM, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Any change to the stealth Mechanic is a hidden nerf to loki

 

On 2017-6-5 at 2:26 AM, Silvus-Sol said:

Loki isn't the problem, stealth is the problem. Nerfing Loki wouldn't accomplish much and isn't necessary.

 

On 2017-6-5 at 2:29 AM, Chipputer said:

Loki is just as meta as he always was. The difference is that Ivara and Octavia are even moreso than he is so he's simply been replaced in group comps.

 

On 2017-6-5 at 2:33 AM, UvBenServed said:

I'd actually argue that Octavia's invisibility is significantly better (albeit more awkward to use). It has a longer base duration, can be applied to an entire team, and can be refreshed indefinitely. It cost a bit more energy, but Octavia regains some energy over time whenever she uses an ability.

I don't think Loki should be nerfed, at least not directly. But if DE wants to nerf invisibility by introducing enemies that can see you while you're invisible or have enemies shoot in the general direction of invisible players whenever they hear gunfire, that might be interesting.

Instead of nerfing Loki, I would buff his first and third abilities, but have those buffs be based on power strength. This could add some variety to Loki builds, but for anyone who doesn't care about those abilities, nothing would be lost.

 

On 2017-6-5 at 2:41 AM, DrakoKnight48 said:

Imma reply to all that by saying NO! He's already a squishy frame. Nerf the duration of his invisibly; he's gonna die VERY often. I know cause I'm using Loki right now! Combine that with the fact unless you have maxed out Primed Continuity and Narrow Minded, that duration isn't gonna last long, buddy. Matter of fact, a few seconds at best. 

You're basically cutting off his kit for what reason? Why? This mentality on the forums on nerfing Warframes that DON'T need a nerf is out of hand. Stop!

 

On 2017-6-5 at 2:59 AM, nameomnz said:

In my opinion they should either buff loki or nerf octavia

 

On 2017-6-5 at 3:20 AM, Ventura_Highway said:

Loki would be in more trouble of the AI actually responded like you would to an invisible enemy, like if something invisible bumps into you, you'd swat it and if you heard someone loudly shooting two grakatas, you couldn't see them but you could probably shoot in the general direction of the sound.

Also if more levels were determined to kill you like the Kuva fortress, that would be another issue for loki.

 

On 2017-6-5 at 3:43 AM, Kusungphak said:

Well there was a nerf request thread in feedback section asking for invisibility nerf. So limbo has not really completely overwhelmed the forums. Personally I don't want anything to be changed as there is nothing broken. They removed the 512x gas damage anyway. He is a good frame specific for use in certain missions only.

I mean what will be the purpose of nerfing a regularly used frame. 

Is he OP ? No... Loki is normally the first one to go down if an aoe damage hits the area in a high level mission.

Can he nuke ? No... Except for irradiating disarm he can't do damage with his skills

Do his skills cause distress to team? No unless you have a griefer using switch teleport. 

He is my goto frame for capture and spy missions. For capture I usually end the mission with 0 kills.

 

On 2017-6-5 at 3:45 AM, ShadowStalker said:

How to nerf loki>you dont

 

On 2017-6-5 at 3:51 AM, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

if anything loki needs buffs or new tweaks to kit ...

as is hes straight forward, but plenty of his kit is now on other frames 

 

On 2017-6-5 at 6:07 AM, jfhsanseiIII said:

To be honest two of the factions have nullifiers, one of them is melee exclusive, and then there's the grineer.  Modding for Loki means you're going to be modding for duration, range, or a limited version of both.  I think most people fail to notice that Loki is a solid frame, with good synergy and a very LOW learning curve.   The later gives him the appearance of being OP.  However, things change slightly when you get into sorties or deep into endless missions. That's when I see most of those OP loki's getting knocked out because their standing next to a Nidus with Link on and a bombard in an Energy Leech Nullifier Eximus Bubble.  

