Rhino, Rhino, Rhino [Edit 12: Rhino Charge/Iron Skin Augment]

[True_Naeblis]

Yeah, the suggestions for Rhino Charge to build momentum and be a sustained run instead of a crazy high speed straight line would make him a lot more interesting. Giving it time to build up the charge bonus towards Iron Skin would be a great change as well. He definitely needs higher base armor an energy, he's just not where he should be for a Prime frame, and it's silly that Valkyr can stand up to more direct punishment without any abilities on.

Iron Skin definitely needs to be able to be refreshed without the augment. I wouldn't mind having Iron Shrapnel built in, but the refresh needs to be there. It's a definite negative to have a frame that requires two augments to be fully functional.

Again, he needs some small tweaks, not a massive rework that introduces new problems.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 8/21/2017 at 1:13 AM, Insidiatorii said:

All im saying is people need to stop being so lazy. Complex frames feel more rewarding to use anyway, imo.

Incorrect. Simple or complex matters very little in laziness. In endgame (not sortie bs, REAL endgame), you can't be lazy to succeed no matter who you use. All that changes is how many steps you take to get there. Rhino's best attributes are his simplicity, effectiveness, and modding variety. It may be good for newer learning players to get through the game easy, but if you think that's the extent of rhino, you are sadly mistaken. You've barely scratched the surface.  His simplicity means he has so much variety in how to play him, it's hard to choose. Most people settle on one way to play a frame and grow the belief that their playstyle defines the frame's essence.  This has been a trend that more complex frames have turned the game into. Most of the more complex frames have so much work put into them and so many step done to only do one thing. Granted, that the one thing they do, they do well, but it's still just one. Rhino on the other hand has such simplicity in his kit, that his playstyle is super malleable. Ironclad Shrapnel Nuke, Ironclad Skin tank, stomp map freeze cc god, damage buff king, speed build. Enemy debuff build, Etc. And there's so many tactics and ways to play him with each one of those builds. That's great for vets who need an all rounder frame. Rhino can do it all and can do every role equally well. There's never a team that won't accept a good rhino user.

Gonna let that sink in

[Insidiatorii]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Incorrect. Simple or complex matters very little in laziness. In endgame (not sortie bs, REAL endgame), you can't be lazy to succeed no matter who you use. All that changes is how many steps you take to get there. Rhino's best attributes are his simplicity, effectiveness, and modding variety. It may be good for newer learning players to get through the game easy, but if you think that's the extent of rhino, you are sadly mistaken. You've barely scratched the surface.  His simplicity means he has so much variety in how to play him, it's hard to choose. Most people settle on one way to play a frame and grow the belief that their playstyle defines the frame's essence.  This has been a trend that more complex frames have turned the game into. Most of the more complex frames have so much work put into them and so many step done to only do one thing. Granted, that the one thing they do, they do well, but it's still just one. Rhino on the other hand has such simplicity in his kit, that his playstyle is super malleable. Ironclad Shrapnel Nuke, Ironclad Skin tank, stomp map freeze cc god, damage buff king, speed build. Enemy debuff build, Etc. And there's so many tactics and ways to play him with each one of those builds. That's great for vets who need an all rounder frame. Rhino can do it all and can do every role equally well. There's never a team that won't accept a good rhino user.

Gonna let that sink in

You're describing what im saying is his downfall. You can only use 4 of his abilities when modded for either specified one, and only will augments make him that much better. He isn't where he should be, and whether or not he needs a complete rework, he does need some changes. I believe that Rhino should feel heavier, and be reworked to better fulfill his metier. Rhino should have abilities that flow together, but at the same time not making his other skills obsolete, this is his problem. My solutions, whether more complicated or not make him, in my opinion, a more enjoyable frame to play, instead spamming several abilties. I think a visual overhaul would also be a very nice touch

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 hour ago, Insidiatorii said:

You're describing what im saying is his downfall. You can only use 4 of his abilities when modded for either specified one, and only will augments make him that much better. He isn't where he should be, and whether or not he needs a complete rework, he does need some changes. I believe that Rhino should feel heavier, and be reworked to better fulfill his metier. Rhino should have abilities that flow together, but at the same time not making his other skills obsolete, this is his problem. My solutions, whether more complicated or not make him, in my opinion, a more enjoyable frame to play, instead spamming several abilties. I think a visual overhaul would also be a very nice touch

