Solo Is Now Dull , And Not Rewarding Enough . Get A Squad For A Far More Easy Game.

[dcSquark]

love the new maps styles

cyath on nightmare is the best zergfest

it could use more mobs, there was a few seconds when we were not killing 

pls fix that

[EirikAura]

Part of the problem is that new or mid level players now have a resource wall to face.

 

I didn't read the posts in detail but it runs something like this. Planet X has resources necessary to craft more powerful weapons. However, players who need the resources from Planet X aren't powerful enough to get there without doing reruns of the same beginner planets for a ridiculous amount of time.

This is exactly why there's a problem. Sure, if you've been playing the game since closed beta you're going to know all the missions, despite the 'random' mission generator, then soloing is going to be easy. Even if you start a new acct with no mods and base gear you have those hours of experience which new players won't have. You know the game, the weakspots, the loot needed for X or Y build - of course it feels easy to you!

 

Not everybody has those hundreds of hours in-game. Without new players the game WILL die and having the in game instructions so poor and the learning curve like the North Face of the Eiger along with the 'resource wall' mentioned by Destro6677 will only turn new players away.

 

It's all very well to say 'Get a squad dur!' but listen to the experiences of those who have just started. Squad play is ridiculous unless you go in with friends in a private session. Virtually every run you will end up in a mission scaled to their frames (most often maxed and modded) with enemies spawning all around you that are totally unable to kill with a Mk1 Brat at rank zero. This is pretty much what happened to our friend when he started playing. That was Terminus, the first mission. If we hadn't been able to show him around, play a few missions with him, he'd have quit. He's a hardcore gamer but like everyone he plays because it's fun, not to smash his head into a wall repeatedly!

[Chebarus]

After giving Update 9 some time, I have to agree with the OP 100%. Certain situations seem simply unwinnable in solo even with high-level frames and weapons. Regardless of how many mods you have, a group of 20 enemies spawning during a Rescue mission will separate you from the Hostage and will result in one of you dying. The obscenely large mobs, being able to spawn completely around you, have taken almost all of the fun out of Solo play.

[Azraill]

Certain situations seem simply unwinnable in solo even with high-level frames and weapons. Regardless of how many mods you have, a group of 20 enemies spawning during a Rescue mission will separate you from the Hostage and will result in one of you dying. The obscenely large mobs, being able to spawn completely around you, have taken almost all of the fun out of Solo play.

 

Simply not true. No situation is impossible with the right frame and right weapons. I hands down can agree the low level bits should be made easier for fresh into the game newcomers, I agree mid-game is a little more difficult than it might should be.

 

High end stuff however sits just right solo, can be solo'd with any frame with high tier weapons, or with the right frame and low teir weapons. Either or, don't even need both. It can vary, on a rescue mission your better off using a completely sub par frame with no abilities, low shields and health but high tier weaponry to clear the rooms quickly. My level 6 volt carried me through a level 50 Grineer mission, it wasn't easy, but hell it shouldn't have been.. my frame was level 6 for god sake. Two or three shots and it died. 

 

If your going into the 30*+* zone's with all your weapon gear 30 and with a cata you will not face a problem that can't be overcome with proper tactics. Any frame you bring so long as it carries redirection and fast deflection will do the rest for you, preferably, also being at level 30. Don't even need abilities, just enough shields to take a small bit of punishment doesn't matter what frame your taking with you.

 

Just the honest truth, I'm running on a fresh frame on Nyx level 1 to what is now level 16: with a Boltor level 1 to now 12, Akbolto level  1 to now15, Kagake level 1 to now 12 **NONE patato'd**) By no means am I going to level 30+ area's, I've gotten her to a level 50 boss room where she doesn't even belong solo just by chaosing the whole way there and headshotting anything else that took a shot at her, where she couldn't do any damage to the boss and lost.. That's my fault, not the games. She was where she didn't belong, and now is back at the proper level zones doing fine.

 

My Volt who since U9 has went from around level 1 to 22, and the only 'brick wall' he's faced is when I took him to places he didn't belong either, when sticking on planets his level, with those same weapons, does just fine yet I've also taken him solo to Phorid at low level and was a breeze.. as is any infested mission with Speed, and has taken on high level Grineer/Corpus missions with Shield holding the line. Proper frames carry you, and where they don't higher level weaponry will make up for it. 

Edited July 26, 2013 by Azraill

[fatpig84]

I have no issues surviving the mobs, it is the hostage can die and it forces you into very unfavourable scenarios.

 

To solo, I consider a Shade mandatory especially for rescue missions, because if the mobs corpse camp the hostage (infested), you will need to be able to revive him without triggering 20+ mobs. Or use that short window of time to use your abilities and kill em all.

