Limbo and the Mountains of Salt

[Phobonaut]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Any one who actually uses Limbo or the community that hopes to use Limbo will agree that the overall success of a frame is infinitely more important than ruining the ability to do an optional, random Riven objective....

The point is that there are many things that rely on Stasis being as it is. Unlocking Rivens is just one thing. Limbo's survivability in solo play is another. You NEED Stasis in solo play.

Turning Stasis down a notch would pretty much F*** up Limbo's solo capacity. A more viable idea would be to use a charging mechanic like Hydroid has, turning the % of Stasis up from X% up to 100%.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

28 minutes ago, Phobonaut said:

The point is that there are many things that rely on Stasis being as it is. Unlocking Rivens is just one thing. Limbo's survivability in solo play is another. You NEED Stasis in solo play

The point is you don't need it.

Rivens existed before Limbo's rework, which means Stasis didn't exist.

Limbo didn't get Stasis until 2.5 years after his creation, and while Stasis improved his survivability he has never depended on it. I tell you that from extensive experience with him.

The only things that rely on Stasis are players that want an easy, lazy way to play or players that aren't very good at playing him in the first place....

[Ajwf]

There's been a lot of the word 'lazy' used in recent discussions, but you realize that almost no frame takes any amount of tangible 'skill' or 'effort' right? Only the movement system in this game is actually requiring any semblance of skill. Discounting stasis because it's lazy is asinine when the ability requires an activation of another ability at minimum, as well as a deactivation of stasis, more than can be said for the majority of abilities in this game. I mean, my biggest complaint a little over a hundred hours in is there is absolutely no 'high level' frame that isn't afraid about being inaccessible mechanically.

Stasis is, like it or not, a key part of Limbo's kit. It really gives him reason to USE the rift to fight enemies other than 'singling a target out', which singling an enemy out is kinda pitiful anyways because that's absolutely not what his four helps with and that's a stupidly slow way to play solo. Pretending Limbo has any reason to exist without stasis is a joke. 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Ajwf

[Eirshy]

2 hours ago, Phobonaut said:

Would ruin Limbo as for several Riven mod unlock conditions though, for example a lvl 30 or higher solo defense mission where the defense object cannot take any damage.

Um.... Solo. Would still effect Limbo's projectiles, just wouldn't affect anyone else's. Since he's solo, it'd effect nobody else's anyways.

[Leqesai]

On 12/9/2017 at 7:42 PM, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

So yeah, I was just brutally cussed out because I accidentally cast banish on one of my teammates while he was hacking. I play a negative range Limbo to try to avoid ever affecting my teammates with Limbo's powers. Hell most of the time I try not to even cast powers as Limbo for fear of being reprimanded by other players, I usually use banish once to banish rescue targets that's all. This is not the first time I have received very harsh words just for playing Limbo. I have had people immediately leave game just because they see a Limbo in squad. Pretty much every game I bring Limbo to someone has some really crappy things to say to me.

I know Limbo was just reworked, but DE could you please think about doing some QoL tweaks soon. This is one of the best conceptual frames IMO, but one of the worst executions. Is there anyway we could let people in the rift just get a damage reduction to incoming and outgoing damage, but still be able to interact with stuff. I have many more ideas for possible tweaks to limbo as I'm sure everyone else does. 

It's just weird to receive so much hate in such a friendly game.        

The problem isn't Limbo, the problem is the &#!-hats you're playing with.

 

Warframe doesn't have the worst community I've ever seen, but there are a -lot- of complete jerks around here.

[(PSN)psycofang]

On 12/18/2017 at 11:44 AM, TheBlueJelly said:

So I was formaing my Limbo over the weekend. If you didn't know Exodia Contagion can cross planes, so 10/10 would recommend a high damage Zaw.

Dont talk about that. qq i dont want my arcane to become chroma only.

[ADRAKATA9]

I like to use him as a way to safeguard objectives needed to defend. I also banish players to the rift too with max range and some duriation so they aren't fighting invincible mobs. To use him and not get hated on, in my opinion, would require you to constantly banish and unbanish players and enemies. rift surge can cause some difficulty with that but it works for me.

[(PSN)Cyotis]

Limbo is fine. Leave him be.

[DeliciousDoob69]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Cyotis said:

Limbo is fine. Leave him be.

What's fine about a frame that more than half the community despises? It's not like my OP was asking for an entirely new rework, just some QoL adjustments. I'm even one of the people that like Limbo, have you read some of these other comments that people have posted. Warframe is a fairly toxic free game, but this thread alone proves how Limbo is just a source of salt for so many. 

[(PSN)psycofang]

Everything is a source of salt for many. Ember wiping low level maps? Hot Salt. Maimnox wiping high maps? Mad salt. Mag on hydron? Group salt. Everyone brings CP to Hydron? Mag Salt.

Ppl killin my infested nest so no stacks? Nasty Salt. Zephyr hittin dat 4? Wind blows salt in the eyes. Inaros holdin his 3? Sandy Salt.

Ignis w Mirage? Eclipsing Salt.  Frost bubbles intersecting? Frozen self damage Salt.  Chroma kills something? High impact Salt (theres a thread on that) Harrow/Trinity blue balling vex Chroma? Vexed Salt.

 

This game and its community is nothing BUT Salt on near biblical levels.

Edited December 23, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[CollStar]

Let's be honest here : I like Limbo concept, but he's a pain most of the time for his squad.

I use him to cheese certain types of missions (mobile defense mostly, rescue), and that's it.

