New mission type: Swarm

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

So this new mission is called swarm. 

What does this mission consist of?

This mission type is the idea of taking a kind of large open style map and surviving hordes (legions) of enemies with a team or alone. The mission gets harder the longer a player stays in, increasing enemy level and enemy spawns.

What makes this different from a normal survival? 

In this mission there is more of a big open map with areas to hold out in(these can still be overrun). A player will only have limited lives( maybe 2 respawns) making it imperative that the team works together to survive. The enemies will spawn 2x that of what normally spawns after 40 mins of a survival. Thus it is a literal wall of enemies coming at you. These enemies are decently leveled too so it's not exactly easy.

How do rewards work?

A player will be rewarded for every five minutes spent in this game type. The rewards can range from credit caches, endo, relics, etc. 

Is this an OP farm for resources/credits/affinity/focus? 

No, because the drop rate for all of these can be controlled by DE. Plus one has to account for all the drops that come out of an enemy. Resources aren't the only drop out of an enemy. There is energy orbs, ammo, sometimes health orbs, and then there are credits and resources. Not every enemy a player kills will drop credits or resources. Plus the affinity earned from killing enemies can be limited again by DE. As for focus, that can be controlled too. 

What may be some downsides to this game type? 

The only negative downside is that if there are too many cpu, the Xbox processor wouldn't be able to process the gameplay fast enough. 

Why this would work.

The enemies would only be 2x the amount of normal enemy spawns in a normal survival, this is enough to make things challenging but not overload the Xbox processor. There would be a spawn cap to keep overspawning but the spawning and enemy level would be significant enough to provide a decent challenge. 

 

I'd like to see what everyone thinks so leave comments down below.

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by (XB1)Midnight Aether
Better description

[Moysa]

That description is literally survival. Play with more people in a room, and dont spread out across the entire map. You'll see more enemies.

The last time I did assur for polymer for example, I racked up a melee combo of over 2k

Edited August 10, 2017 by Moysa

[TheDemon117]

So while I personally would love this you would run into a couple of problems. The main two being with so many enemies it would be much easier to farm specific mods from enemies and that because of there being so many enemies it would also limit your weapons and frames to ones that can do aoe damage.

[xXDeadsinxX]

So...basically Survival without airsupport.

[Auranix]

Yeah as others have mentioned, this is basically a gimped version of survival with a new name. While it would be great for farming, there is already survival so I can't see this being implemented.

[BaIthazar]

a Horde mode is not really a good idea.

yes you get more affinity from strong enemies, making higher level missions better to level gear.
but in a horde mode even the weakests of enemies would max out your gear if you killed enough of them.

as mentioned by others noone would go anywhere else for affinity, mod, or resource farming.

AoE weapons and abilities would be all but required

[peterc3]

Survival minus any real risk. People routinely ask for it, doubt it would ever enter the game.

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

On 8/10/2017 at 0:12 PM, Moysa said:

That description is literally survival. Play with more people in a room, and dont spread out across the entire map. You'll see more enemies.

The last time I did assur for polymer for example, I racked up a melee combo of over 2k

This game type is completely different from survival. It spawns way more enemies than a survival ever could and it forces you to work as a team to stay alive, so you would have to stay close to your team anyways.

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

On 8/10/2017 at 0:14 PM, TheDemon117 said:

So while I personally would love this you would run into a couple of problems. The main two being with so many enemies it would be much easier to farm specific mods from enemies and that because of there being so many enemies it would also limit your weapons and frames to ones that can do aoe damage.

The drops in the game would be limited and controlled by DE. This would make it where it isn't way to easy to farm stuff on this game type. There are also more drops than just resources( energy orbs, health orbs, ammo). So it would be like any other mission. And as for AOE damage..... That is what most people are already using for things like survival and defense. Most frames and weapons are AOE based. So that wouldn't make anything different than it already is. Literally. 

