Dojo Duels are underrated

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

8 hours ago, firephoenixearl said:

They are fair, more than u may have ever thought, if i can be good with any melee, doesn't that mean it's fair? Also ridiculous mods go for both weapon and warframe making the advantages pretty negligible. U have to try duels to understand them ,i hardly recommend u try duels. 

I run Duels every other week with my clannies for Contests and shenanigans. Please don't assume.

They are not fair unless you purposefully limit yourself, which has you and another go by an "honor code", which someone could easily break. That is not balance, that is personally gimping yourself and another to even the playing field because both of you (or only one of you) are far stronger than what can be constituted as "fun". Also, there are clearly OP melee weapons in Dojo Duels. Weapons with Radiation and Primed Reach, like the Atterax or Jat Kittag, are a great example of weapons that can easily one-shot you when people build right. 

I don't know what you're talking about, the advantages are CLEARLY evident when you can run Valkyr and become completely invulnerable, or use the Ignis Wraith and hang in one corner of the room and spray and pray to kill anything on the other side in a millisecond. Just because two things are both ridiculously strong does not mean they somehow "cancel each other out", all they do is emphasize the disparity between them and every other choice, if there even is any.

Dojo Duels are not balanced. They can be fun if you follow an honor rule and gimp everyone drastically, yet that's about it.

This is typically what you see though, in terms of your average Dojo Duel.

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog

[firephoenixearl]

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

I run Duels every other week with my clannies for Contests and shenanigans. Please don't assume.

They are not fair unless you purposefully limit yourself, which has you and another go by an "honor code", which someone could easily break. That is not balance, that is personally gimping yourself and another to even the playing field because both of you (or only one of you) are far stronger than what can be constituted as "fun". Also, there are clearly OP melee weapons in Dojo Duels. Weapons with Radiation and Primed Reach, like the Atterax or Jat Kittag, are a great example of weapons that can easily one-shot you when people build right. 

I don't know what you're talking about, the advantages are CLEARLY evident when you can run Valkyr and become completely invulnerable, or use the Ignis Wraith and hang in one corner of the room and spray and pray to kill anything on the other side in a millisecond. Just because two things are both ridiculously strong does not mean they somehow "cancel each other out", all they do is emphasize the disparity between them and every other choice, if there even is any.

Dojo Duels are not balanced. They can be fun if you follow an honor rule and gimp everyone drastically, yet that's about it.

This is typically what you see though, in terms of your average Dojo Duel.

 

Well while u are fairly right in some parts u are SERIOUSLY wrong in everything else. There are no op melee weapons in duels, whips and polearms are banned same for maiming but not because they are op to unbeatable, but because every newcomer would stick to those cus of their "ease of use". The typical melee has around 3-6m with p reach so it's still damn hard to hit ppl (at high levels without risking yourselfe) even with p reach so it's not exactly unfair. As for jat kitty and galatine well...it's true they are not banned and they shouldn't be, yes jat kittag has 8m range with p reach and deals huge dmg AND staggers u with almost every hit it's still too slow and predictable, someone with a nikana for example will destroy u, if u spam combos he'll just come from above if u fight in the air u have a clear disadvantage cus of ur speed. And u ARE assuming radiation is good, radiation is one of the worst tbh, i tried a full radiation weapon once (DSS) and i was dealing 0 dmg to a valkyr, something u would have known if u had tested anything other than radiation (or if u have tested it at all). U might wanna retest that or recheck the wiki. There is no spray and pray in melee. And ignis....don't make me laugh, someone tried to use ignis against my friends (they were using only melee) he died before he could even start shooting. As for avg players i'm not talking about "avg level" here im talking about good level that's why im saying ppl should duel more, once they get good they'll see how awesome it rly is. Also that video is lame, srsly he couldn't land an areal hit, anyone of "good" level can beat him even when he's using MP. U can't just take any 2 random ppl that can barely even use bullet jump and say this is what duels is like.

Edited June 22, 2017 by firephoenixearl

[Sziklamester]

12 hours ago, firephoenixearl said:

Well if i can beat valkyr with nyx using a half assed build u can do anything xD.

I added you in game mate. This weekend I could be here to play.

[firephoenixearl]

Just now, Sziklamester said:

I added you in game mate. This weekend I could be here to play.

Ok.

