Ember Prime Nerf...OR Balance..(((TRIGGER WARNING)))

[MobyTheDuck]

20 minutes ago, AlexAl3x said:

This is how I feel right now...about all the replies lol

Because this thread is stupid. It was done a million times and everytime someone makes a constructive point, the OP jams his fingers on his ears, trying to gather any 'positive' replies so he can feel he is right about something.

Ember cant steamroll mid/high level content with WoF alone. If anything, a competent Ember player that put a few formas on her knows how to use her skills with weapons equiped with heat damage.

The synergy around her skills is what makes her strong. While Ember loses damage pretty fast due armor, she still has amazing CC potential with both heat procs and Accelerant. Weapons like the Ignis also helps her to keep that damage high, you really wont go far with only WoF. Any frame with good CC and a Ignis with a good riven can just destroy everything.

Even if they did nerf Ember, people like you would then go after Frost because 'lol avalanche has huge range', Equinox because its 'press 4 to win lolololol', Excal because 'lol he can just cleave everything', Nezha because 'lol his 4 goes through walls', Nova because 'her 4 plus 2 is easy mode lol'.

Stop being a baby and learn how to play solo. If you play on public, you are agreeing that anyone can bring anything, no matter how easy it makes the current mission. You are also free to leave the mission any time you want.

Edited October 3, 2017 by MobyTheDuck

[CammiX]

4 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Because this thread is stupid. It was done a million times and everytime someone makes a constructive point, the OP jams his fingers on his ears, trying to gather any 'positive' replies so he can feel he is right about something.

Ember cant steamroll mid/high level content with WoF alone. If anything, a competent Ember player that put a few formas on her knows how to use her skills with weapons equiped with heat damage.

The synergy around her skills is what makes her strong. While Ember loses damage pretty fast due armor, she still has amazing CC potential with both heat procs and Accelerant. Weapons like the Ignis also helps her to keep that damage high, you really wont go far with only WoF.

Even if they did nerf Ember, people like you would then go after Frost because 'lol avalanche has huge range', Equinox because its 'press 4 to win lolololol', Excal because 'lol he can just cleave everything', Nezha because 'lol his 4 goes through walls', Nova because 'her 4 plus 2 is easy mode lol'.

Stop being a baby and learn how to play solo. If you play on public, you are agreeing that anyone can bring anything, no matter how easy it makes the current mission. You are also free to leave the mission any time you want.

finally someone who doesn't say "Ember is master race but doesn't need a nerf" but it still doesn't explain why it's more expensive than any other prime warframe, every mission in the star chart has one playing public (personally i wish nekros had this status, noone would farm anything again) or why the general consensus for the issue of ruining a new player's game is to ask it nicely to stop.

At least nerf the meta for the ember user to ask if people want them to use WoF

[Amazerath]

Right now if you nerf World on Fire Ember will become almost useless. She's a frame that relies on damage to stay alive because she has so few other options to work with. So this is the kind of thing that would require a rework, not just a simple damage tweak.

Another good thing to keep in mind is that in Warframe there will always be at least one thing that you think is overpowered and should be nerfed/balanced/removed. One day is Ember, the next is Tonkor, then Valkyr, then Atterax, then Mag with a Lanka... The list goes on and there will never be an end to it. I would even go as far as to say that having busted stuff is something that sets Warframe apart from other titles in a positive way, but that's a different discussion. My point here is that we all have to accept that we will have to deal with the occasional OP gear every once in a while. And I think that only really becomes a problem when it's something you start to see everywhere and all the time.

I don't see that many Embers vaporizing enemies to consider her too much of a problem. But I understand she can sometimes "steal the fun" in certain missions. And while I would not like to see current Ember being nerfed, I would probably like to see her becoming more then just non-scaling area damage with some average crowd control capabilities.

[CammiX]

2 minutes ago, Amazerath said:

Another good thing to keep in mind is that in Warframe there will always be at least one thing that you think is overpowered and should be nerfed/balanced/removed. One day is Ember, the next is Tonkor, then Valkyr, then Atterax, then Mag with a Lanka... The list goes on and there will never be an end to it. 

At this point the change would be welcomed. I'd love for it to be something else because i've had the ember problem since day 1 starting this game.
I mean you all got graced by that change before right? let's freshen things up for the newbies!

[(XBOX)Oussii]

2 hours ago, AlexAl3x said:

((((TRIGGER WARNING)))) 

 

Does anyone else who gets into a mission with an Ember Prime get super frustrated?

I get into a mission...feeling great...feeling good...then BOOM!!!

Ember Prime...enters misson.

NOPE!!!!!

The whole map is in flames and I'm standing here like... "There is nothing...to do"  

So am I the only one that would like a change lol??