No, you are not getting my point. I'm saying that unlike other frames, you DON'T have to mod for just one ability. He's SOOOO versatile. He can do multiple roles well without augments at endgame levels. Augments only serve to unlock the ability to MAXIMIZE two aspects of the main man, a feature that not many warframes are able to do. More complex frames like Oberon can be built for renewal, reckoning, smite, or hallowed ground. but you can never really maximize more than 1 or 2 aspects of him. I don't see anybody complaining about Despoil becoming almost mandatory for Nekros, or Shield of Shadows for tanky nekros. Some augments just simply make frames better. A max range build is both a good travelling  build, good long distance damage buffer, and an amazing CC build, and requires no augments. Ironclad Charge built Rhino with high power strength can both do high damage with stomp (4.4k per enemy with Roar and Stomp Together), can tank anything, and I mean ANYTHING, and will give your allies a huge damage buff. Combine THAT exact build with Iron Shrapnel and you just added a damage cap reaching nuke. I have screenshots.that I will post soon if you'd like. If that's not enough, a high duration, high strength build with no augments can be an amazing CC ability with long term high damage boost and decent survivability. There's so much you can use him for.

Edited August 23, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044

[RubAxy]

On 21.07.2017 at 0:18 AM, Demiax said:

... Charge goes in a straight line, so hitting the enemies you want to, without wasting energy, doesnt always happen. My revision just makes it easier to aim. If youre worried about the escapeability of my revision, why don't you propose an idea to improve it? ... Charge is not pleasing to use at all, imo. It's just a dumbed down slash dash...

... Iron Skins augment needs to be integrated into the ability itself. I was playing on a sortie against physically enhanced corpus who, a few rounds later, began to completey destroy my Iron Skin, and killing me before I could reactivate it...

...  The problem here is that people don't want Rhino to be changed too drastically... 

Your revision of Charge only makes it easier to aim, that's all good in it. You need proposition, ok - Split current Charge into 3 consecutive (1/3 attack length for each) Charges, 2nd and 3rd will change direction to where you looking. Maybe adding ability to launch yourself into air like Ex and rushing down with it. Or adding bigger DMG multiplier, or adding charging for it like in Hydroid now. Or combination of those ideas. I don't need changes for this skill, but I think mine, made for 10 min, saving the core ability and adding smth new. 

About Iron Skin, it only needs 1sec invulnerability after depleting, and maybe *cracking* sound effect to notify you about it. No additional effects without augment needed. 

And why people should want to completely change his abilities if they like them? Some tweak maybe, but not changing. 

And, for the love of Lotus, "Heaviest frame"  doesn't necessary mean "Tankiest"!  Rhino is versatile frame whose straight abilities make Heavy impact on his foes,  with throwing foes like playing bowling  and "stomping time" when needed. 

P.S - And your passive ability variant no better than Vauban's) but better than current one)) 

Edited August 23, 2017 by RubAxy

[Insidiatorii]

On 8/23/2017 at 5:57 AM, RubAxy said:

Your revision of Charge only makes it easier to aim, that's all good in it. You need proposition, ok - Split current Charge into 3 consecutive (1/3 attack length for each) Charges, 2nd and 3rd will change direction to where you looking. Maybe adding ability to launch yourself into air like Ex and rushing down with it. Or adding bigger DMG multiplier, or adding charging for it like in Hydroid now. Or combination of those ideas. I don't need changes for this skill, but I think mine, made for 10 min, saving the core ability and adding smth new. 

About Iron Skin, it only needs 1sec invulnerability after depleting, and maybe *cracking* sound effect to notify you about it. No additional effects without augment needed. 

And why people should want to completely change his abilities if they like them? Some tweak maybe, but not changing. 

And, for the love of Lotus, "Heaviest frame"  doesn't necessary mean "Tankiest"!  Rhino is versatile frame whose straight abilities make Heavy impact on his foes,  with throwing foes like playing bowling  and "stomping time" when needed. 

P.S - And your passive ability variant no better than Vauban's) but better than current one)) 

His passive is still better than what he has now...

[(PSN)Crixus044]

21 hours ago, Insidiatorii said:

His passive is still better than what he has now...

Not really. Heavy Impact when it use to work was amazing, it just needs to work like it used to. Just improve heavy impact to work like the shockwave moa slam and it would be an amazing passive. No need to rip off vauban.

Edited August 25, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Insidiatorii]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Not really. Heavy Impact when it use to work was amazing, it just needs to work like it used to. Just improve heavy impact to work like the shockwave moa slam and it would be an amazing passive. No need to rip off vauban.