[cghawk]

muh e-peen

[firephoenixearl]

1 minute ago, cghawk said:

muh e-peen

Wha?

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

Again, I'm unimpressed.

Look, if you like dueling, then go duel.  More power to you.  When you trash on everyone else who doesn't like what you do, that's when you've stepped over a line.  I've watched a couple videos, and they don't seem at all fast paced to me, and they look rather boring.  I don't see myself being at all into it.  Stop telling me that it's because I lack skill or whatever other insults you want to throw at people who don't like dueling or think it's boring.  If I want to go duel, I'll go play Dark Souls, which was way better at that aspect of gameplay (and, yes, I used to invade in Dark Souls games all the time).

[SilvaDreams]

Ha... Oh this was a good laugh.

Dojo duels are a left over from the old Dark Sector battles. It was the most broken PvP system ever with tons of simple one shots.

As much as I hate conclave it is at least balanced so there are no one shot wonders and you need some actual skill.... Provided you can get a decent host that isn't using a net limiter so they look like Billy-badass.

[(XBOX)rocketstar31]

Isn't the ammo system for duels horrible? I mean, after one duel finishes can't it replenish?

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

11 hours ago, firephoenixearl said:

-snip-

You realize you're using the "get good" excuse, right? That's a very, very terrible way to argue about anything, as it just shows you're using your opinion to debate on a topic based around facts, which as we all know, doesn't do anything except make you look really rude. 

Also, as I already previously stated, Dojo Duels aren't balanced. I'll emphasize the fact that they CAN (technically) be with rules set in place by us, but normally, Dojo Duels are what happens when you bring PvE Mods into a PvP setting and set everything into overdrive. A whole mess of one-shot, over the top meta issues surface.

To come around to your other points, how, prey-tell, does using another horribly OP weapon balance out the other horribly OP weapons? Weapons like Nikanas, Whips, and Hammers are ridiculous in their own ways, sure, but you shouldn't have to counter another person with even more cheese in a certain category to beat them. That's what we already do in PvE, and we all know some of the stuff we can pull isn't exactly balanced at all (looking at you Sonar Naramon Atterax users). That isn't balanced at all, that's the literal definition of Power Creep, the utter opposite of game balance.

You're only proving my point even further by attempting to use the whole "oh well Radiation isn't actually good" argument here, when you didn't even detail what weapon you used. Am I just going to sit here and assume you used an actually terrible weapon? Like what most people in a regular Dojo Duel would not do? Why not try and come back to me when you use something like the Tigris Prime, an actually powerful weapon. This brings me, yet again, to my previous point about building correctly to be horribly overpowered in Dojo Duels. You can easily replace Radiation with Viral or Corrosive and still one-shot people, it just depends on the weapon. I really only used Radiation as an example because it is the most effective against us, yet there are plenty of other options that can still take care of us just as easily. Radiation isn't also the only OP type of damage, it's really just the easiest to kill us with and does the most damage overall, which is a matter of fact, as our armor type is Alloy Armor, which takes far more damage from Radiation damage then it does from Corrosive or Viral. If you literally did 0 damage to a Valkyr, who is made up ENTIRELY of Alloy Armor, meaning that she'd take even MORE damage from Radiation-based weapons, then she must of had Hysteria active, or you're outright lying to me. Stand in a Void Laser for a second if you don't believe me, that's nothing but pure Radiation damage, and any Warframe that stands in it will be annihilated nigh instantly unless they have invincibility frames or some other gimmick. 

By the way, where in the Hek are you getting that the Jat Kittag is slow? We have Mods to fix that, you know, like Primed Fury. On another note, weapons with Primed Reach, hit FAR farther than 9 meters most of the time. For an easy to understand example, Nova's Passive knocks enemies down literally only one enemy model away from her, and that's 6 meters of distance. The Atterax's slide attack literally covers the entire arena, and so can the Jat Kittag's slam attack, for the most part.