 

If you complain about that, how about in a defense mission, my Banshee will not let you see any enemy the whole game and you will feel worthless?

There are so many frames that do the same,

either play solo, or accept any frame that comes along

[Amazerath]

Just now, Crunky said:

At this point the change would be welcomed. I'd love for it to be something else because i've had the ember problem since day 1 starting this game.
I mean you all got graced by that change before right? let's freshen things up for the newbies!

Yeah, it's worse for newer players. I understand that. And that's the main reason why I think Ember is going to be changed again sooner or later.

The problem will be figuring out what to do with her. Because she has always been the classic "rush and kill" warframe. People who like her are used to that aspect (myself included). So I think it will be tough to come up with something that doesn't ruin the experience for others but at the same time still manages to please Ember fans in some way.

Until then I'm dealing with the problem by not rushing ahead when I play Ember on lower level missions. If people can run past me and get kills before World on Fire does it's thing they don't get frustrated.

[CammiX]

4 minutes ago, Amazerath said:

Yeah, it's worse for newer players. I understand that. And that's the main reason why I think Ember is going to be changed again sooner or later.

The problem will be figuring out what to do with her. Because she has always been the classic "rush and kill" warframe. People who like her are used to that aspect (myself included). So I think it will be tough to come up with something that doesn't ruin the experience for others but at the same time still manages to please Ember fans in some way.

Until then I'm dealing with the problem by not rushing ahead when I play Ember on lower level missions. If people can run past me and get kills before World on Fire does it's thing they don't get frustrated.

^ the best most useful post in this entire thread. Noone is asking to make ember useless, just to not ruin people's experiences.

[traybong111]

14 minutes ago, Crunky said:

finally someone who doesn't say "Ember is master race but doesn't need a nerf" but it still doesn't explain why it's more expensive than any other prime warframe, every mission in the star chart has one playing public (personally i wish nekros had this status, noone would farm anything again) or why the general consensus for the issue of ruining a new player's game is to ask it nicely to stop.

At least nerf the meta for the ember user to ask if people want them to use WoF

1. In a game like Warframe, with possible exception of Riven, plat value has nothing to do with actual performance and everything to do with rarity and/or hassle of acquisition. 

2. Ember Prime was vaulted before Relics were a thing, so until her unvaulting there were no Relics (or Void Keys that were converted to Relics) for her. 

3. When Ember Prime did get unvaulted, her bp was a rare drop from a rare Relic (Axi E1) which drove its price up. Compare that to, say, Frost Prime who was also vaulted before Relic system; most of his parts are common drops and his rarest part, blueprint, came from a fairly easy-to-acquire Meso Relic, so his set is relatively cheaper than Ember Prime. 

4. Why yes, do cry some more and pretend like you care about balance, or care about new player experience, or whatever else these pathetic whine threads always end up with. 

5. Pubs gonna pub. I have a max efficiency Natural Talent Reckoning spam Oberon Prime that can rush through most Kuva Siphon missions (lv30-40); WoF Embers will rarely get to see an enemy when there's another frame with max efficiency AoE spam build going at her speed. WoF has a base range of 15m and after initial blast it can target only 3 enemies at a time. If WoF is really stealing your kills and fun you're most likely playing at a level that's too trivial for you to care about. 

[Euphoria]

Ember is suppose to ease the run..

Wait til you go high level mission and someone brings mesa.... what to do.. nothing to do...

I was in one of sortie 3 mission and I was Mesa and someone was like "Where are all the mobs ???.... Oh wait we have Mesa"

I only brings ember p to missions that are like <level 40s so I can just speed through the run. Anything above... depends on the mission/modifier (if sorties) and level because anything higher levels, ember is less effective unless you sacrifice tons of efficiency and range for power str which I dont know why you would do that when there are other frames that can do better job at it.

[TheBrsrkr]

3 hours ago, AlexAl3x said:

((((TRIGGER WARNING)))) 

 

Does anyone else who gets into a mission with an Ember Prime get super frustrated?

I get into a mission...feeling great...feeling good...then BOOM!!!

Ember Prime...enters misson.

NOPE!!!!!

The whole map is in flames and I'm standing here like... "There is nothing...to do"  

So am I the only one that would like a change lol??

 

 

3 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Ember doesn’t need a nerf, if anything, she needs a buff so she scales. Equinox, Octavia, and Banshee are all more efficient than ember because they scale. Ember only facerolls up to around level 40 purely from World on Fire. After that, you need Ignis or Atterax or something. 

These two things are the crux of the dilemma. Ember needs a change, not a nerf or a buff. 