Then maybe you need to consider swapping Vaubans and Rhinos passives.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

12 hours ago, Insidiatorii said:

Then maybe you need to consider swapping Vaubans and Rhinos passives.

No. Heavy impact fits rhino well. Vauban's passive should just be allied based and not just for vauban.

[Insidiatorii]

On 8/26/2017 at 11:28 AM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

No. Heavy impact fits rhino well. Vauban's passive should just be allied based and not just for vauban.

Heavy impact is not  reliable passive. He needs something stronger. Perhaps a buff to Heavy Impact would be sufficient enough, such as a longer range and longer knockdown duration.

[Insidiatorii]

On 7/19/2017 at 12:49 AM, Calvyr said:

I play Rhino a fair amount, easily one of my favourite frames and I have to say that I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with him. Any of the "problems" you mentioned are fixed with augments to his abilities or are simply good for balance. His survivablity scales ridiculously high when you use Ironclad Charge and build for armour and power strength, not to mention that Iron Skin grants immunity from status effects. There is already an augment to allow him to shed his Iron Skin (which I use in conjunction with Ironclad Charge). His stomp is one of the better CC abilities in the game. and the augment for that ability (Reinforcing Stomp) can also be surprisingly useful for keeping Iron Skin topped up, especially when you build for range and efficiency.Roar is a straight up buff to squadmates, which is also very useful.

In short, there's nothing wrong with Rhino or his abilities, they don't need to be changed.

Plenty of other frames do not require augments. Rhino, in contrast, does. Due to this, he needs to be fixed, and easily so by integrating his augments into his abilities. This is a video game, people get payed to come up with new ideas. Coming up with a few new augment ideas for Rhino, after the current ones are integrated, would not be such a difficult task.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Do people forget rhinos ability snergy? Enemies frozen by stomp get 100% extra charge damage. Enemies charged while IS is active take a blast proc. So besides his obvious ability combos, you can deal insane amounts of damage with these synergies 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

5 hours ago, Insidiatorii said:

Heavy impact is not  reliable passive. He needs something stronger. Perhaps a buff to Heavy Impact would be sufficient enough, such as a longer range and longer knockdown duration.

Exactly what I said in a previous post. Heavy Impact's effect is what needs to be improved, not the passive itself; the heavy impact passive ability doesn't need to be changed to a knockoff Vauban.

[TheBrsrkr]

 Sure is summer in here.... 

Firstly, no on that armor level. No. 710 and 850 armor is ridiculous for a frame you can get as early as Rhino. Second, that passive is an active. I know the current passive sucks, but it's still a passive. Buffing the armor of people around you is an ability. 

Rhino charge, no. It's mobility is a part of what Rhino is. Making it slow is making an already slow frame slower, never a good thing. Instead, you can have that knockdown thing while he's waking along the path of the charge, widening it's effective cone. Achieves the same result. 

Iron Skin, still no. Speed reduction on any frame is a bad thing because the game's pacing does not suit it. I understand what you're going for, but it just isn't going to work. The invulnerability phase is also too long for a self buff. 

Roar....... eh. Roar needs to be something other than just a boring buff. You just added more thing s it buffs. Mix it up a little. Also that attack speed thing makes no sense,because it's gonna stack with Brsrkr and make the melee scene insane again. 

Stomp, definitely a no from me. We don't need any more damage buffs, thanks. The terrify thing is also encroaching on Nekros Territory. 

[Insidiatorii]

21 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

 Sure is summer in here.... 

Firstly, no on that armor level. No. 710 and 850 armor is ridiculous for a frame you can get as early as Rhino. Second, that passive is an active. I know the current passive sucks, but it's still a passive. Buffing the armor of people around you is an ability. 

Rhino charge, no. It's mobility is a part of what Rhino is. Making it slow is making an already slow frame slower, never a good thing. Instead, you can have that knockdown thing while he's waking along the path of the charge, widening it's effective cone. Achieves the same result. 

Iron Skin, still no. Speed reduction on any frame is a bad thing because the game's pacing does not suit it. I understand what you're going for, but it just isn't going to work. The invulnerability phase is also too long for a self buff. 

Roar....... eh. Roar needs to be something other than just a boring buff. You just added more thing s it buffs. Mix it up a little. Also that attack speed thing makes no sense,because it's gonna stack with Brsrkr and make the melee scene insane again. 

Stomp, definitely a no from me. We don't need any more damage buffs, thanks. The terrify thing is also encroaching on Nekros Territory. 

