Ember's Deluxe Skin Feedback

[Justice_Ember]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Wow, this is hilarious. 

So because you're obsessed with collecting, the art team needs to create skins you approve of?

I would more sympathize with the outrage if the skin looked out of place and didn't fit the warframe aesthetic at all.... Which ironically those other deluxe skins are somewhat guilty of.

Also, people are purchasing and USING the skin so...

Alright I can understand that for you this is just my issue, but let's be clear, it's not only me who doesn't approve and it's certainly not only me who will buy it even if he/she doesn't like it. 

You should really pick a side when defending this skin, it's either unconventional, which it isn't, or fitting the frame aesthetic, which again doesn't do. For all intents and purposes this skin accomplishes one thing above all, perpetuating the firechicken meme that Ember is. 

As for your last point, that it a valid point and as developer DE should check how many people use the skin and how long, I mean that'd be a more concise indicator for the overall success of the skin than just purchases or just forum opinions.

[Hypernaut1]

11 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Alright I can understand that for you this is just my issue, but let's be clear, it's not only me who doesn't approve and it's certainly not only me who will buy it even if he/she doesn't like it. 

You should really pick a side when defending this skin, it's either unconventional, which it isn't, or fitting the frame aesthetic, which again doesn't do. For all intents and purposes this skin accomplishes one thing above all, perpetuating the firechicken meme that Ember is. 

As for your last point, that it a valid point and as developer DE should check how many people use the skin and how long, I mean that'd be a more concise indicator for the overall success of the skin than just purchases or just forum opinions.

When I say unconventional, Im talking about warframes overall aesthetic. So no, I'm not contradicting myself. The Vermillion skin could've easily been Embers default if she were created today, especially when compared to the Ignus skin. That's what I mean

[Justice_Ember]

5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

When I say unconventional, Im talking about warframes overall aesthetic. So no, I'm not contradicting myself. The Vermillion skin could've easily been Embers default if she were created today, especially when compared to the Ignus skin. That's what I mean

My point exactly, all other Deluxe including Nova's, are wildly different. So this one doesn't feel like a deluxe at all.

[Hypernaut1]

2 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

My point exactly, all other Deluxe including Nova's, are wildly different. So this one doesn't feel like a deluxe at all.

I can agree with that point. It's not that wild of a change, which is what the Ignus skin provided.

I can totally get behind that argument, but not the vitriol and hate that others have expressed. 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Sin1989 said:

Yes, but the designer also said this too.

 

what that mean? he response in oct 18th its been 3 weeks and now we have ember deluxe skin unless this thread were necro'd 

[Guest]

On 11/5/2017 at 10:55 AM, Rhekemi said:

What DE, and any artistic department probably, will not do is take a design back to the drawing board because we hate it. Let me be blunt: the majority of us have no artistic or design expertise, no years spent studying art design academically or casually.

The art department does have years spent academically (and casually in their own time, I'd imagine) training, honing their talent, putting in hard work, and then working professionally doing what they love. Unlike game development at large, there is no symbiotic relationship between artists and the community of gamers.

I do believe we can influence them, but those of us that can are a minority (unlike how a majority of us as gamers can offer feedback). That minority is, you guessed it, those more artistically inclined, those who have also spent years casually and academically learning about artwork.

I was surprised that no one disputed this statement. To say those who have no artistic/design talent are incapable of having a sense of aesthetics is quite a fallacious one, and seems to suggest the artists have an arrogance to ignore any "unprofessional" people. A bit like those game veterans who demand MR20 and above players, don't you think? Art has always been a creation that is meant to Challenge the Masses' Thinking (you notice I did not say appeal to them). It has to cause a plethora of emotion/thought in those who view it. This is good art.

To put it into perspective, you don't have to experience cancer to be a doctor. You don't have to burn to death in a building to be a firefighter. You don't need to grow wine to be a professional taster. You don't have to make films to be able to write good critique of them. All in all, you are not obligated to be a producer if you are an informed consumer. Just because someone spent years at producing content does not automatically mean their opinion is better or of higher value.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, on to what I would have commented on the skin. Many have gave their arguments, and I would be reiterating many banal things that I have posted across the forums across random discussions over Ember's new skin. This is coming from a guy who literally bought the Nova Asuri skin as he wanted it for the extra arms (aside the helmet), and would have shelled out the plat for Ember's Pack, just for the Syandana and the Pistol (if the pistol skin went on his Cycron)

Yes, I can see that DE put a lot of effort, and there are things that please me more than Ignus' design such as the obvious SYMMETRY, which I have always appreciated over asymmetrical things. However, as many have already mentioned before, this skin does nothing new for ember, and could very well have just been her default skin if she was a new frame released today, as mentioned earlier. It appears bland, uninspired and built upon that ages old meme that she is a chicken/punk girl, thus people have a certain hate or distaste for it. So there is no need for me to reiterate this in full, for it has been run to the bone.

Now, why I feel I need to comment is mainly because of the developer response to the negative outpouring. I would simply compare this to film making. Yes, a director is not obliged to make a film that appears to a majority, as in the case of many "arthouse" films. However, even then, art is still made to be consumed in the end. Thus, it is natural people would make opinions of it. And therefore both positive and negative opinions exist. Any good director hoping to expand his audience and make so called "better" films might be better off heeding the words of his many critics, and doing something better to prove them wrong.

