Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?

[JuicyPop]

2 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Again, I have yet to see a sentinel kill a level 80 juggernaut in one hit. Sentinels are ok, but they only provide trivial bonuses. Carrier is great for running weapons with poor ammo economy, and the Diriga is great for a bit of CC, but largely the other sentinels are incredibly redundant or outright useless. As far as sentinel guns go, the only really worthwhile ones are the Vulklok sniper, for decent range, and the Sweeper/Prime shotugn, for decent AoE status proccing. Almost all the people I know can't stand the sentinel guns, and the few that ever consider using them are constantly complaining to the rest of us about mod conflicts. 

Kubrows and Kavats on the other hand, are not just survivable, but much higher damage, and overall have more helpful abilities. Sahasa gets you amazing finisher attacks (the sort that kill heavy units at high level with complete ease) as well as frequent loot drops (normally including numerous energy orbs in one spot). Sunika gets you the same finisher attack. Huras stealth is more than twice the range of the Shade sentinel. Raksa gets a really good AoE fear, as well as shield restore. Ardaza Kavats get to add 60% bonus crit chance as an additive value to all attacks, which is outright godly on so many weapons, scaling crits up entire tiers, and this functions in an AoE. Smeeta kavats can outright boost all crits to orange tier, or can double your loot, and a whole bunch of stuff.

All of this is whilst being incredibly tanky, revivable, doing solid damage that scales quite well into late game, and being able to be rapidly healed with a few melee hits.

Saying Pets aren't better than sentinels in "any way shape or form" is a poorly misinformed statement. Look, you don't like using them, that's fine. But, you can't ignore the areas where they demonstrably excel over Sentinels. I don't like Sentinels, but I don't try to pretend that nobody uses them, or that they're somehow inferior in literally every way, because they aren't. They're simply less combat-focused, and more tactical and QoL focused.

If Kubrows and Kavats got a universal vacuum, or if it was applied without need for companions, I don't really think Sentinels would be used much at all. The only thing that really holds people back is the fact that they don't want to have to freeze/thaw their pets to prevent damage, but that's not even much of an issue at all.

Of course not, looting is not a skill based mechanic. It's an effort based mechanic. If you're doing some crazy farming scheme where you sit still and never do anything but spam, you don't deserve your loot. If you're actively moving around and killing, you're picking up your loot as you go already. 

I know Warframe already has arcade-like elements, but that doesn't mean it deserves to become more so. If you're going to argue for a universal vacuum, then you might as well just argue for loot to be automatically acquired (except for energy/ammo/health).

I really don't think that looting without a sentinel is difficult in any way, and we've already been handed a 3m vacuum for warframes, so you don't even need to hit the precise hitbox to loot stuff. I think if you're spending that much time focusing on loot and grinding, you aren't even playing the game to enjoy it regardless. That's why I play missions by trialling new builds, tactics or team compositions. We get whatever resources we need while we practice, and we get a lot more enjoyment out of it than some people seem to be having.

I get why people want Universal Vacuum. I get why you're arguing for it. It wouldn't be a deal-breaker if we had it, but it's something I would prefer to not have, and I'm voicing my opinion on this thread so that it's understood that not everyone is all for it. If the vocal forum members got everything they wanted without people speaking out against it, the game would be utterly horrible. This isn't as big of an issue, but it's still just something I feel I should state my piece on.

Please try to be more considerate, since everyone's opinion is their own, and try to refrain from such strong hyperbole. It's not very constructive, and isn't likely to change anyone's mind the way rational conversation will. 

Utility > Damage when our frames are more than capable of trivializing all relevant content. At the point where the extra damage would start to matter, the dogs and cats would be getting oneshot by level 250s after their boneheaded AI gets them stuck on a door. Outside of the Huras' amazing cloak and the Smeeta's rare double loot roll, they're feel good companions that don't add nearly as much relevant value as the numbers might lead you to believe. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, GreyEnneract said:

Like I said earlier, Archwing has had Univac and even universal energy regen for years already.
Didn't see anyone up in arms about that.