 

On 2017-6-5 at 6:14 AM, ashrah said:

loki is probably one of most balanced frames.. super squshy..

 

23 hours ago, (PS4)ghinellil said:

I don't feel Loki need a change/nerf. He isn't OP, and who play him invisible all the time are already nerfing themselves, and become almost useless for the team.

Disarm is a great ability, which i see used only by my friends when we do raids 

 

20 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

if it were anyone else, Loki could probably be brought down a peg with no real problems, but this is DE we're talking about; they never do things in half measures, for better or worse. if they nerfed Loki, he'd be right at the bottom of the pile.

if anything, I think the people who play as loki are needing a buff more than anything, it's very rare I come across a decent Loki player.

 

18 hours ago, ALEX_IV said:

I don't understand the point of this post.

Why talk about something that yourself do not condone in your disclaimer? It's just a waste of time.

And btw, Loki is a very balanced frame. Talking about nerfing him doesn't make sense at all.

 

17 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Did you even read the disclaimer?

Otherwise, I think Invis just needs a mechanics change, because as of now, it's practically god-mode + stealth mode + extra melee damage (admittedly, this is more a problem with stealth mechanics in general, not just Loki).

 

12 hours ago, DxAdder said:

DE is never going to Nerf Loki, way too many people wold drop this game in a heart beat.

 

 

11 hours ago, Jobistober said:

Nerf loki? Let's not a say we did.

/thread

 

[Aranaevens]

1 minute ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

I've read everyone's posts perfectly well

Start by reading the OP well :

On 05/06/2017 at 3:16 AM, Xionyde134 said:

Disclaimer: I am not requesting DE to nerf Loki, nor do I condone any game developers releasing mass nerfs. This is just me wondering if it's possible to nerf Loki without actually making him trash tier.

Now, try to stay on topic, "any significants benefits to this nerf" is just off topic. The question is "If RD was a wave like Nova MP, would it make Loki trash tier", there is no benefit since none asked for a nerf in the first place.

[TheGodofWiFi]

Just now, Aranaevens said:

"any significants benefits to this nerf" is just off topic. 

When asking about how they could nerf Loki, the question of how would a nerf even benefit the game comes up. It's not off topic at all. The OP was asking how they could possibly nerf him, people have had trouble coming with possibilities and more importantly, said that it would not be necessary as there is no point to nerfing a perfectly balanced frame. i'e; no benefits to it. Nerfs have to benefit the game in some way. 

It is not off-topic simply because you want to avoid the conversation. Are you going to answer the question or not?

[Aranaevens]

12 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

When asking about how they could nerf Loki, the question of how would a nerf even benefit the game comes up. It's not off topic at all. The OP was asking how they could possibly nerf him, people have had trouble coming with possibilities and more importantly, said that it would not be necessary as there is no point to nerfing a perfectly balanced frame. i'e; no benefits to it. Nerfs have to benefit the game in some way. 

It is not off-topic simply because you want to avoid the conversation. Are you going to answer the question or not?

It's wrong. When you ask "How [...] if" answering "You don't" brings nothing to the actual topic. Imagine someone ask you "What would you do if you were the last man standing of whole humanity ?" and you answer "I'm not", you don't answer the question. You may answer "I don't care since I'm not, I'd think about it if I were", but that brings nothing to the topic, and online, you don't have to answer so it's best to say nothing in this case since the topic doesn't interest you.

[TheGodofWiFi]

6 minutes ago, Aranaevens said:

When you ask "How [...] if" answering "You don't" brings nothing to the actual topic. Imagine someone ask you "What would you do if you were the last man standing of whole humanity ?" and you answer "I'm not", you don't answer the question.

When someone ask "how" you inevitably get "why?". Like if someone asked you "How would you change a certain aspect of a movie?" you will eventually get the question, "Why would you want to do that and would it make the movie better or worse?". Discussing on changes to things, inevitably gives rise to conflicting opinions.

