Ember's Deluxe Skin Feedback

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

And how many? How many compared to how many bought the other skins? How many are just buying it for collection' sake? How many are buying it ironically? You need numbers before you can say 'Well actually people liked it stop complaining'.

So far all we have is people's opinions on the forums and in region chat. And far as I see, the vocal response is largely dislike.

Dislike for different reasons, mind. Some people really wanted the Ignus skin. Some people like myself just straight up hate the rubber feathers and overzealous mohawk.

I'm not saying they should get rid of it, people who DO like it are entitled to their opinion and shouldn't be punished for those opinions, but a lot of people feel lied to and ignored over this whole debacle.

And yet all we've had the devs say on the matter is 'be nice, people put effort into this' and 'It's been kind of up and down' on the stream. No concessions from DE. No acknowledgement of people's feelings on the matter, they've been very quiet on the whole thing.

Add in to this the fact that they HAVE the rights to the Ignus skin and total freedom to use it, it makes people feel like it's just someone's personal feelings having gotten hurt which roadblocked it and got us this...

The whole thing is a mess. But you shouldn't just say people are whining.

EDIT: Oh yes and let's not forget "This isn't the end of skins for Ember, there's always Tennogen" like that was some kind of actual solution.

I've seen it about as much or even more than other skins. Definitely more than Frost Harka when it was released. That's still not hard numbers though, so it really doesn't mean a whole lot, but it's enough for me to make an educated guess that people are indeed buying it.

I find it less likely that people are buying it out of spite than buying it because they actually like it. That's just a silly idea, and wishful thinking on your part

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[NightmareT12]

The skin is released now and little they should change about it. If anything there's a future full of possibilities for another skin. But changing that which is already available and some people DO like because some people don't like it would be a big no no.

If anything, let this be a point to consider in the future, but if anyone is expecting changes to the one available, you'll find me at least in the opposite side.

Edited November 16, 2017 by NightmareT12

[T40Productions]

6 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

The skin is released now and little they should change about it. If anything there's a future full of possibilities for another skin. But changing that which is already available and some people DO like because some people don't like it would be a big no-no.

If anything, let this be a point to consider in the future, but if anyone is expecting changes to the one available, you'll find me at least in the opposite side.

I'm not going to speak for anyone, but that's what I'm doing. I don't like the skin, but I also understand that it won't be changed now that it has already been released in-game.
What I want out of this is not for the skin to be deleted and switched out for Ember Deluxe 1.0. What I want is  for those who decided to put out the skin to at least see what negative backlash was received from that decision and how they can fix that for the future. A lot of what I saw was people crying to DE that the skin is trash and that it should've been Ember Deluxe 1.0 and that DE should change it out. And yes, in my opinion I do believe that the skin is trash, I don't like it. I see where others may like it, but I still stand by my opinion that the skin overall is trash. However, I also know that asking for any change/substitution to the skin is useless.

What position that I stand for is not those who want change to the skin, but those who want change in community input. Hypernaut1 replied to me a little while back saying:

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 1:17 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

They shouldn't have to design by committee. 

They make a skin either we like it and buy it or we don't.

Any outrage because of not having input is ridiculous

And to that I say "no, they don't have to design by committee", but I also say that if you reveal it in a stream and 90% (I don't know the exact percentage, this is just hyperbole) of the comments are negative in regards to the skin...maybe there may be some tweaking that needs to be done to the skin before it gets released.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Trunks40

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Trunks40 said:

 

And to that I say "no, they don't have to design by committee", but I also say that if you reveal it in a stream and 90% (I don't know the exact percentage, this is just hyperbole) of the comments are negative in regards to the skin...maybe there may be some tweaking that needs to be done to the skin before it gets released.

Ill agree that maybe they could give it a once-over, but realistically, sometimes you just need to go with your own vision. Especially when you have a player base that knee jerk responds to things without trying to give it a chance or understand. 

Warframe would not look the way it looks today if it was designed by the fickle masses. You want to see what a game made for mad consumption looks like? Check out any Korean MMO. They hit ALL of the tropes in their design. Warframe had never been after that mass appeal look, so it would stand that they won't always quickly scrap designs based on what immediately appeals to the masses.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[DeltaPangaea]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

Ill agree that maybe they could give it a once-over, but realistically, sometimes you just need to go with your own vision. Especially when you have a player base that knee jerk responds to things without trying to give it a chanceot understand. 