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

On 8/10/2017 at 0:19 PM, Auranix said:

Yeah as others have mentioned, this is basically a gimped version of survival with a new name. While it would be great for farming, there is already survival so I can't see this being implemented.

This is nothing like survival at all. If you'd re read above then you'd realise that.

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

On 8/10/2017 at 1:22 PM, BaIthazar said:

a Horde mode is not really a good idea.

yes you get more affinity from strong enemies, making higher level missions better to level gear.
but in a horde mode even the weakests of enemies would max out your gear if you killed enough of them.

as mentioned by others noone would go anywhere else for affinity, mod, or resource farming.

AoE weapons and abilities would be all but required

And what game are you playing again? Last time I checked this game is basically hordes of enemies coming at you.  So dont say a horde mode is a bad idea. Its literally what this game is. My idea is just on a larger scale. 

And the drops on resources/focus/affinity would be controlled and moderated by DE. 

The enemies drops aren't just resources. There are energy orbs, health orbs, ammo. And if resources are controlled by DE then this game type is basically like any other mission just with an insane amount of enemies. Everything can be controlled. 

And as for AOE, most every frame and weapon is aoe based. Aoe is a large part of this game already. So yeah, obviously aoe would be a thing. 

So what's your next argument? I honestly want to know.

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

On 8/10/2017 at 1:54 PM, peterc3 said:

Survival minus any real risk. People routinely ask for it, doubt it would ever enter the game.

It's different from survival in that you only have 2 respawns and a insane amount of enemies coming at you all at once. The risk is failing the mission. It's all about how long a team can last. The drops are controlled by DE so it's not too good of a farm. It's more of a challenge game type. The enemy level is pretty significant also.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

No matter how you word this it's either going to be a better or worse survival.

If the drops are too common and the affinity gain too much (which with the amount of enemies you're suggesting it almost certainly would be) then it's just going to be an easier survival no matter how many enemies you toss at the players. Also remember that AoE weapons and skills exist, and would render the number of enemies moot. However if the resource drop rate is too rare and the amount of affinity you get too slow in relation to the amount of enemies then it's just not worth doing it, and you'd be better off doing survival.

There's no nice way to implement this mission without either rendering survival pointless or making this mission pointless, as all it is is just survival without life support, more enemies (which equals more loot no matter how you look at it) and limited respawns.

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

3 minutes ago, Ninjaboy00 said:

No matter how you word this it's either going to be a better or worse survival.

If the drops are too common and the affinity gain too much (which with the amount of enemies you're suggesting it almost certainly would be) then it's just going to be an easier survival no matter how many enemies you toss at the players. Also remember that AoE weapons and skills exist, and would render the number of enemies moot. However if the resource drop rate is too rare and the amount of affinity you get too slow in relation to the amount of enemies then it's just not worth doing it, and you'd be better off doing survival.

There's no nice way to implement this mission without either rendering survival pointless or making this mission pointless, as all it is is just survival without life support, more enemies (which equals more loot no matter how you look at it) and limited respawns.

Honestly, I think survival should have been more along the lines of my idea. When I think of survival, you're put in a bad situation with a ton of enemies and the goal is to not die. Not picking up life support. Which half the time does not make sense. How do you take away oxygen and need life support on a planet like earth? Or some other planets in general. The warframe has some way of breathing in atmospheres that may not have oxygen. So honestly what we have noe makes no sense. That's why I would like to see a swarm kind of mission which makes more sense.

And Aoe is a large thing in this game, most frames have aoe abilities, it's already what we use in defense and survival now. The thing about my game type is that you have 2x more enemies than a survival ever could. And when an enemy dies another spawns in its place over and over again. So honestly the number of enemies wouldn't be diminished that fast. They would just keep coming. And honestly this is supposed to be a challenge. There is not a lot of stuff in this game that is really challenging. 

