100% Status Kohm Build

[Lazframe]

Hi
I recently got a riven that brings my Kohm Status Chance to 99.7% (before multishot from Hell's Chamber is applied and with the use of 3 dual stats mods).
My question is: since we know how the status works on shotguns, does it have to be exactly 100% or even 99.7% is fine and does the same work? Do you suggest me to put 4 dual stats to bring it to 100% or keep it like this? Thank you!

Edited June 12, 2017 by SeRialPiXel

[Kylo.]

100% yes

[aligatorno]

10 minutes ago, SeRialPiXel said:

Hi
I recently got a riven that brings my Kohm Status Chance to 99.7% (before multishot from Hell's Chamber is applied and with the use of 3 dual stats mods).
My question is: since we know how the status works on shotguns, does it have to be exactly 100% or even 99.7% is fine and does the same work? Do you suggest me to put 4 dual stats to bring it to 100% or keep it like this? Thank you!

Considering that it is a shotgun, a 100% status chance before multishot is mandatory for an actual status build. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by aligatorno

[(PSN)bananamuffin-352]

Bring it to 100%, 99.7 isn't enough

[(PSN)zainubimran]

100 percent before ms. it makes the kohm a killer :). i have one too and its a lot of fun but the only draw back is bloody ammo

 

[Mattoropael]

100% before multishot is a must for status shotguns. 99.999999% and 100% make all the difference with how shotgun status works.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Mattoropael

[rapt0rman]

To put the whole thing into perspective, with 12 pellets max spooled, even if it had 99.99% status chance, it would still only have 8.33% chance per pellet. Whereas 100% status chance is 100%

I was totally wrong, below is correct vvvv

Edited June 14, 2017 by rapt0rman

[Cabesi]

On 13. 6. 2017 at 8:10 AM, Mattoropael said:

100% before multishot is a must for status shotguns. 99.999999% and 100% make all the difference with how shotgun status works.

99.999999% means on average 78.5% of your pellets will proc every shot. Which is not that different from 100% of your pellets proccing. But as far as OP is concerned, yeah, you want 100% basically.

On 13. 6. 2017 at 8:17 AM, rapt0rman said:

To put the whole thing into perspective, with 12 pellets max spooled, even if it had 99.99% status chance, it would still only have 8.33% chance per pellet. Whereas 100% status chance is 100%

No, the chance would be 53.6% per pellet. 8.33% per pellet would lead to 64.78% status chance per shot.

[rapt0rman]

3 hours ago, Cabesi said:

99.999999% means on average 78.5% of your pellets will proc every shot. Which is not that different from 100% of your pellets proccing. But as far as OP is concerned, yeah, you want 100% basically.

No, the chance would be 53.6% per pellet. 8.33% per pellet would lead to 64.78% status chance per shot.

Huh... today I learned actual shotgun probability. 

1-((1-99.99%)^(1/12))= 0.5358

Always assumed it was more straightforward than that.

 

[Leqesai]

7 hours ago, Cabesi said:

99.999999% means on average 78.5% of your pellets will proc every shot. Which is not that different from 100% of your pellets proccing. But as far as OP is concerned, yeah, you want 100% basically.

No, the chance would be 53.6% per pellet. 8.33% per pellet would lead to 64.78% status chance per shot.

Not how it works. 

 

99 percent chance means there is a 99 percent chance that one pellet will proc. 100 percent status functions differently and means 100 percent of all pellets will proc. 

The difference between the two is that with 99 percent one of the 12 bullets will proc.

100 percent chance means every pellet will proc. So essentially 12 procs per shot. 

 

Huge difference. 

[rapt0rman]

50 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Not how it works. 

 

99 percent chance means there is a 99 percent chance that one pellet will proc. 100 percent status functions differently and means 100 percent of all pellets will proc. 

The difference between the two is that with 99 percent one of the 12 bullets will proc.

100 percent chance means every pellet will proc. So essentially 12 procs per shot. 

 

Huge difference. 