And now, if we just accept what is produced, rather than give our feedback, no matter how gifted we are in arts, don't you feel we are doing the artist a disfavor? Warframe is a community effort. It's kept afloat by everyone in it, the Devs, the Players and even all the peripheral support staff. It wouldn't be good for strong disharmony to flow through this, and an art team that creates content so disliked by people may end up alienating the aesthetically inclined they value more than us common players. It insulates the artist from the wider world, and makes it seem as though they are perfect when they are not. People make mistakes. We get over it. But we should point out mistakes when they happen. The Vermillion skin was a mistake to many of us (granted, not all.)

I have nothing against DE, and personally they did excellent work with a lot of the designs. I liked a lot of the deluxe skins for what they offered, as they challenged the perception of the base frame, which is cool in its own way (yes even the Asuri skin MINUS the helmet). I really like many of their swords and guns. But no one is perfect, and occasionally they have slip ups. Now, since many seem to perceive this Vermillion skin as a slip up, they pleaded for change, but it wasn't given. Admittedly, there was a better way to go about out instead of toxic bashing, but it just caused salt to build up to unhealthy levels, and now a plethora of such threads exist.

Another huge, huge mistake DE did obviously make here, though, is releasing the Irkalla skin together with the Vermillion skin. The Nekros Deluxe is excellent, as mentioned by some earlier on this thread (even though you look like some Arrancar from an anime known as Bleach, which is not ideal. The hole in the stomach was a bad, bad idea). While you might be tempted to dismiss it as "different skins for different frames", remember, the standard has been set. The Irkalla skin is cool. The Thanatos Scythe is a thing of beauty when it overwrote my Caustacyst. The Sugatra is pure gold. DE tantalized us with good work ... and released it with work that many saw as below DE's usual high standard. It makes it very hard to justify buying the Vermillion skin.

So yes, DE could have held back the release a bit, and maybe people might not have been this salty. Or as someone mentioned, take the third option. Scrap everything, get the art team to start from step one after cutting out the silly requirements like birds and Mohawks. Perhaps they might exceed Ignus Dei's creative art. Who knows? 

 

 

[TheBrsrkr]

6 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

Nah, we know that DE is ran in a more wildcat fashion, it changes releases on a whim. One guy has been allowed to work on Zephyr deluxe at his leisure for almost two years, they have no real punctual schedule for these things.

Saying "we're working on a Zephyr skin" and then not making it for 2 years is not the same as announcing and marketing the new skin as a reason to invest into Warframe. They are two completely different things. 

 

1 hour ago, Mints said:

Stop having opinions I don't have: The thread.

 

9 hours ago, Echoa said:

ill defend DE when the hate isn't deserved, but this skin is legitimately bad compared to the old one and there is no way to white knight around that.

You forgot this one. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by TheBrsrkr

[Tempestor]

On 2.11.2017 at 1:36 PM, xXDeadsinxX said:

As of Update 22.2.0, the Nekros and Ember deluxe skin bundles came out. They both look absolutely incredible, good job on the deluxe skins DE! 

But on to the issue at hand. Players are going crazy on Ember’s deluxe skin because they wanted the old original concept, which I can understand from their perspective because I liked the old concept as well. However, we got a total 100% different deluxe skin. Which in my opinion, I love it, the skin looks amazing!

To all the players out there that are mad at DE for doing what they’re doing for choosing the other deluxe skin instead of the original concept, please calm down, the hate needs to stop. It is seriously getting out of hand.

If you don’t like the skin, no need to get pitchforks and hate DE.

We can stop the hate the second, they give us a thought through uniqe alternative to the original skin like most other deluxe skins.

But until then i will sharpen my pitchfork!(jk but btw i understand they had some kind of argument with the designer but why not simply add both variants and let us decide what we want all people i know would have loved that )

[Sandhoof]

On 2.11.2017 at 13:42, KlutzMeister said:

Interesting point, counterpoint: No.

I can't find any decent shoulders that flow well with it and the thighs are colored weird.

Try out Avia Shoulders!

[phoenix1992]

Can we stop dragging Ignus into that?

Like legit, outside of my personal feelings for his work with DE, there is no point of bringing it in conjunction to the current skin. DE did whatever they felt like, and they should receive critique based on the final product, not based on "well you got in argument with this one guy a year ago"

Edited November 9, 2017 by phoenix1992

[Dasmir]

Why i need to stop ?

De teased a glorious skin and the community liked it, then they ignored the whole community AGAIN and release this joke.

 

Nope.

[xXDeadsinxX]

Just now, Dasmir said:

Why i need to stop ?

De teased a glorious skin and the community liked it, then they ignored the whole community AGAIN and release this joke.

 

Nope.

They didn’t want to ignore the community, they knew the community wanted the older skin but  couldn’t release it, so they made a knew one. They had to make a new skin.

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, Dasmir said:

Why i need to stop ?

De teased a glorious skin and the community liked it, then they ignored the whole community AGAIN and release this joke.