I disagree on all of your points here. For one, his armor level SHOULD be that high. It should not be higher than Valkyr's. For a frame you can get as early as Rhino? That's completely irrelevant. You can get ANY frame early. This new Rhino Charge would be stronger, and would not limit mobility, it would make it better. Being able to move in more directions is literally an increase in mobility. Here is the definition of mobility "the ability to move or be moved freely and easily." As for a "slow frame" Rhino is one of the fastest, so that is also irrelevant. You contradict yourself in your 3rd argument, considering how "it wouldn't work" because the game is too fast-paced, than a sufficient invulnerability buff will balance the decreased mobility. As for Roar... it's a buff skill... that's how it should stay... Encroaching on Nekros? Thats interesting, considering so many frames already have abilities that resemble each other... contradiction.

[TheBrsrkr]

46 minutes ago, Insidiatorii said:

I disagree on all of your points here. For one, his armor level SHOULD be that high. It should not be higher than Valkyr's. 

Based on what? You want Rhino to have the highest shields in the game, the third most health if you exclude the frames with ONLY health, and the third highest base armor in the game, aside form a frame that goes literally invincible and another frame with no shields? No. It should be that high because what, he's the heaviest warframe? Not a good enough reason. Because all the others have more? Still not a good enough reason. Because it doesn't represent his heaviness anymore, since Excalibur has more than him? Sure. More armor isn't something I have a problem with, it's the ridiculous number you put out. 

 

58 minutes ago, Insidiatorii said:

. For a frame you can get as early as Rhino? That's completely irrelevant. You can get ANY frame early. 

But you can't USE any frame like that early, because new players don't have any good mods, and the mods they do have SUCK. That doesn't matter to Rhino, because his base health, base shields and base iron skin health give a new player way more room to make mistakes than any other frame they'll have access to. You're going to make many frames irrelevant to new players with that change. Because they're new. They don't know any better. 

 

1 hour ago, Insidiatorii said:

. This new Rhino Charge would be stronger, and would not limit mobility, it would make it better. Being able to move in more directions is literally an increase in mobility. Here is the definition of mobility "the ability to move or be moved freely and easily." 

Don't be ridiculous. It doesn't matter how many directions you can move in if you're too slow to take advantage of it. Try this yourself. Run from one enemy to another, just run, no bullet jump or anything. Now reduce that speed by 20% and tell me it wouldn't be better to just shoot them. In your definition you added "freely" but you removed "easily". 

 

1 hour ago, Insidiatorii said:

." As for a "slow frame" Rhino is one of the fastest, so that is also irrelevant. 

The only other frame with the same speed of 0.9 is frost. What are you even talking about? Literally every other frame in the game is either at equal speed or faster than Rhino PRIME. What are you even talking about, the Arcane Helmet no one can get anymore? 

 

1 hour ago, Insidiatorii said:

. You contradict yourself in your 3rd argument, considering how "it wouldn't work" because the game is too fast-paced, than a sufficient invulnerability buff will balance the decreased mobility. 

Consider revising this sentence, it makes no sense. What I assume you're talking about is me saying that the invulnerability being too long for a self buff contradicts me saying slowing down Rhino even more is bad. To which I say, so? Two things can be wrong with a suggestion at once for different reasons. The self buff is too long, AND Rhino doesn't need to be any slower. 

 

1 hour ago, Insidiatorii said:

Thats interesting, considering so many frames already have abilities that resemble each other... contradiction.

There is no frame in the game that literally copies another frame's abilities. Except your suggestion. You want Roar to be Terrify that also buffs your allies. Which means Terrify itself is now weaker than Roar because Roar does the EXACT SAME THING with something else attached to it. 

[TheOniStixx]

I don't like the Rhino Charge change because it seems like your giving him an Exalted form (i.e. Hysteria, Exalted Blade) on his first ability. Preferably I would want something like Atlas's first ability, but Atlas has reserved rights to casting Fist. Maybe he could be given something like a jump smash.

[KnightCole]

Id love Rhino to get the same kind of cool rework that makes Oberon so much fun.  Oberon isnt the 'press 2 for god mode', where only 1 ability is worth anything. 

Oberon gets 1 for an AOE knockdown and damage, 2 for damage, area denial, buffs his 3 for healing and 4 for AoE damage and armor stripped.  All his abilities are useful in their own right.  Not out right ez street like Ember P, press 4 and go watch TV, but a hellva lot more useful and fun overall then Rhino, who gets alot of.....whats the word?  "Crowd Control", which basically translates to 0 dmg just stun stuff....very boring frame to play.  Yes, I played him 53% of my time in WF, but yeah, hes very boring overall with low utility.  Not a good team player, not that deadly......just good for EZ Street, Press 2 for godmode.