I think he understands that, You can still take that percent and apply

 

Chance per Pellet = 1 − (1 − Status Chance)^{(1 ÷ Base Number of Pellets)}

to get the actual status chance of a single pellet.

If the UI could track 5 decimal points in for 99.99999% (which it can't, but that's beside the point)

then the formula would be 

1-((1-99.99999%)^(1/12))=0.7389 or 74% (rounded up)

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Effect

Edited June 14, 2017 by rapt0rman

[Leqesai]

24 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

I think he understands that, You can still take that percent and apply

  Reveal hidden contents

Chance per Pellet = 1 − (1 − Status Chance)^{(1 ÷ Base Number of Pellets)}

to get the actual status chance of a single pellet.

If the UI could track 5 decimal points in for 99.99999% (which it can't, but that's beside the point)

then the formula would be 

1-((1-99.99999%)^(1/12))=0.7389 or 74% (rounded up)

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Effect

Maybe I'm just stupid but that math doesn't match what is observed Ingame because with lower than 100 percent status you can't get more than 1 status proc per shot.

It looks like your decimal is off. Should be around 8 percent per pellet not 74... 

This is why multishot on shotguns is great for 100 percent builds but potentially detrimental when less than 100 percent because the per pellet chance gets borked.

[rapt0rman]

20 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Maybe I'm just stupid but that math doesn't match what is observed Ingame because with lower than 100 percent status you can't get more than 1 status proc per shot.

It looks like your decimal is off. Should be around 8 percent per pellet not 74... 

This is why multishot on shotguns is great for 100 percent builds but potentially detrimental when less than 100 percent because the per pellet chance gets borked.

No really, the "percent to proc a single pellet" that the UI shows is both inaccurate and useless information, depending on the amount of base pellets (12 in the case of kohm) it will tell you everything from 99.99% (53.6% actual chance to proc per pellet) to 99.999999999999992% (95.2%) is just "99.99%" when as far as probability is concerned there's really a massive difference.

I mean, beyond a certain point, of course there's somewhere close to 100% chance to proc at least a single status, but as long as it's not actually 100% it can't rightfully round up to 100%, and it can't show more than 2 decimal points, so it shows "99.99%" for nearly half of the status spectrum.

...Meanwhile no one would ever even care what their probability is of proccing a single status with a shotgun, so It's just a stupid way of displaying status in general :l

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by rapt0rman

[Leqesai]

So are you saying that, according to the math you have posted, that 99.9999 or whatever has a 74 percent chance per pellet? So you could theoretically get lots of procs with one shot?

[rapt0rman]

36 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

So are you saying that, according to the math you have posted, that 99.9999 or whatever has a 74 percent chance per pellet? So you could theoretically get lots of procs with one shot?

Yep, of course the divided status chance will still be better the less base pellets the shotgun has... and also that many shotguns are still garbage for status.

Poor sobek with 15% base status chance and 5 pellets, with all 4 status/elements AND shattering justice, is still only 71% or:

1-((1-71%)^(1/5))=0.2193 = 21.9% per pellet

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by rapt0rman

[Cabesi]

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Not how it works. 

 

99 percent chance means there is a 99 percent chance that one pellet will proc. 100 percent status functions differently and means 100 percent of all pellets will proc. 

The difference between the two is that with 99 percent one of the 12 bullets will proc.

100 percent chance means every pellet will proc. So essentially 12 procs per shot. 

 

Huge difference. 

99% chance displayed in the arsenal is per shot. Which in effect means it's the chance that at least one of the pellet will proc. It doesn't say anything about just one pellet proccing. That just one pellet can proc is a myth invented and perpetuated people who can't spend 20s in simulacrum to prove themselves wrong.

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Maybe I'm just stupid but that math doesn't match what is observed Ingame because with lower than 100 percent status you can't get more than 1 status proc per shot.

It looks like your decimal is off. Should be around 8 percent per pellet not 74... 

This is why multishot on shotguns is great for 100 percent builds but potentially detrimental when less than 100 percent because the per pellet chance gets borked.