 

Nope.

I am not saying that what they did was "ok", I am saying that when it comes down to critiquing the final product, we should try to judge it on its own merits. Or we are just becoming subjective black knights.

[xXDeadsinxX]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

I am not saying that what they did was "ok", I am saying that when it comes down to critiquing the final product, we should try to judge it on its own merits. Or we are just becoming subjective black knights.

Exactly! Totally agree.

[akira_him]

Ignusdei: I don't want the mohawk

DE: I am not just making a mohawk, I will make a mohawk that's huge and get the players to pay for it

[phoenix1992]

Just now, xXDeadsinxX said:

Exactly! Totally agree.

The final product is still bad though.

[xXDeadsinxX]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

The final product is still bad though.

I personally like it, but I created the thread because people were hating on it, which is perfectly fine, but hating on the skin while giving no feedback isn’t the right way to do it. Constructive critisim is the right way to do it.

[(XBOX)weedyodaa]

2 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I personally like it, but I created the thread because people were hating on it, which is perfectly fine, but hating on the skin while giving no feedback isn’t the right way to do it. Constructive critisim is the right way to do it.

The fact you made a full forum page dedicated to it was going to cause critisim to begin with. At this point, the forum we have here is just fuel for the fire.

.. See what I did there?

[phoenix1992]

3 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

I personally like it, but I created the thread because people were hating on it, which is perfectly fine, but hating on the skin while giving no feedback isn’t the right way to do it. Constructive critisim is the right way to do it.

But dear @xXDeadsinxX feedback was given, and a non small amount of it, as I showed you in this topic ^^

[BornWithTeeth]

10 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

They didn’t want to ignore the community, they knew the community wanted the older skin but  couldn’t release it, so they made a knew one. They had to make a new skin.

Yes. And, completely free of any comparison to Ignus’ work, the new skin is not good. It is literally just an Ember frame with the bits and pieces of a chicken costume stuck on top of it. The other Deluxe skins which are DE’s own in-house work are better, more thoughtful, and more transformative. DE’s own deluxe skins for Nova, Chroma, and Saryn are far superior. Part of the reason that the Vermilion skin is poor is because it does not even look like a different take on the Warframe.

 

It’s just Ember wearing a chicken suit.

 

 

 

The community said this, and DE ignored it, except to rush the skin out as fast as they could. By contrast, the Zephyr Deluxe skin is apparently one guy’s hobby project and has been for two years.

 

I know that you personally like the skin, but this is not DE’s finest hour.

[KingTeensie]

Others see a chicken, I see a phoenix!

[FreeWilliam]

Honestly, the opinion of somebody who's hating on a cosmetic isn't all that important to me  We all have different tastes and it'd be pretty naive and arrogant to expect them only to do skins I want.

I want all KINDS of things, but I'm pretty sure I haven't put enough money into this game to justify my own dev staff over at DE. ;)

[VoidMask]

On 11/2/2017 at 11:36 AM, Rakawan said:

DE has managed to actually avoid both sides of a razor edge that a lot of game developers fall into. Sacrificing their vision for player opinions, and sacrificing player opinion for their vision.

This game has a healthy amount of player generated content and yet remains true to the dreams of those who build it.

Those complaining about the Ember skin need a history lesson about DE. They went full on for public opinion once and the result was an overall subpar game called Darksector, with a lot of potential but not much realized, because of compromise.

Warframe is their attempt to build their dream. It may not be your dream, and that is fine. It is their decision how much input they take into account and how many player suggested changes they make. They are under no obligation to tailor things to every vocal minority, especially when said minorities do nothing but rant and rave withrout any constructive feedback.

DE reserves the right to make their game how they want it to be, and it is that refusal to compromise that has made warframe the great game is today.

For those glorifying Igneus. He overstepped his bounds, and burned bridges, something he admits. DE is under no obligation to bow to someone who forgot his place in the creative process.

DE does not charge a monthly subscription, nor to they promise specific results. They offer the game as is, and you either buy the items within or don’t. They are under no obligation to provide you with exactly what you want.

TL:DR

You don’t like it, don’t buy it. THhat is how this sort of game works, that is how it should work.

 

But it was the big wigs that made Dark Sector change, not the players.

[theMongoose]

As someone that does not play Ember and would not have bought either of her skins:

The initial one was better. It looked like bubbling magma and had a badass feminine touch. It was sleek and powerful.

The new one seemed like an after thought of doing Mags deluxe skin. Because the Mag one looks good and was clearly the primary project. Then they looked at ember thought of a Phoenix and threw a very out of place mohawk on it. It ended up looking like a KFC reject with Daddy issues.

If you like it that's great. Fashionframe is all about you doing you. Make the frame as you want it to be. Stuff like this is all subjective.

But the problem is we were shown a great deluxe skin and only got a meh one. I hope for the sake of compromise someone just submits it as Tennogen and we get both.

[Penguinbuddy91]

Lol what hate? I just don' like the skin and I'm not buying it. I don't even play Ember. And sure the first one was cool and all but once again I don' exactly care about Ember so I wouldn' have bought that either.

It's called having an opinion.