current state of ember

[Andaius]

4 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

This game is about killing stuff and when somebody kills 90% of stuff just by sprinting ahead of team then something wrong is happening.

Also imagine Inaros tornado without speed debuff but actual buff

This can happen with anything, you don't even have to use powers. Automatics and AoE weapons can do the same thing and aren't limited to how many enemies it can target at a time. The conditions people are complaining about at like levels 1-30. Hell a Volt puts speed on and has an amprex can do the same thing with less hassle because he doesn't have the same targeting restrictions. So I'd say that logic is flawed.

[Radagosh]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Speak for yourself please.  I've already explained my reasons above. 

Wow, everyone now seems to think I'm out to Nerf Ember now because I said "I (me, myself) could work with that suggestion".  Personally, I think the whole complaining about Ember is stupid.  I can sympathize with newer players, but only to a certain degree.  

I ain't attacking you or anyone here - I'm actually rather surprised how nice the conversation is going compared to the usual stuff that happens here.

I also totally understand players being frustrated about people taking their kills. I use Ember in JV (mainly to buff teammates with 2 and kill stuff on the side) and every time I see an Equinox player getting more damage done than me i get a little bit frustrated. I'm used to dealing most damage with my Ember, she got 9 formas after all (don't judge im using her since update 11 or so)

What I meant to say is that if you take the mobility away from ember, she has nothing. If i wanted an immobile killer machine I'd go for a banshee or saryn, but with Ember i can actually use my "Nuke", which is more of a CC-aura at higher levels and my melee together instead of just playing DJ for the duration of my energy pool.

[Berserk-King]

20 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im tired of all the leaches afking in my groups, expect bugs the only thing what can make my happiness go away are afk leaches in the missions. Guy hides on an unreachable spot in hireracon, sits on the top of the energy cannon on Io, goes afk on akkad on the enemy spawn point. I had enough of them, i despise them i rather do a survival mission with 3 limbos spamming cata and stasis than have another defese run ruined because someone is not willing to do anything but also refuses to leave the group.

Well your picking the wrong guy, if i am in hireracon i make sure those relics get got 8 extractors minimum with nidus, as for akkad if a ember is there i have to try do somthing or you get stripped for reward for inactivity, 1 or 2 kills move around a bit, then once they leave after 5 - 10 waves and killed the fun i proceed onto 40-60 waves depending on the frame, i dont see anything wrong with that. what im really on about is on alerts (yep people do want to have fun in them too) but embers always there burning them down, this is when i afk and in relic farms i crack it open then afk.

A little while ago before writing this i went in t4 survival hoping to go 20 mins public for relics because solo gets a bit boring someitmes just for some relics, theres ember burning it down it went 9 mins before it had to leave it couldnt even hang in there until 10min, now i don't play this frame but from my observations ember is in drastic need of help, its op in easy content then pathetic in harder content, maybe there is ember players that dont abuse WOF and maybe they are good, great even but ive never seen a single one and i see nothing but embers everywhere, lets have it right people abuse it for farming and thats it, if  they change it i dont care but dont jump on me for doing what i do.

[DatDarkOne]

7 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

I ain't attacking you or anyone here - I'm actually rather surprised how nice the conversation is going compared to the usual stuff that happens here.

I also totally understand players being frustrated about people taking their kills. I use Ember in JV (mainly to buff teammates with 2 and kill stuff on the side) and every time I see an Equinox player getting more damage done than me i get a little bit frustrated. I'm used to dealing most damage with my Ember, she got 9 formas after all (don't judge im using her since update 11 or so)

What I meant to say is that if you take the mobility away from ember, she has nothing. If i wanted an immobile killer machine I'd go for a banshee or saryn, but with Ember i can actually use my "Nuke", which is more of a CC-aura at higher levels and my melee together instead of just playing DJ for the duration of my energy pool.

Actually the last few minutes the conversations got kinda fast. I didn't think you were attacking.  I was just trying to explain myself a little better in the slight chaos of all the incoming new posts.  :D  

[Pktrd]

2 minutes ago, Andaius said:

This can happen with anything, you don't even have to use powers. Automatics and AoE weapons can do the same thing and aren't limited to how many enemies it can target at a time. The conditions people are complaining about at like levels 1-30. Hell a Volt puts speed on and has an amprex can do the same thing with less hassle because he doesn't have the same targeting restrictions. So I'd say that logic is flawed.

So best thing will be probably ability to select certain frames and weapons to be avoided in matchfinder

 

 

[Andaius]

8 minutes ago, Fezeal said:

Well your picking the wrong guy, if i am in hireracon i make sure those relics get got 8 extractors minimum with nidus, as for akkad if a ember is there i have to try do somthing or you get stripped for reward for inactivity, 1 or 2 kills move around a bit, then once they leave after 5 - 10 waves and killed the fun i proceed onto 40-60 waves depending on the frame, i dont see anything wrong with that. what im really on about is on alerts (yep people do want to have fun in them too) but embers always there burning them down, this is when i afk and in relic farms i crack it open then afk.