You also seem to miss the point that the OP asked how could they nerf Loki without making him trash. The answer was given long ago; you can't. People have already stated the environment and stealth system is what needs work, as any change to the stealth system directly affects stealth frames. 

 

[Aranaevens]

2 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

When someone ask "how" you inevitably get "why?". Like if someone asked you "How would you change a certain aspect of a movie?" you will eventually get the question, "Why would you want to do that and would it make the movie better or worse?". Discussing on changes to things, inevitably gives rise to conflicting opinions.

You also seem to miss the point that the OP asked how could they nerf Loki without making him trash. The answer was given long ago; you can't. People have already stated the environment and stealth system is what needs work, as any change to the stealth system directly affects stealth frames. 

 

No, "why" is another topic. The topic is how would you nerf it. The if is also important. How is that question too complex for you : IF you had to nerf it, how would you do that ?

And no the answer wasnt given since you failed to argue how a wave for RD would make Loki trash tier. Yes he would be less performant, but that's a given when we are talking about a nerf. It doesn't mess with its core mechanics and I think the one who suggested it nailed an answer, it would be a nerf without making him trash. If you think otherwise you need to demonstrate why, you shouldn't keep telling people they are wrong because it's not needed because that wasn't the point.

If you are so good at understanding what you read you may check again my answers, I've never said Loki should be nerfed, I'm just answering the question of the topic. You did not.

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 hour ago, Aranaevens said:

No, "why" is another topic. The topic is how would you nerf it. 

Right this getting us nowhere as all you are doing is saying that people wouldn't naturally question why a nerf would be necessary when asked how they would do it. People don't just nerf for no reason. Seeing as how Loki is balanced, people are asking "Why would we need to nerf him?". It's relevant.

1 hour ago, Aranaevens said:

IF you had to nerf it, how would you do that ?

I already said I wouldn't ages ago. Don't fix what isn't broken.

1 hour ago, Aranaevens said:

And no the answer wasn't given since I failed to come up with a good answer for it so I'm just going to make an excuse that you didn't come up with a good reason for a wave RD would be trash.

Fair enough. A slow wave RD would be trash since it doesn't instantly take away weapons from every enemy in the near vicinity any longer. So say you are a Loki on one side of the room and a lvl40 Grineer sniper is one the other side. Your invisibility timer is just about to run out. Now with the current RD, you could quickly cast RD and the sniper is now devoid of a weapon just as you exit your cloak. With the wave RD, you cast it and it slowly approaches the enemy, but you've decloaked and before the wave hits the enemy, it fires and you. Bam, you're down. Now other members of the team have to come and revive you. Apply that to a large crowd in one of the many huge tilesets we have and Loki would be utterly useless, since he now has less survivability and his disarm is not instant.

Another example would be if you're defending an object. Say if you are in a group and someone has already started up the defense ahead of you. You notice that your ally has been downed by a high level bombard who has now turned it's attention to the console which it can one-shot. So you can either cast the wave at a distance, by which time the bombard will have destroyed the console reulting in mission failure, or you can jump over there while he's firing at the console and get down by the splash damage, even if invisible. Current Radial Disarm would remove these problems entirely.

This is why an instantaneous disarm is far more effective than a slowly expanding wave.

No please list out why changing it to a slow moving wave, would be better and would solve all the stealth problems. Continuously turning the same type of question on me, is not going to help you at all, as I have the better argument and it just makes you look like you're avoiding the question. 

1 hour ago, Aranaevens said:

It doesn't mess with its core mechanics and I think the one who suggested it nailed an answer, 

He gave the most pathetic answer I've heard. He was offended one of his abilities was no longer needed, neglecting the fact that actually gives him opportunity to use his other powers to his hearts content and arguably, to a more satisfying effect. Being salty about not being able to use an ability, one of which is basically another version of Radial Disarm, is not a good reason at all.

It also does mess with the core mechanics as now Loki is less useful than before and basically makes him mechanically identical to two other frames. DE want's diversity, not uninteresting copy-pastes of the same thing.