Warframe would not look the way it looks today if it was designed by the fickle masses. You want to see what a game made for mad consumption looks like? Check out any Korean MMO. They hit ALL of the tropes in their design. Warframe had never been after that mass appeal look, so it would stand that they won't always quickly scrap designs based on what immediately appeals to the masses.

There's little 'giving it a chance' when it comes to what people like.

Game design yes, sometimes you just gotta go with what you think will work better, but this is just visual design. If people don't like it, they don't like it. They can't be wrong about not liking it.

[Hypernaut1]

13 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

There's little 'giving it a chance' when it comes to what people like.

Game design yes, sometimes you just gotta go with what you think will work better, but this is just visual design. If people don't like it, they don't like it. They can't be wrong about not liking it.

Yes there is. What are your talking about?

I'm sure a lot of people didn't like warframes aesthetics before giving it a chance. I know I thought it looked weird and didn't "get" the gotten horn on Excalibur. Now I appreciate it's odd style.

All in all I see people rocking Vermillion. It's clearly not as hated as many of you hoped it would be. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[DeltaPangaea]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

Yes there is. What are your talking about?

I'm sure a lot of people didn't like warframes aesthetics before giving it a chance. I know I thought it looked weird and didn't "get" the gotten horn on Excalibur. Now I appreciate it's odd style.

There's a difference between "I don't know if I like this" and "I actually hate this enough to complain about it on the forums"

Vermilion is the latter.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, DeltaPangaea said:

There's a difference between "I don't know if I like this" and "I actually hate this enough to complain about it on the forums"

Vermilion is the latter.

This is pretty much a moot point as the skin has been released.  

Those that are voicing their opinions about having their feedback being ignored have a much more valid point.

[DeltaPangaea]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

This is pretty much a moot point as the skin has been released.  

Those that are voicing their opinions about having their feedback being ignored have a much more valid point.

Well yes.

It's not going to be removed now, there's no question about that, but a lot of the ill-will regarding it would be MUCH less if there was a response to it that didn't smack of damage control and downplaying people's opinions with 'it's been kind of up and down'.

[Violet_Xe]

On 11/16/2017 at 2:17 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

People are using the skin. This entire thread is regulated to whole lot of entitled noise.DE will take note to ignore the vitriol next time and go with what they want.

if you paid attention to the giant wall of text, in there it talks about us bing "entitled" 

and before you say *why the hell would i read all that!?* i organized it for everyone so by reading the first sentence it tells you the topic i'm on. here i'll quote it for you.

On 11/13/2017 at 10:28 AM, Violet_Xe said:

 

We are not entitled to these types of things but DE has made a game based off of community feedback to a large extent and we expect that to continue. we expect to have a say in the matter and recently we just haven't had a chance to fight back or correct them in anything because HEY YOU'RE GETTING THIS BE HAPPY. as seen with when they shows a completed ember vermillion, completed POE during tennocon, Completed Nekros, and way back the Completed Nova Asuri. not all of those are bad obviously PoE was great and nekros is ok for me but it just to prove my point. . we haven't had a say in a large majority of the things and that can be really infuriating when stuff like this rolls around. when a game is based off feedback, we expect to be able to give feedback on a topic. that's why the concepts were so nice, because you know what i saw when banshee concept and loki concept came out? tactical potato and aggp made videos talking about what they liked, stuff that was able to be changed. DE can do what they want but it isn't smart for them to roll around and do whatever, it's their game, we all had the option to read the terms of agreement. they own our accounts, but that doesn't stop us from trying to help the game and push it forward, sometimes pull it out from a hole, such as right now with ember prime.

they basically shoved the skin in front of us and say take it in a game where before we could respond and tell them to change things because it's a community feedback game. if you can't get feedback chances are it will fall flat. as for people buying the skin.

