Giving the Void, Orokin Derelict, Lua and Kuva Fortress a purpose

[Thundervision]

Seeing over and over again how people argue about Kuva that needs to be put in Kuva Fortress actually made me remember it's not just Kuva and the Kuva Fortress that have issues. The Void post-SC3.0, the Orokin Derelict now when Prime parts aren't dropping there, the Lua -- all these regions, despite how beautiful they are, are either boring or has no purpose once you got all the Drift Mods, Argon, Bullet Dance, Octavia parts, Samples etc.

The Void Traces belong to Void.

The Orokin Vaults belong to Orokin Derelict and Void

The Kuva belongs to Kuva Siphon and Kuva Fortress.

The Lenses and Axi relics belong to Lua.

 

Orokin Derelict (OD)

This one was a big «why didn't you do this to OD, too» question after Star Chart 3.0 when the Void got rid of the key-system. The region literally feels abandoned and forgotten, it's locked behind the keys, there are no alerts for OD and the Fissure can't occur there, too.

The greatest thing about Orokin Derelict could be the vaulted prime gear, but as good as it sounds, it most likely won't happen. Also, while nothing comes to my mind but «get rid of the key system» (what to do with the Nav coods people have or the keys they already crafted) there's possibly still a way to keep both: the Orokin Derelict keys and an open region.

OD will always be open, you can play the Fissure missions there and maybe even Alerts if there will be any, but in order to do the Vault missions you have to craft a key that reveals the location of the vault and when it's crafted it gives you an additional mission mode. Something like that:

• Orokin Vault  --  everybody can join the mission as long as they have the key crafted. I mean, for a 100% success you still need a pre-made team, but why not still keep it Public, too.

UPD: Turns out, it would encourage the griefers to ruin the other players' fun.

a) remains locked behind the mission node key and the Dragon Keys,

b) players should craft each type of the key and when the mission is started the squad will receive one of the possible debuffs.

• Normal Mission -- everybody can join it whenever they want, but the mode lacks the Orokin Vaults' presence.
• Fissure mode -- nothing needs to be explained. Works just like any other Fissure on Star Chart. Lacks the Orokin Vaults' presence just like the Normal mode.

While it's a pure offtopic, but making it open would actually decrease the heat (if there is still one) and popularize the mode much more: no need to sit in recruiting chat, arguing about frames you need or something, get the frame and gear and just play the game.

 

Void

Am I the only one who thinks it doesn't make any sense that the only source of getting the Void Traces is the Fissure mission? Pretty sure I'm not.

Really, what's the damage of adding the Traces in the Void? With Star Chart 3.0 the Void became an abandoned place: people got tired of the Void Defense long time before SC3.0, since it has just one tileset w/o anything unique or different, and grinding for something behind the Rotation C, something that has 5% is surely helped a lot.

• Void Traces' quantity could be around 10-25 (praise the RNGesus) with a drop chance somewhat equal to a drop chance of Ayatan Cyan Stars.

Drop source: Crates, Lockers (do you even explore?), elite Eximus enemies such as Ancients, Nullifiers or Bombards.

Alternate source (which would also fit for Ducats w/o selling the prime parts, wouldn't be that great but it would still have more than one way to get them):

• Void Traces can be acquired by opening and completing the Treasure Rooms' time trial -- they really need to have a purpose other than just having crates and Syndicate medal/Ayatan statue occasionaly.

Also, since the Orokin Derelict shares the tileset design and structure (not counting the infestation and the consequences of it), why doesn't the Void have the Orokin Vaults as well?

There are 23 Corrupted mods and all of them have equal chance to drop. Why don't we put 11 of them in the Void and 12 mods in the Orokin Derelict?

 

Lua

What keeps bothering me is, how comes The Second Dream gave us the Focus and its lenses and yet Lua doesn't have any in mission rewards? Instead, its job does the Sortie which has nothing with Lenses/Focus in general, more than that, in order to get the lenses you need to complete The War Within to unlock the Sortie mission while you're getting access to Focus after completing The Second Dream.

A forgotten Moon that was hidden until now. You think it has treasures inside its abandoned, destroyed Orokin veins and beneath the surface? The so-called treasures are limited to Drift Mods, Acolyte (yeah, that could be added back on a reg. basis instead of when-it's-good opportunity) mods and a chance to get a Forma after solving the puzzle.

But what about the lenses? None, zero of them can be acquired there.

• Putting the lenses there instead of the Sortie would not only be thematic but would also allow to give the Rivens their own entry (Rifle Riven, Shotgun Riven, Secondary Riven, Melee Riven instead of just a single "Riven Mod" entry) since we'll get the Melee Rivens as well. The best way would probably be putting them in Mobile Defense or any other mission where you can meet the Sentient drones.