 

Currently I consider rescue harder to solo than defense. For high level defense, I just slap on my best weapon and I can do up to 5 waves easily (resource running by breaking stuff).

Edited July 26, 2013 by fatpig84

[Habataki]

I'm always having problem solo-ing with those Defense and Mobile Defense missions (obviously, guarding something fragile alone ain't easy), but any other kinds are fine. Yes, it's harder than before, but I dare say it's not too hard to do it alone. In fact, this difficulty make me excite and keep myself alive with the game. You'll sometime get bored when you got almost everything in this game, trust me.

[CY13ERPUNK]

OP is clearly frustrated, but as far as i can tell, he is simply going into mission that are too difficult for him currently

other have already said it: PRO-TIP - go into lower level/difficulty missions until you are strong enough for the big boy stuff (or group)

pretty much every single complaint from the OP is horribly invalid/incorrect/illogical/wrong/fallacious

Edited July 26, 2013 by CY13ERPUNK

[Azraill]

Just finished a solo Tier III Capture > Level 23 Volt w/ High-Tier Dread, Despair, Glaive. 

 

Passed with ease, laughable, ease. I didn't take any of my own advice and just barrel rolled in like a idiot, died backing into a laser trap like a total beginner - and sadly one I knew was there, just kept backing up .. backing up.. "Oh yeah, those things hurt! Doh."

Considering I was lagging to death from Fraps, was being suicidal, and my accuracy was halved because of it, I'd say end-game is just fine:  will have the video uploaded in a few hours.

 

/thread on high end soloing anyway. 

 

Beginners I understand their frustrations, defense missions are insane, but this particular post is about general high-tier & end-game and thus regarding endgame. It's fine. Don't think so? Tell me how else to prove it. Win or lose I'll show the results.

[Xylia]

There is, Neurodes, Alloy plates, etc

 

EDIT: OHHH DAMN YOU RUBEDO!

 

.......except you don't have to go to Earth for Rubedo when you can find Rubedo on Pluto.

 

Alloy Plates? Instead of Venus, why don't you go to Pluto for that too?

 

OK, you want Neurodes? What about Eris?

 

There's nothing wrong with making the earlier planets lower level and keeping the high level planets the way they are. Mars/Saturn/Jupiter could have stayed low-level.

 

Uranus and Europa could have been the "Bridge Level" between Mars/Saturn/Jupiter and Sedna.

 

IMO, something like this:

 

Mercury: 1-6

Venus: 6-14

Earth: 14-20

Saturn: 20-25

Mars: 20-25

Jupiter: 20-25

Europa: 25-30

Sedna: 30-35

Uranus: 35-40

Eris: 40-50

Ceres: 50-60

Pluto: 60-70

 

This system would allow newbies to lowbies to mid-level players to farm all the materials they need with "meh" mods and weapons and not get their butts creamed by stuff they can't handle. The hardest thing would be the Control Modules, but 25-30 is way better than 35-45 it is right now.

 

If newbies could farm stuff a bit easier, then they could make things like Boltors, Boltos, etc that would help them get a leg up in higher level missions where armor starts getting ridiculous. Right now, very, very few weapons can be made without wandering into Lv30 areas. Not just touching Lv30 areas, but actually farming them for some time, as many weapons need 1k+ of materials that don't drop all that often.

 

With my system, Hardcores still get their Lv40-70 planets they can have fun in (well, ok, Eris is slightly lower in my model than current, not by so much that it'd make all that much difference).

 

If Hardcores want Materials, well, all of the materials also drop off of high level planets, too! With 1 exception: Neural Sensors.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Xylia

[SirNerdsAlot5]

 Fake challenge. a real challenge would be that you have your standard mooks coming in, and then a team of tacticaly thinking enemies show up, and surround and  thoroughly butt-rape you, with just 3-4 guys in the team. that`s challenge. there is no challenge that you`d have to think about in having seventy-bagillion dudes swarm-raping your &#! from every direction and angle. that, dear friend is just a bipolar option - die, or run back. rinse and repeat till you kill them all.

if any of you remember a level from the age-old classic "Half-life" where the female ninja assassins attacked you for the first time. that`s challenge. and there were only 3 of them...

 

Yea but  that's more like a mini boss fight. If you're having difficulty winning, guess what, your abilities are being challenged. In other words, it IS a challenge. Doesn't matter how it happens, that's what defines a challenge whether you agree or not.

[fatpig84]

Shifting Saturn back to a lower tier planet is a good idea.

Because of Orokin cells.

