Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?

[JuicyPop]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)CaseFace8 said:

Every time this topic comes up I really can't understand why people are so against universal vacuum.

Like do you think "no please, I don't want the polymer bundle over there picked up. I am avoiding it on purpose and I don't want it suddenly picked up for me."

or is it "I enjoy stopping to pick up small resources that are located in all corners of this massive tile-set so much. I mean, I play this game for the quick movement, but stopping to pick up things really sells it for me"

 

Universal vacuum hurts no one and gives players more choice for companions. People will still choose sentinels for certain things (ammo case, scanning, avoiding pet up-keep) and more people will choose kubrows and kavats for the perks they have. 

People really don't seem to grasp the fact that we already have universal vacuum because Sentinels have become a default element of play for 95+% of players. The real ask here is for an environment where using Kubrows/Kavats can be an actual reasonable choice that doesn't rely on a player simply not caring about their efficiency. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by JuicyPop

[RX-3DR]

Allow me to pose a very simple question to those who insists that universal vacuum is "required".

Why not just remove item drops entirely and make it such that players immediately obtain items from kills? The reasoning of quality of life is extremely subjective, just because you experience it as such does not mean that everyone has the same experience, neither does it mean that everyone doing it has the same reasons.

IMO, Vacuum outside of Carrier was a mistake. They should have tweaked with Vacuum in comparison with the other Sentinels and just left it be. This Vacuum obsessed culture is ridiculous.

[KaizergidorahXi]

6 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Allow me to pose a very simple question to those who insists that universal vacuum is "required".

Why not just remove item drops entirely and make it such that players immediately obtain items from kills? The reasoning of quality of life is extremely subjective, just because you experience it as such does not mean that everyone has the same experience, neither does it mean that everyone doing it has the same reasons.

IMO, Vacuum outside of Carrier was a mistake. They should have tweaked with Vacuum in comparison with the other Sentinels and just left it be. This Vacuum obsessed culture is ridiculous.

Completely agree. I'm not one of those "git gud" mentality players but...Vacuum is not required at all. Is it nice? Yes. But necessary, as a lot of people keep crying? Absolutely not.

[Mavor]

9 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

It's a credit sink, so yes it does serve a purpose. Just like the credit costs for Baro purchases.

I get that its a credit sink - but it nevertheless, its pointless. Its just an artificial obstacle that the player has to deal with every few days for no other reason than being a credit sink. Those kinds of mechanics are never fun or useful - they're just something else a player has to worry about, while not providing any meaningful gameplay or content.

At least with Baro you are making one-time purchases. Pet stabilization is something that must be dealt with every few days (or every day if you're anal about it) - its an upkeep layer that simply has no value. Maybe if it boosted pet health by an extra % - that'd be different, but no, it just maintains the pets normal health pool.

[Terrornaut]

31 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Allow me to pose a very simple question to those who insists that universal vacuum is "required".

Why not just remove item drops entirely and make it such that players immediately obtain items from kills? The reasoning of quality of life is extremely subjective, just because you experience it as such does not mean that everyone has the same experience, neither does it mean that everyone doing it has the same reasons.

IMO, Vacuum outside of Carrier was a mistake. They should have tweaked with Vacuum in comparison with the other Sentinels and just left it be. This Vacuum obsessed culture is ridiculous.

The only stat I'm not outdone on missions is possibly item pickups (which is usually ammo/orb related) and damage received.  Its funny, the difference in mentality - I sometimes pay for things like forma and potatoes and will buy small plat if I need something rushed because I work 60 hours a week, have best friends families studies and soon to be a gf, but I still hit some of my daily caps, reforma items, farm relics, do sorties.  Extending a 30 minute mission by possibly an added total of 30-45 sec because of rolling during combat or dodging towards drops is not the efficiency tank claimed to be.  Most people aren't efficient anyway, they're slow to acquire targets, not playing with purely maximized loadouts, get knocked down, occasionally run the wrong direction in a tile instead of towards the objective.

Wide range vacuum can help when you're just sitting around in a frost bubble and will be instagibbed if you step outside at level 100-150 content, sure, but otherwise, lol.  This is not a serious factor that slows me down, reduces my damage, survivability, or adds to my grind time in the game that is an ultimate grind.  It is not objectively required, nor are sentinels anywhere near god tier of utility or damage in comparison to a modded out pet.  Vacuum might be the biggest thing they offer beyond scans.