Well, it's much harder to manually get loot in AW.

In regular gameplay it's rather trivial to hop around the play field.... But I know I know, people are going to claim that grabbing loot is the most awful painstaking thing to do in a game where we can deftly maneuver with nimble controls.

[Top_Kekkonen]

39 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Well, it's much harder to manually get loot in AW.

In regular gameplay it's rather trivial to hop around the play field.... But I know I know, people are going to claim that grabbing loot is the most awful painstaking thing to do in a game where we can deftly maneuver with nimble controls.

You would be that type of player that goes into the options and turns of univac(12m), okay that's fine, I completely understand. What's your objection again?

Edited November 11, 2017 by Top_Kekkonen

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

So you dont want to play Saryn because shes too powerful and it distracts from the game play. 

No. Saryn's gameplay is brain dead. Just standing in one place doing nothing. It's passive and tedious.

2 hours ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

I was just using Saryn as an example of what can be done with companions capabilities. But it worked just the same. You acknowledge that "she dosnt need more damage" and further add its unreliable. Charms damage buff is only one aspect of its capability. It does a lot more, up too and including a resource boost which is random, but regular, every 9.5 minutes, thats 4 times it will proc on an 8 round run ( not even really a long run by a lot of folks standards)

So you dont want to play Saryn because shes too powerful and it distracts from the game play.  Okay. Fair point, even as shes not regarded as one of the most powerful frames anymore. If she is, Im not seeing it. I only see her in use once in a while, and certainly dont see many folks saying shes one of the best anymore. Definitely not showing up in another forum thread today of most popular and useful, or even just favourite warframes in current use. Im seeing a lot of Loki, Octavia and Chroma being talked about in recent threads. 

So despite it being too powerful for you to play as its no fun, you want this to be more popular and more common (from more people, and new players using them) with additional benefits? 

You would then be advocating for a game mechanic that takes away from not only your own game, but everyone else that uses them. That isnt quality of life, thats just straight up ruining the game. The very opposite of your own goal. 

This is exactly why I argue against it. The companions are already quite powerful and effective( they definitely have less utility than sentinels, but are still effective), adding to them would turn the game into a  "mast****tion simulator"  (in your own words). 

First of all, don't put your own words into my mouth. It's disgusting. You assumed I don't like Saryn because she's "powerful" and attempted to make an argument from it. No. I don't like Saryn because her gameplay is passive and dull, and her kit is unreliable and all over the place. She has horrible energy economy and her only survivability tool is cr@p, especially considering one of her abilities is supposed to buff melee weapons. She's a poorly designed, buggy warframe not too dissimilar to the current state of Pets. I don't like Saryn for the same reasons I wouldn't play an invincible puddle simulator (Hydroid). And for exact same reason I consider manual ammo pickups a boring, dull and completely misplaced exercise for this particular game.

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

4 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Again, I have yet to see a sentinel kill a level 80 juggernaut in one hit. Sentinels are ok, but they only provide trivial bonuses.

 I can kill Juggernaut myself, thank you very much. And as far as I know this was nerfed a few months ago. Your only argument is that pets deal damage. Not really, they don't. Most of them can barely manage a lvl 60 enemy and you'll kill those enemies yourself much faster. The damage they deal is also reliant to an incredibly dumb AI they posess, which is... yeah good luck with that RNG, m8.

4 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Carrier is great for running weapons with poor ammo economy, and the Diriga is great for a bit of CC, but largely the other sentinels are incredibly redundant or outright useless. As far as sentinel guns go, the only really worthwhile ones are the Vulklok sniper, for decent range, and the Sweeper/Prime shotugn, for decent AoE status proccing. Almost all the people I know can't stand the sentinel guns, and the few that ever consider using them are constantly complaining to the rest of us about mod conflicts. 