Ob p has fully replaced my Rhino....though ive got ALOT of hours to unseat Rhino P...

[(PSN)Crixus044]

3 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Id love Rhino to get the same kind of cool rework that makes Oberon so much fun.  Oberon isnt the 'press 2 for god mode', where only 1 ability is worth anything. 

Oberon gets 1 for an AOE knockdown and damage, 2 for damage, area denial, buffs his 3 for healing and 4 for AoE damage and armor stripped.  All his abilities are useful in their own right.  Not out right ez street like Ember P, press 4 and go watch TV, but a hellva lot more useful and fun overall then Rhino, who gets alot of.....whats the word?  "Crowd Control", which basically translates to 0 dmg just stun stuff....very boring frame to play.  Yes, I played him 53% of my time in WF, but yeah, hes very boring overall with low utility.  Not a good team player, not that deadly......just good for EZ Street, Press 2 for godmode.

Ob p has fully replaced my Rhino....though ive got ALOT of hours to unseat Rhino P...

Boring? No utility? No damage? We area talking about the same rhino right? Roar literally buffs everything on rhino and allies, including abilities and weapons. His is the only ability that does this. His Ult literally stops enemies in their tracks around him, without interruption from line of sight, AND ignores cc immunity. He has the ultimate tank ability apart from invulnerability, and he has an amazing mobility tool that does decent damage. How is this boring? Because it doesn't nuke everything?

Ember more useful than rhino? You've got to be kidding me. Stop playing beginner missions, learn how to build and play the frame, and then speak your peace. I can respect your opinion, but your's is obviously.... not developed enough yet.

[KnightCole]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Boring? No utility? No damage? We area talking about the same rhino right? Roar literally buffs everything on rhino and allies, including abilities and weapons. His is the only ability that does this. His Ult literally stops enemies in their tracks around him, without interruption from line of sight, AND ignores cc immunity. He has the ultimate tank ability apart from invulnerability, and he has an amazing mobility tool that does decent damage. How is this boring? Because it doesn't nuke everything?

Ember more useful than rhino? You've got to be kidding me. Stop playing beginner missions, learn how to build and play the frame, and then speak your peace. I can respect your opinion, but your's is obviously.... not developed enough yet.

Yes, we are talking of the same Rhino.  As for the toughest thing ive played was Sorties.  Ive fought Kela and the top grade mission for her tokens or w/e....

I feel Rhino is boring because all his skills arent worth the energy costs.  100 for his 4....its a skill that is worth maybe 50 energy.  His 1 ability should be like 10 and his 3, make it last like 1 minute by default and it'd be ok. 

I save my energy for Iron Skin, about the main thing hes good for is Iron Skin and mowing down stuff. 

Oberon, I find he basically does everything my Rhino does, but with the ability to actually deal damage and kill stuff with his abilities. 

Change Rhino's skills to Blast initial, then puncture so it deals a little more damage.  Change his 1 to Puncture so it does more damage...yeah, I find him boring cuz he cant kill S#&$ with his abilities.  His 4 is good for reviving buddies and maybe buying you a few seconds if your Defense is over run...

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 10/25/2017 at 11:56 PM, KnightCole said:

Yes, we are talking of the same Rhino.  As for the toughest thing ive played was Sorties.  Ive fought Kela and the top grade mission for her tokens or w/e....

I feel Rhino is boring because all his skills arent worth the energy costs.  100 for his 4....its a skill that is worth maybe 50 energy.  His 1 ability should be like 10 and his 3, make it last like 1 minute by default and it'd be ok. 

I save my energy for Iron Skin, about the main thing hes good for is Iron Skin and mowing down stuff. 

Oberon, I find he basically does everything my Rhino does, but with the ability to actually deal damage and kill stuff with his abilities. 

Change Rhino's skills to Blast initial, then puncture so it deals a little more damage.  Change his 1 to Puncture so it does more damage...yeah, I find him boring cuz he cant kill S#&$ with his abilities.  His 4 is good for reviving buddies and maybe buying you a few seconds if your Defense is over run...

