/

[Brorelia]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)IceTriden7 said:

Please use the spoiler tag.

No need for spoiler when it is theory crafting about what might happen.

Then again I forget about those who never knew.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Brorelia

[(XBOX)Mechanomaly]

3 minutes ago, Brorelia said:

No need for spoiler when it is theory crafting about what might happen.

Then again I forget about those who never knew.

Well, there's already a spoiler tag now.

[Tarak]

4 hours ago, Phobonaut said:

I don't think Ballas wanted the Tenno dead as much as he thought Margulis' life was more important than the Tenno. And I doubt Ballas really gave a S#&$ about the Orokin. They killed the love of his life - I imagine he's kind of sad the stable influence of the Empire is gone and replaced by braindead worker drones acting like a civilization and corrupt swindlers pretending to be nobility, but I doubt he cared when the Tenno killed off the Seven Emperors.

Also, the Stalker is simply a human soldier from the Orokin armies. Hes not a Tenno. Read his code entry.

... But HE was overseeing her trial... HE ordered her execution... that logic is... just bad... He put the empire, and his place in it, above her life... Margulis herself pointed that out in the flashbacks we got in the apostacy prologue: Margulis:'Ballas, do something!' Ballas:'You know I can't.' Margulis:'Can't, or won't?' Ballas killed the love of his life, for the sake of the empire... You REALLY think he doesn't care at all that we slaughtered the Orokin and ended the Emire he was IN CHARGE of?

[Tarak]

2 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I will have to decide based on how logical Hunhow's account is of the sentient race.

If they are innately peaceful and only driven to be hostile due to the Orokin's oppression and if he can be peaceful now, there is nothing wrong befriending him or siding with the sentients especially since Lotus is partly sentient Natah too and we call her Space Mom.

I mean the Orokin were undoubtedly evil in the past but that does not mean Ballas and Margulis cannot create a better Orokin and bring order to the system.

Based on the theory, both sides aren't exactly wrong and Hunhow's hatred for the Orokin is heavily misplaced on Ballas and Margulis who had helped bring down the very enemy they shared.

As such, if there can be a compromise or neutral solution which there will be given how the allignment system works, I will pick the middleground.

I don't want to play as an evil character and I am a pretty big lore fan so for me, I don't really wanna decide my character's path based on the rewards because I don't mind spending money and platinum to just buy them either. However, if the "light" path and "dark" paths each offer something exclusive which cannot be bought, I will just pick the "light" path.

 

On a side note, I am quite confident at some point, we will make this choice:

(a) Restore Natah the sentient and lose Margulis.

(b) Restore the Lotus by making Natah share Margulis' body again but this time letting Margulis be aware of this.

(c) Leave Margulis as per what Ballas already did and destroyed Natah.

Which 1 will be put as good, neutral or bad, I don't know but I am certain it won't heavily impact gameplay.

... Except Hunhow wants the cycle completed, The Orokin and all former parts of their empire need to be eradicated from his perspective, Grineer, corpus, us, and all humans in the origin system are formerly part of the Orokin empire. Hunhow is a self proclaimed 'destroyer of worlds', his focus is the wholesale destruction of the empire's remaining existence. The best time for him to do that would be now, when we are alone and without guidance from Natah. keep in mind that the Sentient plan was to use likeness of Margulis, murdered by the Orokin (by Ballas mind you) to secretly turn us against the Orokin and then to KILL US in the end. Also, what are you talking about with 'Ballas and Margulis helping to bring down the enemy they shared'? Ballas was literally IN CHARGE of the Orokin Empire and Margulis was killed by them, The Lotus, Natah, is a replication of Margulis formed from a Sentient using OUR memories to re-create itself into something that could CONTROL us and drive us to destroy the VERY THING WE SWORE TO PROTECT...

I very much doubt there can be any kind of compromise or neutral ground with Hunhow (or any Sentient that isn't Natah, and even that I think is a result of her connection to our minds twisting her nature to make her into what we wanted and needed) or Ballas.

[Tarak]

So I know people here don't agree with me on stuff but I want to put this in anyway, an account of what I've pieced together as facts and where I think, based on logical storytelling, DE is going as a result of it.