 You either somehow managed to skip sentinel gameplay entirely and don't know anything about it. Or you're actually intentionally lying to prove a point. Sentinels give you shield, overshield, health regen, sanctuary, usual ammo\loot radar, ammo mutation, invisibility, auto-scanning, crowd control with and without weapons, status with firerate weapons like prism burst laser, damage with weapons like Vulklok and sweeper prime, insane crowd control by spreading status with burst laser and diriga etc... oh and they also resurrect you. 

4 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Kubrows and Kavats on the other hand, are not just survivable, but much higher damage, and overall have more helpful abilities. Sahasa gets you amazing finisher attacks (the sort that kill heavy units at high level with complete ease) as well as frequent loot drops (normally including numerous energy orbs in one spot). Sunika gets you the same finisher attack. Huras stealth is more than twice the range of the Shade sentinel. Raksa gets a really good AoE fear, as well as shield restore. Ardaza Kavats get to add 60% bonus crit chance as an additive value to all attacks, which is outright godly on so many weapons, scaling crits up entire tiers, and this functions in an AoE. Smeeta kavats can outright boost all crits to orange tier, or can double your loot, and a whole bunch of stuff.

See, the only reason people don't use them more often is because they don't work with vacuum. Listen, you're missing the point here. We're not talking which is better dogs or sentinels. We're talking about the fact that any companion without vacuum will be unpopular and underused in this game.

 No matter how useful pets are, people simply won't bother using them unless they have vacuum. 

[Top_Kekkonen]

26 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

No. Saryn's gameplay is brain dead. Just standing in one place doing nothing. It's passive and tedious.

First of all, don't put your own words into my mouth. It's disgusting. You assumed I don't like Saryn because she's "powerful" and attempted to make an argument from it. No. I don't like Saryn because her gameplay is passive and dull, and her kit is unreliable and all over the place. She has horrible energy economy and her only survivability tool is cr@p, especially considering one of her abilities is supposed to buff melee weapons. She's a poorly designed, buggy warframe not too dissimilar to the current state of Pets. I don't like Saryn for the same reasons I wouldn't play an invincible puddle simulator (Hydroid). And for exact same reason I consider manual ammo pickups a boring, dull and completely misplaced exercise for this particular game.

 

I just want to add to this. One of the best things about most of the arguments for Univac(12m) is that it includes the option to turn it off in the menus, so it's optional.

@SpinnningSideKick 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Top_Kekkonen

[Xarteros]

2 hours ago, JuicyPop said:

Utility > Damage when our frames are more than capable of trivializing all relevant content. At the point where the extra damage would start to matter, the dogs and cats would be getting oneshot by level 250s after their boneheaded AI gets them stuck on a door. Outside of the Huras' amazing cloak and the Smeeta's rare double loot roll, they're feel good companions that don't add nearly as much relevant value as the numbers might lead you to believe. 

But that's my point. They have good utility. The only thing that they don't have that falls in the utility category is loot vacuum, which our warframes and operators now have 3m of.

Dogs and cats getting oneshot by level 250s? Too bad. My sentinel died before the enemies reached 80 because of an unlucky napalm shot. No second chances, all utility lost.

And yet again, my kubrow can one-shot high level juggernauts. Frames can't do that, and very few weapons can come close, it's incredibly convenient to have such a high damage option. I love the Huras cloak, but I also love the Sahasa loot drops, the Raksa fear, and the Ardaza's amazing crit booster. There's so much more utility to be had in the pets than there is from the sentinels. The only downside is a lack of loot, but considering all the upsides, I feel that it's completely fair. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

5 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Of course not, looting is not a skill based mechanic. It's an effort based mechanic. If you're doing some crazy farming scheme where you sit still and never do anything but spam, you don't deserve your loot. If you're actively moving around and killing, you're picking up your loot as you go already. 

Looting is a time waste mechanic, m8. And "crazy farming" whatever that is, is in the game provided by the tools DE gave us. Saying that people don't deserve the rewards they get by playing the game with the tools Devs provided is hypocritical at best.

5 hours ago, Xarteros said:

I know Warframe already has arcade-like elements, but that doesn't mean it deserves to become more so. If you're going to argue for a universal vacuum, then you might as well just argue for loot to be automatically acquired (except for energy/ammo/health).

