We need a set mod slot

[Fallen_Echo]

I will be plain and simple, set mods simply dont have enough bonus on them to consider using.

The set bonuses are too weak and apart from vigilante and gladiator they doesnt really worth getting.

Heres my current list of useable set mods (pure opinions) and im sure most of us would agree with this selection.

From the augur set:

More damage is always good.

Power mods are always seeked by minmaxers.

The problem here is the set bonus is barely useable and hinders rage builds. Without a good set bonus most of us wont find a reason to take out a mod just to fit in the power mods. The only one what will most possible get slotted always is the augur pact as it gives damage. 4 out of 6 mods are useable.

 

From the gladiator set:

One for increasing combo duration and one for crit builds, the set bonus is also good enough to consider these.

And thats all, the other gladiator mods while they offer nice bonuses but their stats are too weak to use them on any frames. 2 out of 6 mods worth using.

 

From the vigilante set:

I dare to say that this mod is already in the meta. +150% multishot on primaries cannot be ignored and the set bonus is nice.

A nice alternative for those who want punchtrought but dont want the firerate bonus from shred and dont have enough points metal augur. Less promising choice for shotgun tho.

 

Another must have mod for slow charging slow shooting weapons.

The others are questionable at best so its 3 out of 6 mods worth a slot.

 

And lastly the hunter set:

A mod what makes crit guns finally scale and add a bonus damage to all weapons what dont have slash damage.

Better than rage and stacks with it! 45% conversation rate helps every rage frame greatly.

Unique effect, while its not too good its still better than those i did not included.

3 out of 6 and the greates problem is that the set bonus is aimed toward the kubrow and kavat users who are in minority.

 

In my opinion we have 12 mods what simply do not worth using and even if we agree that the upper mods are good most of our builds simply dont have any open spots to slot any of these in.

A pure status chance primary build uses up atleast 5-6 mod slots leaving us 2-3 mods for customization but in most cases those are used up to overcome the weapons problems.

With this acknowledged how did anybody expected us to use the complete sets for the effects or even use one of the mods?

TL;DR we need atleast 1 set mod slot on each weapon and frame if we ever want to utilize these effects.

 

[fatboy22]

I feel like the exilus slot shouldn't be exilus only mods, just open that up for any additional mod that you can fit.

[Bronjun]

I thought these mods are new player oriented. 

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Bronjun said:

I thought these mods are new player oriented. 

I dont think so, especially since most base mods are easier to get a grant more opposed to these.

[BlackCoMerc]

The problem isn't slots. The problem is, once again, poor balance and power creep, and the resultant necessity of Damage mods.

Every Rifle: Serration and Split chamber take up two slots. That's automatic. Arguably, now, Vigilante Armaments takes a 3rd.

Pistols are even worse: 3 mod slots spoken for, every weapon, every build: Hornet Strike, Barrell Diffusion, Lethal Torrent.

And Frames: good luck NOT using Vitality, Redirection/Steel Fiber, Stretch and Intensify/Overextended on nearly everything. So...another 3 slots, spoken for every time, every build.

Someone should have seen what was taking place the moment mods we're introduced just to increase numbers. That's NOT modification. That's power creep. It should never have happened.

But it did, and we are stuck with tons of subpar or outright useless mods as a result.

[SethSoul]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

The problem isn't slots. The problem is, once again, poor balance and power creep, and the resultant necessity of Damage mods.

Every Rifle: Serration and Split chamber take up two slots. That's automatic. Arguably, now, Vigilante Armaments takes a 3rd.

Pistols are even worse: 3 mod slots spoken for, every weapon, every build: Hornet Strike, Barrell Diffusion, Lethal Torrent.

And Frames: good luck NOT using Vitality, Redirection/Steel Fiber, Stretch and Intensify/Overextended on nearly everything. So...another 3 slots, spoken for every time, every build.

Someone should have seen what was taking place the moment mods we're introduced just to increase numbers. That's NOT modification. That's power creep. It should never have happened.

But it did, and we are stuck with tons of subpar or outright useless mods as a result.