Also, as I stated before, I'm talking about Dojo Duels in general. This still applies even if it's "melee only". Whether the player is "good" or not doesn't matter, this is me discussing the unfairness of Dojo Duels at any level with the right mod setup. It's just a matter of fact. Stop trying to use the argument wherein you literally start assaulting me for disagreeing with your opinion about this mode of PvP when you're bending the rules into your favor in the first place. I'm talking about regular Dojo Duels, NOT augmented ones. I've already stated that they can be balanced (kind of) if you have an honor code system in place. What you are arguing about is not your typical Dojo Duel, but one you and your clanmates specifically edited to be fair. That is not how the gamemode plays out in general, and does not therefore make the gamemode balanced because you personally cherry picked what was allowed to be used. In fact, that only proves that Dojo Duels aren't balanced at all even more, as you have to put limits on everyone, including yourself, just to have a fun match.

Edited June 22, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

21 minutes ago, (Xbox One)rocketstar31 said:

Isn't the ammo system for duels horrible? I mean, after one duel finishes can't it replenish?

Yeah, you have to reconnect to the Dojo since it doesn't replenish anything for you normally. That includes your Sentinels and Health.

Edited June 22, 2017 by (XB1)Graysmog

[firephoenixearl]

31 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

Yeah, you have to reconnect to the Dojo since it doesn't replenish anything for you normally. That includes your Sentinels and Health.

No, sentinels and health replenish whenever u lose  (sentinels are hard to get rid of actually, u need to kill them every round which is why i don't like them, it's quite annoying) as for ammo yeah u need to rejoin, which is why melee duel wins, inf ammo :) .

[firephoenixearl]

46 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Graysmog said:

You realize you're using the "get good" excuse, right? That's a very, very terrible way to argue about anything, as it just shows you're using your opinion to debate on a topic based around facts, which as we all know, doesn't do anything except make you look really rude. 

Also, as I already previously stated, Dojo Duels aren't balanced. I'll emphasize the fact that they CAN (technically) be with rules set in place by us, but normally, Dojo Duels are what happens when you bring PvE Mods into a PvP setting and set everything into overdrive. A whole mess of one-shot, over the top meta issues surface.

To come around to your other points, how, prey-tell, does using another horribly OP weapon balance out the other horribly OP weapons? Weapons like Nikanas, Whips, and Hammers are ridiculous in their own ways, sure, but you shouldn't have to counter another person with even more cheese in a certain category to beat them. That's what we already do in PvE, and we all know some of the stuff we can pull isn't exactly balanced at all (looking at you Sonar Naramon Atterax users). That isn't balanced at all, that's the literal definition of Power Creep, the utter opposite of game balance.

You're only proving my point even further by attempting to use the whole "oh well Radiation isn't actually good" argument here, when you didn't even detail what weapon you used. Am I just going to sit here and assume you used an actually terrible weapon? Like what most people in a regular Dojo Duel would not do? Why not try and come back to me when you use something like the Tigris Prime, an actually powerful weapon. This brings me, yet again, to my previous point about building correctly to be horribly overpowered in Dojo Duels. You can easily replace Radiation with Viral or Corrosive and still one-shot people, it just depends on the weapon. I really only used Radiation as an example because it is the most effective against us, yet there are plenty of other options that can still take care of us just as easily. Radiation isn't also the only OP type of damage, it's really just the easiest to kill us with and does the most damage overall, which is a matter of fact, as our armor type is Alloy Armor, which takes far more damage from Radiation damage then it does from Corrosive or Viral. 

By the way, where in the Hek are you getting that the Jat Kittag is slow? We have Mods to fix that, you know, like Primed Fury. On another note, weapons with Primed Reach, hit FAR farther than 9m most of the time. The Atterax's slide attack literally covers the entire arena.

Also, as I stated before, I'm talking about Dojo Duels in general. This still applies even if it's "melee only". Whether the player is "good" or not doesn't matter, this is me discussing the unfairness of Dojo Duels at any level with the right mod setup. It's just a matter of fact. Stop trying to use the argument wherein you literally start assaulting me for disagreeing with your opinion about this mode of PvP when you're bending the rules into your favor in the first place. I'm talking about regular Dojo Duels, NOT augmented ones. I've already stated that they can be balanced (kind of) if you have an honor code system in place. What you are arguing about is not your typical Dojo Duel, but one you and your clanmates specifically edited to be fair. That is not how the gamemode plays out in general, and does not therefore make the gamemode balanced because you personally cherry picked what was allowed to be used. In fact, that only proves that Dojo Duels aren't balanced at all even more, as you have to put limits on everyone, including yourself, just to have a fun match.