I really don't think that looting without a sentinel is difficult in any way, and we've already been handed a 3m vacuum for warframes, so you don't even need to hit the precise hitbox to loot stuff. I think if you're spending that much time focusing on loot and grinding, you aren't even playing the game to enjoy it regardless. That's why I play missions by trialling new builds, tactics or team compositions. We get whatever resources we need while we practice, and we get a lot more enjoyment out of it than some people seem to be having.

Manual looting is not a question of difficulty - it's not difficult. It adds nothing but tedium to the gameplay, it's just a meaningless mechanic. And when it's entirely skippable with a vacuum, the real question is, if it's needed in the game at all? Vacuum is already in the game. The only thing lack of proper UV does at this point, is making Pets unpopular with the general playerbase. Nothing else. Period.

 People who don't want to engage with manual pickups simply never use pets. That's all. 

But that also means that same people can't use pets because they don't have vacuum. And considering it's an overwhelming majority of the playerbase, I'd say it's a problem. 

5 hours ago, Xarteros said:

I get why people want Universal Vacuum. I get why you're arguing for it. It wouldn't be a deal-breaker if we had it, but it's something I would prefer to not have, and I'm voicing my opinion on this thread so that it's understood that not everyone is all for it. If the vocal forum members got everything they wanted without people speaking out against it, the game would be utterly horrible. This isn't as big of an issue, but it's still just something I feel I should state my piece on.

Please try to be more considerate, since everyone's opinion is their own, and try to refrain from such strong hyperbole. It's not very constructive, and isn't likely to change anyone's mind the way rational conversation will. 

 I know. That's why in my threads I suggested Vacuum to be adjustable from the menu. To have a simple slider, so people who dislike Vacuum could switch it off or change the range of it between max 12 meters and min 3 meters according to their preferences.

Edited November 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

10 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

But that's my point. They have good utility. The only thing that they don't have that falls in the utility category is loot vacuum, which our warframes and operators now have 3m of.

Dogs and cats getting oneshot by level 250s? Too bad. My sentinel died before the enemies reached 80 because of an unlucky napalm shot. No second chances, all utility lost.

And yet again, my kubrow can one-shot high level juggernauts. Frames can't do that, and very few weapons can come close, it's incredibly convenient to have such a high damage option. I love the Huras cloak, but I also love the Sahasa loot drops, the Raksa fear, and the Ardaza's amazing crit booster. There's so much more utility to be had in the pets than there is from the sentinels. The only downside is a lack of loot, but considering all the upsides, I feel that it's completely fair. 

 This downside makes all the difference. "Fair" is not an issue here at all. Vacuum is something active throughout the whole mission. You can rely on it. You can trust it would be there.

 You can't rely on dogs killing juggernaut. Or any of the bonuses you've mentioned except the Huras' invisibility. You can't rely on pets doing anything in the game because all of their abilities are pretty much random. Pets' abilities would be a nice bonus if we had something reliable like UV to serve as a foundation.

 As long as there is no UV in the game pets will always be a niche mechanic. When they could be much more. You're shooting yourself in the foot here, m8. If pets are more popular, they'll get more attention from the devs. Which means better AI, more utility mods, reworks and cosmetics. Last time pets got any update was when they nerfed Smeeta a year back. That's it. Nothing since then except maybe a couple of armor sets and bugged low-effort skins.

Edited November 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

21 minutes ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

I just want to add to this. One of the best things about most of the arguments for Univac(12m) is that it includes the option to turn it off in the menus, so it's optional.

@SpinnningSideKick 

Exactly.

[SpinnningSideKick]

34 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

No. Saryn's gameplay is brain dead. Just standing in one place doing nothing. It's passive and tedious.