 

You need it in small quantities, but you still need it for weapons.

[Tsrintox]

I agree with op that there should be *fewer* enemies for solo play, but i think difficulty should be the same, but gameplay should feel more rewarding when the challenge is greater

In my opinion needs to be a rebuild in ai and an increase of enemy utility skills/more utility enemies. Mix things up to increase the difficulty, b.c some things happen when i face a zerg rush of enemies the way the game is currently set out(not set in any logical order and I contradict myself in some areas but here are some problems ive noticed):

1 fight in one room for god knows how long(this takes away from a level taking away the satisfaction of clearing a room/and makes it a tedious grind)

2 have the atmosphered killed by immersion breaking elements like enemies respawning in a room behind me when there were no doors.....

3 take cover, get bored try to leave room and get destroyed by another and endless wave of grineer/corpus

4 i get bored with high level load outs because its the same thing over and over

5 I dont want to try new loadouts because the impossibility of using un potatoed weapons LOW LEVEL weapons against a horde is boring and futile.

6 yes I could level up my weapons and frames progressively from mercury and I know this game is about being patient, but seriously again this gets very tedious with experience tweaks. I like to take my time, but not that much time....

7 lag

8 feels like im fighting an army of individuals in a tight space instead of an expansive empire's army and a powerful agency with high tech weaponry. I feel current mechanics work with infested.

Possible fixes. Make stealth possible, fix certain frames like mag, increase ai difficulty, reduce numbers, increase XP and credit gains in harder missions, dont need to make solo easier just more rewarding in terms of game play and character growth.

[Zoike]

watevr i say..... i forsee this arguement lasting a ridiculously long time, years maybe......

 

anyway i say just make soloing more rewarding, a little easier (try through less mobs first), and........i completely forgot my last point :l

(basically not everyone is a uber-hardcore good at all gamers obviously.... so i guess stop treating ppl as if everyone was equally skilled)

 

but yeah my stance on this is "watev :P........."

 

                                                                                                                GG

Edited July 26, 2013 by Zoike

[Loswaith]

Simply not true. No situation is impossible with the right frame and right weapons.   ...

While yes this is true, the issue though is new players may not have the right frame and weapons because of the planets they have access too. 

 

New players cant be expected to know what mods are in the game until they drop (this is good mind you as it can be a supprise), so they wont know that their weapons need futher moding.

 

Grinding realy should be only seen as an option in the latter half of the game, by then a player is invested in the game enough that the grind is an option.

Update 8 made a move away from that perception, though given how you could progress through the planets it wasnt a wall that could not be steped over.  Update 9, made that wall huge, you now need to grind from day one to not only get resources but mods, abet even rare mods, to simply progress at all. 

 

Your alternatives are to join open matches with almost no one joining your games (so forcing you to wait long times or do missions solo) and then when they do most are so over powered you feel useless or the game is so easy to be boring.  None of these realy make for players wanting to stick around without some investment in it.

 

Honestly by the sound of comments in forums that allot of players if they started now wouldn't play past the first week (myself included), and if you can put that doubt in current invested players minds, knowing the great aspects of the game, how is a new player going to react?

[Azraill]

Simply not true. No situation is impossible with the right frame and right weapons ... I hands down can agree the low level bits should be made easier for fresh into the game newcomers, I agree mid-game is a little more difficult than it might should be.

 

>Goes on to explain why end-game is fine.

 

While yes this is true, the issue though is new players may not have the right frame and weapons because of the planets they have access too. 

 

 

My post had nothing to do with new players, it reinforced new players might should have it easier along with mid-game territory. So don't know why you quoted me, then went on about new players. By the time your running the 30+ missions your able to grind levels, get new gear, ect. As 30+ is for those with reactor's and catalysts marking each gear slot.

[Destro6677]

My post had nothing to do with new players, it reinforced new players might should have it easier along with mid-game territory. So don't know why you quoted me, then went on about new players. By the time your running the 30+ missions your able to grind levels, get new gear, ect. As 30+ is for those with reactor's and catalysts marking each gear slot.

Azraill, I've brought this up in the past but I'm still hoping to see something definite about this.

 

Potatoes don't drop in game anywhere but from livestream or random alerts.

 

If we're going to need potatoes to advance to end game, why aren't they rare drops (rare like forma) on level 28'ish planets?

 

And as most veterans know, there is a big difference between a level 30 weapon, level 30 potatoed and level 30 potatoed + forma.

 

The difference in killing power is immense, and although it is possible to solo high level non-defense missions with level 30 unpotatoed and unformaed weapons, it is generally not advisable to do so unless you are just rushing through them. Which kinda takes away the fun of having a level 30 weapon.

