AperoBeltaTwo Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, leojst said: idk what you say things like using someone else's negative feedback to "steer" it in a direction that feels right to you sounds really deceptive and manipulative you can do the same with positive feed back but i feel like your someone who does this a lot for personal gain. Personal gain...WUT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AperoBeltaTwo Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, leojst said: but you have a choice to say agree it or not. No you don't. That's ridiculous... there's only one button there.. AHH you mean, "don't play it if you don't like it"? Right? Here, I'll quote myself for you: 48 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said: Because it's useless and if repeated enough times lulls devs into a false sense of security. This community loves DE too much. To the point where people who aren't in the religion are actively driven out by waves of hateful "leave if you don't like something" assaults - no matter what topic you raise. It's a survivor paradox. Only people who love like this game unconditionally stay in this kind of environment (and people with some form of mental immunity against j8rks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorClipClop Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said: Positivity is useless. Baseless positivity is destructive. ^That's the point I'm trying to make. This is both incorrect and also not related to this thread. Positive feedback is required to improve anything. If a concert ends and the entire audience goes "meh", that's 99.9% the band's last show. Applause is imprtant to let the band know that all their practice and material is appreciated and valued by others, which drives them to keep working at it. Sure there are some people in the audience just clapping because that's what you do at concerts, but a good chunk of them came to the venue to see a band they admired, and are clapping because they liked the show. Would you tell those fans to shut up because you think the band isn't perfect? Secondly, OP's appreciation is not "baseless positivity". This thread is an expression of gratitude (I assume in relation to American Thanksgiving) to DE, saying thank-you for the game they work hard on and give to us for free. OP enjoys and appreciates this game and wants to express that to the Devs. Are you calling OP a liar, or are you trying to quash their genuine admiration? 33 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said: Surely as a performer you wouldn't want to be praised out of courtesy or just because "everyone does it", would you? It's a trap set by every vertical hierarchy. As an extreme example: in the 30's his executive officers wouldn't tell Stalin that the army is poorly equipped out of fear of a death sentence, thus condemning the country to millions of lives lost in the upcoming wars. You must surely see the basic mechanical simularities here, even if the stakes aren't as high as during the War. It's human nature to stop trying if "everything is fine". I'm not sure about your logic here, Tenno. Stalin intimidated his subordinates into withholding all disagreements or critiques, shooting himself in the foot and ultimately leading to the weakening of his forces from within. How is that in any way similar to a game developer putting out a game and hoping we like it? They don't even expect positive feedback, let alone demand it (or an absence of critique), so why are you here suddenly pooping all over someone being positive and showing an appreciation to someone else? OP did not say "everything in this game is perfect, you don't need to put any effort into it anymore". OP said "DE works hard, is responsive, and puts up with our S#&$, so thank-you DE". Those two messages are different. Happy Thanksgiving. Edited November 28, 2017 by SenorClipClop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RistN Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 10 hours ago, leojst said: lets be honest other games devs are not as connected to their community as ours. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AperoBeltaTwo Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 43 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said: This is both incorrect and also not related to this thread. Positive feedback is required to improve anything. If a concert ends and the entire audience goes "meh", that's 99.9% the band's last show. Applause is imprtant to let the band know that all their practice and material is appreciated and valued by others, which drives them to keep working at it. Sure there are some people in the audience just clapping because that's what you do at concerts, but a good chunk of them came to the venue to see a band they admired, and are clapping because they liked the show. Would you tell those fans to shut up because you think the band isn't perfect? Secondly, OP's appreciation is not "baseless positivity". This thread is an expression of gratitude (I assume in relation to American Thanksgiving) to DE, saying thank-you for the game they work hard on and give to us for free. OP enjoys and appreciates this game and wants to express that to the Devs. Are you calling OP a liar, or are you trying to quash their genuine admiration? Would you prefer them to clap out of pity or smth? And you're confusing apples and oranges. The applause you're talking about is an immedeate emotional expression. Like if you were laughing while reading a book or feeling good when playing a game. Applause is a different kind of feedback exclusive to interactive media. ...ahh Scrooge it. I guess it's ok on holidays. The problem is, it's not exclusive to holidays. Polite collective praise of the Second Dream is the reason why we had this quest rush of the passing year, where main gameplay was ignored, and Devs focused on barely hour long quests only. Or going further back the year-long War Within extravaganza that happened because DE wanted to outdo themselves and match the Hype of the Post Second Dream expectations. It broke the game in so many places! And