No one likes joining a game to do nothing,uchuu as some would want you to believe. World on Fire is a fun concept and a fun skill, but it's implementation means that only Ember actually gets to do anything most of the time. But the thing is, World on Fire isn't actually OP. It's pretty weak, actually. The problem is it's just barely strong enough to run through a mission  and have everyone burn to death. 

 

What I would suggest, rather than saying nerf or before world on fire (neither of which would actually help her or the people playing with her), change the way in which World on Fire itself works. No one can honestly say that watching enemies burn to death as you run past is engaging gameplay. It's a spectacle, sure, but gameplay wise it's still the old press#2win that DE is trying to get rid of. I don't play and have no interest in Ember so I can't really come up with anything good, but I'm sure there's some Ember player here who has an idea. 

[DarkRuler2500]

Well, dont play Earth and Venus only.
Ember has a very straigth decrease in effectiveness on high-level.
 

[Neptlude]

The real question is why doesnt the ember/prime players, run those low level missions in solo?

I really like ember(dat magesty skin tho) I even use her when helping lowbies, but I dont use her WoF unless its needed badly. 

I really hate it when doing some low level alerts for mats and stuff, we got teamed up with low MR players happily killing stuff, then that mr 15 Ember just burns everything.... and the game turns into just chase the ember...

 

Also she needs a rework

Edited October 3, 2017 by Neptlude

[ScribbleClash]

Ember (and Equinox) should still not obliterate enemies in a, what feels like, mile wide area even if they're not high level targets. To me it is quite boring to encounter runs with frames that leave me no chance at getting to do some fighting.

What these ults could use is Oberons Smite treatment. Give World on Fire a base-damage on initial hit and subsequent hits while it keeps running deal a % of the targets max health. Still sufficient in low level, yet even becomes of use (without the augment) in higher levels.

[Soketsu]

20 minutes ago, ScribbleClash said:

Ember (and Equinox) should still not obliterate enemies in a, what feels like, mile wide area even if they're not high level targets. To me it is quite boring to encounter runs with frames that leave me no chance at getting to do some fighting.

What these ults could use is Oberons Smite treatment. Give World on Fire a base-damage on initial hit and subsequent hits while it keeps running deal a % of the targets max health. Still sufficient in low level, yet even becomes of use (without the augment) in higher levels.

If there is higher level mission with higer reward/time spent you may see less of this in mission. And even without those 2 there is plenty way to clean lvl 80 - foes from the start chart.

For equinox I ask you for some precision, do you talk of the bleed proc, or the nuke ? to be sure.

[ScribbleClash]

1 minute ago, Soketsu said:

If there is higher level mission with higer reward/time spent you may see less of this in mission. And even without those 2 there is plenty way to clean lvl 80 - foes from the start chart.

For equinox I ask you for some precision, do you talk of the bleed proc, or the nuke ? to be sure.

Listen, I am able to go high end game, but just because a skill does not work there anymore means it should have free reign to ruin the early game, especially if that impacts new players. This should be a concern and people need to stop justifying the skill just because it falls of in later game. A dull experience is something that should by no means desirable for our new warframe players!

The nuke is fine in my book. However I did not specify a rework for equinox' ability, as the skill only deals slash once, then the proc does the rest. It has the same issue as WoF has in low level content though.

[Soketsu]

1 minute ago, ScribbleClash said:

Listen, I am able to go high end game, but just because a skill does not work there anymore means it should have free reign to ruin the early game, especially if that impacts new players. This should be a concern and people need to stop justifying the skill just because it falls of in later game. A dull experience is something that should by no means desirable for our new warframe players!

The nuke is fine in my book. However I did not specify a rework for equinox' ability, as the skill only deals slash once, then the proc does the rest. It has the same issue as WoF has in low level content though.

I didn't say you won't be able. " If there is higher level mission with higer reward/time spent you may see less of this in mission " in this mission, I talk about non high level mission.

When I was a new player, I was more than happy than an advanced tenno clear the content instead of me, my only goal was to be stronger at this stage. When I wanted to train scan or experiment I did go solo, since I knew I have no more right than the other to play in pub matchmaking, so I can't understand this concern on this way. The only thing I can see is may to provide another type of matchmaking, for newer player who want to play with newer player.

There is and there will never be any kind of real challenge in this game, bot are just to dumb for that. But after it's a personnal opinion, so I admit this is another thing I can't understand.

On this later pointer I don't care you ask for the rework of slash damage, it's a thing who work only on trash to begin with, even with stronger power. A thing who deal damage in % will make my equinox stronger against the level of foes I should face.

 

[Psylosopher]

I was going to make my own post but I saw this, so I am posting this here.

I've been playing a lot of Ember and I agree, she needs to be changed. I don't think a "nerf this" and "buff that" is what we need though. Need a bit of a mixup and change of abilities / augments. Here's what I imagined.