1 hour ago, Aranaevens said:

I'm just answering the question of the topic. You did not.

I did actually, quite a few times and at the start. The OP said how would you nerf Loki in a way that doesn't make him trash? I said; you can't as Loki is in a very precise place where he is perfectly balanced and nerfing him directly would not solve any problems people have with stealth. That was a direct answer. It's the system that is the problem, not the frame. Many people have said this already.

Edited June 6, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi

[HellDevil]

Guys, can we just stop now. This is becoming a flame war now...

[Compassion]

On 2017-06-05 at 2:44 AM, Xgomme said:

When 95% of Loki players I see don't even know how to play, meh, nerf people not Loki

 

You can't see Loki players, they are all invisible

[Evanescent]

Ah, in my day they were still teaching people to read in schools...

 

If I had to, I would simply tie his RD to duration and power strength. It's unfair that it only needs one stat and can benefit without penalization.

[Space0ddity]

8 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

I've also had an experience where I was in a squad the had two Loki's in it and they went down repeatedly while I was playing Oberon. This scenario business is getting us nowhere as we can all recall times where one frame appears weaker than another. If you're going down as Inaros, then I'm sorry but that's your problem. I still have one of the longest survival records with him, next to Chroma.

Saying "oh I was in a mission with so and so, and they did this and that while I did what I did" is not helping anyone. We all have different experiences and I'm sorry to break it to you, but just because you were partnered with good Loki players and you were a bad player, that doesn't mean it's their fault.

You are purposely trolling now. Taking the two words out of context with the massive paragraph proceeding it, does not make Loki a tank. If you cast your eyes back to the other sentences you'll see this:

 Tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. Since this role often requires them to suffer large amounts of damage, they rely on large amounts of vitality or armor, healing by other party members, evasiveness and misdirection or self regeneration. Tanks are often represented as large or heavily armored.

You took those tow words out of context, so of course it can be applied to Loki. Unfortunately that is not how it works. You are grasping at straws.

Then go play him. He's perfectly fine the way he is now. Maybe actually take him beyond a lvl10 mission or beyond Akkad then maybe you can get a feel for the frame. No one is going to nerf a frame based on your personal preference, so get that idea out of your head.

i don't want to participate in this argument anymore because you're selfish, arrogant, and an unpleasant person to be around or deal with while i suffer from so many other depressive things. (i got em all, losing a friend, failing a test, being worse at everything, gaining weight, etc.)

1. inaros can't escape a beatdown if he has no energy or ultimate charge, but loki has four abilities that give him a get out of jail free card and his speed is so high it allows him to escape from everything even if he's out of cloak.

2. Tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. Since this role often requires them to suffer large amounts of damage, they rely on large amounts of vitality or armor, healing by other party members, evasiveness and misdirection or self regeneration. Tanks are often represented as large or heavily armored.

often is a conditional word

example of a tank that relies on evasiveness and misdirection (wukongs three damage abilities do very little, he relies a lot on items and skillful decoys)

example of a tank neither large nor heavily armored

3. i don't play frames because i want to be op

[Space0ddity]

it's not healthy to a game when diversity and selection is neutered by some guy with a top tier frame prancing around and screaming "loki masterrace" in everyone's face. the problem may not seem so big, but when was the last time you saw alternative stealth frames being played? because to 30-so frames that are around you might see plenty of other frames, but in the five-ish stealth frames you will only see loki

 

his biggest problem is his invisibility which has no drawbacks. ivara is slow and ash has short duration. my petition is that enemies are actually trained to deal with loki, by tracking him based on the light and noise he makes with great efficiency, and shooting everything around them when he cloaks in front of them.

people when faced with actual invisible combatants would learn to identify footsteps because their life depended on them, making loki required to stay still. people, if they think their lives are going to end unless they kill that invisible warframe, would desperately comb the area with bullets, not outright ignore him

i'm not asking for them to be suspicous, i'm asking for them to be paranoid.

therefore, loki can't trigger regular alarm, instead, triggering panic, befitting his nature as an overpowered frame.