the worst part is, almost everyone who had an issue with that was driven out of the game or was silenced by the community of do-gooders with their "leave if you don't like something" persistence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AperoBeltaTwo Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 10 hours ago, leojst said: lets be honest other games devs are not as connected to their community as ours. 9 minutes ago, RistN said: Agreed Better than Bad =/= Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leojst Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said: Better than Bad =/= Good ok name a better dev team and ill give it to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thowed Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I spend money. That's the thanks they would prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AperoBeltaTwo Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Just now, leojst said: ok name a better dev team and ill give it to you "Better" in what category? Platinum games, old Metal Gear and Silent Hill Konami, Grinding Gear Games, NCSoft, FromSoftware, Polyphony Digital ... I'm just listing all companies I remember off the top of my head (some of them don't exist anymore, but that's details (GGG got in a cozy spot there, I'll reconsider it later)). There's plenty of "better Devs". The only objectively worse devs I know of are Gaijin ent. But again, just like Worse than the Best =/= Bad, Better than Bad =/= Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintaro Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I don't think this or any other rare "thank you" threads under the general discussion tab will ruin the entire game. Lighten up and just enjoy yourself and appreciate the small/large things every once in awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leojst Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Platinum games, Konami, fromsoftware, Polyphony Digital are not mmo dev's and lmfao Grinding Gear Games NCSoft are you brain dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc1fer16 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 23/11/2017 at 8:38 AM, Kurokoz said: Is this..outspoken positivity? I've heard rumors of people who go on the forums to actually say nice things about the devs but.. I never imagined it could be real. I though that people was still dreaming in the orokin moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AperoBeltaTwo Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, leojst said: Platinum games, Konami, fromsoftware, Polyphony Digital are not mmo dev's and lmfao Grinding Gear Games NCSoft are you brain dead GGG did with PoE what DE could never do with Warframe. They structured their game's effort-reward system so that playing longer would still yeald worthy rewards even for the veteran players. And those are the same rewards you could get during the whole game, yet they're still worth the time in the endgame. Because every item has a function. Every resource has a reason to be present in the game. NCSoft had been making grindy MMOs for years. They know exactly what their playerbase wants and manage to keep people busy for thousands and thousands of hours of gameplay, practically avoiding general content fatigue. Something that DE couldn't figure out at all so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leojst Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said: GGG did with PoE what DE could never do with Warframe. They structured their game's effort-reward system so that playing longer would still yeald worthy rewards even for the veteran players. And those are the same rewards you could get during the whole game, yet they're still worth the time in the endgame. Because every item has a function. Every resource has a reason to be present in the game. NCSoft had been making grindy MMOs for years. They know exactly what their playerbase wants and manage to keep people busy for thousands and thousands of hours of gameplay, practically avoiding general content fatigue. Something that DE couldn't figure out at all so far. are you rven reading when you type NCSoft could care less what the community wants and Path of Exile has more problems then the dev's have fixes for so you can keep your award winning speech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AperoBeltaTwo Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, leojst said: are you rven reading when you type NCSoft could care less what the community wants and Path of Exile has more problems then the dev's have fixes for so you can keep your award winning speech Great argument (not really). There is structure, clear intent, logic and proficiency behind the work of those companies. Personally, if you ask me what's better - to have a well-thought out, well-constructed game, or to have Devs constantly telling you how much they care about you, with words. I'll pick a good game every single time. Don't get me wrong, Devstreams are a good idea if done correctly. But on their devstreams DE are basically just informing us what they're going to do (whenever they feel like it). You have to live on the forum to catch the thread for Devstream questions and if you bring a serious issue, it'll just be ignored (not like they answer forum questions often anyway - it wasn't even featured on 100th, like forum doesn't exist). Edited November 28, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tora.Prime Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I play lineage 2 for 7 years and NCsoft F*** up the game in goddness of destruction, after that i stop playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma745 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, leojst said: are you rven reading when you type NCSoft could care less what the community wants and Path of Exile has more problems then the dev's have fixes for so you can keep your award winning speech Dude, just ignore him. He's already too salty at this game and want everyone to be as salty as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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