On 11/16/2017 at 2:43 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

Players want the skin. They're buying it

here

On 11/13/2017 at 10:28 AM, Violet_Xe said:

The weird results are as follows, there are people running around with this skin for many reasons, i see some who actually enjoy it, good for them, they get a cookie. but others are just trying it out to see if they can fall in love with it only to fall flat, some buy it to see if they can gain a new view of the skin, to fall flat, others buy it because they are collectors and cannot help themselves, some will buy the collection for the syandana or the gun because that's the only way to get it, and others just buy it because they try to white knight and protect DE.or perhaps they will be like Stream who buy it just to support you. these things produce false sales and you cannot say everyone who buys this skin actually enjoy it. the people who actually enjoy this skin are probably far lower than the people who own it. a giant factor in angering people is that when they try to do this to protect you but then hate it or try to like it then die on it, will hate you for it because they wasted their currency on something they will never use.

weird results aside there are people who like the skin and again i respect that, but DE even those who like the skin still have their own issues, Rhundis on page 32 who is a supported of your skin, thinks there isn't enough fire. perhaps add more more to the tips of the feathers for her arms and legs?

again it's very organized in terms of being able to find the topic. doesn't take much time to find the one you want to talk about and find the counter for it.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Violet_Xe said:

if you paid attention to the giant wall of text, in there it talks about us bing "entitled" 

and before you say *why the hell would i read all that!?* i organized it for everyone so by reading the first sentence it tells you the topic i'm on. here i'll quote it for you.

they basically shoved the skin in front of us and say take it in a game where before we could respond and tell them to change things because it's a community feedback game. if you can't get feedback chances are it will fall flat. as for people buying the skin.

here

again it's very organized in terms of being able to find the topic. doesn't take much time to find the one you want to talk about and find the counter for it.

It's a leap, wishful thinking and protection on your own part to assume that a great number of people are buying it that don't like it. I'm not claiming it's a #1 selling skin, buy I don't think people are buying it begrudgingly like you hope

Warframe is an odd looking games by default, to most players it probably just looks like another skin in Warframe style. It could've easily been Embers original skin.

Remember, most people don't follow the petty forum drama of who fired who for whatever reason. They are not choosing sides when looking at the skin. They simply see it as it is, an optional alternate skin for Ember.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Violet_Xe]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It's a leap, wishful thinking and protection on your own part to assume that a great number of people are buying it that don't like it. I'm not claiming it's a #1 selling skin, buy I don't think people are buying it begrudgingly like you hope

Warframe is an odd looking games by default, to most players it probably just looks like another skin in Warframe style. It could've easily been Embers original skin.

Remember, most people don't follow the petty forum drama of who fired who for whatever reason. They are not choosing sides when looking at the skin. They simply see it as it is, an optional alternate skin for Ember.

Sure i cannot actually look at the WHOLE community, but i can get the closest thing to that i can, my friends. 1/12 of them like this 3 people at the top of my clan also don't like it, and just lower people in my clan who frequently log in 1/4 like it. that's 2 people who like the skin out of 19 actually think it looks good. I get that deluxe skins lean towards a certain area of the community but this is just dumb. plus the statistics combined with this giant thread should basically say the skin's bad. 

Warframe is an odd looking game i agree with that, but from the very start i thought it looked cool, MANY people who tried it out or just looked at it did. weather your talking about vanilla excal or banshee prime, they all look great. weird but great. not weird and crap.

they may not look at who fired who, but they do watch devstreams where they announced they fired ignus and showed off the previous ember deluxe. and as for not choosing sides..... yeah no a lot of people pick sides.

[MeiWIZ]

48 page
DE remains silent....

[Terrornaut]

Holy crap this is 48 pages now.

Well...

Again, I love Ember. I have more hours on her than I do combined time in other video games in the last 2 years.  I was let down by her prime not being so different from the original (though it was kind of before they started to differentiate between the primes and normals), and let down by them taking so long to get a deluxe skin out for her while so many new frames got theirs or tennogen content.  I was ridiculous enough to say that, in my year or so hiatus, I would come back if they put out a deluxe skin or tennogen stuff for Ember. 

I ended up coming back for PoE, but, once Ember's deluxe skin was live, I legit took my break early at work to remote into my computer at home and load up Warframe to see the thing that I'd been waiting for, for years. I wasn't really expecting anything in particular, I knew that generally the WF art team has always been fantastic, if not groundbreaking in their use of organic shapes on non-organic material, but I was super let down.  Also just bummed because of having to give feedback that I don't like an artist's work (I know how painful that is believe me), especially with a company that has had a massively successful track record with art direction (for me personally).  Also need to note that I hadn't seen the originally intended skin until after seeing this one.  The skin is done though, and shouldn't be changed, because that would screw with the people who are happy with it, but I will hope they release a second skin for her to get around this.  Not asking for a discount or anything even, just to do another skin that we can give them money for.  It probably won't happen.