 

I'm not saying that being able to kill Ambulas should be a cakewalk. But if just getting enough firepower to have the opportunity to fight him requires a potato, I'd like to see potatoes farmable in-game.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Destro6677

[Azraill]

 

Potatoes don't drop in game anywhere but from livestream or random alerts.

 

If we're going to need potatoes to advance to end game, why aren't they rare drops (rare like forma) on level 28'ish planets?

 

 

Heres the difference you need to look at though, and the answer to your question regarding patato's not in the loot table.

 

One potato ='s 30 points.

One Forma ='s between (on adverage, at high end..) 5 points. 4 Forma's in and your good. Hell, my Ash has 4 ;3

Edit: + Aura ='s 4-14 points and is a common enough-on-alerts drop. This I completely forgot to mention, and halves the requirement of Forma's, after 2 you should be able to sit your frame with everything. Though all a frame *really* needs is maxed redirection and fast deflection and it's solid for soloing, the weapons are the main factor. 

 

Your capable of getting your Warframe/Weapon to level "60" ('End Game' as it were.) sheerly from Forma's if you so choose. 

 

Personally, I've not spent a plat on any item in the game save cosmetics and have a Reactor & 2 formas in > Ash, Frost Prime, Volt, Nyx (0 forma), and Shade (0 forma). Catalyst & 2 formas in Paris, Dread, Kunai, Despair, Hate (1 forma), Glaive, Shade Pistol (0 forma and I know, silly.. did it ten minutes ago cause, I really wanted him 100% despite having 'should' have put it in Dethcube :P) and ... invested around I'd say.. 10 formas into my Dojo : so, while it is alot on timing, and not exactly pouring from every vent: they aren't impossible to get a set of by any means.

 

Tier II's are capable of being solo'd without a reactor or catalyst, so that's your place for farming for them. It hasn't ever felt 'to hard' - sometimes it has felt grindy but that's my own fault (and DE's) for me having chosen to pick Paris and Kunai as my mains, only to have Dread and Despair come out, only to have Paris Prime release and make me head desk and draw the line rather than re-doing the same thing a third time.

 

Truthfully all you need *at all* to solo Tier III's / anything but defense missions is this: 

Any frame with Redirection + Fast Deflection and preferably as allowed, other defensive mods. It becomes easier if you use your frame effectively too, but any frame with no abilities would be workable.

Kunai with 4 Forma's or a Catalyst + 2 formas, surely you can come up with that by the time your hitting void missions. 

High level (not even maxed required.) mods stacked inside it.

When you can get ahold of a Shade do so, don't worry about anything but his ability to stealth you & guardian for the shield reset if you do get low.

 

After that your golden to do whatever else you want, in getting everything else leveled. Of course Kunai can be replaced with a number of other high DPS weapons, Akbolto's would suit, Dual Afuris / Dual Vipers .. sniper rifle with proper mods, vandal if you got it but would require not just damage mods getting up in levels but a reload mod maxed - yet those are pretty easy to come by, Paris is fine provided you can do the same, high fire rate & reload so it can be a quick shot, anything really will work, just something that's going to kill an enemy in one go and be quick to have a second one lined up, Kunai's just a quick learning curve that's sure to do the job.

 

 

On another note.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e1t4c74XQE

 

The video I mentioned I'd upload regarding Tier III Soloing. Note my frame mods do not take advantage of redirection or fast deflection, the frame is level 23, and all my mods are directed toward my abilities which I only use at two points for no real reason, I wasn't even taking my own advice and taking cover after the first 30 seconds, I was just barrel rolling in and killing everything.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Azraill

[arch111]

Part of the problem is all the defence and mobile defence maps. There are just so many of them, and they block progress.

And while infested can be fun to play, they are zerg death traps at times if you are unlucky with the level/spawns.

 

Low levels are fine, but mid range gets challenging.

 

If stealth was a viable option, or if melee was more useful, it would help alot.

 

Jupiter 3d map, infested Defence Lvl 22. roadblock

Europa 2nd map, Corpus Defence Lvl 35. roadblock

 

If you are unlucky these, paired with a second objective makes life hard without good weapons. The wf powers can only do so much agains large numbers.

[Psychotoxin]

Well... This talk about getting mods and what not... Only recently did "streamline" stop existing as a mythical creature, in my perception, but became a factual thing by pure chance. Now I have put 400+ hours in the game and I still don't have a lot of the end-game required mods, and don't have enough cores/duplicates to level up the one have.