A little while ago before writing this i went in t4 survival hoping to go 20 mins public for relics because solo gets a bit boring someitmes just for some relics, theres ember burning it down it went 9 mins before it had to leave it couldnt even hang in there until 10min, now i don't play this frame but from my observations ember is in drastic need of help, its op in easy content then pathetic in harder content, maybe there is ember players that dont abuse WOF and maybe they are good, great even but ive never seen a single one and i see nothing but embers everywhere, lets have it right people abuse it for farming and thats it, if  they change it i dont care but dont jump on me for doing what i do.

That just seems to be a "noob" ember that so used to playing in low levels doesn't know how to fight in higher level stuff. I've taken My Ember into 40 minutes in Mot Granted it's pretty hard after this much to stay alive because your working very hard to stay alive and it can be hell on your hands. That is if you don't have defense oriented frames to give us breathers.

[Andaius]

8 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

So best thing will be probably ability to select certain frames and weapons to be avoided in matchfinder

 

 

Indeed, all thats needed if you don't want a particular frame in your mission is swap out of public and into friends/invite only. Then all there problems are solved. But people still must have something to complain about so they stay on pub and find things to complain about.

[Berserk-King]

2 minutes ago, Andaius said:

That just seems to be a "noob" ember that so used to playing in low levels doesn't know how to fight in higher level stuff. I've taken My Ember into 40 minutes in Mot Granted it's pretty hard after this much to stay alive because your working very hard to stay alive and it can be hell on your hands. That is if you don't have defense oriented frames to give us breathers.

I believe it i am one of those that say any frame can be good in the hands of a good player and your obviously a ember fan thats great but it makes you what the 1% (or less)

[Andaius]

10 minutes ago, Fezeal said:

I believe it i am one of those that say any frame can be good in the hands of a good player and your obviously a ember fan thats great but it makes you what the 1% (or less)

My profile says I played Ember prime 26% of my 2420 hours according to steam play time.  it says I have 76,806,976 XP gained with it. 246,127 kills and 20,211 kill assists.

I loved her kit and play style so I try to make it work on all levels of play.  Most I think just hear "Ember not good at high levels" and don't even try or think about what you need to do to tackle them with her.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Andaius

[Mintaro]

Ember does what she meant to do the only thing she would need is scaling and tbh i would love to see her have a overheat system where as you get hotter your flames do more damage but once you each max you get constant fire procs till you decide to cool off.

[Berserk-King]

11 minutes ago, Andaius said:

My profile says I played Ember prime 26% of my 2420 hours according to steam play time.  it says I have 76,806,976 XP gained with it. 246,127 kills and 20,211 kill assists.

I loved her kit and play style so I try to make it work on all levels of play.  Most I think just hear "Ember not good at high levels" and don't even try or think about what you need to do to tackle them with her.

Thats alot of ember playing, the 1-3 look great on the wiki, of course i dont recall ever seeing a ember use the 2 maybe they do and i miss it? also maybe WOF would be better if it was more like toxic chromas AOE, a percentage damage based on enemy health perhaps a bit stronger though

[jfhsanseiIII]

I'd like to see Ember's abilities get reworked to fall in line with the level of synergy new frames have.  Her kit now is kind of clunky with a toggle that is super annoying until late level where damage output falls off and you have to make some very interesting weapon choices to keep her viable.  There are so many cool things that Fire does mechanically that DE could create a very fun mechanically based caster frame with some CC ability.  Accelerant should be the first ability and just be an accelerant with an option for different kind s of accelerant (fluid based gaze based, etc). Then have the other three abilities react differently based upon the accelerant used with harder burns with less burn time, bigger CC with less damage, larger burn areas with a dot, controlled area burns that enemies can't pass through, and so on.  WoF is just not a fun ability and people use it for no reason other than easily clearing content without interacting with it.  For new players it's incredibly frustrating because they're missing the experience.  For vets like me it's a nuisance because it's acframe that's just not very engaging.  

[BornWithTeeth]

15 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

I'd like to see Ember's abilities get reworked to fall in line with the level of synergy new frames have.  Her kit now is kind of clunky with a toggle that is super annoying until late level where damage output falls off and you have to make some very interesting weapon choices to keep her viable.  There are so many cool things that Fire does mechanically that DE could create a very fun mechanically based caster frame with some CC ability.  Accelerant should be the first ability and just be an accelerant with an option for different kind s of accelerant (fluid based gaze based, etc). Then have the other three abilities react differently based upon the accelerant used with harder burns with less burn time, bigger CC with less damage, larger burn areas with a dot, controlled area burns that enemies can't pass through, and so on.  WoF is just not a fun ability and people use it for no reason other than easily clearing content without interacting with it.  For new players it's incredibly frustrating because they're missing the experience.  For vets like me it's a nuisance because it's acframe that's just not very engaging.  