Also, the Lua's endless and Spy missions could have an increased chance (among the Star Chart) of getting some specific Axi Relics (say, the ones that have lower chances to be acquired in other missions).

 

Kuva Fortress

There's little to say: put the kuva as a resource there. I mean, seriously, people will keep complain more and more and it will eventually happen just like PvP wasn't going to happen (and it happened like... what, about 3 months later?). Remember those times?

 

<Removed unnecessary offtopic note>

 

It just doesn't make any sense you can't find the Kuva in the Kuva Fortress. Even when you're poisoning it you can't get the Kuva. There's so much feedback for that: dedicated AW Hijack missions (why the Kuva region even says "Archwing" when the only time you're using it is during the quest), Kuva Defense with Kuva Reward, hidden Caches/tanks with Kuva etc. So much diversity for just one resource and yet all we currently have is two repetitive missions and the only idea so far was to put the 4k Kuva in Sortie reward.

 

What's the point of creating such incredible tilesets (design- & music-wise) with the shared non-unique Star Chart rewards separated by just tiers? In this case people will go for the most efficient way. This is how there will always be a loot cave or Xini, Viver, Kiste, Kappa, Draco, E-Gate, Triton, Hieracon etc.

I'm playing since U7 but, to be fair, I really can't say the rewards are that different than they were when for doing 60 waves of Defense all you was getting were the Heat mods. I won't argue that the Fissure system is a really, really good concept and execution (even tho, it could use some tweaks for reactant drops and void traces), but other regions and their missions... Can't say they are good or rewarding.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Thundervision
Removed unnecessary part as well as adding the other way to make Orokin Vault mode Public

[Urlan]

Well, I can say I support giving tile-sets more incentive to run them. Rewards like those suggested seem a logic direction.

[Husla]

I don't support you in the OD being open.

It seems silly to even have a "vault" mission. All you would get is people either having the same key or not opening the vaults with the key to that door. Too much trolling can happen.

[Vrcross]

7 minutes ago, Husla said:

I don't support you in the OD being open.

It seems silly to even have a "vault" mission. All you would get is people either having the same key or not opening the vaults with the key to that door. Too much trolling can happen.

They could change it so you only build one type of key, and when a party of 4 loads into a vault mission the key gives one of the 4 debuffs at random.

[AlphaPHENIX]

I agree with almost everything, but when you think about it siphons don't make much sence on the Kuva Fortress. I mean the Kuva needs to be gathered from somewhere and transported back to the Fortress, right?

So why not make Kuva a rare recource like Oxium? That way we still have the siphons for bigger amounts, and the people who don't like siphon missions can still gather kuva a little more slowly. Now by ''like Oxium'' I mean exactly like it because if you didn't know, Oxium can be gathered from Storage Containers...which are everywhere, meaning that Kuva will be everywhere, like it already is though only gatharable at certain locations at a time because of the siphones. Yes that means it won't be only on the Kuva Fortress, here is how to fix the problems with that, simply make it a lot more common (still rare) on the Fortress compared to other locations.

To the people reacting like: ''As rare as Oxium, what are you insane!?'' Keep in mind this is a grinding game after all and besides...you will still have your siphons if you want the Kuva that bad.

Another option for a Fortress specific way of getting Kuva is of course as suggested before, say make Kuva Alerts. How about instead we bring back those high amount of Credits Alerts as Sabotage missions and in each cache there is an x amount of Kuva. Also so it isn't only on Alerts, just add a chance for them to be in normal Sabotage caches.

[MystMan]

20 hours ago, Thundervision said:

There's little to say: put the kuva as a resource there. I mean, seriously, people will keep complain more and more and it will eventually happen just like PvP wasn't going to happen (and it happened like... what, about 3 months later?). Remember those times?

Is this actually a good reference to use as an example?  More like history trying to repeat itself from not learning from it.

Complaining is one thing, but getting what people complained about the way they wanted/expected it, is another.  Cause I don't see the pvp playerbase growing into a sizeable amount and the complaining is still going on because "many reasons".

Same thing would happen with the Kuva or Sortie token requests.  Even if we'd get them, it would happen in a different unexpected way and people would continue complaining because of unforseen reasons. 

Game devs cannot please everybody because players don't really know what they want.
I can already guess what would happen:

Kuva in Kuva Fortress:  I'm tired of being in this tileset for so long farming only Kuva!  It's taking foreeever to get the amount I need! I'm sick of this place! (See Void Fatigue Syndrome)

Sortie token reward: I earn so few tokens per day and the costs for the token prizes is too damn high! It's taking foreeever to get the amount I need! I'm sick of this place!

