In Regards to Hunter Munitions

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, MickThejaguar said:

You're looking at this mod as if it weren't set mod. The whole purpose of the set bonus is to encourage the player to use the mods together. And even if you don't use the full, there is still a bonus that benefits your pet, regardless of whether you like the benefit or not. It still makes the pet do more damage and it doesn't negatively impact your pet in any way so it's still a benefit. If they didn't want you to use the mods together, there wouldn't be a set bonus. 

Actually, it's a pretty heavy negative benefit on most of my pets.  With the health, armor and shield mods, Pack Leader to heal them, and Medi Pet to give them time to revive and the ability to regenerate when there's nothing to stab, two pet precepts, and the two pet damage mods, I have to sacrifice *something* to even put the mods onto a pet at all.  It might have been barely worth it before.  It's completely NOT worth it now.

[Tsardova]

Just now, EmberStar said:

Actually, it's a pretty heavy negative benefit on most of my pets.  With the health, armor and shield mods, Pack Leader to heal them, and Medi Pet to give them time to revive and the ability to regenerate when there's nothing to stab, two pet precepts, and the two pet damage mods, I have to sacrifice *something* to even put the mods onto a pet at all.  It might have been barely worth it before.  It's completely NOT worth it now.

[MickThejaguar]

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

If you don't work for DE, then you CAN NOT argue for the "intent" of the mod.  You're not part of the team that designed it, and have ZERO knowledge of what their intent was.

Except a person can look at what the mod does and what they've changed to come to the conclusion of what they most likely intended. Is this 100% right? No. Is it the best explanation that assumes DE isn't just randomly nerfing and buffing things at their leisure? So far that I've seen, yes.

[EmberStar]

2 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

Sorry, I don't speak meme.  If you have a point, please use real words.

[MickThejaguar]

3 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Actually, it's a pretty heavy negative benefit on most of my pets.  With the health, armor and shield mods, Pack Leader to heal them, and Medi Pet to give them time to revive and the ability to regenerate when there's nothing to stab, two pet precepts, and the two pet damage mods, I have to sacrifice *something* to even put the mods onto a pet at all.  It might have been barely worth it before.  It's completely NOT worth it now.

The "no negative" statement was specifically directed towards Hunter Munitions not the entire set. As in, there is no negative impact towards you pet for you using Hunter Munitions, and there is a benefit, so therefore it benefits the pet. 

[Vox_Preliator]

31 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

How can you assume that?  Because as they've described the changes, it seems like the only *possible* behavior.  Unless they're going to code "procs from mods and stances" to behave *differently* than "procs from random damage rolls."  If a mod or stance has an automatic IPS proc on a weapon with 0% of that type of damage, their description makes it pretty hard to see how it could do anything *except* cause a zero damage proc.

Yes, that is literally exactly what I'm expecting, that "natural" and "forced" procs would be calculated differently, because a part of a stance dealing zero damage would be unintended behavior and incredibly stupid.  Two out of three Blade and Whip weapons are purely elemental, the built-in slash proc would only have any effect on Mios.

I think you're unclear on my position:  If these changes come around, and things work like people are fearing, I will be pushing for change just as much as everyone else.  To not have forced procs work differently than natural procs under the proposed system would simply be stupid, and a worthy target for derision and mockery for months to come.  It's such an obvious point that I simply cannot convince myself that nobody on their team brought it up.  That's what I was getting at:  If they took these forced procs into account and simply neglected to mention them in the post, then all is well.  If not, F*** that with a rusty tire iron.  But they never said those would use the new system, nor did they say they wouldn't.  I just really, really don't see the benefit in anyone getting angry about this yet.  Anger doesn't seem especially productive at this point.

[EmberStar]

Just now, Vox_Preliator said:

Yes, that is literally exactly what I'm expecting, that "natural" and "forced" procs would be calculated differently, because a part of a stance dealing zero damage would be unintended behavior and incredibly stupid.  Two out of three Blade and Whip weapons are purely elemental, the built-in slash proc would only have any effect on Mios.

I think you're unclear on my position:  If these changes come around, and things work like people are fearing, I will be pushing for change just as much as everyone else.  To not have forced procs work differently than natural procs under the proposed system would simply be stupid, and a worthy target for derision and mockery for months to come.  It's such an obvious point that I simply cannot convince myself that nobody on their team brought it up.  That's what I was getting at:  If they took these forced procs into account and simply neglected to mention them in the post, then all is well.  If not, F*** that with a rusty tire iron.  But they never said those would use the new system, nor did they say they wouldn't.  I just really, really don't see the benefit in anyone getting angry about this yet.  Anger doesn't seem especially productive at this point.

I think people have the vague hope that if they bring up enough reasons why it's potentially a bad idea, and any of them are *true,* maybe the devs will scrap the damage changes until after the holidays when they have more time.  Right now, it honestly feels like they're rushing the damage changes because they want Khora on the store before they leave for the holidays, and since Khora's whole gimmick is to change damage types, they feel pressured to try to make all the damage types suck equally so that people feel that there is a "choice" in what power setting to use for her.

 

[Tsardova]

34 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Sorry, I don't speak meme.  If you have a point, please use real words.

Wishing the mods as a set actually helps than have a detrimental effect in some ways.

[Frosthaven83]

I had some fun with the hunter set and my helminth scaling up pretty well when using a melee. I kept my pet at max health and my pet's attacks kept me at max health for around 50 minutes in endless (only using link-health for pet survivability, with around 1000 pet hp).

I'm going to say that I agree with OP's initial assessment on the intended purpose of the set. I also agree that the reason people used it outside of the set is still a valid concern and should be handled. Munitions, whether intended or not, was the only thing propping up a selection of weapons - so it is an interesting discussion for sure.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Frosthaven83

[tyranno66]

How about you wait for the changes to come before complaining about them? This is literally you thinking that you know something when you clearly don't. Stop preemptively whining.

[Karaphael]

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/896961-roadmap-2017-early-2018/