I want to start by prefacing this with the fact that we know The Sacrifice is coming soonish and that I believe that this was the prologue to an upcoming quest ('Apostasy', since this was 'The Apostasy Prologue'). I also want to mention that MOST (albeit not ALL) quests are named for the revelations they give about the past rather than the future. As such I believe the quest name of The Sacrifice is about a sacrifice that was made long ago rather than one that will be made. There is also the fact that we know that The Sacrifice will be, as per the devs, delving into the nature and origin of the Warframes. That's important. Now, this next part will likely turn people away and talking about it directly might get the post deleted or something, I don't know, but back before the War Within came out the was a quest script leaked. In that script Umbra was featured. it was brief, but it was there, as was a flashback that he triggered of Ballas talking to a Dax about sacrifice being necessary to save us. Although the script was still in flux and was heavily changed before release I believe the nature of that scene holds true. The Sacrifice refers to sacrifices made for us long ago that we'll learn about from a new, albeit potentially temporary, guide in the form of an Umbra, an original Warframe, unbound from Tenno control as opposed to the Orokin era copies and modern copies of copies we frequently use now.

All that said... We actually know that the Sentient see humanity on whole as 'Orokin'. This is shown in the fact that Hunhow called Alad V and us Orokin during The Second Dream. 'The noise you make will end now, Orokin called Alad V.' 'Natah, you trust these Orokin who chiseled weapons from our bones?'. This actually does make sense, as during the old war the Orokin Empire controlled everything in the Origin system. The Corpus, Grineer, and every civilian on every planet were under the Empire, thus were, from the perspective of the Sentient, Orokin. He will likely try to find a way to come for us while we alone and vulnerable. We will have to either find a new guide to replace the Lotus until we can find her and bring her back under our sway, or we will be approached by someone or something that has likely been watching and is driven by a desire to keep us safe from harm. since the Lotus' information network is the best way to ensure our continued dominance in the Origin system (keeping any threat from becoming too heavy to handle) helping us to find her and return her to her place is likely the best way to do that.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

8 hours ago, royblazin said:

Ballas then begins to explain to the Tenno what his goals are, he tells the Tenno about how he plotted the down fall of the Orokin for revenge on what they did to Margulis, and how Margulis opened his eyes to what they truly are, so he made a plan to have the council approve of the plan that will one day allow for the creation of the Sentient, but also a way to save the Tenno so that they would not be disposed of but revered as heroes. So he worked together with the Sentient Natah and Natah herself confirms this.

 

50 minutes ago, Tarak said:

Also, what are you talking about with 'Ballas and Margulis helping to bring down the enemy they shared'? Ballas was literally IN CHARGE of the Orokin Empire and Margulis was killed by them, The Lotus, Natah, is a replication of Margulis formed from a Sentient using OUR memories to re-create itself into something that could CONTROL us and drive us to destroy the VERY THING WE SWORE TO PROTECT...

As far as I am aware, this topic is to discuss OP's theory so naturally, we are supposed to participate by assuming the OP is correct and pick a side.

Whether the OP is actually correct or not, that is more of a side discussion because I don't think that is the topic.

Anyway, as much as lore is concerned, there will always be changes. I mean in the past we could just as easily prove lorewise that warframes are individuals and not operators but over time, the lore does evolve towards it. As such, while we can discuss facts about the lore now, there is no 100% confirmation that the lore in future will not be updated to present a different side.

As such, I do not think there is an intense need to present any facts or arguments to debunk OP's theory because it is just a theory.

[Legoguy]

I'm joining the side that has Excalibur Umbra

[Zendadaist]

I'm still of the opinion that what we saw isn't quite what it seems. I'm wondering if it's a trick by Hunhow in the first place.

If Ballas, an Orokin, has the power to shut down a Sentient with a wave of his hand as it appeared in Apostasy Prologue - then how in the name of the Origin System did the Sentient threat grow so large that the Orokin had to wreck their own empire with rogue infestation, rogue technology and weaponised void children driving barely controlled golems? That part does not make sense to me: Ballas waves his hand and disconnects Natah like it aint no thing. I can see him having complete mastery over the Orokin side of things but the Sentient side?

I'm more inclined to believe that Sentient tech being disabled so readily is purely the province of other Sentients. Who knows what information about Ballas Hunhow was able to dig out of Suda's Datascape or contact with Ordis within it during Octavia's Anthem? It could be that what we saw was this: Hunhow piggybacks his signal on the Tenno who touched the mysterious object Ordis suddenly manufactured in order to get close enough to the Lotus. Fake being Ballas enough to fool the Margulis that Natah rebuilt (from her Oro after the execution?), at least for a while in order to extract the information he wants. Deal with Natah herself and the now suddenly leaderless space kids later using what he's learned from neo-Margulis.