Also - it took me 70+ runs to finally get Embers first part (helm). And it was a nightre mode mission. Then I proceeded to get all the other parts in the next 2 runs, but only because I had help from very powerful and highly modded people. I myself am a patient man, and can spend hours on end doing rather tedious actions with a small chance of geting good results, but I know for a fact that not a lot of people would want to put up with the amounts of grind that are now an enforced requirement.

This is why I support the idea of leaving the big 4 as they are and lessening the grind and the tedious bullS#&$ that goes on in other planets.

Yet I don't understand why h-core players are so much against this change. FUN should be had by all players, no matter what's their setup, not hidden in a container behind 95256392 level 70+ corpus troops, for your masochistic pleasure...

[Chebarus]

On another note.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e1t4c74XQE

 

The video I mentioned I'd upload regarding Tier III Soloing. Note my frame mods do not take advantage of redirection or fast deflection, the frame is level 23, and all my mods are directed toward my abilities which I only use at two points for no real reason, I wasn't even taking my own advice and taking cover after the first 30 seconds, I was just barrel rolling in and killing everything.

Several things in that video confuse me. Mainly, why there are so few enemies, and why they stopped shooting at 3:40 when your health got low.

[Azraill]

Several things in that video confuse me. Mainly, why there are so few enemies, and why they stopped shooting at 3:40 when your health got low.

 

At 3:35-7 I'm being torn apart, at 3:39 I'm cloaked, 3:40 I'm stabbing a grunt in the back & at the same time my Sent just shot the MOA with a stun/freeze, and the last grunt (Edit: rewatched that part, last 2 grunts) in the back can't shoot through the closed door until it's to late.

 

As for spawns, hell if I know. It was a bit lax but nothing unusual for Soloing at a 'stable' speed. It's when you hold your ground or rush you get stuck with massive spawns, not that it would have made much of a difference really : I was screwing around massively and going in intentionally without mods I've recommended and a majority of the time not even with a mindset of real self preservation, just darting in and shooting everything without a second thought beyond 'don't stand right infront of them'

 

Can do another video, if I can get ahold of another Tier III and see if it was a fluke, but it's not the first time I've done it: Just the first time I've done it on a level 23 frame without proper mods.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Azraill

[Troublechutor]

-snip-

Liked and commented : 

 

Just like to point out you have fully modded/maxed everything, you got taken down to 33 health at one point (luck you didn't die there) and did need a revive.

I enjoyed the vid though, nicely done. Good music too. But I don't think taking out a frame with full max everything proves that the solo experience isn't god awful right now.

Also, that heavy-ground smash would have killed my loki... killed!

--------------

 

Your frame may not use all the points, but the cards/mods are all maxed.  I wish I had a rank 60 dread with max serration, my paris is rank 30 with about half serration and some elemental mods.  If I tried what you do in tha video, move for move, I'd have been pulped by the second room.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Troublechutor

[Azraill]

 

-snip-

 

 

OI, that revive was my own stupidity walking backwards into a beam trap xD Don't credit the difficulty of the mobs for that! :D

...

But yeah, this video was explicitly for end-gamers, and it not being impossible to solo once your up there. Naturally not everyone is going to have maxed weapon mods, which is where bringing a level 30 frame with redirection and fast deflection and proper tactics would come into play. I do (hope) to do another video of Nyx when I have her up to 30 w/  no abilities, but redirection/fast deflection + non-cata'd non-forma'd Boltor/Akbolto/Kagake : but that's an attempt for a couple weeks from now as leveling her is a slow trail as I'm semi-wrapped up in Borderlands 2 ;3

 

I'm all for low level/mid getting easier, but end game is hardly impossible to get into. It'll take some grinding for mods and such, specially to reach the level I'm at : but I wouldn't say it needs to get easier is all I hoped to prove. 

Edited July 26, 2013 by Azraill

[Troublechutor]

I'm all for low level/mid getting easier, but end game is hardly impossible to get into. It'll take some grinding for mods and such, specially to reach the level I'm at : but I wouldn't say it needs to get easier is all I hoped to prove. 

If end-gamers are complaining, I'm all for smacking them around.  I was solo-farming everything in UD8 with mid-game mods/gear.  It was clearly too easy for end-gamers.  What ever is out there now, I imagine it adds some dimension of difficulty for long time players, but for soloists without end-game gear, its seriously a pain to farm now... mission failures kill farm/grind sessions, and you cant farm/grind good mats/mods on levels that are still reliably solo-friendly.  I need to be in the void or on eris/pluto now, but those areas are no-go.

[BPoole]

I have done solo nightmare missions on Sedna and Pluto before. Yes, they are hard, but it's much more fun than playing other missions where I feel like I'm invincible and I'd literally have to be afk in order to die