 

Not denying there's a want for this, but overblowing it to MANDATORY OR LITERALLY UNPLAYABLEEEEEE is just going over the top.  Plenty of people simply do not give a S#&$ about vacuum.

[Kinetos]

I don't want random trash salvage I already have millions of flying at the camera. Increased pickup radius or pickup on kill or area looting, not innate vacuum. 

[tyrannicaltyrant]

we don't need universal vacuum. You have a choice, vacuum, or kavat.

Stop being a dingus.

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

48 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Allow me to pose a very simple question to those who insists that universal vacuum is "required".

Why not just remove item drops entirely and make it such that players immediately obtain items from kills? The reasoning of quality of life is extremely subjective, just because you experience it as such does not mean that everyone has the same experience, neither does it mean that everyone doing it has the same reasons.

IMO, Vacuum outside of Carrier was a mistake. They should have tweaked with Vacuum in comparison with the other Sentinels and just left it be. This Vacuum obsessed culture is ridiculous.

Whether is is "required" or not is not the issue. It is the player perception that it is more useful, and the most efficient way to gather resources. If you only needed 100 of a resource to craft something it wouldn't be a big deal to go pick up a resource. That fact that you need hundreds or thousands means that people look for efficiency. Vacuum is undeniably the most efficient tool when farming resources. People want universal vacuum because they want to be efficient, while also using the equipment that they want.

You say sentinel vacuum was a mistake. Why? The reason it was done was because an overwhelming majority of players used only carrier. If 90% of your player base is using a single option, then clearly there is a balance issue. They added sentinel vacuum so that people would choose other sentinels, which it did accomplish (I don't know the numbers, but the dev streams showed the numbers before and after).

I believe that universal vacuum would then even out those numbers even more, and you'd see a lot more kubrows and kavats.

IMO the reason they leave drops in the game and not make them instant acquire, is that visually seeing the rewards you get for a kill is more satisfying (even if the reward itself isn't good). You can basically see that you are getting something for the activity you are doing.

 

[TennoPain]

3 m not enough for me still wont use kittys and doggys even tho i like them 

[JuicyPop]

3 hours ago, tyrannicaltyrant said:

we don't need universal vacuum. You have a choice, vacuum, or kavat.

Stop being a dingus.

"You have a choice between something useful and something that is afraid to walk through open doors."

[SpinnningSideKick]

I dont think we need a universal vacuum. We got a super vacuum with sentinels, a short range one on all warframes. The way I see it, warframes are mobile, fast and easy to move around a map with. We are space ninjas! Leaping 10 meters and more with the touch of a button! 

 

Revel in your capabilities. Be the space ninja!

[brawler58]

I just don't like the fact that we're literally punished for using companions hence this "universal vacuum" I can't even call it universal. They're worried that most people won't use sentinels so they just leave it as is, with barely any people using their pets 

3 meters? I checked today and that doesn't seem like 3 at all. What would be nice if people would be able to use whatever sentinel/pet they want without any downsides. I personally don't see why some people at DE find univac a bad thing, I just can't

[Hypernaut1]

What exactly do you guys NEED to pick up all of the time, if you're not a new player? 

As a vet

1. I rarely need ammo drops for most of my weapons

2. Have an abundance of most resources. 

3. Don't rely on health/energy orbs

4. Don't rely on credit drops

5. Have most rare mods, and rare mods that do drop are easy enough to pick up with my super mobile ninja skills anyway (as is all loot for that matter)

 

What do you guys need vacuum for exactly again? To feel good?

I assure you, if you give up vacuum, You won't really notice a big difference in your effectiveness. It's great to use with ammo hungry weapons, I use vacuum for those loadouts. But I use it as a tool, not a necessity.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[SpinnningSideKick]

You guys do understand that if you pressure DE into a universal vacuum, they are going to have to nerf the companions damage and defensive stats to balance them out? Sentinels damage is so crappy most folks dont even arm them! 

Its really simple. You have a choice. Make one and deal with the fact that sentinels and companions are different and offer a different play style. One is for efficiency and does no damage worth noting even with a riven. Or a companion that does a great deal of damage, has massive benefits to your gameplay with enhanced crits or resource drops. Make a choice and live with it. They are different and we are all better off for the variety.

[SpinnningSideKick]

What exactly do you guys NEED to pick up all of the time, if you're not a new player? 