Playing a max range build is a pain in the &#! for your team mates : sure, you can cast briefly stasis and then release it to let bullets fly, but many Limbo players dont. You are at the mercy of Limbo in his bubble. And his 1 in aoe is too unreliable to be used in my opinion, too much risk to F*** your team up.

Problem is : good Limbo players are rare, the rest is pure cancer. Even I, a good Limbo player, can loose track of who is in the rift.

Stasis is a fun change, but for the rest... I prefered the old design of Limbo : picking high priority enemies one by one.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I've seen really annoying players abuse Frost, Loki and Volt to make missions a small five minute hell for everyone. But somehow, Limbo still has three powers that severely restrict you to the point where you sigh deeply if you see a Limbo in a pub squad. Troll Limbos that just follow you around to banish you as soon as you pop out of the rift are just so damn aggravating. I really wish there was some way to opt out of playing with this class for good.

[Mesaeux]

On 12/13/2017 at 3:25 AM, Etomb said:

-------------------------Players create toxicity, not the frame; just as people kill people, not guns.-----------------------------------

Limbo is given a unique strategic method of control over the battle field. This includes a level of control over the other players. 

There are 4 main types of Limbo players.

• Respectful.
• Disrespectful/disruptive. Trolling.

 

• Experienced/Intelligent; they know what they're doing. They've more or less mastered his skills.
• Stupid/Inexperienced. 

Imagine a cross matrix with all the different combinations possible.

Determine what type of Limbo you are dealing with then react accordingly.

• A respectful Limbo will respond to requests such as; please stick to this area, or only banish/freeze things when I'm ability spamming. The stupid/inexperienced flavor may try and fail, though.
• A disrespectful but intelligent Limbo is the dangerous kind. A disrespectful but stupid Limbo is just annoying. Try explaining to them how their abilities work.

Being able to roll out of banishment certainly helps with troll Limbos, but can not eliminate the freezing of enemies. Work around it; in the same way you have to deal with hallway heroes, (I think I got the expression right), or idiots that don't know how to do interception missions, or people that can't keep from constantly dying, etc.

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Limbo works best in a squad where everyone is aware of him and communicate in order to develop a collective squad strategy. Limbo works best in a squad where everyone else understands how he works too, and more often than not this does not happen.

-Example-

Interception- A properly built Limbo can relatively easily hold down 2 points alone, while the rest is left to the other players. If everyone just wanders around, switching points, stupidly trying to clear out a frozen limbo bubble, etc, then of course things won't work out. Help out where it makes sense.

  -   The most effective Limbo has mastered the frame, which can take a significant amount of commitment and experience, and is in a squad that trusts him to manipulate the flow of the battle. If Limbo freezes/banishes an area without you, then you should look around to see if the objective is being swarmed. Is he trying to redirect your attention? If he banishes you with a group of enemies, he's protecting you from being fired on while you kill them. Roll out afterward.

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Perhaps I just haven't learned to do this yet, but the only problem I see that the actual frame has is the difficulty that arises when interacting with other Limbos.

To put it bluntly, people need to grow up and learn how to communicate with each other. The Limbos, and the rest of their squad-mates.

very well-written. I agree most with your penultimate point: "Perhaps I just haven't learned to do this yet, but the only problem I see that the actual frame has is the difficulty that arises when interacting with other Limbos."

The most trouble I've had as a Limbo player is when there is another Limbo in the same cell mainly because now there are 2 people with control over Stasis. You turn off your Stasis doesn't mean Stasis is off. They should make matchmaking so that there can only ever be a maximum of 1 Limbo on the team. 

[(PSN)rengence]

limbos best ability is square. When he goes down, that is all he has to press.

[ShiraHagane]

Maybe if you didn't play a frame who's one purpose is to stop people from doing damage, you wouldn't get hate

[-CM-Machete]

On ‎09‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 8:42 PM, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

So yeah, I was just brutally cussed out because I accidentally cast banish on one of my teammates while he was hacking. I play a negative range Limbo to try to avoid ever affecting my teammates with Limbo's powers. Hell most of the time I try not to even cast powers as Limbo for fear of being reprimanded by other players, I usually use banish once to banish rescue targets that's all. This is not the first time I have received very harsh words just for playing Limbo. I have had people immediately leave game just because they see a Limbo in squad. Almost every game I bring Limbo to someone has some really crappy things to say to me.

I know Limbo was just reworked, but DE could you please think about doing some QoL tweaks soon. This is one of the best conceptual frames IMO, but one of the worst executions. Is there anyway we could let people in the rift just get a damage reduction to incoming and outgoing damage, but still be able to interact with stuff. IDK just an idea. 

It's just weird to receive so much hate in such a friendly game.        

I understand your position,  but you also need to understand others before ONLY taking the "victim" perspective, players have been suffering Limbo's annoying mechanics for YEARS, and there was a time when there was NO CHANCE to leave the rift, and people is still aversive because of that mechanic, it's just an annoying and terrible experience, and now, it went from torture to a punch in the face, which is annoying at most, but you can't stop people from remembering the bigger suffering when they experience the same thing negative but with less intensity.

It's kinda like that video of the dog that cries when people touches him as if he was getting tortured, you can't expect him to not react that way just because this time you are going to pet him instead of torturing him, like their previous owners did.

And things are arguably even worse now than before because there are people who are still trolling with the current Limbo, because regardless of you being able to leave the rift, NOTHING stops a dipsh1t; from spamming it over and over again on you or blocking half of the room with his edgy Borderlands graphics mod.

Edited December 26, 2017 by -CM-Machete