What is Mandatory about these mods? I mean before the Plains of Eidelon you did just fine in damage, why are the mandatory now? I mean if your going to put the issue in this way the same issue goes for Riven mods and augment mods. You need to have a trade off, you can't just have everything on a build. 

[xXFlippyXx]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

The problem isn't slots. The problem is, once again, poor balance and power creep, and the resultant necessity of Damage mods.

Every Rifle: Serration and Split chamber take up two slots. That's automatic. Arguably, now, Vigilante Armaments takes a 3rd.

Pistols are even worse: 3 mod slots spoken for, every weapon, every build: Hornet Strike, Barrell Diffusion, Lethal Torrent.

And Frames: good luck NOT using Vitality, Redirection/Steel Fiber, Stretch and Intensify/Overextended on nearly everything. So...another 3 slots, spoken for every time, every build.

Someone should have seen what was taking place the moment mods we're introduced just to increase numbers. That's NOT modification. That's power creep. It should never have happened.

But it did, and we are stuck with tons of subpar or outright useless mods as a result.

none of my frames uses redirection (shields are practically useless), a very selected few use vitality. Steel Fiber is on my Rhino i think.

 

As far as frames go i'm not narrowed to standard mods.

[fatboy22]

I can agree with power creep and the necessity for mods on every build regardless of where you take it. However, I still feel that these new set mods are a cool idea and were more of a sample of whats to come, a toe in the water if you will, opposed to the riven mod that (could) completely outshine most mods. thus making even more mods "subpar" and "outright useless". At the same time though new content needs to be added to keep the game fresh and enticing, set mods offer a level of synergy and complexity that hasn't been seen before, and I like the direction.

There are already enough mods that serve basically no purpose. Looking at elemental resistance mods, status duration, increase downed timer, you get the idea. So imagine these new mods replace all the mods they share stats with and the list grows, its more of a power leap instead of creep. 

Now I know you're gonna tell me "They can stack with each other, so now you have to use both." Thats where you'd be mistaken though, you have to use both just as much as you have to use any mod, you don't. you could play with no mods at all and the game still works. Is it more difficult? Yes, but you can. Its been the thing since forever, you pick the mods that synergize well to give you the desired result. Nobody is playing a min duration nova complaining about how their abilities dont compare to others. You've always had to build up your desired area while sacrificing in another. So by all means run both in the build, but know you'll be loosing out in some other area.

 Riven mods reduced the bloat of mod capacity by combining multiple mod types into a single slot, Which is, in part, why they were so amazing to many players. 

 

 

[Fallen_Echo]

42 minutes ago, SethSoul said:

What is Mandatory about these mods? I mean before the Plains of Eidelon you did just fine in damage, why are the mandatory now? I mean if your going to put the issue in this way the same issue goes for Riven mods and augment mods. You need to have a trade off, you can't just have everything on a build. 

They are not mandatory but dont you think its silly to produce content what no one is going to use because there are better alternatives?

All i want is a single mod slot dedicated for set mods, because honestly expect with a few free space build i cant use them at all.

 

[Fallen_Echo]

27 minutes ago, fatboy22 said:

I can agree with power creep and the necessity for mods on every build regardless of where you take it. However, I still feel that these new set mods are a cool idea and were more of a sample of whats to come, a toe in the water if you will, opposed to the riven mod that (could) completely outshine most mods. thus making even more mods "subpar" and "outright useless". At the same time though new content needs to be added to keep the game fresh and enticing, set mods offer a level of synergy and complexity that hasn't been seen before, and I like the direction.

There are already enough mods that serve basically no purpose. Looking at elemental resistance mods, status duration, increase downed timer, you get the idea. So imagine these new mods replace all the mods they share stats with and the list grows, its more of a power leap instead of creep. 

Now I know you're gonna tell me "They can stack with each other, so now you have to use both." Thats where you'd be mistaken though, you have to use both just as much as you have to use any mod, you don't. you could play with no mods at all and the game still works. Is it more difficult? Yes, but you can. Its been the thing since forever, you pick the mods that synergize well to give you the desired result. Nobody is playing a min duration nova complaining about how their abilities dont compare to others. You've always had to build up your desired area while sacrificing in another. So by all means run both in the build, but know you'll be loosing out in some other area.