As a vet

1. I rarely need all drops with most

2. Have an abundance of most resources. 

3. Don't rely on health/energy orbs

4. Don't rely on credit drops

5. Have most rare mods, and rare mods that do drop are easy enough to pick up with my super mobile ninja skills anyway (as is all loot for that matter)

 

What do you guys need vacuum for exactly again? To feel good?

I assure you, if you give up vacuum, You won't really notice a big difference in your effectiveness. It's great to use with ammo hungry weapons, I use vacuum for those loadouts. But I use it as a tool, not a necessity.

Edited just now by Hypernaut1

 

 

 

 

Well said man. I agree completely. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by SpinnningSideKick

[Vortiene]

33 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

What exactly do you guys NEED to pick up all of the time, if you're not a new player? 

As a vet

1. I rarely need ammo drops for most of my weapons

2. Have an abundance of most resources. 

3. Don't rely on health/energy orbs

4. Don't rely on credit drops

5. Have most rare mods, and rare mods that do drop are easy enough to pick up with my super mobile ninja skills anyway (as is all loot for that matter)

 

What do you guys need vacuum for exactly again? To feel good?

I assure you, if you give up vacuum, You won't really notice a big difference in your effectiveness. It's great to use with ammo hungry weapons, I use vacuum for those loadouts. But I use it as a tool, not a necessity.

God forbid people get the drops they earned by killing mobs. It's a convenience thing that for many far outweighs any other option. Vacuum makes the game a lot better for most people, giving up vacuum makes the experience worse. I can't see any real reason to not have univac especially considering most people use it regardless.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Anonymous10081

[SpinnningSideKick]

2 minutes ago, Anonymous10081 said:

God forbid people get the drops they earned by killing mobs. It's a convenience thing that for many far outweighs any other option. Vacuum makes the game a lot better for most people, giving up vacuum makes the experience worse. I can't see any real reason to not have univac especially considering most people use it regardless.

Try an experiment.

1.)Equip your fave sentinel, give it a riven, forma it and build for damage.

2.)Take it out, kill some stuff with your sentinel. Time how long it takes. 

3.)Now! Take out any companion, build for damage with no forma. Go kill some stuff and see how long it takes your companion to kill the same stuff the sentinel did. 

 

 A fairly plain jane companion completely blows away the damage and survival potential of any sentinel. There is one good reason why to take a companion over a sentinel.

Not to mention the benefits of kavats. Watching the entire screen turn red with crits from procs and AoE weapons is hilarious and awesome when Charm goes off.

If DE caves on universal vacuum, they will have to either buff the damage and survival potential of sentinels, or nerf the ever loving crap out of companions to balance them out. Then they will pretty much be the same thing. That is not variety. Lets have variety instead of convenience.

I gave up vacuum like a year ago for the benefits of companions and life is grand! I only use sentinels when I have lotus kubrows brewing in the incubator. I dont miss it at all, its not inconvenient to make a couple more bullet jumps to collect my goodies. If you are too lazy to make a couple more jumps to collect your reward for slaughtering mobs, that is entirely on you.

Be a space ninja. 

 

 

[krc473]

1 minute ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

If DE caves on universal vacuum, they will have to either buff the damage and survival potential of sentinels, or nerf the ever loving crap out of companions to balance them out. Then they will pretty much be the same thing. That is not variety. Lets have variety instead of convenience.

I gave up vacuum like a year ago for the benefits of companions and life is grand!

In the same situation here. I gave up on sentinels because I like Kavats better. I have not used Vacuum in a very long time. I wish someone would actually explain what the real negative impact of not having Vacuum is. - You miss a few loot drops? So what.

Univeral Vacuum: I do not care if they do it or dont.

Nerfing Companions: I care a lot. This would probably ruin the game for me. I do not like sentinels.

--

To everyone whining about Universal Vacuum and how sentinels are invaluable. Put your sentinel away, run 20 missions without it. Come back with the results.

[Hypernaut1]

4 hours ago, krc473 said:

In the same situation here. I gave up on sentinels because I like Kavats better. I have not used Vacuum in a very long time. I wish someone would actually explain what the real negative impact of not having Vacuum is. - You miss a few loot drops? So what.

Univeral Vacuum: I do not care if they do it or dont.

Nerfing Companions: I care a lot. This would probably ruin the game for me. I do not like sentinels.