First of all, don't put your own words into my mouth. It's disgusting. You assumed I don't like Saryn because she's "powerful" and attempted to make an argument from it. No. I don't like Saryn because her gameplay is passive and dull, and her kit is unreliable and all over the place. She has horrible energy economy and her only survivability tool is cr@p, especially considering one of her abilities is supposed to buff melee weapons. She's a poorly designed, buggy warframe not too dissimilar to the current state of Pets. I don't like Saryn for the same reasons I wouldn't play an invincible puddle simulator (Hydroid). And for exact same reason I consider manual ammo pickups a boring, dull and completely misplaced exercise for this particular game.

 

No i didnt. Its your words, direct quotes. If you meant something different, you should be clear. Take your time, there is no time limit. 

I didnt assume you dont like Saryn. You said it yourself. 

9 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 As I said, without universal vacuum there will be no new players using and bying kubrows. I don't remember the last time I heard anyone trying to sell a Kubrow in the trade chat. I'm not even talking about bying.

I deleted my Saryn. Mast****tion simulator gameplay is no fun for me. And she doesn't need more damage. For the existing content she's strong enough without a random smeeta that charms crit occasionally and completely unreliably. You can't make a build around it. You can't trust charm to work whenever it's needed. So who cares if once a year Saryn overdamages with it? It's not worth losing the conveniences Sentinels provide. Definitely not worth losing vacuum for it.

 Listen, we're not even discussing what's better - sentinels or pets. It's not the issue here. The real issue is simple:

Sentinels have vacuum and they are overwhelmingly more popular than pets because pets don't have vacuum.

 This is the heart of the issue I've been bringing up.^ Pets can't compete and people can't play with them because they don't want to lose the Quality of Life that makes the game so much better in general.
 

Pretty clear you dont like Saryn. You deleted her.As I said before, just an example, which you neatly reinforced for me again by reiterating how crappy she is. Thank you. 

Have you stopped to consider Charms resource doubling? Why do you have scramble around, losing efficiency when you dont have too? The smeeta doubles it if you stick around long enough for it to proc. Dosnt even take that long since you can cycle through all charms effects in 9.5 minutes. 2 Rounds and your golden.You wont even notice. Cant get more efficient than double for nothing right?

 

[Top_Kekkonen]

Can we all agree that univac(12m) is acceptable and should be implemented as long it is optional through an option in the menu gameplay category.

[SpinnningSideKick]

17 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

But that's my point. They have good utility. The only thing that they don't have that falls in the utility category is loot vacuum, which our warframes and operators now have 3m of.

Dogs and cats getting oneshot by level 250s? Too bad. My sentinel died before the enemies reached 80 because of an unlucky napalm shot. No second chances, all utility lost.

And yet again, my kubrow can one-shot high level juggernauts. Frames can't do that, and very few weapons can come close, it's incredibly convenient to have such a high damage option. I love the Huras cloak, but I also love the Sahasa loot drops, the Raksa fear, and the Ardaza's amazing crit booster. There's so much more utility to be had in the pets than there is from the sentinels. The only downside is a lack of loot, but considering all the upsides, I feel that it's completely fair. 

Well said man. Thank you. 

[Ryim_Drykeon]

2 minutes ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

Can we all agree that univac(12m) is acceptable and should be implemented as long it is optional through an option in the menu gameplay category.

I can agree with this. Though I think a second slider should be implemented to go with the Archwing(Skywing) on the Plains. This needs a far bigger univac so we can skim "close" to the ground to pick things up instead of needing to land on it. The current 3m range is pitiful for current PoE AW play.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Have you stopped to consider Charms resource doubling? Why do you have scramble around, losing efficiency when you dont have too? The smeeta doubles it if you stick around long enough for it to proc. Dosnt even take that long since you can cycle through all charms effects in 9.5 minutes. 2 Rounds and your golden.You wont even notice. Cant get more efficient than double for nothing right?

Ok, listen. Warframe has incredible movement system, has guns, melee weapons and superpower abilities. It's a fast-paced combat-oriented game. You seriously expect anyone to wait for 10 minutes to proc a specific random charm resource booster that would only last 2 minutes? Really? And use it instead of vacuum?