[TheGodofWiFi]

3 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

i don't want to participate in this argument anymore because you're selfish, arrogant

This is coming from someone who thinks that DE should change Loki to their personal preference.

3 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

(i got em all, losing a friend, failing a test, being worse at everything, gaining weight, etc.)

....no comment.

3 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

1. inaros can't escape a beatdown if he has no energy or ultimate charge, 

If Inaros doesn't have Rage equipped then you only have yourself to blame. Otherwise energy is not a problem for him at all. And you always should have your scarab swarm up, just like Loki needs to be invisible.

3 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

loki has four abilities that give him a get out of jail free card

Two. Not four. Decoy is useless and Switch teleport is very situational. Same goes with Inaros. He has a blind, can turn into a tornado, be invicble while chugging on an enemy and can lock down entire rooms while simultaneously getting health back.

3 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

his speed is so high it allows him to escape from everything even if he's out of cloak.

False. Completely and utterly false. Sprint speed does not mean you're invincible as enemies have pin point accuracy. Did I also mention they have machine guns, shotguns and rocket launchers and snipers? Oh and of course, auras.

Sprint speed is entirely irrelevant since Parkour 2.0 which basically means every frame s now faster than a full sprint speed Loki. Just because you can run fast doesn't mean you can't get hit. Volt and Rhino can run fast, yet they still get hit and so does Loki.

 

3 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

example of a tank that relies on evasiveness and misdirection (wukongs three damage abilities do very little, he relies a lot on items and skillful decoys

He relies on stone armor in league of legends. He can take damage in both this game and that game. He takes direct damage,  i.e; a tank.

 

3 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

example of a tank neither large nor heavily armored

He also takes damage pretty well. Which is what a tank does. Loki does not do that. When are you going to learn that tanks traditonally soak up a large amount of damage, that is why they are called tanks. Loki is not a tank.

He would be put in the assassin class if he were in league of legends, because his abilities rely on stealth, critical hits, crowd control and a little bit of deception.

3 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

3. i don't play frames because i want to be op

Loki is not OP.

Edited June 6, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi

[TheGodofWiFi]

7 hours ago, Evanescent said:

It's unfair that it only needs one stat and can benefit without penalization.

He does have penelization. He's a glass cannon.

[FireSegment]

the most simple way of nerf Loki is making his invs go out ( or shorter the duration ) when ever he shot/melee, stuff like that. Or another idea is make it break invis like how ivara invis work (but with other trigger than sound, could still be when deal damage, or take damage).

but yeah, won't happen any time soon 

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

No thanks, >.> I know a trap when I see one. 

[(XBOX)Oussii]

why you wanna nerf loki?

Are you one of those guys who did not get it or are you just trying to start a new wave?

How does the power of loki disturb you now?

Leave him alone.. Jesus

PS: every now and then we get these kind of topics, i don't really understand why. you don't like that frame, don't play it or don't join a squad that has it. Simple

Just leave him alone

[Space0ddity]

10 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

This is coming from someone who thinks that DE should change Loki to their personal preference.

....no comment.

If Inaros doesn't have Rage equipped then you only have yourself to blame. Otherwise energy is not a problem for him at all. And you always should have your scarab swarm up, just like Loki needs to be invisible.

Two. Not four. Decoy is useless and Switch teleport is very situational. Same goes with Inaros. He has a blind, can turn into a tornado, be invicble while chugging on an enemy and can lock down entire rooms while simultaneously getting health back.

False. Completely and utterly false. Sprint speed does not mean you're invincible as enemies have pin point accuracy. Did I also mention they have machine guns, shotguns and rocket launchers and snipers? Oh and of course, auras.

Sprint speed is entirely irrelevant since Parkour 2.0 which basically means every frame s now faster than a full sprint speed Loki. Just because you can run fast doesn't mean you can't get hit. Volt and Rhino can run fast, yet they still get hit and so does Loki.