--

To everyone whining about Universal Vacuum and how sentinels are invaluable. Put your sentinel away, run 20 missions without it. Come back with the results.

30% less alloy plates!.. The horror!!!

Edited November 9, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Vortiene]

23 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Try an experiment.

1.)Equip your fave sentinel, give it a riven, forma it and build for damage.

2.)Take it out, kill some stuff with your sentinel. Time how long it takes. 

3.)Now! Take out any companion, build for damage with no forma. Go kill some stuff and see how long it takes your companion to kill the same stuff the sentinel did. 

 

 A fairly plain jane companion completely blows away the damage and survival potential of any sentinel. There is one good reason why to take a companion over a sentinel.

Not to mention the benefits of kavats. Watching the entire screen turn red with crits from procs and AoE weapons is hilarious and awesome when Charm goes off.

If DE caves on universal vacuum, they will have to either buff the damage and survival potential of sentinels, or nerf the ever loving crap out of companions to balance them out. Then they will pretty much be the same thing. That is not variety. Lets have variety instead of convenience.

I gave up vacuum like a year ago for the benefits of companions and life is grand! I only use sentinels when I have lotus kubrows brewing in the incubator. I dont miss it at all, its not inconvenient to make a couple more bullet jumps to collect my goodies. If you are too lazy to make a couple more jumps to collect your reward for slaughtering mobs, that is entirely on you.

Be a space ninja. 

 

 

I don't use companions for damage, I do damage just fine on my own. They wouldn't have to buff sentinels at all, sentinels have their own niche already aside from damage. And I disagree, it would add variety because the people who use sentinels purely for the huge QoL that vaccuum adds would be able to actually:

1. Use another, more interesting mod in that slot

2. Use a kavat/kubrow while keeping the ability to loot more easily

3. Be even able to go without a companion at all and still keep the thing they care about the most, which is the easy looting. 

Easier looting shouldn't be tied to a mod, and it especially shouldn't be tied to a particular companion type. People even kill themselves to get their sentinels back just because of how useful vacuum is. It would a change for the better.

[Vortiene]

7 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

30% less about plates!.. The horror!!!

Not everyone who plays this game has massive stockpiles of resources you know. 

[SpinnningSideKick]

1 minute ago, Anonymous10081 said:

I don't use companions for damage, I do damage just fine on my own. They wouldn't have to buff sentinels at all, sentinels have their own niche already aside from damage. And I disagree, it would add variety because the people who use sentinels purely for the huge QoL that vaccuum adds would be able to actually:

1. Use another, more interesting mod in that slot

2. Use a kavat/kubrow while keeping the ability to loot more easily

3. Be even able to go without a companion at all and still keep the thing they care about the most, which is the easy looting. 

Easier looting shouldn't be tied to a mod, and it especially shouldn't be tied to a particular companion type. People even kill themselves to get their sentinels back just because of how useful vacuum is. It would a change for the better.

That was fast. Did you already have a bunch of forma on your sentinel along with a riven?

Would have taken me a solid 4-5 hours. To put a bunch of forma on a sentinel. 

Good work man!

[Hypernaut1]

17 minutes ago, Anonymous10081 said:

Not everyone who plays this game has massive stockpiles of resources you know. 

Yeah they do

[Jaysus41]

I'd like to know how some players get off calling vacuum users lazy because they don't want to deal with pickups, yet praise the damage their other companions do because they don't want to do all the killing themselves.

Seriously, you have 3 weapons and a Warframe to kill stuff. I find using a companion for anything other than utility is just wrong, a waste of potential.

[SpinnningSideKick]

To be clear Im saying folks that cant use their bullet jump to collect their loot when they have companions equipped are lazy. 

Not players that use vacuum. You want the convenience, good for you. The option is there, enjoy it. You are not lazy, you are taking advantage of the capability of a sentinel. 

The folks I am calling lazy are the ones that complain about having to make a couple bullet jumps to collect their loot when using a companion as a justification for a universal vacuum. Companions offer different benefits than sentinels, and thats just the way it is. 

Folks want all the benefits of companions and sentinels rolled into one. I get that, its obvious. I dont personally think it should be done, as it would make the difference between the two entirely meaningless. If companions offered a vacuum the same as sentinels, no one would use anything else. Companions do more damage, are tougher, and buff the capabilities of an entire group (red crits for everyone!).