Multishot is never detrimental. The way multishot works on shotguns is that it takes the status chance one pellet would normally have, and simply copies it for the extra pellets from Multishot mods. So, let's say you are using Strun Wraith. It has 40% status chance per shot and 10 pellets, which means 4.98% per pellet. If you add Hell's Chamber, it now has 22 pellets, but each still has 4.98% status chance - leading to a status chance per shot of 67.49%.

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

So are you saying that, according to the math you have posted, that 99.9999 or whatever has a 74 percent chance per pellet? So you could theoretically get lots of procs with one shot?

Yes. 74% of your pellets would proc.

[rapt0rman]

35 minutes ago, Cabesi said:

Multishot is never detrimental. The way multishot works on shotguns is that it takes the status chance one pellet would normally have, and simply copies it for the extra pellets from Multishot mods. So, let's say you are using Strun Wraith. It has 40% status chance per shot and 10 pellets, which means 4.98% per pellet. If you add Hell's Chamber, it now has 22 pellets, but each still has 4.98% status chance - leading to a status chance per shot of 67.49%.

This actually makes the whole thing make sense. Shotguns are literally single shot weapons with a set amount base of multishot which behaves exactly like modded multi shot (increasing "status probability" without changing the individual chance), which is why their status is displayed in such a backward manner.

Which makes me wonder how DE falls into their own traps so regularly O.o 

Giving weapons like the sobek 15% status and thinking that it helps, and then giving it shattering justice... and thinking that it helps....

Or rather the true root of the problem, that status chance mods modify your status based on the base displayed status chance, even though It's such a shoddy and inaccurate representation of what your pellets will actually be doing between 0% and 100%.

Edited June 14, 2017 by rapt0rman

[Cabesi]

4 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

This actually makes the whole thing make sense. Shotguns are literally single shot weapons with a set amount base of multishot which behaves exactly like modded multi shot (increasing "status probability" without changing the individual chance), which is why their status is displayed in such a backward manner.

Which makes me wonder how DE falls into their own traps so regularly O.o 

Giving weapons like the sobek 15% status and thinking that it helps, and then giving it shattering justice... and thinking that it helps....

 

Pretty much. The key to understanding the whole shotgun status business is to realize that they both work exactly the same, and that the only difference is that for normal weapons status chance mods increase the chance per projectile, while for shotguns they increase the chance per shot. The reason why this is done is probably because otherwise all the shotguns would have base status chance of about 5-10%, which would require impossible amounts of status chance to make decent. Alternatively, they could increase the status chance of a single pellet (and therefore indirectly the status chance per shot), but that might have provided for too powerful baseline compared to non-shotgun weapons.

[rapt0rman]

24 minutes ago, Cabesi said:

Pretty much. The key to understanding the whole shotgun status business is to realize that they both work exactly the same, and that the only difference is that for normal weapons status chance mods increase the chance per projectile, while for shotguns they increase the chance per shot. The reason why this is done is probably because otherwise all the shotguns would have base status chance of about 5-10%, which would require impossible amounts of status chance to make decent. Alternatively, they could increase the status chance of a single pellet (and therefore indirectly the status chance per shot), but that might have provided for too powerful baseline compared to non-shotgun weapons.

don't forget weapons like akjagara and twin grakatas, whether it's single shot, 2 pellets, or a full shotgun, I'm fairly certain it's always "per shot", it's just status chance mods don't take pellets into account at all. It's literally modifying the displayed base percent, and letting the pellets sort it out themselves.

And because we don't have mods (aside from a 59.99~% status riven on the kohm, but good luck finding that to test it, lol) that can dig into the higher reaches of 99.99~%, nearly half of the possible status chances are for the most part impossible.

Edited June 14, 2017 by rapt0rman

[Leqesai]

I will need to run more tests with the information from this thread in mind. 

 

Took awhile but I think I'm finally understanding what you guys are saying. 

 

Though it stands that 100 percent status is still vastly superior to 99 percent.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

My suggestion to the OP is to re-roll your riven.  You can get status chance high enough to reach 100% status with only 3 60/60 mods (before multishot) on Kohm rivens.