 

He relies on stone armor in league of legends. He can take damage in both this game and that game. He takes direct damage,  i.e; a tank.

 

He also takes damage pretty well. Which is what a tank does. Loki does not do that. When are you going to learn that tanks traditonally soak up a large amount of damage, that is why they are called tanks. Loki is not a tank.

He would be put in the assassin class if he were in league of legends, because his abilities rely on stealth, critical hits, crowd control and a little bit of deception.

Loki is not OP.

>the point

it's not hard to figure that game diversity being limited by a guy screaming masterrace everywhere he goes is unhealthy and sort of toxic for a game.

>n-n-no comment

no reply

>if inaros doesnt have rage equipped

loki doesn't need an arcane to outperform inaros

>loki's abilities are useless <3, and inaros has ALL those OP abilities

haven't you ever thought that a set of abilities that remove all your possible problems are a little bit excessive? have you ever thought of the switch teleport augment that makes your friends immortal? have you ever thought an ability that permanently makes every enemy around you sort of heartstoppingly useless and traitorous is a bit op?

inaros has a useless passive unless you're dealing with infested, a tornado that drains tons of energy and deals no damage, and also, still keeps you vulnerable, an ult that takes ages to charge and threatens your life every time you use it, a short range weakened blind, a devour that's only good for health pack since it deals low damage, and armor that can go away in a second and takes a minute to build.

>sprint speed doesn't mean you invincible

enemies can't lead their shots unless you are standing still. they share aim code with ballistas. that's why in a mission you seem to take so little damage, because enemies can't actually hit you. and sprint speed actually boosts jumps and other manuevers.

rhino isn't fast, you probably mean nezha

>wukong

a wukong dives into a team and goes berserk rambo style and then leaves. sort of like loki.

>amumu

in that same post i already excluded base vitality and damage resist as not being a necessary quality to be a tank.

>he would be put in the assassin class

ok

1st ability: zed's shadow clone, absorbs fatal damage and you switch places

2nd ability: infinite range zed's decoy switch, make ally immortal

3d ability: go completely undetectable for forever, never uncloaking not even when you attack, gives you free crits

4th ability: make every enemy a melee attacker, reduce range for melee attackers, and nullify abilities

if we put this in league, literally every loki main will end up building tank or playing like a tank, because why wait for a kill when you have an ability set that lets you shrek up a team for good and never recover. don't believe this will happen? think again.

>loki is not op

then tell me who is

 

 

[TheGodofWiFi]

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

it's not hard to figure that game diversity being limited by a guy screaming masterrace everywhere he goes is unhealthy and sort of toxic for a game.

I'm sorry I though you were done here? Also, am I going around screaming Loki masterrace? No, because I'm not an idiot. There is no such thing as a masterace in Warframe

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

loki doesn't need an arcane to outperform inaros

Rage is not an arcane. It's a mod that allows your frame to gain back energy from direct damage to health. Since Inaros has no shields, this mod is a no brainer.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

haven't you ever thought that a set of abilities that remove all your possible problems are a little bit excessive? 

But Loki does not remove all possible problems. Enemies still attack you, eximus units still have their auras and enemies out of your range can still snipe you.

If you really want to go that far, then we should remove every ability that hinders enemy progress, since it's obviously too excessive.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

inaros has a useless passive unless you're dealing with infested, 

Loki has a pretty useless passive as well. What's your point?

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

a tornado that drains tons of energy and deals no damage, and also, still keeps you vulnerable, 

The tornado is a CC ability more than anything else. Also enemies that get smacked into walls by your tornado suffer extra damage. Loki's invisibility also doesn't mean you're invincible at all.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

an ult that takes ages to charge and threatens your life every time you use it, 

Takes approximately five seconds to fully charge and that's when you have no scarab armour. Also once you fire a charge at enemies they get locked down and instantly return all of the health you loose when charging it back up.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

a short range weakened blind,

Maximised duration means you blind enemies for 22.56 seconds. Maximised power range means you can blind enemies for up to 37.5 meters. 