I'm not expecting anything at all to result from feedback and this thread, and that's generally ok, I just hope they do better for the next skin.  This one wasn't of the same aesthetic, on the same level, as the majority of the past deluxe skins.  You were getting into a different visual style with the other skins like Rhino Trin Banshee Loki...this one was not there, and it did not do enough on its own. Sure, its a little outrageous, there's some silhouette changing, the arm feathers are cool, the tail feathers are also cool but from the butt to legs its kind of eh??, but all in all its not the same kind of different cloth/armor/proportions the other skins have (trins non-feet, rhino's butt, obe's glam, etc) that made them stand out.  Also, I love mohawks, hell, I have a mohawk, but the head mohawk on this skin kind of bother's me in a way that tryptophobia-things kind of gets to me.  Its just a little unsettling to look at (maybe too many wobbly head feathers?)

The deluxe skins are like 2.0 Warframes, if WFs were in some other setting/universe/style.  While I absolutely love wf's visual direction, the deluxe skins' departure from the usual look was something that was very cool.

I like giving people money for things made that I enjoy and appreciate.  I never regret buying plat or frames now and then.  I am not financially well off in any way, but I dearly appreciate what/who I do spend my money on.  I do not want to spend money on this Ember skin.

I also hope the artist is unaware of the existence of this thread, because otherwise they may need many positive affirmations and hugs <_<
People are savage and ridiculous, myself included.

[Vanille]

46 minutes ago, Terrornaut said:

This one wasn't of the same aesthetic, on the same level, as the majority of the past deluxe skins.  You were getting into a different visual style with the other skins like Rhino Trin Banshee Loki...this one was not there, and it did not do enough on its own.

Those skins were designed by someone else that isn't designing for them anymore. One of the reasons they were very successful was because a deluxe skin changing a frame's mesh gave us a different alternative look on it. This is why in my opninon Ember deluxe was a 'disappointment'. Her skin is not bad, but like I said in another post, it's not deluxe quality, it's just her normal mesh, slighty changed to make her look thinner, and some feathers added on her. For a very popular frame that had players waiting for a deluxe this long, of course it would be a disappointment.

[Hypernaut1]

9 hours ago, MeiWIZ said:

 

 

48 page
DE remains silent....

because its overdramatic BS thats more about trying to shame the art team than give feedback...and also because the majority that play the game seem to be liking it. I see the skin everywhere now

6 hours ago, Kiwinille said:

 

 

 

 

 

Those skins were designed by someone else that isn't designing for them anymore. One of the reasons they were very successful was because a deluxe skin changing a frame's mesh gave us a different alternative look on it. This is why in my opninon Ember deluxe was a 'disappointment'. Her skin is not bad, but like I said in another post, it's not deluxe quality, it's just her normal mesh, slighty changed to make her look thinner, and some feathers added on her. For a very popular frame that had players waiting for a deluxe this long, of course it would be a disappointment.

This i can agree with. The skin could've just as easily be Embers default skin. The look is different, but not really that wild of a departure from her normal look. 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[DeltaPangaea]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

because its overdramatic BS thats more about trying to shame the art team than give feedback...and also because the majority that play the game seem to be liking it. I see the skin everywhere now

Are you missing the part where a lot of people AREN'T trying to shame the art team and are just expressive their opinions?

For going on about respecting the artists, you're not respecting the people giving feedback.

[MirageKnight]

 

1 hour ago, DeltaPangaea said:

For going on about respecting the artists, you're not respecting the people giving feedback.

To be fair, the people giving constructive feedback and voicing their concerns in a non-hostile and respectful manner and tone are the ones that deserve respect and consideration in kind. That's been the majority of the critical / "negative" feedback that I've seen.

Those that are saying "The skin is bad and the artist should feel bad" or "I asked for the other skin and I demand that we get it" for example do not deserve that respect. Yes sadly there's been some nasty posts on the matter, but that's in the minority thankfully (although I feel that even one disrespectful hate post is still one too many).

Sadly, some white knights around here see and present both groups as being one and the same for the purpose of arguing and make the claim that said group should be considered "hostile" and not worthy of consideration. Interesting strawman if you ask me...

Edited November 19, 2017 by MirageKnight
Clarity.

[Anthraxicus]

14 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

 

To be fair, the people giving constructive feedback and voicing their concerns in a non-hostile and respectful manner and tone are the ones that deserve respect and consideration in kind. That's been the majority of the critical / "negative" feedback.