 You're missing the point here. Vacuum isn't about resources. Vacuum is about the flow of the mission. Most of the playerbase simply don't like stopping at every corner to pick up every speck of dust off the floor and break every single crate on the way. It's not fun for us. You might like it, and it's fine. But what you're arguing for is forbidding fun to people like me, who don't ejoy the janitor-frame. Sorry. 

 And the worst part is that it doesn't really worth arguing for. Vacuum is already in the game. Manual looting is entirely skippable as long as you only stick to sentinels - which is exactly what the majority of the playerbase does. And it is exactly the reason why pets are so unpopular in the community and get so little developers' attention. 

 You yourself would benefit from UV directly. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

14 minutes ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

Can we all agree that univac(12m) is acceptable and should be implemented as long it is optional through an option in the menu gameplay category.

9 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

I can agree with this. Though I think a second slider should be implemented to go with the Archwing(Skywing) on the Plains. This needs a far bigger univac so we can skim "close" to the ground to pick things up instead of needing to land on it. The current 3m range is pitiful for current PoE AW play.

I've been trying to guess a good max range for Archwings' Vacuum for months. Current one seem to be working at 45m range or something and it doesn't seem to be enough. 60 or even 100 meters maybe?

 Cause the main reason why AW weapons don't have ammo, and AW themselves have energy\health regen, is because originally there was no vacuum at all on them and it was unplayable.

Edited November 11, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Ryim_Drykeon]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I've been trying to guess a good max range for Archwings' Vacuum for months. Current one seem to be working at 45m range or something and it doesn't seem to be enough. 60 or even 100 meters maybe?

Well, PoE restricts altitude to @50m, so anything in and around that range would be near insta-loot. I would think a max range, on PoE, to hit about 30m. Though testing would need to be done on that. Also, the speed of the Skywing univac would need to be increased to keep up with the increased travel velocity. Else we'll have a string of loot following us through the sky, lol.

As for your question, I would hazard a guess on regular AW univac to be at barely 30m itself. You need to keep in mind that while in AW mode, your model is rendered smaller than normal. Note the size of containers compared to you. The containers did not get bigger, you got smaller, so all relative distances change due to your brain recalculating for the size-ratio. Basically, DE is tricking our brains into thinking the distances are greater. Comparing to the containers, my best guess is that size was reduced to just over 50%, so your estimate of 60m is probably correct in visual, but half that in actual ie 30m.

[Top_Kekkonen]

14 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I've been trying to guess a good max range for Archwings' Vacuum for months. Current one seem to be working at 45m range or something and it doesn't seem to be enough. 60 or even 100 meters maybe?

 Cause the main reason why AW weapons don't have ammo, and AW themselves have energy\health regen, is because originally there was no vacuum at all on them and it was unplayable.

That's hilarious if true.

"What? do people need incentives to play? PREPOSTEROUS! There shall be no looting in my game."

[CaptainJLP]

2 hours ago, CaptainJLP said:

And to be honest whats getting me even more confused, is what on earth are they going to do to Chesa Kubrow when universal vacuum ever arrives (I'm not talking about the default 3m universal vacuum). And is universal vacuum gonna be universal Retrieve, yeah that mod that allows chesa kubrows to pick up items out of Combat.  So yeah, if DE really want us to even use Kubrows and Kavats, they at least gotta fix a lot of problems.

I'm scared of a Universal Retrieve more than anything. Really, Universal Vacuum is gonna cause way too much problems with pets, For Crying out loud they can't even walk through doors!

[Top_Kekkonen]

2 minutes ago, CaptainJLP said:

I'm scared of a Universal Retrieve more than anything. Really, Universal Vacuum is gonna cause way too much problems with pets, For Crying out loud they can't even walk through doors!