 Riven mods reduced the bloat of mod capacity by combining multiple mod types into a single slot, Which is, in part, why they were so amazing to many players. 

 

 

Powercreep or not, it still hurts that most of these mods will be nothing more than useless trash only useable on a few extremely specialized builds.

Just with one set mod slot you could go ahead and use up whatever you choose without having to cripple some of your builds especially since most set mods and bonuses are not that great, they cant suddenly make anything OP.

[DiabolusUrsus]

@BlackCoMerc is correct though.

Any debate about the "mandatory" nature of certain mods is rife with semantics and technicalities. Okay, so there is nothing FORCING players to slot Serration, but the issue at hand is choice vs. option. Show me a build without Serration and I'll show you a sub-par build.

That means there's absolutely NO POINT in simply adding additional slots because those slots will inevitably fill up with more stat-boosting nonsense (e.g., Drift mods corrupting Exilus) and the complaint about not having enough space for less important mods will come full circle... Again.

Limiting mod space is not a suitable trade-off. The trade-offs need to be baked into the mods themselves, and they need to be meaningful.

Simply adding more slots just limits builds by mandating additional Forma to accommodate the increased capacity load and doing absolutely nothing to address the existing status quo of mods-as-progression vs. mods-as-customization.

You can't have a decent variety of options until mods are purely customization.

We don't need more slots. We need a better modding system.

 

[BlackCoMerc]

13 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

@BlackCoMerc is correct though.

Any debate about the "mandatory" nature of certain mods is rife with semantics and technicalities. Okay, so there is nothing FORCING players to slot Serration, but the issue at hand is choice vs. option. Show me a build without Serration and I'll show you a sub-par build.

That means there's absolutely NO POINT in simply adding additional slots because those slots will inevitably fill up with more stat-boosting nonsense (e.g., Drift mods corrupting Exilus) and the complaint about not having enough space for less important mods will come full circle... Again.

Limiting mod space is not a suitable trade-off. The trade-offs need to be baked into the mods themselves, and they need to be meaningful.

Simply adding more slots just limits builds by mandating additional Forma to accommodate the increased capacity load and doing absolutely nothing to address the existing status quo of mods-as-progression vs. mods-as-customization.

You can't have a decent variety of options until mods are purely customization.

We don't need more slots. We need a better modding system.

 

Exactly this.

Continuity, Intensify, Redirection, Steel Fiber, Stretch and Vitality need to be baked into Frames. Damage mods, including multishot, need to be baked into weapon numbers.

Maybe then, we can CUSTOMIZE using mods.

[Redspace0095]

It would be nice if we could at least get a Augment slot, even if it shares a slot with the Exilus

 

Continuity, Intensify, Redirection, Steel Fiber, Stretch and Vitality need to be baked into Frames. Damage mods, including multishot, need to be baked into weapon numbers.

Maybe then, we can CUSTOMIZE using mods.

 

Or a method to make your own combined mods using the Fusion Core system?

Say you want to combine Power Strength and Power Efficiency, you could allow a max of 3 different max level mods to be merged but with a 10% stat reduction on the 2nd skill and 25% on the 3rd. Fusion core matching the Primary Mod to be used, one mod merge at a time. 

Costs could include Kuva (seeing as we use it to reroll Rivens), Endo and Fusion Cores (which strike me as kinda useless atm), other possible restrictions could include not being able to merge a greater rarity mod onto a lesser one. Perhaps even not being able to merge anything better than a gold rarity

Edited December 8, 2017 by Redspace0095

[BL4CKN0ISE]

You can still have fun with set mods. The only thing I want DE to do is create more interesting mods and set bonuses. In general I rather go with the higher number, so it's sometimes hard to choose a set mod over something that's better. I might feel better choosing something "strange" tho. That's why I love Hunter Munitions. I'm not supposed to have room for that mod, but it's such an interesting mod, so I make room. That's how DE should be thinking IMO. I also wish they would just change it to 4 to make a complete set. 6 mods is probably asking for too much. 

[BlackCoMerc]

32 minutes ago, Redspace0095 said:

It would be nice if we could at least get a Augment slot, even if it shares a slot with the Exilus

 

 

Or a method to make your own combined mods using the Fusion Core system?