Those that are saying "The skin is bad and the artist should feel bad" or "I asked for the other skin and I demand that we get it" for example do not deserve that respect. Yes sadly there's been some nasty posts on the matter, but that's in the minority thankfully.

Sadly, some white knights around here see and present both groups as being one and the same for the purpose of arguing and that said group should be considered "hostile" and not worthy of consideration. Interesting strawman if you ask me...

What exactly is the problem with asking for the other skin which is infinitely better than the current skin?

[MirageKnight]

2 minutes ago, Anthraxicus said:

What exactly is the problem with asking for the other skin which is infinitely better than the current skin?

It's all in how you ask.

Saying "I really liked that one skin and I'd like to see it in-game instead of this one" is perfectly reasonable because you're expressing your opinion in a positive manner.

Saying "I really liked that one skin and I demand you put it in-game because the other one sucks ***" is not reasonable because you come off as an entitled, belligerent schmuck.

To be fair, the deluxe skin we got is, in and of itself, interesting, creative and reasonably well executed. Whether it suits Ember's theme or not is the point of debate, and a lot of people feel that 1. the skin we got does NOT suit Ember's theme and that 2. DE ignored player feedback and handled the resulting situation poorly.

I don't think DE "owes" us Ignus' skin and I don't think they "have" to listen to us and accede to our wishes. However, I do think it's in DE's best interests to listen to us and take what we'd like to see in-game into consideration before making a final decision. Yes it's their game and they're entitled to do whatever the heck they want with it. Technically we're only allowed the privilege of playing their game. Says so in the EULA. But DE needs to remember that we're the people that ultimately play it and keep them funded and successful. Introducing features, skins, etc. that are unpopular or have a very low approval rating runs the very real risk of pushing away old and new players and that's something that an F2P game that depends heavily on maintaining and growing a paying player-base cannot afford to do.

[MeiWIZ]

6 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

also because the majority that play the game seem to be liking it.

Are you sure?
As I see only a few people have it.
and  mostly buy because they want only Pistol Skin&Syandana.

[Anthraxicus]

5 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

It's all in how you ask.

Saying "I really liked that one skin and I'd like to see it in-game instead of this one" is perfectly reasonable because you're expressing your opinion in a positive manner.

Saying "I really liked that one skin and I demand you put it in-game because the other one sucks ***" is not reasonable because you come off as an entitled, belligerent schmuck.

To be fair, the deluxe skin we got is, in and of itself, interesting, creative and reasonably well executed. Whether it suits Ember's theme or not is the point of debate, and a lot of people feel that 1. the skin we got does NOT suit Ember's theme and that 2. DE ignored player feedback and handled the resulting situation poorly.

I don't think DE "owes" us Ignus' skin and I don't think they "have" to listen to us and accede to our wishes. However, I do think it's in DE's best interests to listen to us and take what we'd like to see in-game into consideration before making a final decision. Yes it's their game and they're entitled to do whatever the heck they want with it. Technically we're only allowed the privilege of playing their game. Says so in the EULA. But DE needs to remember that we're the people that ultimately play it and keep them funded and successful. Introducing features, skins, etc. that are unpopular or have a very low approval rating runs the very real risk of pushing away old and new players and that's something that an F2P game that depends heavily on maintaining and growing a paying player-base cannot afford to do.

It doesn't seem interesting or creative, because Ember was already considered by all a bird. Going from a rooster with a mohawk to a peacock with an even bigger and uglier mohawk wasn't the most interesting and creative move I've seen. Going from bird themed skin to a inferno themed one would be interesting. And notice that DE wanted to put a mohawk on the other skin as well, which people didn't like because it wasn't interesting or creative. And for a deluxe skin, reasonably well executed doesn't cut it. 

And I wouldn't say we are allowed the privilege of playing the game. This is a business after all and any business should be thankful for the privilege of having customers. The moment they think their customers are a bunch of idiots who should swallow everyone nonsense throw at them, something is wrong.
The thing is: even if they do find people crazy enough to buy this skin, they should ask themselves how much money they are losing for not going with the other one.

 

Quote

Are you sure?
As I see only a few people have it.
and  mostly buy because they want only Pistol Skin&Syandana.

Same here. I don't see that many people using that skin. The vast majority of the player I've seen are still using the Ember Prime skin. And for 90% of the players I've seen using the deluxe skin, I only noticed it after getting very close and off combat, cuz they weren't wearing that ugly helmet, unlike other deluxe skins, which spot them right away even if they are wearing different helmets (Harka, Oberon, Mag etc...I wonder what these skins have in common). I've seen far more people wearing the Nekros skin. If you hang around Konzu, you are likely to see many Nekros Irkallas and not a single Ember peacock.