Right, except that DE would just destroy her and turn her into something like Nidus, Octavia, or new Hydroid.

[Andaius]

24 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

I'd like to see Ember's abilities get reworked to fall in line with the level of synergy new frames have.  Her kit now is kind of clunky with a toggle that is super annoying until late level where damage output falls off and you have to make some very interesting weapon choices to keep her viable.  There are so many cool things that Fire does mechanically that DE could create a very fun mechanically based caster frame with some CC ability.  Accelerant should be the first ability and just be an accelerant with an option for different kind s of accelerant (fluid based gaze based, etc). Then have the other three abilities react differently based upon the accelerant used with harder burns with less burn time, bigger CC with less damage, larger burn areas with a dot, controlled area burns that enemies can't pass through, and so on.  WoF is just not a fun ability and people use it for no reason other than easily clearing content without interacting with it.  For new players it's incredibly frustrating because they're missing the experience.  For vets like me it's a nuisance because it's acframe that's just not very engaging.  

You say synergy but miss that Accelerant already "synergies" with everything in her kit. All her abilities do heat damage, accelerant amp up said damage. I'd say thats pretty synergistic! Your change just seems overly complicated for little return. Can you remember, swap to , and change up all your proposed accelerant changes as needed and then use other powers on them all the while dodging enemy fire and so forth? Her kit now is elegant and simple to use. Also being very effective.

 

30 minutes ago, Fezeal said:

Thats alot of ember playing, the 1-3 look great on the wiki, of course i dont recall ever seeing a ember use the 2 maybe they do and i miss it? also maybe WOF would be better if it was more like toxic chromas AOE, a percentage damage based on enemy health perhaps a bit stronger though

Indeed it is. :D You should really give her a try on mid to higher level content to really learn how she works. like 40-70 where the scaling isn't too huge a problem. You'll learn how to use all her abilities together to turn her into a fiery murderess of shotgunny doom. :D  I really think this is the best way to give feedback on warframes. You really have o put the time into it and know the pitfalls and perks before you can whine about things or suggest changes that would pretty much destroy how she works.

[Trowicia]

1 hour ago, Fezeal said:

Thats alot of ember playing, the 1-3 look great on the wiki, of course i dont recall ever seeing a ember use the 2 maybe they do and i miss it? also maybe WOF would be better if it was more like toxic chromas AOE, a percentage damage based on enemy health perhaps a bit stronger though

Land in a mission with me and I can assure to you that you'll see a ton of 90% Fire damage buffs coming from me. I spam Accelerant so much I'm sure my number 2 key is nearly ready to kick the bucket at this point.

[Sziklamester]

So my question who's will team up with me?

Also still think ember needs some rework but we can hope DE can do it without harming the frame and her playstyle.

[SDGDen]

21 hours ago, Pktrd said:

So best thing will be probably ability to select certain frames and weapons to be avoided in matchfinder

 

 

ooooh... that is a great idea actualy.. not just for ember. because i know some people hate it when you bring limbo as well. then those people can turn that off.

 

also. its nice that this thread is still getting posts with actual constructive feedback instead of either blatant "EMBER NEEDS NERF" or "DONT TOUCH MAH BABY". thanks for not making the debate too heated guys!

[Andaius]

7 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

ooooh... that is a great idea actualy.. not just for ember. because i know some people hate it when you bring limbo as well. then those people can turn that off.

 

also. its nice that this thread is still getting posts with actual constructive feedback instead of either blatant "EMBER NEEDS NERF" or "DONT TOUCH MAH BABY". thanks for not making the debate too heated guys!

That doesn't sound very good at all. All that would do is exclude certain frames for finding pub games.  How would you like to be shunned and excluded because you like to play "X" frame. The mechanics for them to not have certain frames and weapons is already in place. They just are too lazy or just want excuses to complain about something in the forums. Pretty much all of there complaints would be a non-issue if they bothered to setup before hand.

[phoenix1992]

28 minutes ago, Andaius said:

That doesn't sound very good at all. All that would do is exclude certain frames for finding pub games.  How would you like to be shunned and excluded because you like to play "X" frame. The mechanics for them to not have certain frames and weapons is already in place. They just are too lazy or just want excuses to complain about something in the forums. Pretty much all of there complaints would be a non-issue if they bothered to setup before hand.