I find this totally incorrect, and I don't mean to sound like a #$&(%, but I just don't think you're using rhino to the best of his abilities. Why do you want his abilities to do the killing? That's the job of the dps frame. That's what you have weapons for. If rhino was able to kill everything in sight with his stomp, tank a boat load of damage, and stop everything in their tracks, then you're just asking for overpowered. Maybe you're just not a tank player. You like damage warframes, and that's perfectly fine, but don't go around claiming rhino is useless. If you think oberon can tank as much damage as rhino, you got another thing coming mister. Oberon's EHp with a hefty PS build AND double power strength buff from axi relic gives him a max of 9k EHp/double with Phoenix Renewal Augment. This of course will be fine in the lower levels I suspect you play, but once you reach the higher levels, you'll be 2 shotted in an MoT by a shotgun crewman. This is where rhino shows his true prowess. He can on average get a casual 50k on an iron skin. And unlike oberon, he can regain energy from anything while he's tanking damage, which oberon requires energy orbs and rage to maintain sustainability.

Also think of this. Oberon's reckoning is only an instant stun with radiation proc, that can be negated by ancients, who can grant knockdown immunity to enemies, but his damage isn't just radiation. Half is impact, which is the worst damage type in game for dealing damage. And reckoning is only 15m, while rhino stomp is 25m, thus able to cover an entire map with a good cc build. Rhino with Stomp+Roar and an intensify mod (low ball PS build)= 1040*1.65, which is 1716 damage.  Reckoning with Intensify is 1625 damage. now if you cast 2 reckonings and assume that there's no ancients around (best case scenario since radiated enemies take an extra 50% damage but ancients negate status effects), then you'll get a total damage of 4062.5 in a 15m radius for 200 energy. With rhino and the same scenario, you get 3432 damage in a 25m radius. Now you might be saying that because oberon's damage was higher, that it was better, but remember, that ancients destroy this method and destroy reckoning's entire effect, while rhino stomp is unaffected by these enemies (this is a rare commodity in warframe today). Also, rhino affects 2/3 more of the enemies, so you could say that he affects at least 1.5x the number of enemies, which carries his damage far over that of reckoning for only 75 more energy. Also, little known fact, enemies that rhino touches take double the rhino stomp damage.

Energy economy on rhino is much better since he can regain energy from EV, harrow, or energy over time effects. Oberon can not, also, his iron skin makes him immune to magnetic procs, which destroy energy gain, or slash procs that ignore armor.

With a max range build on rhino stomp, I can lockdown an entire LoR raid, especially the second and third phase. With 63m range, nobody gets a shot in, being suspended in the air for 10 seconds or being on the ground. Rhino is a control freak. He can take any shot you throw at him, and he will make sure no enemy, whether in LoS or not, no matter what buff they have, they will never get through his defense radius. Of course, I'm an endurance runner, so I can appreciate his skills and how they play in the higher 300+ levels. In the lower levels, frame choice is much more diverse, thus if oberon fits the bill for you, have at it. Just know that when the time comes for a level 500 mission (When DE gets smart and realizes that level 100 is too easy for vets), you'll be asking for a rhino.

[Djego27]

On 20.7.2017 at 1:39 AM, Demiax said:

I'm sorry, but he isnt as good as many other frames. His damage is low, his defense is low (without augments), and there is no need for him to be a fast frame. As for your point on people clearing out rooms, people do that anyway, so...? This post is to make Rhino the buff/tank frame, what he should be. Additionally, Rhino could gain enhanced charging speed with every enemy hit.

While it is a bit older, I have to disagree, same as I did disagree with some of our "meta" vents here on the forums earlier this year telling new players, with a straight face, they pull next to no weight with a Rino and her low MR non meta weapons(what is plain nonsense).

This is L80 extra IPS damage sorti interception solo with Rino and a Tiberion(that has no crit or status, I used it because it was my first weapon I used a catalyst on). This is not even hard, it just highlights how much more effective Rino is when you use stomp and roar. Now compared that the rino I rezed like 5 times last week in a L80 extra IPS damage sorti survival with my Ember that used exactly 0 roar and 0 stomps during the full 10 minutes.

On 20.7.2017 at 11:18 PM, Demiax said:

I was playing on a sortie against physically enhanced corpus who, a few rounds later, began to completey destroy my Iron Skin, and killing me before I could reactivate it, I used all of my revives on that sortie mission, and i'm an experienced player, but theres no way to survive with Rhino (in those circumstances) when cornered by 25 Moas blasting you all at once.

The question would be if a experienced player like yourself could have fixed this problem by pressing the button with a 4 on it on your keyboard? I for myself never did run into that problem with Rino, given that I mostly play frames that not even have such a 4, not even speaking about the lack of another 4k HP that you just can recast if you add Iron Shrapnel. What you should, given that proper control over your tank is key to play a tank in any kind of online game.