However, with the resources, the rate wouldn't be too low to make resources scarce but not high enough to make it a crazy farm. But if you look at it this way. A mission may not be good for one thing but may be good for another. Honestly it would have to be good for at least something or no one would play it. So it may lack in resources bit theoretically could be a good focus/affinity farm. Or the other way around. This isn't meant to he a perfect mission to get both. No mission is honestly set up perfectly that way. 

I see it more as a potential replacement for survival. A more true kind of survival.

 

[GeoffFromAccounting]

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Midnight Aether said:

Honestly, I think survival should have been more along the lines of my idea. When I think of survival, you're put in a bad situation with a ton of enemies and the goal is to not die. Not picking up life support. Which half the time does not make sense. How do you take away oxygen and need life support on a planet like earth? Or some other planets in general. The warframe has some way of breathing in atmospheres that may not have oxygen. So honestly what we have noe makes no sense. That's why I would like to see a swarm kind of mission which makes more sense.

Survival on planets hasn't been a thing since Excavation was introduced iirc. And as far as we know Warframe's are still biological in nature and require oxygen, hence the need for life support. The only vacuum environment where we don't take damage as far as I'm aware is Archwing, and one can assume that the Archwing has some sort of oxygen module on it.

15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Midnight Aether said:

And Aoe is a large thing in this game, most frames have aoe abilities, it's already what we use in defense and survival now. The thing about my game type is that you have 2x more enemies than a survival ever could. And when an enemy dies another spawns in its place over and over again. So honestly the number of enemies wouldn't be diminished that fast. They would just keep coming. And honestly this is supposed to be a challenge. There is not a lot of stuff in this game that is really challenging. 

This happens already in regular Survival. Go to any Sortie or other high level survival and you'll see this is exactly what happens. And if it isn't happening it's because someone's using whatever the current CC meta is to lock down the entire map. No matter how quickly enemies spawn or how many there are, they're just going to get erased from existence before they even have a chance to react. There's better ways to get challenge in a game other than just throwing more enemies at the player.

16 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Midnight Aether said:

However, with the resources, the rate wouldn't be too low to make resources scarce but not high enough to make it a crazy farm. But if you look at it this way. A mission may not be good for one thing but may be good for another. Honestly it would have to be good for at least something or no one would play it. So it may lack in resources bit theoretically could be a good focus/affinity farm. Or the other way around. This isn't meant to he a perfect mission to get both. No mission is honestly set up perfectly that way. 

Then we have Draco/Viver all over again, where all anyone ever does is play the one mission for affinity/focus and nothing else. And we all know what's happened to all previous affinity farms in the past.

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

9 hours ago, Ninjaboy00 said:

There's better ways to get challenge in a game other than just throwing more enemies at the player.

Then if you are saying there are better ways why aren't you listing them? You're going to state that and not even back that up with anything. That is just a poor example of critical thinking skills. You're telling me what you believe is wrong with everything but not giving constructive criticism on what could possibly be better than this. So I'll be waiting on your ideas, if you have any. 

[GrayArchon]

Why would DE nerf drop rates and affinity gains for enemies only in one specific game mode? Or change the number of revives for a specific game mode? They've never done that to my knowledge. I don't see what qualitative difference this game mode has from survival. "Survival with 2x enemies" is still survival. No matter how much you say "it means more challenge", this is still survival, and to justify its very existence you're asking DE to change their own rules in a way they've never done before.

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

1 hour ago, GrayArchon said:

Why would DE nerf drop rates and affinity gains for enemies only in one specific game mode? Or change the number of revives for a specific game mode? They've never done that to my knowledge. I don't see what qualitative difference this game mode has from survival. "Survival with 2x enemies" is still survival. No matter how much you say "it means more challenge", this is still survival, and to justify its very existence you're asking DE to change their own rules in a way they've never done before.