 

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger (from the future, where everybody wears black )

[Thundervision]

27 minutes ago, MystMan said:

-snip-

I get your point.

Regarding complaints, this is more like yes and no. For example, there are Discord Conclave Community, Conclave Clans, players that enjoy the Conclave but aren't the members of any dedicated group, and then there are players that don't like WF's PvE but do like its PvP -- many of them enjoy the Conclave and provide the data, tips, guides as well as feedback with any changes etc. And then there are the other type of players, the opposite: someone who'd like to enjoy IF yadda yadda yadda, someone who doesn't like the idea of PvP, and then a 3rd side: the pure haters. Though, it's the offtopic talk (and I really don't know why did I even include it yesterday). And for changes forced by complaints we can look at Syn. Simulor, Tonkor, Syn. Gammacor, Limbo, Saryn re-balances. Just like any other part of the game, any game.

 

The thing is, we should never set the bar of our expectations. That's true. From the game mode concepts to warframe concepts -- we've seen it, there are many reasons it won't be a 100% copy. And I didn't provide any numbers but for Void Traces (Void Traces alerts give us 20 traces. Yeah, it's good, 'cause instead of RNG lottery of getting 8 or 30 traces you get guaranteed 20 traces AND sadly, no matter what the level or mission type is), so if the feedback is noted and implemented, there's a great chance we'll see the Kuva resource in the Fortress dropping in 12-30 units, or like Oxium in 300 units, or the same amount we get from the Siphon which can be around 500-600, but in this case it should be balanced as well: 12-30 would belong to crates/lockers, 300 would belong to non-Siphon alerts and 500-600 would belong to Rot C, heheh. The game is F2P, so the devs are building their game most likely around their condtions to make it float while still trying to please the players and not turn the game into «just buy Plat, just buy things with the Plat and don't bother with ABC etc.»

I won't even argue about us, the players who can be easily spoiled and demand more and more at the same/lesser cost. But there should be logic behind content while still keeping the balance:

Say you get the old 2k Endo for an 1hr Sortie. Is it rewarding, when you can get the same amount of Endo through dissolving the mods you got in, say, a 15min run? It's only good when you get 2k Endo right now, but not when you look at how much effort and time it took.

The ratio of efforts and rewards covered in RNG is one of the issues the game has, as the mission rewards (long Defense runs vs. Excavation vs. Interception vs. Exterminate etc.) and as the resources (like the Infested that don't drop faction-related resources in regions affected by Infested Outbreaks).

 

And speaking of the Sortie's Tokens system. While it would be good to have it, I don't think we have enough items (equally useful items) to put them there as the rewards: toss out the Lenses, Endo and Forma. The Sortie would look poor in terms of its rewards. IIRC, someone calculated the chance of getting Legendary Core is about a chance to get 1 Core per year, I can't imagine the how much tokens you'd need to balance the price of it. So the most popular items would be the Rivens, which would be costly as well. So, yeah, just like you said, there will be complaints.

 

21 hours ago, Husla said:

I don't support you in the OD being open.

It seems silly to even have a "vault" mission. All you would get is people either having the same key or not opening the vaults with the key to that door. Too much trolling can happen.

Oh, right, right, right, with the griefers. I always forget about the griefers

May I ask why you're against the open Derelict though? I get the point regarding Orokin Vault griefers and aborters. Though, @Vrcross suggested also a good idea with a single random debuff for entire squad.

And the Orokin Vault Mission can still remain locked, being a Solo or pre-made mode and not a Public mode, I really don't see a big deal there, since we still need both types of the keys: for a mission node and for the vault. The Vaults could still be locked behind these conditions: to get a Vault mission craft the OD key that reveals the location of the vault, to open the vault craft the Dragon Key. And for a 100% success recruit 3 more people with a different key.

The only things that remain open are the Vault-free missions (but Lephantis Assassination, this one is still locked behind the key) which you can play whenever you want w/o it being locked behind a recruiting, just like the current Void

[Zanchak]

I dislike void being open so I'm of the same thought with OD. When I was a "noob" it was a "treat" to be taken to the void and explore, it was a new adventure, same with OD. Nothing now with the exception of OD has that same feel for new players because everythings accessible and can be "pubbed". Opening it all up (void) kind of took some of its mystery away and the actual effort to get into them to begin with, which is part of the fun (except maybe for the lazy types haha)

I don't agree with anywhere having vaulted prime items available. Most people grind away getting such things before they are vaulted and it'd be a slap in their face to make it all readily available to the right keyholders. People can wait, and grind, like everyone else did, or buy it if they can't be bothered (and support development in the process).

I like the other suggestions insofar as they make more sense that it does now, and I miss the void having a purpose. It's so wasted sitting there doing nothing.