There are way too many stuff i need to prove wrong in there which is why im not even gonna bother, give me 1 day and i will make sure to prove all of that wrong once and for all (not only that, every "superstition" about dueling, every "1 hko;" every "weapons are imbalanced" every status is broken and the list goes on). Just give me 1 day.

Edited June 22, 2017 by firephoenixearl

[firephoenixearl]

7 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

Ha... Oh this was a good laugh.

Dojo duels are a left over from the old Dark Sector battles. It was the most broken PvP system ever with tons of simple one shots.

As much as I hate conclave it is at least balanced so there are no one shot wonders and you need some actual skill.... Provided you can get a decent host that isn't using a net limiter so they look like Billy-badass.

I'll give u a link tomorrow.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

13 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

Ha... Oh this was a good laugh.

Dojo duels are a left over from the old Dark Sector battles. It was the most broken PvP system ever with tons of simple one shots.

As much as I hate conclave it is at least balanced so there are no one shot wonders and you need some actual skill.... Provided you can get a decent host that isn't using a net limiter so they look like Billy-badass.

 Look, dojo duels may not be all that fun to you, but it takes an EXTREME amount of skill to do that you're neglecting. Of course of you use the meta build atterax, or karyst or whatever, you're just being lame because you're just copying another guy's skill of builds. The skill of building right and the skill of playing right are two seperate things. It took some serious smarts to get the dueling builds tournament duelers use on the daily. Just because others take those builds and use it as their own doesn't make it any less impressive. That's why I never tell people my best builds.

As for playing skill, you gotta give the guy credit if he gets you. If you're bringing a blood rush body count melee into a duel, of course you'll do bad because that's not smart. That combo for melee is not only a little ridiculous on it's own, but it's apve setup that focuses on longevity, not consistency. Back in the day, there were no shadow debt mods, and how you built melee in pve worked just as good in dueling. But with those mods, pve builds broke rank and sacrificed initial power for scaling, which separated pvp builds from pve. It's the same as any other game. Bring literally any melee weapon into a duel, built FOR A DUEL, and you'll two- three shot anyone, even a valkyr. The ability for your opponent to get you before you get him is a really hard skill to master. Conclave doesn't even come close. Now note thatI don't agree with the OP's idea of dueling being very well balanced and there are ridiculous aspects to it, but that's what rules are for. If you can compromise a set of rules to play by (usually melee only is a given), then you'll enjoy it a whole lot more than you realize.

[Silvus-Sol]

6 hours ago, firephoenixearl said:

give me 1 day and i will make sure to prove all of that wrong once and for all (not only that, every "superstition" about dueling, every "1 hko;" every "weapons are imbalanced" every status is broken and the list goes on). Just give me 1 day.

Today is a day, prove it wrong.

Oh...

6 hours ago, firephoenixearl said:

 which is why im not even gonna bother

...right.

My guess is that you aren't gonna bother because you can't. Because you are either A: lying and trolling, or B: lying to cover your ego. The problem is that they are bad lies. Easily disproven lies. And your whole "1 v 1 me bro" routine ran out of gas on the second page.

Do the smart thing and just walk away, let this whole mess fade into obscurity.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Silvus-Sol

[Silvus-Sol]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

 Look, dojo duels may not be all that fun to you, but it takes an EXTREME amount of skill to do that you're neglecting. Of course of you use the meta build atterax, or karyst or whatever, you're just being lame because you're just copying another guy's skill of builds. The skill of building right and the skill of playing right are two seperate things. It took some serious smarts to get the dueling builds tournament duelers use on the daily. Just because others take those builds and use it as their own doesn't make it any less impressive. That's why I never tell people my best builds.

Tbh I have never used someone else's build. I don't see the point. It's not hard to figure out what a weapon is good at or how to build it. And when in doubt, toss on some more damage.

I mean, every crit build is pretty straightforward. Add in the +crit % and +crit dmg, then the acolyte mods unless you plan on hipfiring/quick melee'ing most of the time. Done. That's 90% of crit builds in the game. Why would you need to be told this for every single crit weapon? Same goes for status builds. Granted, status builds do have a bit more options in regards to mods, but it the core is almost always the exact same stuff.

What I have done is on occasion, is adopted some mods I otherwise overlooked into my builds based on another's suggestion. For example Brozime shining the light on the Burston syndicate mod. I didn't think some fire rate would make much of a difference, boy was I wrong there. But that is different than copy/pasting a build that someone else did, a build that should be common sense if you understand the basics of the game.