This game still has a beta tag, meaning thay DE can change it in any way they want. They can literally change the whole game if they wanted to. It is just a new different kind of idea that could be implemented. Like I said just an idea. And as far as I see it, there is no need to for such harshness like I've gotten on this for just an idea. Yes it has its flaws. But The idea isn't to look at it based on what we already have in game. The idea is to see what constructive criticism and way that this idea can be improved upon. Don't just tell me what's wrong with it and not give any suggestions on a way to fix it. Again, don't compare it to whats already in game but look at it from a new perspective. I'm sick and tired of people just saying it won't work and not saying this is what could actually make this work possibly. 

 

And dont just answer me back with just go play survival. 

[GrayArchon]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Midnight Aether said:

This game still has a beta tag, meaning thay DE can change it in any way they want. They can literally change the whole game if they wanted to. It is just a new different kind of idea that could be implemented. Like I said just an idea. And as far as I see it, there is no need to for such harshness like I've gotten on this for just an idea. Yes it has its flaws. But The idea isn't to look at it based on what we already have in game. The idea is to see what constructive criticism and way that this idea can be improved upon. Don't just tell me what's wrong with it and not give any suggestions on a way to fix it. Again, don't compare it to whats already in game but look at it from a new perspective. I'm sick and tired of people just saying it won't work and not saying this is what could actually make this work possibly. 

 

And dont just answer me back with just go play survival. 

Yes, DE can change the game and add to it as much as they want. Otherwise these fora would be useless. But nerfing affinity/loot gains from enemies within a specific game mode while keeping them the same elsewhere is substantially, qualitatively different than, say, adding Excavation as a new game mode. Where else in the game do basic gameplay mechanics act differently from one place to the next (outside of Conclave, which is almost another game)?

I don't think you've gotten unnecessary harshness on this post. I think you've gotten feedback on the parts of your idea that don't work. I don't see any name-calling or toxic behaviour. The reason why no one has offered improvements on your idea is – and I'm saying this as nicely as I can – there is no part of it that is salvageable. It doesn't add anything new to the game, and has the potential to warp balance unless mediated by very fine-tuned adjustment (something which DE is not known for) of core game mechanics.

[Somb3rBivalve]

It sounds fun, but realistically speaking, it sounds too similar to survival to implement.

[(XBOX)Aeternum Siris]

This is a really great idea. It's actually what I thought Survival was, until I played it. While it is similar to Survival mission types, it allows for a harder challenge, which many players want to see. With the OP farm drops being fixed, it has great potential. 

[(XBOX)Midnight Aether]

Fine, then this thread is done. I'm not replying to any more comments, because I'm done caring. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by (XB1)Midnight Aether

[BaIthazar]

hahaha, that's not how this works

[InDueTime-EN-]

Survival type of game modes always requires a fail condition. If the only reason to fail the mission is to die then it's not much of a challenge. Even if you amp up a difficulty there are always ways to cheese it. But if you look at Exca, Surv, Defection, Def and Salvage is that there are things you have to do other than kill a million enemies. 

And we already have a lot of endless missions and no reason to do it. Which is a problem that they need solve before adding more of these. The only time I played defection and salvage when they came out was to farm the warframe parts. 

[GeoffFromAccounting]

On 8/15/2017 at 2:38 AM, (Xbox One)Midnight Aether said:

Then if you are saying there are better ways why aren't you listing them? You're going to state that and not even back that up with anything. That is just a poor example of critical thinking skills. You're telling me what you believe is wrong with everything but not giving constructive criticism on what could possibly be better than this. So I'll be waiting on your ideas, if you have any. 

Everything I can think of has already been listed off by people far more capable than me in coming up with ideas (better AI, more varied enemies, actually balancing the damn game etc.). There's nothing one particular mission is able to do that'll be challenging to the player until things like the AI being improved for enemies to work together to take us down, or balancing the game so it isn't a case of "who can one-shot who first?"

Realistically what we need is an AI 2.0 and a balancing 2.0, but at this point I'm going incredibly off topic and probably deserves to go in a different thread if at all

Edited August 16, 2017 by Ninjaboy00
I should learn to proofread at one point