Ember Revisited brainstorm.

Abilities:

Passive: Addition. Does not take damage from being on fire, rest is the same. (energy regen + slight power strength increase)

1: New: Flamethrower, holds out hand (operator LMB animation) and does the "Ignis flamethrower" with ramping damage, range and energy cost similar to banshees resonating quake. This is a toggle, and you may move around / change direction. Similar to Atlas' 3, Petrify. If empowered use both hands [operator E animation with the last few frames being held / looped] (doubling cost, aoe, damage)

2: Accelerant. Same as before (stun + makes enemies take more fire damage) with additional ability to empower the next ability used.

3: Fireball. Changes; chargable, heldlonger, bigger fireball = More damage + bigger AoE. (like hydroid, but cooler) If empowered : Leaves a ring for additional damage overtime (Like how Fireblast is now). Think of a pyroblast from WoW if fully charged

4: World on Fire. Timed actived buff: similar to Loki Stealth. Self immolate (procs heat on self, thus passive as well); very short range but high damage burn to all nearby enemies. Weapons do bonus fire damage.

Augments: 
1: Flamewall, vaporizes small arms fire. (hitscan shots but not projectiles). Like an expanding Electric Shield infront of Ember. Only active while channeling obviously.
2: Same as before. 
3: Combined effects. (Fireball Frenzy+Fire Fright)
4: Firequake, enemies hit by your abilities while Wold on Fire is active have a 100% of being knocked down.

Possible Issues: Ember will be a very high energy cost warframe. May be able to give self infinite energy with 4 if modded for it. 

Conclusion: I think this would make have a much more active playstyle and just be more fun. You would likely want to keep up 4 as much as you can since it will regen your energy. But you would like to wait for some to be built up before unleashing huge damage. I see a lot of Embers using Ignis as their primary so I think it as her 1 would make a lot of sense. It adds to the flavour of Ember a lot. Keeping up her 4 so you can keep pumping out damage is how I'd imagine keeping a fire going. You will not want to exhaust all your energy so your fire goes "out."

 

What do you guys think?

[Soketsu]

I like

30 minutes ago, Psylosopher said:

I was going to make my own post but I saw this, so I am posting this here.

I've been playing a lot of Ember and I agree, she needs to be changed. I don't think a "nerf this" and "buff that" is what we need though. Need a bit of a mixup and change of abilities / augments. Here's what I imagined.

Ember Revisited brainstorm.

Abilities:

Passive: Addition. Does not take damage from being on fire, rest is the same. (energy regen + slight power strength increase)

1: New: Flamethrower, holds out hand (operator LMB animation) and does the "Ignis flamethrower" with ramping damage, range and energy cost similar to banshees resonating quake. This is a toggle, and you may move around / change direction. Similar to Atlas' 3, Petrify. If empowered use both hands [operator E animation with the last few frames being held / looped] (doubling cost, aoe, damage)

2: Accelerant. Same as before (stun + makes enemies take more fire damage) with additional ability to empower the next ability used.

3: Fireball. Changes; chargable, heldlonger, bigger fireball = More damage + bigger AoE. (like hydroid, but cooler) If empowered : Leaves a ring for additional damage overtime (Like how Fireblast is now). Think of a pyroblast from WoW if fully charged

4: World on Fire. Timed actived buff: similar to Loki Stealth. Self immolate (procs heat on self, thus passive as well); very short range but high damage burn to all nearby enemies. Weapons do bonus fire damage.

Augments: 
1: Flamewall, vaporizes small arms fire. (hitscan shots but not projectiles). Like an expanding Electric Shield infront of Ember. Only active while channeling obviously.
2: Same as before. 
3: Combined effects. (Fireball Frenzy+Fire Fright)
4: Firequake, enemies hit by your abilities while Wold on Fire is active have a 100% of being knocked down.

Possible Issues: Ember will be a very high energy cost warframe. May be able to give self infinite energy with 4 if modded for it. 

Conclusion: I think this would make have a much more active playstyle and just be more fun. You would likely want to keep up 4 as much as you can since it will regen your energy. But you would like to wait for some to be built up before unleashing huge damage. I see a lot of Embers using Ignis as their primary so I think it as her 1 would make a lot of sense. It adds to the flavour of Ember a lot. Keeping up her 4 so you can keep pumping out damage is how I'd imagine keeping a fire going. You will not want to exhaust all your energy so your fire goes "out."

 

What do you guys think?

I like your new 4th, ember will be able to do a better raw dps against heavy target/boss

[aidan890]

Hey all,

I am just letting you all know that I have extensively cleaned up this thread for Off-Topic posts and have locked it as the majority of what was being posted was not related to the initial topic.

[DE]Aidan