If I could change something on Rino, I would add the ability to blow up Iron skin into the ability itself. Iron Skin should give Rino full agro to everything in the area so you can actually utilize if for point defence(excavation, mobile defence, defence) much more effective. Iron Shrapnel should be changed that everything in range(team mates and defence targets) that get hit by iron shrapnel gain as much iron skin like ferrite armor as points are missing from the current value of iron skin to the cap till you lose or blow up iron skin again, so good control over your tank does not only keep you but also other players and the objective alive. In essence, the thing what makes playing a tank interesting in the first place in other games.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Djego27

[KnightCole]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I find this totally incorrect, and I don't mean to sound like a #$&(%, but I just don't think you're using rhino to the best of his abilities. Why do you want his abilities to do the killing? That's the job of the dps frame. That's what you have weapons for. If rhino was able to kill everything in sight with his stomp, tank a boat load of damage, and stop everything in their tracks, then you're just asking for overpowered. Maybe you're just not a tank player. You like damage warframes, and that's perfectly fine, but don't go around claiming rhino is useless. If you think oberon can tank as much damage as rhino, you got another thing coming mister. Oberon's EHp with a hefty PS build AND double power strength buff from axi relic gives him a max of 9k EHp/double with Phoenix Renewal Augment. This of course will be fine in the lower levels I suspect you play, but once you reach the higher levels, you'll be 2 shotted in an MoT by a shotgun crewman. This is where rhino shows his true prowess. He can on average get a casual 50k on an iron skin. And unlike oberon, he can regain energy from anything while he's tanking damage, which oberon requires energy orbs and rage to maintain sustainability.

Also think of this. Oberon's reckoning is only an instant stun with radiation proc, that can be negated by ancients, who can grant knockdown immunity to enemies, but his damage isn't just radiation. Half is impact, which is the worst damage type in game for dealing damage. And reckoning is only 15m, while rhino stomp is 25m, thus able to cover an entire map with a good cc build. Rhino with Stomp+Roar and an intensify mod (low ball PS build)= 1040*1.65, which is 1716 damage.  Reckoning with Intensify is 1625 damage. now if you cast 2 reckonings and assume that there's no ancients around (best case scenario since radiated enemies take an extra 50% damage but ancients negate status effects), then you'll get a total damage of 4062.5 in a 15m radius for 200 energy. With rhino and the same scenario, you get 3432 damage in a 25m radius. Now you might be saying that because oberon's damage was higher, that it was better, but remember, that ancients destroy this method and destroy reckoning's entire effect, while rhino stomp is unaffected by these enemies (this is a rare commodity in warframe today). Also, rhino affects 2/3 more of the enemies, so you could say that he affects at least 1.5x the number of enemies, which carries his damage far over that of reckoning for only 75 more energy. Also, little known fact, enemies that rhino touches take double the rhino stomp damage.

Energy economy on rhino is much better since he can regain energy from EV, harrow, or energy over time effects. Oberon can not, also, his iron skin makes him immune to magnetic procs, which destroy energy gain, or slash procs that ignore armor.

With a max range build on rhino stomp, I can lockdown an entire LoR raid, especially the second and third phase. With 63m range, nobody gets a shot in, being suspended in the air for 10 seconds or being on the ground. Rhino is a control freak. He can take any shot you throw at him, and he will make sure no enemy, whether in LoS or not, no matter what buff they have, they will never get through his defense radius. Of course, I'm an endurance runner, so I can appreciate his skills and how they play in the higher 300+ levels. In the lower levels, frame choice is much more diverse, thus if oberon fits the bill for you, have at it. Just know that when the time comes for a level 500 mission (When DE gets smart and realizes that level 100 is too easy for vets), you'll be asking for a rhino.

And how do you manage to get amazing range, amazing eff, amazing str and amazing everything without losing out on any of the abilities? 

I run my Rhino with like 254% Pwr str, but he loses alot of duration due to Transient or w/e those mods are, and even with as much armor as I could find, only has like I think 7000 armor with IS.  I took Rhino into some Sorties and...he was basically 3 shot, 1 for each IS, Shield, Health..... On that note though, I did have RHino in at 99 minutes on Ophelia Uranus survival and only got downed a few times.  Like ive said, RHino is good for press 2 for god mode, and the ignoring knockdowns and all those debuffs, oh how I loved that about Rhino.  Its why I played him ALOT, it just got boring not having any skills that didnt just knock the enemies around like bowling pins.  If my weapons didnt work, Rhino couldnt kill S#&$....  