*this quote is not directed towards you just continuing the context*

Those who do not remember the past are bound to repeat it. If any kind of hard limiter like "no AoE DPS frames" is included in Warframe Random tool, it will just repeat what happened in other games. Purposely and Malicious game trolling and breaking out of spite. WoW remember that. League remembers that. It is extremely easy to destroy the fragile balance in the Random tool by unnecessary tinkering, be smart about you want. 

[Pktrd]

Every ember player has option of not to activate WOF or actually not rush forward.

But I almost never see anybody behave this way as if rushing forward is a norm.

Still people are protecting this aspect of ember.

Slowdown in case of WOF is probably easiest way to get rid of Ember issues without any balancing.

As for now Ember is still pain and will remain this way.

The biggest obstacle on any solution of this problem seems to be the Ego of our fellow pyromaniacs.

Remember that there are also low tier players around and for them even level 20 enemies are challenging.

.

 

 

[Andaius]

4 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

Every ember player has option of not to activate WOF or actually not rush forward.

But I almost never see anybody behave this way as if rushing forward is a norm.

Still people are protecting this aspect of ember.

Slowdown in case of WOF is probably easiest way to get rid of Ember issues without any balancing.

As for now Ember is still pain and will remain this way.

The biggest obstacle on any solution of this problem seems to be the Ego of our fellow pyromaniacs.

Remember that there are also low tier players around and for them even level 20 enemies are challenging.

.

 

 

Every other player on the Embers team has the option of keeping up with her and not staying behind.

In pub alerts I've seen almost every player act this way. 

Everything you said can be applied to the other parties or other frames.

[DatDarkOne]

22 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

Every ember player has option of not to activate WOF or actually not rush forward.

But I almost never see anybody behave this way as if rushing forward is a norm.

Still people are protecting this aspect of ember.

Slowdown in case of WOF is probably easiest way to get rid of Ember issues without any balancing.

As for now Ember is still pain and will remain this way.

The biggest obstacle on any solution of this problem seems to be the Ego of our fellow pyromaniacs.

Remember that there are also low tier players around and for them even level 20 enemies are challenging.

This isn't really an Ember issue and more of a Player one.  In the same levels that players complain about Ember, I can do the same with Ivara and the Rakta Cernos.  Almost any frame is capable of making killing enemies hard/annoying for newbies on low levels.  

When I play on lower levels, I intentionally hold back (regardless of frame I'm using) just so I don't spoil the fun/experience for newer players.  

[Pktrd]

3 minutes ago, Andaius said:

Every other player on the Embers team has the option of keeping up with her and not staying behind.

In pub alerts I've seen almost every player act this way. 

Everything you said can be applied to the other parties or other frames.

So Warframe has devolved to racing game.

Just keep up with your wannabe leader forget all aspect of battle orientated game.

Maybe build your leader shrine.

Yes it is not ember problem only and similar disaster can be caused by specific weapon or abilities of other frames.

Still WOF is probably the laziest and easiest way to achieve this level of Domination over others in terms of pure Selfishness.

 

[Pktrd]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

This isn't really an Ember issue and more of a Player one.  In the same levels that players complain about Ember, I can do the same with Ivara and the Rakta Cernos.  Almost any frame is capable of making killing enemies hard/annoying for newbies on low levels.  

When I play on lower levels, I intentionally hold back (regardless of frame I'm using) just so I don't spoil the fun/experience for newer players.  

Yes it could super fast Loki doing ridiculous damage while stealthed and always be at leader position of racing team.

Still it at least need to aim at most cases not just run around.

 

[Andaius]

22 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

So Warframe has devolved to racing game.

Just keep up with your wannabe leader forget all aspect of battle orientated game.

Maybe build your leader shrine.

Yes it is not ember problem only and similar disaster can be caused by specific weapon or abilities of other frames.

Still WOF is probably the laziest and easiest way to achieve this level of Domination over others in terms of pure Selfishness.

 

No, it's just your expecting too much from a PUBLIC RANDOM game. It all disappears if to take a second and setup a team. Like I keep saying the tools to prevent this are already in your hands. The people who generally make threads like this are too lazy to use them, or want something to complain or some one to complain against. If you take a look at in this case Ember she's not as powerful as they make out and many many other frames and weapons loadout can easily simulate what she does.

Ember doesn't need changed it's the people expecting a random team to play exactly how they want. If they don't they try to find a target and try to either shame them or eliminate there play style or nerf abilities because they don't conform  to what they want.  All they have to do is let them mission end quickly like most of the people who play alerts on low level do, and then go to another mission.

 

*Eh by "Your" I'm not directing it at you specifically but anyone specifically going into random games and demanding everyone magically know what they think is "fun" and follow all their "rules on fun warframe gaming" and to follow there pace at all times, oh and also don't steal all there kills. You absolutely can't get more kills then them!

Edited September 1, 2017 by Andaius