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

a devour that's only good for health pack since it deals low damage,

And makes you invincible while doing so. So it can be used as a panic button until you get all your health back up. It also makes your allies invincible and this without an augment.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

armor that can go away in a second and takes a minute to build.

No it takes approximately five seconds to build up a full scarab armor buff.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

enemies can't lead their shots unless you are standing still. 

Completely untrue. If it was, people would not be going down at all.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

Sprint speed actually boosts jumps and other manuevers.

No it doesn't Sprint Speed affects sprint speed. It has no affect on bullet jumping or other parkour moves.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

rhino isn't fast, you probably mean nezha

You obviously weren't around when Arcane helmets were a thing. The Rhino Vanguard Arcane helmet brought the normal Rhino sprint speed up to 1.25, tied with Loki. Rhino Prime got a boost to his speed from 0.95, to 1.00. This means that adding in Vanguard would make his sprint speed faster than the default speed of a Loki. So we actually have good tank who faster as Loki. Yet I still see Rhino's with this setup go down. Seems speed means very little after all.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

a wukong dives into a team and goes berserk rambo style and then leaves. sort of like loki.

Because Wukong can afford to jump into a crowd as he is a tank. Jumping into a crowd of mid-tier or high tier enemies with a Loki, is not such a good idea and is in fact one of the main reasons why many people go down while playing him.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

in that same post i already excluded base vitality and damage resist as not being a necessary quality to be a tank.

Actually, he does have a resistance to damage and deals out massive damage in return. Basically like Chroma. A tank. Continue trying to make Loki out to be a tank if you wish. Everyone here is just rolling their eyes.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

1st ability: zed's shadow clone, absorbs fatal damage and you switch places

That is with an augment, which might I add has a full sixty second cool down time after each use. Also did I mention the decoy dies basically as soon as you spawn it? Balance.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

2nd ability: infinite range zed's decoy switch, make ally immortal

Also this is an augment. Makes allies immortal for six seconds and practically no one uses it because no one can stand still long enough for it be effective. Also it lasts for a very small amount of time, so many people consider it not worth the slot.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

3d ability: go completely undetectable for forever,

Untrue. Enemies have become much more aware of Loki's these past few updates. You kill an enemy, they go alert. You brush past them, they go alert. You decloak in front of them, they fire at you even if you cloak again.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

never uncloaking

I believe you're thinking of Naramon users and Ivara.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

gives you free crits

Assassins are supposed to give more critical damage, it's their forte. That's why people play them. If they were so squishy and had nothing to make up for it, the assassin class would be redundant.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

4th ability: make every enemy a melee attacker,

A perfect way to counteract the broken scaling.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

reduce range for melee attackers, and nullify abilities

Um, what? Reduce range for melee? What does that mean? Melee enemies already have to be directly in your face to do damage. Also radial disarm does NOT nullify any ability what so ever. It takes away guns, not auras or any sort of other ability the enemies have. You are now making up rubbish.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

if we put this in league, literally every loki main will end up building tank

No he wouldn't because he matches most styles of those in the Assassin class.

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

don't believe this will happen? think again.

Um...

2 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

>loki is not op

then tell me who is

See this is where the flaw in your logic is highlighted best. There is currently no obviously massive OP frame like Limbo rework, or Mesa Peacemaker. Everything seems to be in a good balance right now. You are just looking for something to complain about.

Edited June 7, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi

[TheGodofWiFi]

20 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

it's not healthy to a game when diversity and selection is neutered by some guy with a top tier frame prancing around and screaming "loki masterrace" in everyone's face.

Not screaming masterrace at all. I merely dislike people who don't talk facts.

20 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

the problem may not seem so big

Because it isn't.

20 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

when was the last time you saw alternative stealth frames being played?