Yeah, I dont play much beyond lvl 50, so, yeah, no uber god tier stuff.  On what frames I like?  I like frames, guns or any object in a game that can do more then 1 trick.  I prefer tankier, tougher, more versatile type frames, that can do a decent amount of damage, to where everything doesnt have to be done with my gun.  So, like when my gun is low on ammo, or im reloading or something, I can fall back on my skills to take out some stuff, to build up ammo again.  

Rhino is the Everquest 1 Warrior, kick, bash, melee, but thats it.  Oberon is definitely the Paladin/SK everything the Warrior can do, but with tons of utility.    

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by KnightCole

[(PSN)Crixus044]

6 hours ago, KnightCole said:

And how do you manage to get amazing range, amazing eff, amazing str and amazing everything without losing out on any of the abilities? 

I run my Rhino with like 254% Pwr str, but he loses alot of duration due to Transient or w/e those mods are, and even with as much armor as I could find, only has like I think 7000 armor with IS.  I took Rhino into some Sorties and...he was basically 3 shot, 1 for each IS, Shield, Health..... On that note though, I did have RHino in at 99 minutes on Ophelia Uranus survival and only got downed a few times.  Like ive said, RHino is good for press 2 for god mode, and the ignoring knockdowns and all those debuffs, oh how I loved that about Rhino.  Its why I played him ALOT, it just got boring not having any skills that didnt just knock the enemies around like bowling pins.  If my weapons didnt work, Rhino couldnt kill S#&$....  

Yeah, I dont play much beyond lvl 50, so, yeah, no uber god tier stuff.  On what frames I like?  I like frames, guns or any object in a game that can do more then 1 trick.  I prefer tankier, tougher, more versatile type frames, that can do a decent amount of damage, to where everything doesnt have to be done with my gun.  So, like when my gun is low on ammo, or im reloading or something, I can fall back on my skills to take out some stuff, to build up ammo again.  

Rhino is the Everquest 1 Warrior, kick, bash, melee, but thats it.  Oberon is definitely the Paladin/SK everything the Warrior can do, but with tons of utility.    

 

I'm telling ya, Oberon will not last. You're trying to be a tank rhino and you don't even use ironclad charge? I get 100k iron skin with that thing on a small cluster of enemies. Nothing takes me down. Nothing. You wanna have good everything, how about a tank ability that you only need to cast once after gathering up a few enemies? After that you're golden. Level 50 is a crockpot for my rhino. I don't like to give out builds, but i honestly feel bad for ya dude, so I'm gonna give you a balanced build that can do a little of everything. Growing Power/Steel Charge, Power Drift, Intensify, Transient Fortitude, Steel Fiber, Ironclad Charge, Stretch, Primed Continuity, Fleeting Expertise (R4), Streamline. It does a little of everything. When your skin drops to 5 or less, charge into enemies. Rhino charge makes you invulnerable for the 1 second charge, but your iron skin still takes damage, thus the enemies can safely deplete your ironskin without you taking damage. After your charge, you most likely could hit up to 5 enemies in a random charge. That's 500% your total armor, which adds at least 10k to your iron skin. that's more ehp than Oberon would ever have. EVER. You have a cheap 25 energy stomp that lasts 6 seconds (5 seconds more than reckoning with double the range and guaranteed consistency), an extremely cheap damage doubler for abilities AND weapons for you and your squad that last for 24 seconds a cast, and a good mobility tool. It's a simple build, but nothing more than what you need, and it's fun.

One thing you must learn, weapon damage will always out-do ability damage, even an equinox, who can reach damage cap, is limited to damage cap, weapons are not.  Rhino's roar double dips in slash proc bonuses and triple dips in gas proc bonuses. You'll be doing plenty of damage with your weapons with a rhino.

If that doesn't wet your whistle, then it's best you move on to chroma or wukong.

Edited October 28, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Doforcash]

i have problem with his 1st skill.

2nd skill isn't that bad, is just that Chorma, Iranos, Limbo, Zephy exits, therefore making the skill somewhat weak by comperasing

3rd skill and 4th skill are fine at it's, though i won't mind his 3rd skill have another round of buff (sponsor by DE)

overall good, solid, easy to catch up for newb who wanna be Superman but freak out everytime enemy break they shield

 

but hey atleast he's not Frost 

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Doforcash