[SaferSaviour]

35 minutes ago, Zendadaist said:

If Ballas, an Orokin, has the power to shut down a Sentient with a wave of his hand as it appeared in Apostasy Prologue - then how in the name of the Origin System did the Sentient threat grow so large that the Orokin had to wreck their own empire with rogue infestation, rogue technology and weaponised void children driving barely controlled golems? That part does not make sense to me: Ballas waves his hand and disconnects Natah like it aint no thing. I can see him having complete mastery over the Orokin side of things but the Sentient side?

Ballas is more than just 'an Orokin'. He's had a hand in creating the Sentients and the Warframes. He's always had his own agenda, and he's always played dangerous politics.

I'd probably side with him, owing to how well he plays the game.

[SaferSaviour]

Just now, SaferSaviour said:

Ballas is more than just 'an Orokin'. He's had a hand in creating the Sentients and the Warframes. He's always had his own agenda, and he's always played dangerous politics. He's also gone through some changes (he was once noted for his glorious symmetry and, erm, that arm), that suggest something even more sinister at play.

I'd probably side with him, owing to how well he plays the game.

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, Zendadaist said:

I'm still of the opinion that what we saw isn't quite what it seems. I'm wondering if it's a trick by Hunhow in the first place.

If Ballas, an Orokin, has the power to shut down a Sentient with a wave of his hand as it appeared in Apostasy Prologue - then how in the name of the Origin System did the Sentient threat grow so large that the Orokin had to wreck their own empire with rogue infestation, rogue technology and weaponised void children driving barely controlled golems? That part does not make sense to me: Ballas waves his hand and disconnects Natah like it aint no thing. I can see him having complete mastery over the Orokin side of things but the Sentient side?

I'm more inclined to believe that Sentient tech being disabled so readily is purely the province of other Sentients. Who knows what information about Ballas Hunhow was able to dig out of Suda's Datascape or contact with Ordis within it during Octavia's Anthem? It could be that what we saw was this: Hunhow piggybacks his signal on the Tenno who touched the mysterious object Ordis suddenly manufactured in order to get close enough to the Lotus. Fake being Ballas enough to fool the Margulis that Natah rebuilt (from her Oro after the execution?), at least for a while in order to extract the information he wants. Deal with Natah herself and the now suddenly leaderless space kids later using what he's learned from neo-Margulis.

Remember, Void energy is poisonous to Sentients.

Ballas reaching forth with his corrupt arm might be a tell...

Margulis' body might have acted as "Void anti-biotics" for Natah (much like the antidote we must administer to Kubrows/Kavats), but might also be the very thing Ballas' exploits to separate the two.

Consider this:

Without Margulis to offer protection from the Tenno's Void nature, Natah is now dying BECAUSE of her adopted children, hence the moon collapsing around Excal Umbra in the "Sacrifice" trailer.

 

[SilentMobius]

DE splitting the playerbase in a persistent manner so they need to provide two entry points for all subsequent content?

Not likely, they have enough trouble with a simple little thing like differing intact relays.

Anything that harms their content production speed is very very unlikely to happen.

 

[Rixuel]

As a Tenno, let's create a third choice: All join the Tenno Nation! lol just kidding.

I bet it's not possible to create a 3rd choice (because if you can it would be silly).

For the Tenno, It's a dilemma to chose. Joining one of them is a risk. Picking Ballas and you risk getting backstabbed. Picking Hunhow could be the less worse, but we will never know Hunhow's true intention. So in the end, joining one of these sides will give you different risks and consequences.

I would take a shot and join Hunhow. Somehow, I have the feeling Ballas is a manipulative freak.

[royblazin]

On 1/4/2018 at 8:06 PM, Rixuel said:

As a Tenno, let's create a third choice: All join the Tenno Nation! lol just kidding.

I bet it's not possible to create a 3rd choice (because if you can it would be silly).

For the Tenno, It's a dilemma to chose. Joining one of them is a risk. Picking Ballas and you risk getting backstabbed. Picking Hunhow could be the less worse, but we will never know Hunhow's true intention. So in the end, joining one of these sides will give you different risks and consequences.

I would take a shot and join Hunhow. Somehow, I have the feeling Ballas is a manipulative freak.

Well, both of em seem like they'd backstab you, right? Once the conflict ends either once you chose would most likely betray you since they aren't up to any good. O 3O

[Rixuel]

17 minutes ago, royblazin said:

Well, both of em seem like they'd backstab you, right? Once the conflict ends either once you chose would most likely betray you since they aren't up to any good. O 3O

Siding with the less smarter backstabber is less worse than with a mastermind backstabber (Ballas) o.o

[TinySuperSalad]

I choose my side. Bring any quest to me and I will do it. Show me who to kill and I will do it.

History is written by the winners. But for Warframe, it's written by DE. They decide who wins in the end.