I see Ivara and Octavia more often than I do Loki's nowadays. Plus the introduction of Naramon has practically put him out of everyone's minds.

20 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

his biggest problem is his invisibility which has no drawbacks.

It does have drawbacks. Enemies can still be alerted by your presence and it does not make you invincible like say Wukong's Defy does, or Inaros panic ability Devour does.

20 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

ivara is slow and ash has short duration.

1. Ivara can simply roll around the map and can put enemies to sleep. She also has an augment which basically allows her to move at normal speed.

2. Ash's duration can be modded to be basically two-three seconds short of Loki's invisibility. 

20 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

my petition is that enemies are actually trained to deal with loki, by tracking him based on the light and noise he makes with great efficiency, 

So basically rendering invisibility useless unless you stand still or creep around the map very slowly, breaking the overall game-flow and making a mission 100x longer than it needs to be. Okay.

20 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

shooting everything around them when he cloaks in front of them.

They already do that.

20 hours ago, ALOEDA1 said:

people when faced with actual invisible combatants would learn to identify footsteps because their life depended on them, making loki required to stay still. 

This isn't the Elder Scrolls series. Warframe is a fast paced action shooter and the whole game is based around how fast and how efficiently you can kill.

The problem is that stealh is in a very difficult place right now. Giving enemies too much awareness would make stealth all but non-existent and just make everyone abandon the class in favour of tanks other CC frames, which goes against DE's aim of diversity. Quite a few systems in this game are broken and they honestly feel like a long-term solution is not going to happen.

 

Edited June 7, 2017 by TheGodofWiFi

[HellDevil]

quick refresher, with loki agumetns and abbiltys, hes ment for stealh attacks, support, and occsinal recon and sinpeing. Still wishing for a augment that makes loky decoy more durable or cause a disarm blast when destroy.

[Xion]

15 hours ago, (Xbox One)Oussii said:

why you wanna nerf loki?

Are you one of those guys who did not get it or are you just trying to start a new wave?

How does the power of loki disturb you now?

Leave him alone.. Jesus

PS: every now and then we get these kind of topics, i don't really understand why. you don't like that frame, don't play it or don't join a squad that has it. Simple

Just leave him alone

Is this directed to me?

Never did I say that I wanted to nerf Loki, the question was whether or not it's possible to nerf Loki without making him useless. As others have pointed out, Loki is in a good spot because he doesn't rely on damaging abilities, instead relying on his utility to make up for being fragile.

Now why would I leave my most used frame alone?

PS: I don't really understand why you're quick to assume.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Xionyde134

[GreyEnneract]

If anything they need to buff his 1. It's extremely outdated.

[Armadaius]

I cant tell if this out of spite or ignorance anymore, these nerf topics.

Also Ash still master race... lol master race has been attach to many warframes (eg. Vauban, Loki, Ivara, Valkyr, Excalibur, etc)  its lost its mean a while now.

As for people comparing Disarm to MP and Polarize.. yeah don't kinda stupid to tbh

Mag Polarize use to be a literal nuke to Corpus especially 150+ able to clear 60m with one cast which took less than a second and what didnt die could be 1 shotted aka it was OP as hell

Nova MP oh this this was the other OP skill use cast it and instantly the entire room was primed, then kill one enemy everything in range died in blast of coloury smokey death and guess what with range mods thats the entire boss room.

Both skills use to be ridiculously op, However Disarm reduces threat in one aspect not remove it. In fact some enemies become more dangerous (grineer and sheev) but she have to get close to instakill you.

I kinda agree enemy reaction to stealth needs a buff as only ones that actually have decent reaction is Moas as continue attacking area they last saw you.

Anyhow DE is trying to address stealth issue as we are suppose to be space ninjas (ya know stealthy) but we tend to space marine it and rush through guns blazing complete objective quickly and exit even quicker. Stealth bonus was a way to get us to savor their efforts instead of rushing through it.