Say you want to combine Power Strength and Power Efficiency, you could allow a max of 3 different max level mods to be merged but with a 10% stat reduction on the 2nd skill and 25% on the 3rd. Fusion core matching the Primary Mod to be used, one mod merge at a time. 

Costs could include Kuva (seeing as we use it to reroll Rivens), Endo and Fusion Cores (which strike me as kinda useless atm), other possible restrictions could include not being able to merge a greater rarity mod onto a lesser one. Perhaps even not being able to merge anything better than a gold rarity

Now that...would be cool. Really cool. I like it.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

This is a very constructive thread, but I ask will any of these ideas actually fix anything. I would like to see a day when any frame can be pushed to the same limit in any mission. 

[Redspace0095]

 

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Now that...would be cool. Really cool. I like it.

I probably should sit down and think the idea through a bit more and put up a suggestion post on it

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 hours ago, Redspace0095 said:

I probably should sit down and think the idea through a bit more and put up a suggestion post on it

Your idea sounds cool, but keep in mind that it will be a database NIGHTMARE for DE. Even with rarity restrictions that is a tremendous number of permutations that they would have to name and store. (And I don't think the Riven naming convention is ideal).

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Evilpricetag said:

This is a very constructive thread, but I ask will any of these ideas actually fix anything. I would like to see a day when any frame can be pushed to the same limit in any mission. 

Simple. Stop all endlessly scaling tools. Add level-based diminishing returns to CC powers (e.g., they start suffering debuffs past max enemy level X), and scrap all shield/armor-ignoring mechanics (partial ignores/reductions for armor are okay, but not total ignores). This keeps the "limit" goalpost relatively static.

At the same time, buff all baseline stats to be sufficient at max "balanced" level, and reduce the benefits of all stat-boosting mods. This clamps the +/- range of damage, etc. to make mod choice less significant.

Finally, add reasonable trade-offs to all stat-boosting mods so that no stat boost comes for free.

[Redspace0095]

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Your idea sounds cool, but keep in mind that it will be a database NIGHTMARE for DE. Even with rarity restrictions that is a tremendous number of permutations that they would have to name and store. (And I don't think the Riven naming convention is ideal).

 

Handle them the same way as the Zaws. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

8 minutes ago, Redspace0095 said:

Handle them the same way as the Zaws. 

The number of zaw parts (and consequently possible permutations) does not begin to compare to the number of mods.

DE is already limiting player Inventory space with money, and they have discussed giving us a limited number of mods, too. It seems to me that database storage space is at a literal premium, so I dunno how viable potentially expanding usage THAT MUCH for players would be.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

I feel like this thread is getting a little derailed now that I look at it, a set mod slot.. I'm not sure if that is the answer.

I really like the mod sets, its a good idea.. but playing around with them the past few hours, there are only a few mods that surpass any ideal situation assuming you already have the rare counterparts to them.

Hunter Adrenaline > Rage, any day. But that may be a player-frame playstyle situation. Limited to those that see its benefit. The entire Hunter set has to be the only set I enjoy, tried playing with Gladiator, but even if your saving yourself from blood rush being put on your loosing so much dps that could have been placed as all the mods are exactly another mod but weaker, and then the total bonus is weaker than what could have been used on a melee..

Mods that make Kubvat's heal the frame... and it in turn can also hold a self heal (effected from the frame) which keeps it organized, out of the way, and with enough time and effort the Kubvats are incredibly powerful, & resourceful. I personaly think certain mod's should be restricted from sentinels to limit options (animal instinct).

 

All in all... I'd gladly utilize a Mod set slot, if it were given. I question the space left over... but hey... after this journey finding out that Kubvat's are incapable of holding 10 fully leveled (decent) mods even fully polarized in every slot... I'm finally disappointed in them. They deserve a Aura slot.. or 'benefit' slot space.

 

And endless scaling should never be stopped, I'm not personally in love with it, but I know a large portion of those that... 'just play' love to see how far they can go. at least until they are bored. And that's my point, no frame should be so much better than another to be able to push 3000% more time into a endless mission than any other may be capable of achieving.