[royblazin]

And since Margulis and Natah always act in the best interest of the Tenno, I think they’d both defect in the end and turn against both Ballas and Hunhow. We’d have two space moms.

[SineSole]

Honesty it wasn’t even our war, I’d probably join hunhow and natah..especially since natah has been our guide for this long 

[royblazin]

On 1/6/2018 at 6:49 PM, NZ_CodeBlue said:

I choose my side. Bring any quest to me and I will do it. Show me who to kill and I will do it.

History is written by the winners. But for Warframe, it's written by DE. They decide who wins in the end.

>:O  You are a hitman!

[FlameCat16]

On 1/4/2018 at 12:01 AM, (Xbox One)Juniormech777 said:

Don't make this complicated. As already mentioned in one of your other threads, the Operators are just referred to as "Void Demons" by Helminth. Nothing more, nothing less.

Helminth and, you know, the Orokin: "I know we are desperate, executor, but these aren't Dax soldiers... They're golems, possessed by devil minds..."

[(XBOX)Mechanomaly]

1 minute ago, FlameCat16 said:

Helminth and, you know, the Orokin: "I know we are desperate, executor, but these aren't Dax soldiers... They're golems, possessed by devil minds..."

Ballas referred to us as devil minds. No one else has.

Not everybody calls you the same exact thing, you know.

[FlameCat16]

I choose Ordis. Seriously, has anyone ever stopped to think about him? He's the ONLY one in Warframe we TRULY know, including ourselves. Ordis literally lives to serve us and feels so bad about himself when he fails us he has literally asked us to self-destruct him TWICE.

About Space Mom, though, I'd definitely let Ballas live and stay with Margulis. Ordis>Lotus, and I'm not gonna F*** up some old guy's romance for a fake second foster mom.

[FlameCat16]

On 1/4/2018 at 2:31 AM, Tarak said:

So I know people here don't agree with me on stuff but I want to put this in anyway, an account of what I've pieced together as facts and where I think, based on logical storytelling, DE is going as a result of it.

I want to start by prefacing this with the fact that we know The Sacrifice is coming soonish and that I believe that this was the prologue to an upcoming quest ('Apostasy', since this was 'The Apostasy Prologue'). I also want to mention that MOST (albeit not ALL) quests are named for the revelations they give about the past rather than the future. As such I believe the quest name of The Sacrifice is about a sacrifice that was made long ago rather than one that will be made. There is also the fact that we know that The Sacrifice will be, as per the devs, delving into the nature and origin of the Warframes. That's important. Now, this next part will likely turn people away and talking about it directly might get the post deleted or something, I don't know, but back before the War Within came out the was a quest script leaked. In that script Umbra was featured. it was brief, but it was there, as was a flashback that he triggered of Ballas talking to a Dax about sacrifice being necessary to save us. Although the script was still in flux and was heavily changed before release I believe the nature of that scene holds true. The Sacrifice refers to sacrifices made for us long ago that we'll learn about from a new, albeit potentially temporary, guide in the form of an Umbra, an original Warframe, unbound from Tenno control as opposed to the Orokin era copies and modern copies of copies we frequently use now.

All that said... We actually know that the Sentient see humanity on whole as 'Orokin'. This is shown in the fact that Hunhow called Alad V and us Orokin during The Second Dream. 'The noise you make will end now, Orokin called Alad V.' 'Natah, you trust these Orokin who chiseled weapons from our bones?'. This actually does make sense, as during the old war the Orokin Empire controlled everything in the Origin system. The Corpus, Grineer, and every civilian on every planet were under the Empire, thus were, from the perspective of the Sentient, Orokin. He will likely try to find a way to come for us while we alone and vulnerable. We will have to either find a new guide to replace the Lotus until we can find her and bring her back under our sway, or we will be approached by someone or something that has likely been watching and is driven by a desire to keep us safe from harm. since the Lotus' information network is the best way to ensure our continued dominance in the Origin system (keeping any threat from becoming too heavy to handle) helping us to find her and return her to her place is likely the best way to do that.

I vote Ordis. As I said, Ordis protects us all the time, even while we're offli- I mean, meditating: "I will keep the Orbiter hidden in the Void". To be honest, if I had a choice, I'd pick Ordis over the Lotus every day.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Hmm..It seems Ordis is the true space dad.

I too shall follow Ordis!😂

[(XBOX)Riknav]

I personally think something of this nature will happen.

 I believe Hunhow or someone from his camp, will have a way to corrupt/change our warframe to bring about umbra's. I just hope that they don't decide to make us chose between umbra's and primes.