 

And I've just read something interesting from the guy himself. Not only Ignus really wanted to see his skin in the game, he also hoped that some Tennogen would make it, but he is afraid DE won't allow it even as Tennogen.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Anthraxicus

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, MeiWIZ said:

Are you sure?
As I see only a few people have it.
and  mostly buy because they want only Pistol Skin&Syandana.

I'm definitely sure. During this event I've been seeing a lot of Ember skins in Cetus. I even did a mission with two of them. 

In fact, I'll say it's one of the more popular skins I've seen in game right after release, most likely because Ember is a popular frame though. I've seen it more than the Mag skin, but thats most likely because I don't see as many mag players.  I didn't see Frost Harka as much on release either. Not saying these are hard core facts and numbers, but this is my observation. 

I find it funny that people keep trying to dismiss anyone purchasing the skin as having some ulterior motive. 

The skin looks like a success to me, as players are buying it. They have indeed voted with their wallets. And the art team didn't have to force themselves to work on a skin they didn't want to work on. Win/win to me. 

 

[Anthraxicus]

21 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm definitely sure. During this event I've been seeing a lot of Ember skins in Cetus. I even did a mission with two of them. 

In fact, I'll say it's one of the more popular skins I've seen in game right after release, most likely because Ember is a popular frame though. I've seen it more than the Mag skin, but thats most likely because I don't see as many mag players.  I didn't see Frost Harka as much on release either. Not saying these are hard core facts and numbers, but this is my observation. 

I find it funny that people keep trying to dismiss anyone purchasing the skin as having some ulterior motive. 

The skin looks like a success to me, as players are buying it. They have indeed voted with their wallets. And the art team didn't have to force themselves to work on a skin they didn't want to work on. Win/win to me. 

 

Dismissing people who purchaced the skin for ulterior motives? Nonsense. Just browse the forums and you see lots of people who purchased the skin for no reason whatsover other than they had platinum and nothing else to spend on.
What I have yet to see is people who purchased the skin because they loved it the way it is. 

Like I said above, they have to wonder how much they've lost (or haven't made) by refusing to release the other skin. And for that, there are lots of factors we need to consider. They paid for the previous work, which also took a lot of time, and was largely well received by the community which got hyped by it. Then they scraped the whole thing and spent more time and money on the new skin, which was largely poorly received by the community (devstream should have been a good enough indication). So, with all the evidence and the money they already objectively lost, it seems they could be selling a lot more. Even if they do consider this skin a success, there is plenty enough evidence that the other one would blow this one out of the water.  

[Hypernaut1]

20 minutes ago, Anthraxicus said:

Dismissing people who purchaced the skin for ulterior motives? Nonsense. Just browse the forums and you see lots of people who purchased the skin for no reason whatsover other than they had platinum and nothing else to spend on.
What I have yet to see is people who purchased the skin because they loved it the way it is. 

Like I said above, they have to wonder how much they've lost (or haven't made) by refusing to release the other skin. And for that, there are lots of factors we need to consider. They paid for the previous work, which also took a lot of time, and was largely well received by the community which got hyped by it. Then they scraped the whole thing and spent more time and money on the new skin, which was largely poorly received by the community (devstream should have been a good enough indication). So, with all the evidence and the money they already objectively lost, it seems they could be selling a lot more. Even if they do consider this skin a success, there is plenty enough evidence that the other one would blow this one out of the water.  

You live in a fantasy world. "plenty of evidence"? What evidence? Forums hype things they end up hating, and rage on things they end up using ALL OF THE TIME. That's far from evidence. Lol. 

I'mnot dismissing people that bought it despite not liking it, its ridiculous to jump to the conclusion that most people actually using it don't like it. It sounds like something you're telling yourself to feel justified. It's an optional skin. I'm pretty sure most people that don't like it choose not to buy it, color it and equip it... That's just how these things work.

If they wanted to appeal to the masses to make sales, it wouldn't be that hard. DE has never been about that though. They could easily release dragon samurai warrior bad-a** skins/frames or skimpy sexy female warrior skins to make tons of easily garnered sales. It's really not that hard to make something edgy and cool and popular, but that's not Warframes style. 

You can't objectively lose sales you never had. What does that even mean? 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Hypernaut1