What do you mean? If anything univac(12m) will improve kubrows and kavats because more people will be using them thus further incentivizing DE to improve them.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

 

 

 

 

You would be that type of player that goes into the options and turns of univac(12m), okay that's fine, I completely understand. What's your objection again?

my objection is to the notion that people claim to need vacuum. Its a luxury for hoarding resources that you don't necessarily need to, all for the sake of seeing it fly towards you. I haven't read a response that refutes that, only exaggeration about how handicapped you would be without it for arbitrary reasons.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Campaigner]

29 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

my objection is to the notion that people claim to need vacuum. Its a luxury for hoarding resources that you don't necessarily need to,, all for the sake of seeing it fly towards you. i haven't read a response that refutes that, ,only exaggeration about how handicapped you would be without it for arbitrary reasons.

That's like saying we don't "need" parkour maneuvers because with good aim and ability use you can win battles by standing still. A lot of people enjoy fast movement and flying towards the action... and then there's the people who want to hold them back, slow down the pace, and say "why aren't you enjoying the resource touching you've already done as a noob for hundreds of hours?" 

Getting resources is part of the progression in Warframe so obviously players will try to do so while enjoying the actual gameplay. No one logs in looking forward to having to squat on every individual loot drop. Warframe has been designed as a fast-paced action game so obviously universal vacuum fits.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Campaigner

[SilvaDreams]

12 minutes ago, Campaigner said:

That's like saying we don't "need" parkour maneuvers because with good aim and ability use you can win battles by standing still. A lot of people enjoy fast movement and flying towards the action... and then there's the people who want to hold them back, slow down the pace, and say "why aren't you enjoying the resource touching you've already done as a noob for hundreds of hours?" 

Getting resources is part of the progression in Warframe so obviously players will try to do so while enjoying the actual gameplay. No one logs in looking forward to having to squat on every individual loot drop. Warframe has been designed as a fast-paced action game so obviously universal vacuum fits.

Actually no parkour keeps you alive as it reduces the enemy's aim,  standing still makes you a sitting target so you can't compare them as one is merely a utility and the other is a key game play mechanic.

Edited November 11, 2017 by SilvaDreams

[Top_Kekkonen]

29 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

my objection is to the notion that people claim to need vacuum. Its a luxury for hoarding resources that you don't necessarily need to,, all for the sake of seeing it fly towards you. i haven't read a response that refutes that, ,only exaggeration about how handicapped you would be without it for arbitrary reasons.

The most widely accepted idea of universal vacuum is that it would be an innate passive in all warframes and would be the exact range as the vacuum mod we already have on sentinels and it could be turned off or on in your settings.

Okay, the reason why I and so many others want this is because it would improve the players choice in companions, the reason why it would improve it, is because vacuum by the majority's view, is too important to give up for anything else. Remember, 78% of sentinel usage was carrier before vacuum was made to be a sentinel universal mod. That fact should prove something to you.

There's no objective reason why we need universal vacuum, just like there is no objective reason why you need to play this video game.

[Hypernaut1]

12 minutes ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

The most widely accepted idea of universal vacuum is that it would be an innate passive in all warframes and would be the exact range as the vacuum mod we already have on sentinels and it could be turned off or on in your settings.

Okay, the reason why I and so many others want this is because it would improve the players choice in companions, the reason why it would improve it, is because vacuum by the majority's view, is too important to give up for anything else. Remember, 78% of sentinel usage was carrier before vacuum was made to be a sentinel universal mod. That fact should prove something to you.

There's no objective reason why we need universal vacuum, just like there is no objective reason why you need to play this video game.

Again, you claim that vacuum is important just because it's vacuum. 

What exactly do you need to vacuum loot for?

Credits? Ammo? Orbs? Mods? Resources? Are people really hurting for these things during a mission? That's where my disconnect with the NEED is. You get enough of those things by ignoring the loot without vacuum. Vacuum is helpful, but hoarding should remain a personal choice.

The fact that 78% of people used carrier only tells me that the average player just follows status quo. 

I'd rather see people educated on the fact that they don't need vacuum and other pets are indeed very valuable. For instance, Sahasa actually creates drops reliably and works great with conversion mods

Edited November 11, 2017 by Hypernaut1