I know this is sort of off-topic, but this place is a train-wreck anyways. *shrug*

Edited June 23, 2017 by Silvus-Sol

[KiroTheTraveler]

My problem with duels are weapons can be too powerful for duels and I wish there was more health so it if felt like a boss battle.

[firephoenixearl]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

 Look, dojo duels may not be all that fun to you, but it takes an EXTREME amount of skill to do that you're neglecting. Of course of you use the meta build atterax, or karyst or whatever, you're just being lame because you're just copying another guy's skill of builds. The skill of building right and the skill of playing right are two seperate things. It took some serious smarts to get the dueling builds tournament duelers use on the daily. Just because others take those builds and use it as their own doesn't make it any less impressive. That's why I never tell people my best builds.

As for playing skill, you gotta give the guy credit if he gets you. If you're bringing a blood rush body count melee into a duel, of course you'll do bad because that's not smart. That combo for melee is not only a little ridiculous on it's own, but it's apve setup that focuses on longevity, not consistency. Back in the day, there were no shadow debt mods, and how you built melee in pve worked just as good in dueling. But with those mods, pve builds broke rank and sacrificed initial power for scaling, which separated pvp builds from pve. It's the same as any other game. Bring literally any melee weapon into a duel, built FOR A DUEL, and you'll two- three shot anyone, even a valkyr. The ability for your opponent to get you before you get him is a really hard skill to master. Conclave doesn't even come close. Now note thatI don't agree with the OP's idea of dueling being very well balanced and there are ridiculous aspects to it, but that's what rules are for. If you can compromise a set of rules to play by (usually melee only is a given), then you'll enjoy it a whole lot more than you realize.

Man, i'm srsly starting to like u, u seem to be pretty top tier. Your the ONLY guy in this damned topic who knows his S#&$ xD.

[firephoenixearl]

5 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

Today is a day, prove it wrong.

Oh...

...right.

My guess is that you aren't gonna bother because you can't. Because you are either A: lying and trolling, or B: lying to cover your ego. The problem is that they are bad lies. Easily disproven lies. And your whole "1 v 1 me bro" routine ran out of gas on the second page.

Do the smart thing and just walk away, let this whole mess fade into obscurity.

Hahaha, ofc i can't prove u wrong with words, i already did, i will give a link later today, because the playerbase seems to be so dumb they don't even know how bad radiation rly is, so if my words won't work i guess a stream where i prove everything wrong with testing will. I mean srsly guys u think some 3 random dudes who play pve daily just randomly show up and are able to shatter my every knowledge about duels without dueling even ONCE in their lifetime. Geez.

Edited June 23, 2017 by firephoenixearl

[(PSN)Crixus044]

5 minutes ago, firephoenixearl said:

Man, i'm srsly starting to like u, u seem to be pretty top tier. Your the ONLY guy in this damned topic who knows his S#&$ xD.

Lol i appreciate it dude. Dojo dueling was always a passion of mine and I loved dueling ever since I started the game. Pve may be the heart of warframe, but before there was conclave, there was Dueling, and everybody who has played for more than 2 years, even before parkour 2.0, knows and appreciates dueling.

[firephoenixearl]

Just now, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Lol i appreciate it dude. Dojo dueling was always a passion of mine and I loved dueling ever since I started the game. Pve may be the heart of warframe, but before there was conclave, there was Dueling, and everybody who has played for more than 2 years, even before parkour 2.0, knows and appreciates dueling.

That is true, too bad u'r a PS4 player doe :(, i'd enjoy sparring with ya.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Just now, firephoenixearl said:

That is true, too bad u'r a PS4 player doe :(, i'd enjoy sparring with ya.

I was just about to say lol

Come join the dark side, we have exclusives :)

[firephoenixearl]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I was just about to say lol

Come join the dark side, we have exclusives :)

\I'm too noob to have a ps4 xD.

[DrakoKnight48]

I once dueled against my Clan mate.

I was a Rhino and he was a Nezha. 

I challenged him, thinking he was gonna get a train run on 'em. 

I regretted it soon after realizing his gun did more Damage. 

My poor Rhino lost 10 times in a row. 

In my opinion PVP is more frustrating than soloing the starchart,